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Archive 1Archive 2

NPOV tag

Resolved
(non-admin closure) Shaan SenguptaTalk 17:23, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

@Shaan Sengupta: Any reason for the tag based on a single sentence while the article is under construction? — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 17:05, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Only statement by Israeli side is mentioned in that sentence. That's why. If you can make it neutral then I myslef shall remove the tag. Shaan SenguptaTalk 17:07, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
@Red-tailed hawk as you say that the article is under construction. So it should be a draft. What is it doing in the mainspace? Shaan SenguptaTalk 17:10, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
What do you think the {{Under construction}} tag is for? — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 17:12, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
Do you have any reporting otherwise? I don't think anyone is contesting that Israel has sent troops into Gaza. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 17:12, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
@Red-tailed hawk I too am in no way contesting that. Its just that it should be written while giving proper mentions. I shall ask Firefangledfeathers who protected this due to arbitration enforcement. Is this worth mainspace? Or should it be constructed in Draft and then be published directly or via Submission. Shaan SenguptaTalk 17:15, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
I have no opinion. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 17:16, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
Like other {{current}} events, this is something that ought remain in mainspace. I would object to draftification on any grounds—the topic is almost certainly notable and can be made how we make articles normally. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 17:18, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
In that case, I am simply taking back my tag/edit and moving away. Won't get deep into it. Sorry for the inconvenience if any caused. Shaan SenguptaTalk 17:18, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
@Red-tailed hawk Self-revert done. You can close this. Or should I? Shaan SenguptaTalk 17:20, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
Resolved
— Red-tailed hawk (nest) 17:21, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 October 2023

Hamas Add Hamas With Palestine As A Second Belligerent. Riyadh edits25 (talk) 05:51, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

 Already done Tollens (talk) 10:31, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 October 2023

Add this right in the beginning of the article:

"After a surprise attack on 7 October 2023 by Hamas on Israeli civilian population," Vadik (talk) 16:43, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Please be careful not to synthesize different sources to arrive at a conclusion that none of them explicitly make. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 15:53, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 November 2023

30 dead Israeli soldiers 69.112.3.21 (talk) 10:20, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Melmann 13:35, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Grammar Edit

Since I can't make this edit, I suggest in the sentence right before the section called "Israeli Strategy", and right after the name "Matan Meir", a comma right after that name would be helpful.

 Done. Alaexis¿question? 21:11, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Hamas casualties according to the IDF edit request

The IDF has now claimed that at least 450 Hamas operatives have been killed in Gaza according to this article by the Times of Israel:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-details-significant-blows-its-dealt-to-hamass-northern-gaza-forces-commanders/

I think it would make sense now to add this number to the casualties info-card. Roniiixxx (talk) 16:51, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done. Alaexis¿question? 21:10, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Major general mistake

It was "Sergeant major general" who died in the tunnel explosion, not major general. Apparently this is one of the unique ranks in IDF 79.164.72.106 (talk) 15:18, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

 Fixed, diff --Orgullomoore (talk) 03:42, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Page moved

I'd initially misread reports and though the invasion had begun outright, so I initially titled this 2023 Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip. I have no objection to moving it back to that title when the invasion begins; my bold move here to 2023 Israeli ground operations in the Gaza Strip is reflective of reporting that the raids today were local in-and-out operations rather than an invasion proper. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 18:24, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. When the invasion truly takes place, it will need to be removed back to 2023 Israeli invasion of Gaza, since most sources are referencing it at "Gaza" not "the Gaza Strip". The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 01:35, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
I think "2023 Israeli incursions into Gaza" would be more accurate Personisinsterest (talk) 02:49, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
No way. Almost no sources use "incursion", while every source says "invasion". If you could find 10 WP:RS sources that do not use "invasion", but rather "incursion", then you would have a valid reason. Right now, I could provide dozens for "invasion". The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 03:13, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
True Personisinsterest (talk) 10:52, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Reactions section

Most (if not all) of the info in the Reactions is about an invasion of Gaza, which is outside the scope of the article (IMO), as it's just a hypothetical (as well as violating WP:CRYSTAL). Should we just remove it for now? David O. Johnson (talk) 08:02, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

That would seem wise to me. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 18:34, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and removed it. We can add them once there's a proper Ground invasion of Gaza article (or whatever the title turns out to be). David O. Johnson (talk) 20:49, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

"Israeli remains"

The text cited for the note [14] says: "The IDF confirmed the same day that Israeli remains were located and retrieved in the Gaza Strip." I find it a bit weird. Israeli remains? What are "Israeli remains"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.221.250.8 (talk) 01:53, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

It's referring to a body. David O. Johnson (talk) 02:08, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Sea-based incursions

Shayetet 13 conducted a sea-based operation recently:

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/defense-news/article-770471

That would be outside the current scope of the article, right? David O. Johnson (talk) 06:40, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Add brigades on Gazan side.

There are multiple brigades fighting in Gaza and during the Nova festival massacre. The Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, Nukhba, Al-Quds Brigades, Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades and National Resistance Brigades. They should be added, instead of a basic "Hamas" being the only ones on the opposite side of the IDF. PaddyMacConghaile (talk) 16:05, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

As long as it's sourced, I see no issue with adding them. David O. Johnson (talk) 03:50, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Draft help needed: Draft:Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip

I have created Draft:Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip, which needs some help with the background section. Note, the Israeli invasion has not begun, but Israel announced they scheduled the date and there is countless RS to back that statement up. Per the first point in WP:FUTURE, this draft was made only so that the background section, which is comprised partially of this article as well as other background events, can be ironed out some, so when the scheduled invasion does take place, the article can be moved into mainspace, in better condition than a sloppy stub/start article. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 00:38, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

What's the test for an "invasion"? I don't think the Israelis saying there will be one at some unspecified date is a good test. If they are km deep into Gaza, isn't that an invasion? Bibi says it's "the second stage of the war" and "The Israeli military has not publicly described the current operation as an invasion, and has released only brief footage of its advance. The ground assault in the northern part of the Gaza Strip was shrouded in secrecy and ambiguity"· Selfstudier (talk) 12:11, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
We are breaking the "war" (Israel Hamas) into pieces, Hamas attack, now ground operations (which are still accompanied by airstrikes), then "invasion", shouldn't we just be saying that Israel is attacking the Gaza Strip (ground/air/sea doesn't matter, it's an attack on Gaza). Selfstudier (talk) 12:16, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
The third stage is not "invasion" but rather seperating Gaza's reliance on Israel. The second stage is invasion. If they are saying they have entered the second stage, they are saying that invasion has begun. маsтегрнатаLк 13:49, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Merge

Suggest merging this page to Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip which seems to be the current situation, see https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/30/podcasts/the-daily/israel-invasion-gaza.html Selfstudier (talk) 16:29, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Or the other way around and change the title of this one. Selfstudier (talk) 16:30, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
I went ahead and undid the most recent move; I feel it merits more discussion. For one, do we have agreement on what the sources call it? For instance, The Times of Israel calls it a "limited but protracted incursion." [1]. David O. Johnson (talk) 17:28, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
As I asked elsewhere, what is the test for an invasion? "Limited but protracted", haha, who dreamed that up? Anyway, NYT is more independent than ToI who might well be just parroting the IsGov view. Selfstudier (talk) 17:32, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

"Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 31 § Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip until a consensus is reached. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 00:08, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Al Mayadeen unreliable

@Whatever748: With respect to this edit, Al Mayadeen is decidedly unreliable (see here). I think no source is better than citing Al Mayadeen. If we are compelled to cite Al Mayadeen, I think we should be explicit about saying "Al Mayadeen reported that," as opposed to echoing the assertion in WikiVoice. Can we find a better source for this information? We might as well cite directly to Al Qassam's Telegram for the assertion that "Al Qassam reported that on 30 October 2023 they engaged the IDF northwest of Gaza." Or the BBC's live blog, which says basically that, properly attributing the assertions to Qassam brigades and Al Quds brigades' Telegram channels and disclosing the inability to verify these reports. | Orgullomoore (talk) 14:50, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Al-Mayadeen is not the only source on the battle, although as it's hard to find info on the events, it was the most easily accessible one. Other sources includes a few already cited in the article. I can replace the Al-Mayadeen one with a more reliable source. Thanks for the heads up.
Whatever748 (talk) 15:38, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 30 October 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved per WP:SNOW ─ The Aafī (talk) 10:10, 1 November 2023 (UTC)


2023 Israeli ground offensive in the Gaza Strip → 2023 Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip – The long expected Israeli ground incursion inside Gaza Strip appears to have quietly started on 27 October. Israel moved troops in, and the presence has been expanding since. Now it's the time to decide what to call the article. I would suggest invasion as it's the most direct approach. Other suggestions are also welcome. Ecrusized (talk) 17:30, 30 October 2023 (UTC)++

Survey

  • Support The NYT thinks so and so do I, if tanks are km deep into Gaza, what else is that except invasion. Whether it is done in bite sized pieces or all at once doesn't really matter.
Selfstudier (talk) 17:34, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The Salah al-Din: Improper English?

It says "IDF cuts off the the Salah al-Din and briefly withdraws".

I assume this was meant to be "Salah al-Din Road"? I'm guessing the person that wrote this isn't a native English speaker, but maybe that's because it's the correct way to name a road in some Arabic dialects? So Portobello Rd would become "The Portobello"? I've seen "The" prefix "Salah Al-Din Road" before. Checkitrealgood (talk) 10:02, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

I fixed it in the infobox but not in the direct quote sourced to Al Jazeera. Arabic would be شارع صلاح الدين, so no definite article - it's formed by iḍāfah. | Orgullomoore (talk) 17:26, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Current lede revision

The lede currently reads:

"On the evening of 27 October 2023, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) launched a large scale ground incursion inside the Gaza Strip with the stated intent to attack Hamas militants and locate and rescue Israeli hostages."

Now that the article is named "2023 Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip", I think it would make sense to reword the lede to match.

Any suggestions? David O. Johnson (talk) 01:21, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

As-Siafa? Failed verification?

Upon reading this page I was encouraged to see a citation appearing at the end of a sentence mentioning the capture of the town of As-Siafa by Israeli soldiers and a subsequent flag-raising therein. But after inspecting the Jerusalem Post article I was overcome with great disappointment not having encountered a mention of that town in the text of the article.

Hopeful that a Hebrew-language caption superimposed over an image in the article must be the source of the information regarding the name of the town, I used machine translation, but unless I've made a mistake, the name of the town where the flag is raised doesn't appear to have been named here either.

I will not rule out the possibility that the Hebrew dialogue of a video in a tweet embedded in the article confirms the claim we're making here on Wikipedia regarding As-Siafa, but curiously that placename was nowhere to be found in a translation provided by the Jerusalem Post. I'm still holding out hope that perhaps it was just a partial transcription.

@WeatherWriter, since you appear to be responsible for this edit, I'm calling on you to justify why "As-Siafa" appears in this sentence. Did the soldiers in the video utter this name? Have I typed the wrong Hebrew letters into the translators? Has the page been altered since it was first published, and if so, does an archive exist? If not, is the appearance of "As-Siafa" here some sort of mistake?

My very best wishes

SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 00:29, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

As-Siafa is a small agricultural area with about 250 farmers and Bedouins, from what little snippets of information I was able to find on the web when looking for info to turn the red link As-Siafa blue. I did not find anything worth citing, really. There were some UN maps talking about water quality, a no-go zone at some point that displaced some residents, some prized strawberries, a mention of visiting Bedouins in an NGO volunteer's memoire, and so on. There was video of a flag being raised at the Tanani Chalet, which is past As-Siafa; see here, here, and here. I suspect that's where this info comes from. But in any case, my recent edit avoids the necessity of sourcing the statement that As-Siafa was "captured," when it is more accurate to say that a few strawberry fields were marched over to get to some beachside resorts to raise a flag at a lodge past As-Siafa (I hope).--| Orgullomoore (talk) 04:38, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 November 2023

Remove the 260 wounded soldiers from the count, the source clearly states this count started since October 7th and does not actually relate to the individual invasion of Gaza. Only the deaths are accurate. Cr33d1242 (talk) 21:24, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Inaccurate number of wounded

Please change the wounded count to unknown as the source used to cite this was simply the number of operations unit 669 has performed since October 7th and not the actual number of wounded in the invasion of Gaza. It does not make sense to put this count here. Cr33d1242 (talk) 21:34, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

IDF accounced the death of 2 more soldiers killed in gaza

update the casualties?


source:

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/2237865/death-doll-rises-idf-announces-death-of-soldier-yaacov-ozeri-hyd-killed-in-gaza.html Durranistan (talk) 15:53, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-soldier-died-in-gaza-today-confirms-death-of-roni-eshel-missing-since-oct-7/
two more IDF soldiers kia Elia Tamburin (talk) 22:19, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1699509328-eliahou-benjamin-elmakayes-29-is-the-34rd-idf-soldier-killed-since-start-of-ground-operation
There is also this soldier marked among today's fallen Elia Tamburin (talk) 22:33, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
https://www.inn.co.il/flashes/959832
A sergeant died as a result of his wounds, the site says he is the 38th KIA in Gaza. Elia Tamburin (talk) 14:35, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Innacurate casualties

Can someone change the number of military vehicles that got destroyed cause hamas just announced that they destroyed 136 military vehicles (and there’s vids of them so I don’t see it as a misinformation) Sajjjjr (talk) 17:17, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

There are videos of 136 destroyed military vehicles? Hamas is, for obvious reasons, not considered a reliable source. | Orgullomoore (talk) 18:38, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
Yes there are many videos and also u can mention that its hamas claim since Israel still didn’t reply or falsify that claim Sajjjjr (talk) 20:08, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
And the IDF is reliable? the IDF is also notoriously deceptive and prone to lying, so might as well put both claims, with a note of which side is claiming which numbers. readers can figure out for themselves which numbers they believe. 100.15.197.231 (talk) 02:45, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
I think the Israeli news outlets reporting on IDF casualties after the families have been notified and specifically naming the soldiers are reliable. As far as I know, Hamas does not give counts of their killed mujahideen. The 136 number is directly out of Abu Obaida's mouth. I am against amplifying Abu Obaida's voice on Wikipedia. | Orgullomoore (talk) 03:47, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
Why against I don’t think i can remember that it was proves that he lied u like idf that lied many times and telling families or not isnt a proof Sajjjjr (talk) 16:21, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
Call me crazy, but to me, to state the suggestion that we should consider Hamas's Telegram a reliable source is to refute it. You are of course free to argue for its reliability here. | Orgullomoore (talk) 20:01, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
Hamas being reliable or not doesn't matter IF we point out that it is Hamas' claim. Genabab (talk) 19:16, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
The IDF has to get permission from the family of they want to publish the death of a soldier publicly, there Is something called privacy, moreover every time they announce the death of a soldier they say, "the publication of the death of...has been permitted" Elia Tamburin (talk) 22:11, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
136 vehicles is the estimate since October 7, not since the invasion of Gaza The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 02:26, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
Alr then put it in 2023 Israel–Hamas war Sajjjjr (talk) 16:19, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Inclusion of al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades as a belligerent

Greetings all, the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades are a significant belligerent in the 2023 Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip, which would warrant their inclusion in the infobox.

Please see the below quotes from the Institute for the Study of War's Iran Updates, indicating that this group has engaged Israeli forces on multiple fronts inside the Gaza Strip since the invasion:

October 31st
The al Qassem Brigades, Saraya al Quds Brigades, and al Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade attacked IDF forces in the central Gaza Strip.

November 5th
Both the al Quds Brigades—the militant wing of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)—and the Al Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade said they targeted Israeli vehicles in northwestern Gaza on November 5.
The Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades also mortared Israeli vehicles entering the al Samouni area near Zaytoun.
Al Qassem Brigades and the al Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades mortared advancing Israeli forces east of Juhor ad Dik, which is close to where Israeli forces entered the central Gaza Strip at the beginning of the ground operation.

November 9th
The al Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades—the self-declared militant wing of Fatah—similarly claimed to fire mortars at Israeli forces in the northwestern Gaza Strip.

November 11th
The al Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades—the self-claimed militant wing of Fatah—mortared IDF soldiers in al Nasr neighborhood on November 11.
SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 04:00, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

More inaccuracies

The article describes a major general dying on November 11th. This is a lie, the casualty was a Major

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-insists-no-siege-on-gazas-shifa-hospital-as-troops-advance-5-soldiers-killed/amp/ Wordbearer88 (talk) 10:16, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Map

Word current should be replaced with a date, map is always updated a day behind. Wikimedia description shows. 93.143.94.171 (talk) 20:58, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Fatalities to update

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/11/hamas-antitank-weapons-gaza-israel/ -The Washington Post: "Since the start of the ground invasion, 41 IDF soldiers have bene killed in Gaza, the Israeli military said. Elia Tamburin (talk) 17:16, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done. Diff. Thank you for pointing this out. | Orgullomoore (talk) 18:37, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-11-11-2023-d4d272416107c02e63dabd9548395026
The number of IDF casualties increased again.
-AP News: "46 Israeli soldiers have been killed in Gaza since the ground offensive began." Btw the map needs to be update Elia Tamburin (talk) 22:40, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 Done. Diff. | Orgullomoore (talk) 22:46, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
https://bnn.network/world/israel/psychological-warfare-intensifies-in-gaza-hamas-releases-video-of-abducted-soldier/
2 more IDF soldiers have been killed yesterday during the battle of Gaza. Elia Tamburin (talk) 11:56, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Israel took control of Northern Gaza/Hamas lost control

AstroSaturn (talk) 22:36, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

The operative detail in this story is "says Israeli defense minister". Iskandar323 (talk) 06:02, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
It wasn't debunked by any other sources AstroSaturn (talk) 14:25, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Hamas uses hospitals

https://13tv.co.il/item/news/politics/security/day-39-903802755/?pid=62&cid=902992371 2.55.162.244 (talk) 19:37, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Please file an WP:EDITREQUEST (see WP:ARBECR) (include independent reliable source(s)). Thank you. Selfstudier (talk) 19:45, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
Here's an English version of that story from The Guardian. Published about 10 minutes ago. “We have information that confirms that Hamas is using that particular hospital for a command and control node”, the White House’s national security spokesperson, John Kirby, told reporters aboard Air Force One: They have stored weapons there and they’re prepared to respond to an Israeli military operation against that facility. He added: That is a war crime. --Orgullomoore (talk) 20:25, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Hamas casualties according to the IDF update - edit request

Israel has now made a new claim about enemy casualties in Gaza. The IDF claims that at least 1000 militants were killed since the beginning of the ground invasion according to the Times of Israel:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-division-has-completed-capture-of-al-shati-camp-in-gaza/

The casualties info card need to be updated. Roniiixxx (talk) 16:49, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

I believe it is talking more specifically about the clashes in al-shati camp meaning the total number of militants killed would be higher. It's also worth noting that its unusual how the map for this wikipedia page doesn't show al-shati camp under israeli control Redsky1200 (talk) 01:06, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
"“The forces of the division killed over 1,000 terrorists from the beginning of the ground maneuver and reduced by about 80 percent the amount of rocket fire towards Israel from the north of the Gaza Strip,” Cohen adds."
To me this sounds like he is talking about the ground invasion in general. But even if it’s true that he is only referring to the al-Shati camp it would still be safe to change the casualties figure to "1000+ killed". Roniiixxx (talk) 07:05, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
It doesn't seem like a very realistico figure to me. Considering the fact that Israel has never provider even video evidence or any names of terrorista killed in gaza. They only speculated about the death of some Hamas leaders but otherwise nothing. Plus so far the few things that have only filmed are civilians killed. If Hamas had not provided video evidence of the vehicles they destroyed or damaged no one would have believed thei claim of a hundred vehicles destroyed or damaged. Elia Tamburin (talk) 11:52, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
How realistic these figures are doesn’t matter; they are made by one of the main fighting forces who are involved in this war. Aside from that there is plenty of footage of IDF air strikes targeting militants. As long as it states "per Israel" I think there is nothing wrong with adding that claimed figure. Roniiixxx (talk) 12:05, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
however, the figure remains exaggerated. The Israeli sources don't have much trouble lying: they published photos of a calendar claiming that they were the names of the terrorists who signed their presence in the building, but instead they were just days of the week; they also showed what appeared to be a tunnel when in fact it was just an elevator. Their videos (few) are not clear, they come from thermal cameras and they bomb everything that moves, 95% of the videos they publish are of civilians being massacred. In support of this thesis, an Israeli soldier Anshel Pfeffer told the Haaretz newspaper "we barely see the terrorists. They're underground". The number that your source claims is a totally unfounded figure and unfortunately in these cases it is better to wait for more evidence and leave the figure 460 which in my opinion is also exaggerated but more realistic. Elia Tamburin (talk) 15:14, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
And yet there can also be arguments made that the actual figure might be even higher. But again, this shouldn’t matter because the point is to provide a figure that is claimed by one of the sides participating in this war. By specifying the source of this claim ("per Israel") I don’t think it is controversial to add this number. Roniiixxx (talk) 07:54, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Source on Palestinian civilian casualties?

There is no source currently listed. 2A02:8086:D03:F880:8107:CEE5:60B8:8BA4 (talk) 19:03, 18 November 2023 (UTC)


Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 November 2023

Correction of Inaccurate Translation

Change:

On 11 November four IDF officers including a Major General were killed and other four were wounded after a explosion inside a tunnel near Beit Hanoun. All casualties were from the 697th battalion of the 551st Reserve Brigade Arrows of Fire.

to

On 11 November four IDF officers, including a Major, were killed and other four were wounded after a explosion inside a tunnel near Beit Hanoun. All casualties were from the 697th battalion of the 551st Reserve Brigade Arrows of Fire.

Reason for change:

The text indicating a "major general" is a mistranslation created by auto-translate. The rank listed in the source that's being mistranslated is רָסָ"ם. the shortening for רַב־סַמָּל מתקדם, which is the equivalent of Master Sgt. The rank for Major General is "תַּת־אַלּוּף", or "תָאָ"ל", which aren't found in the source article.

Source: You can compare the article text under Israel Defense Forces ranks in EN or with shortenings in Hebrew, IDF Ranks (Hebrew) OJDrucker (talk) 07:05, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Follow up edit: Found the article in English here: https://www.ynetnews.com/article/rkfkwbaq6, which does not mention a major general. We should also switch from the HE article to the EN article for citing. OJDrucker (talk) 07:12, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 Already done The section has been fixed and we no longer say "major general". Elli (talk | contribs) 22:07, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Fatalities to update

-The Times of Israel: "The Israel defense forces announce that 2 soldiers were killed fighting in Gaza Strip on Wednesday, bringing the death toll from the ground offensive against hamas to 50." Elia Tamburin (talk) 11:51, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

apparently it is a number that has already been exceeded Elia Tamburin (talk) 11:56, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-announces-death-of-officer-in-gaza-fighting-toll-of-ground-op-rises-to-51/ Roniiixxx (talk) 13:05, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1700390191-idf-announces-deaths-of-yakir-biton-rani-tahan-and-chen-yahalom
"IDF announces 3 more fallen soldiers: Their deaths bring the total number of fallen Israeli soldiers since the start of the ground operation to 68." (means those killed in the Gaza Strip) Elia Tamburin (talk) 12:01, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
Also Al-Qassam's claims need to be updated. 335 Vehicles have been completely or partially destroyed since the beginning of the ground invasion, 405 to 425 since October 7th
https://en.mehrnews.com/news/208738/335-Israeli-military-vehicles-destroyed-in-48-days-Qassam A.H.T Videomapping (talk) 16:16, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 November 2023

On November 14th, 2023, Al Jazerra confirmed that Israeli forced had surrounded the Al-Shaifa Hospital. Vsquared2025 (talk) 00:40, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Shadow311 (talk) 01:42, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Need to organize units better.

Infobox is a bit misleading. It show units like so:

  • 162nd Armored Division
  • 252nd Division
  • 401st Brigade
  • Golani Brigade
  • Nahal Brigade
  • Paratroopers Brigade
  • Israel 7th Armored Brigade
  • 551st (Res) Paratroopers Brigade
  • Israeli Air Force
  • Shayetet 13

Giving the impression that there are more IDF soldiers in the ground than actually are. It should look more like this

  • 36th Division
    • 1st "Golani" Brigade
    • 7th Armored Brigade
  • 162nd Armored Division
    • 401st Brigade
    • 933rd "Naha" Brigade
  • 98th (Res) Division
    • 35th Paratroopers Brigade
    • 551st (Res) Paratroopers Brigade
  • 252nd (Res) Division
  • Israeli Air Force
    • Shaldag Unit
  • Israel Navy
    • Shayetet 13

Etaketake (talk) 12:29, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Agree entirely. It is a shame that someone removed all of the listed brigades - except for the Paratroopers - and left a bland statement of Southern Command which tells us nothing. Times of Israel is now reporting that four Israeli divisions are fighting in Gaza.
Of course, it would be wrong to have the article actually help the readers understand what is going on Bluenose Gunner (talk) 18:44, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Explaining changes I've made to the infobox

  • The total number of units of the IDF is irrelevant to the Gaza Strip since IDF troops are also stationed in the North and in the West Bank. This number also includes all non-combat Homefront units, it is just a combination of all active military personnel and reserves. Also, the number of the Hamas fighters may not be updated. In the first days of the war, over two thousand Gazans entered Israel, most of whom were killed. The number of Gazans killed according to Hamas is over 8,000, and it is quite likely many of these are active members of Hamas. I removed the number of troops involved, since we simply don't know. This is misinformation. This information is definitely relevant to the background sections in this or other articles.
  • I removed Yoel Strick from the list of commanders. He is not an active IDF general, just an advisor to Gallant. Also, I removed Kobi Shabtai. He is the chief of police, and therefore isn't really involved in the ground offensive. Removed Abu Obaida and Abu Hamza, as they are just a spokespersons.
  • I have removed Givati, as Givat are part of the 162nd division already. Added the IAF.

Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:40, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

@Bolter21, Abu Jamal and Abu Khaled would also appear to be spokesmen rather than heads of military. Perhaps you might also consider removing them from the infobox. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 03:21, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
listing the brigades reported as fighting in Gaza would help readers understand what is going on and the Israeli level of effort - which now four divisions.
Of course, we do not want to keep in details that provide such knowledge. Bluenose Gunner (talk) 18:47, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Juhor Ad Dik ambush has no proof or reliable sources

The claim that Hamas killed 60 Israeli soldiers is completely fake. There is no record of this incident outside of what Hamas says. The only source given here is an Iranian government newspaper, that is not considered a reliable source. Also, not even Hamas claimed that they killed 60 soldiers, they actually only claimed they "Targeted a gathering of 60 soldiers"

The ultimate editorxyzyazz (talk) 08:37, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

The claim that Israel killed "5,000 Hamas members" is a lie. Israel is simply slaughtering civilians indiscriminately and is claiming that all men they murder are "Hamas".
I don't see you complaining about that Israeli claim on this page, though. 2607:FEA8:A4E5:6A00:B157:A2A2:CE47:3D32 (talk) 01:43, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
That wasn't there when I wrote this update. You are using whataboutism. Claiming that Israel is indescriminately murdering civilians is both clearly biased and objectively untrue The ultimate editorxyzyazz (talk) 05:44, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
It's not "whataboutism" when it's an accurate assessment, as we can clearly see from your response to me here.
Israel is clearly indiscriminately targeting civilians in Gaza, which has resulted in the murder and maiming of tens of thousands. Israel's claim that all the men that they've indiscriminately killed "are Hamas militants" is just one example of this, but why recognize the facts when you have to keep pretending that Israel isn't doing what they're clearly doing? 2607:FEA8:A4E5:6A00:69A0:8AD4:C439:2F39 (talk) 08:20, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
All I'm saying is that there is no good source for the 60 dead figure. If you want to add a better source be my guest, but it is very clear you are pursuing a certain agenda here. The ultimate editorxyzyazz (talk) 08:28, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
It gets even better when we consider the fact that Israel is deliberately targeting the Gazan population in general, as they believe "everyone in Gaza is guilty". So "indiscriminate slaughter" is really painting Israel's conduct in a good light compared to what they're actually doing per their own admissions. 2607:FEA8:A4E5:6A00:69A0:8AD4:C439:2F39 (talk) 08:22, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
This is not a forum to discuss the topic, it is for discussions regarding improvements to the article. If you have nothing to contribute to the other editor's topic then you don't need to contribute. XeCyranium (talk) 00:09, 9 December 2023 (UTC)


"5000 Hamas killed"

Someone should edit this to make it clear that this is based on what the IDF says and no one else, as well as the fact that the IDF is pretending that any men in Gaza they kill "are Hamas", regardless of what the reality is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:A4E5:6A00:B157:A2A2:CE47:3D32 (talk) 01:45, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Among other things, it is a clearly exaggerated number, if 16,248 people were killed in Gaza, of which 7,112 children, 4,885 women, 678 elderly people, 286 health personnel and 102 members of the United Nations, adding them up makes 13,063, the remainder are young males that are 3185. So 5000 is an exaggerated number that doesn't even make sense. Elia Tamburin (talk) 10:52, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
That's a good point. Not even necessarily "young men" either, as opposed to men ages 18-60.
Either way, what the IDF claims comes across as a particularly obtuse distortion if not a shameless lie. 2607:FEA8:A4E5:6A00:69A0:8AD4:C439:2F39 (talk) 11:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
What is your NPOV source for the number - and the breakdown by age and gender - of people in Gaza who have been killed? Bluenose Gunner (talk) 14:18, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
Again, what is the NPOV source for the Gazan casualties? Gaza health ministry, which is controlled by Hamas, is not NPOV. Bluenose Gunner (talk) 02:31, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
Bluenose Gunner, Gaza MoH figures are generally considered reliable, also by Israel. See the lengthy discussion at Talk:2023 Israel–Hamas war#Hamas exaggeration in the lead. — kashmīrī TALK 12:47, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
It's already described as "Israeli claim" in the article. Please note that this is WP:NOTFORUM. Alaexis¿question? 20:15, 8 December 2023 (UTC)


Jaffa Great Mosque destroyed

Seems like this should be mentioned somewhere, couldn't find any article or mention of it (the mosque or it's destruction). Jaffa Great Mosque after an airstrike in Deir al-Balah, central Gaza, destroyed presumably 12/8... https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-rcna128682/rcrd27669?canonicalCard=true Fanccr (talk) 05:15, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

If mean Great Mosque of Gaza, it's in the main article. Jaffa mosque is in Tel Aviv? Selfstudier (talk) 15:44, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
No, it's a mosque in Deir al-Balah, not in Gaza city and surely not in Jaffa. Possibly could be mentioned in the article about the city. Alaexis¿question? 22:11, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 December 2023

It is not only Israel only against Hamas and co. involved in this war, please consider putting the truth (France, America, U.K., Denmark, Norway, The Whole Arab Emirates Leagues. Evidence has shown FRENCH & AMERICAN troops inside Gaza. 2C0F:FC89:112:9247:F44A:57FF:FEAF:6F8D (talk) 05:44, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 07:22, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Israeli and Palestinian Casualties

the 13 dead figure was just from yesterday, and now that's inaccurate because Hamas just now launched a stealth operation which killed 3 near Erez, bringing today's total to at least 9 IDF killed. that and the fact the death toll stated from the Israeli Public Broadcasting Channel shot from 1418 in October 27th to 1538 on October 30th implies that much more damage was inflicted, Gallant himself said the IDF sustained "heavy losses".

As for vehicles Al-Qassam have stated they have destroyed at least 30 armoured vehicles including 12 Merkava tanks and a Panther armoured personnel carrier as well as providing video evidence.

For Hamas, the IDF claim they've killed 300 Hamas militants however Hebrew news channels puts that number closer to 40, The Jabalia Massacre killed 2 Hamas operatives there so 40-50 would be an accurate number for the info box.

Preliminary Sources: https://israelpalestine.liveuamap.com/en/2023/1-november-alqassam-brigades-we-surprised-an-israeli-infantry https://israelpalestine.liveuamap.com/en/2023/1-november-published-9-israeli-army-soldiers-were-killed

I will provide more sources once I get the time in about 6-7 hours. A.H.T Videomapping (talk) 13:36, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

I don't think that Liveuamap is a reliable source, let's wait for the more established media to publish the figures. Alaexis¿question? 08:53, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
It's basically a Tweet aggregator and geolocator. It can provide useful hints, but not a reliable source in itself. | Orgullomoore (talk) 18:28, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
A better approach would be that when Hamas release their figures we also add a “Per Hamas” category in both death tolls so no bias can be apparent A.H.T Videomapping (talk) 14:12, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

How about we update the casualty figures?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-december-21-2023/ Dec. 21: IDF says 2,000 Hamas gunmen killed this month, 8,000 since war outbreak — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.32.242.95 (talk) 06:36, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Kid

You can add: https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/hkqvj1xvt 2A00:A041:1CE0:0:C093:8565:C6AA:F4E8 (talk) 13:14, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Added it to the war crimes article. Alaexis¿question? 20:23, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Destroyed Merkavas/circumventing Trophy systems

Multiple claims about destroyed Merkavas and "overwhelmed" Trophy systems, but no evidence provided. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Murphyfun (talk • contribs) 09:19, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Haifa School airstrike into 2023 Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip

Not sufficiently notable for a stand alone article. This is a fairly routine, albeit tragic event in a major war. Ad Orientem (talk) 18:28, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

@Ad Orientem: At least in principle, surely School airstrikes in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war might be a more or at least equally immediate target? Iskandar323 (talk) 20:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
That might work. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:51, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Oppose, an independently notable tragic event. Just as Kunduz hospital airstrike has a separate article from War in Afghanistan (2001–2021). — kashmīrī TALK 01:41, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Oppose, As User:Kashmiri mentioned, it's an independently notable tragic event.--Amr F.Nagy (talk) 20:54, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Where should these casualty claims go?

https://www.ynet.co.il/health/article/yokra13707397

To quote the relevant part:

"Every day, the Rehabilitation Department receives about 60 new wounded, and the tsunami of trauma is yet to come. Limor Luria, head of the Defense Ministry's rehabilitation division, says that hospitals are rushing to release wounded people in order to absorb new ones: "Who will help them shower or move around the house?" "

"The cumulative numbers since October 7 are astronomical: more than 2,000 soldiers, police officers and other members of the security forces have been officially recognized as disabled IDF soldiers hired by the Ministry of Defense."

YNET seems to be a rs, as per here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_65

so where should it be put? Maybe in the infobo? Genabab (talk) 00:45, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Either infobox or the casualties sections seems good The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 04:07, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Hamas claim of Israeli casualties

I have updated the Hamas claim regarding Israeli casualties to avoid leaving it incomplete. However, the figure is significantly higher than the Israeli estimate and probably not reliable enough for inclusion. Ecrusized (talk) 11:22, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps leave it under the “hamas claim”, as long as it’s by official hamas sources or estimate The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 15:13, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
Why aren’t we updating the Israeli claims about dead Hamas fighters ? The IDF claims that almost 8000 Hamas militants have been killed inside Gaza. Shouldn’t this be added under "Per Israel" ? Roniiixxx (talk) 16:26, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
The issue is that this seems to be the death toll since October 7, which includes 2 weeks before the ground invasion The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 05:17, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
It's not really a question of reliability, unless you're saying 'The idea that Hamas claims this many people died is unreliable'. As long as it states 'Per Hamas' it's clear that it isn't saying 'this is the actual death toll'.
Besides, if the sources are anything to go by, it is correct that that is what Hamas claims, so it should be appropriate. Genabab (talk) 01:29, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Updated ground incursion injuries

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-26/ty-article-live/israel-kills-senior-revolutionary-guards-office-irans-foreign-minister-count-down/0000018c-a40c-d408-a99f-ed5e45450000?liveBlogItemId=295280030#295280030 874, updated daily 2605:B100:D4D:83E9:0:12:7BBB:9601 (talk) 14:17, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Units involved on the Israeli side

I think it would me more useful to list the divisions operating in gaza and not individual brigades, as the article currently lists a few random brigades, and including all the brigades would be too long (there around 20 inside of gaza). 2A13:54C2:F000:FD2D:8BFD:4518:DC17:CAC7 (talk) 14:46, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Which divisions to add and brigades to remove do you suggest as an improvement? The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 15:06, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
98th division
252nd division
36th division
162nd division
Israeli air force
Israeli navy
All other units listed should be deleted in my opinion as they are all part of the divisions above 2A13:54C2:F000:FD2D:8BFD:4518:DC17:CAC7 (talk) 11:31, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Add "Jaysh al-Ummah" in list of Palestinians factions

Al-Qaeda linked Jaysh al-Ummah (Gaza) has officially confirmed that it is fighting IDF in Gaza. Kindly add it in list of Palestinians factions in infobox. Reference is below:

https://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2023/12/al-qaeda-aligned-jaysh-al-ummah-says-it-is-fighting-israeli-troops-in-gaza.php--Sam6897 (talk) 15:23, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

added Durranistan (talk) 04:08, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
Thanks.
Kindly also add it in 2023 Israel–Hamas war and 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel. Sam6897 (talk) 18:46, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Central Gaza/Bureij battle

Should a new page be created for the ongoing Israeli offensive into Central Gaza and the ongoing battle in Bureij? There are multiple sources although none of them refer to it as a "Battle".

-UtoD 17:36, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

They’d go well in the “resumption of hostilities” section in this page The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 07:17, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

New update on ground incursion injuries

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-deaths-of-29-of-170-soldiers-in-gaza-op-were-so-called-friendly-fire-accidents/

974 injured as of sunday 2605:B100:D4D:83E9:0:12:7BBB:9601 (talk) 15:06, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

937 according to article, not 974 204.237.49.61 (talk) 15:14, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
User:Mikeblas related to this discussion I suppose. What is the contradiction? The linked part says casualties on 11 December were 559, whereas the new figure in the info-space is 937 for 1 January.
Maybe I'm just being dumb, but I'm not sure what the contradiction here is? Could you please clarify?
I did notice there is a discrepancy between 170 deaths on that part and 174 on the info, is that what it is in reference to? Genabab (talk) 18:22, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
Yep. Someone updated one of the casualty figures (with a new reference) in one place in the article, but not in other places where the reference was/is used, and where the figures appear again. It's common for people to update data only in infoboxes and not the prose, and that's what happened here. I don't know how these casualty counts are typically handled--seems like there's some wording which might count civilians differently than military, but maybe military-caused civilan deaths are what's being shown? The article isn't particularly clear about it. So I fixed the referencing error and left the tag. -- Mikeblas (talk) 21:20, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Fatah

Does Fatah actually support Hamas? They had a war in Gaza in 2006 and never really showed support or solidarity towards Hamas. Scapone100998 (talk) 13:00, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Fatah’s armed wing, the al aqsa martyr’s brigades has been confirmed to fight in Gaza with the qassam brigades, the armed wing of Hamas. Additionally in images posted by Israeli army of seized arms in Gaza shows the fatah and hamas flag, suggesting the two organisations do operate alongside each other in this invasion The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 14:24, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Why No pictures/clips of Palestinian factions?

Why there is no pictures/clips in this article from Al-Qassam brigade/Al-Quds brigades & other Palestinian military factions in the article??

There are picture/clips of combat operations from IDF forces but not from Palestinian factions. I suggest that we add them from both sides.--Sam6897 (talk) 11:35, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Would it be possible without violating copyright? The qassam footage is very interesting and has unusual combat strategies worth acknowledging The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 15:12, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Misconduct?

Isn't the "Misconduct" section a bit euphemistic, considering it's about dismembering bodies and such? Maybe switch it to "War Crimes" or something more fitting. 2601:85:C100:46C0:7CDD:FCB6:32C1:1168 (talk) 23:56, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Yup. The 2023 Israel–Hamas war refers it as war crimes. I agree it's euphemistic and I think it's a biased way to avoid the "alleged" war crimes, which are relevant because Israel is going to court in the UN for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:EmilePersaud 19:47, 7 January 2024 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by EmilePersaud (talk • contribs)
Changed it. Added main as War crimes in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 22:32, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
Decided to go with "Charges of war crimes" instead. It should not be called a war crime in Wikipedia's voice, until some court says so. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 22:39, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Updated israel injuries

1042 as of yesterday https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bynmolq00p 2605:B100:D4D:83E9:0:12:7BBB:9601 (talk) 11:12, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Edit required for the notice time prior to invasion

According to the Israeli officials at the ICJ hearings, three weeks notice was given to Gazans to move to the safe territory. The last notice of 24 hours was also given approximately three days prior to the actual invasion. 175.39.194.67 (talk) 20:37, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Primary Source for Israel casualties

For the Per Israel section of their causalities, I think its good to cite their own IDF Hebrew website(link below). Also can be used for the broader article o Israel-Hamas war (2023-) https://www.idf.il/160590 — Preceding unsigned comment added by ElementalKnight987654321 (talk • contribs) 20:48, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Better term than "clearing operation"?

The infobox labels the blue area in the figure "Current extent of the Israeli clearing operations in Gaza". What does "clearing operations" mean? It doesn't seem to be a common term, and a google search mainly brought up mine clearing. Is there a more standard term that could be used here? Maybe "area occupied by Israel" could be used, in line with the terminology used in Outline of the Russo-Ukrainian War? Amaurea (talk) 09:47, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Clearance operation? As in to clear something, mines, persons. I think it should be specified what is being cleared and using the expression as euphemism should be avoided but I don't think the term is that unclear. Selfstudier (talk) 11:14, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested Move 20 January 2023

2023 Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip TO Israeli Invasion of the Gaza Strip

Because 2023 is over.

DitorWiki (talk) 12:56, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Lede and body

This article should be broader than the Israel-Hamas war in relation to Gaza and it misses some key points: the destruction of cultural heritage; the desecration of cemeteries; and the use of controversial weapons including white phosphorus and 2,000 pound bombs. Also, the lede needs to be significantly expanded. I will need help in this. Makeandtoss (talk) 08:39, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

I agree, especially since this focuses on the “boots on the ground” invasion. What do you suggest as a start to improve the lead with? The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 02:48, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
Sections on cultural heritage and desecration of cemeteries can be created first, and then reflected in the lede. The lede could use the summary of parts of the lede in the Israel-Hamas war as well. Makeandtoss (talk) 09:26, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

"Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 January 23 § Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip until a consensus is reached. Elli (talk | contribs) 15:21, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Casualties

@linkin prankster I reverted your edit as it showed the total death toll since 7 October, when it should show the death toll since 27 October, when the invasion began The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 06:13, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

@Linkin Prankster misspelled your username, refer to the comment this replies toThe Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 06:14, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
@The Great Mule of Eupatoria: You didn't revert but changed the number to a new one not there previously. A revert would be the same number there previously. And since you've been reverted, you should discuss now instead. Do you have a source for your number? Linkin Prankster (talk) 03:34, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Your numbers are not incorrect, however they include all deaths since the 7th of October
on October 27 according to the Gaza health ministry about 7300 Palestinians were killed altogether civilian and combatant
https://palinfo.com/news/2023/10/27/857439/
while on October 26th, the day preceding the invasion, the euro-med health monitor had provided a count of about 6200 civilians
https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/5888/Statistics-on-the-Israeli-attack-on-the-Gaza-Strip-%2807---26-October-2023%29
as the number of deaths here precede the ground invasion, they must be excluded from the total deaths killed since October 7 (when the invasion started) The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 04:50, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Sorry but you're providing two different sources. Gaza Health Ministry and Euro-Med Monitor do not have the same tolls. But you can subtract the number of Euro-Med pre-invasion, I won't mind. Linkin Prankster (talk) 16:53, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
I am aware, I provided both numbers as both Gaza health ministry and euro med death tolls are mentioned in the infobox The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 17:57, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I misunderstood your comment. Linkin Prankster (talk) 06:51, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

@Kostja: The Euro-Med and Gaza Health Ministry toll includes Palestinian casualties since October 7 when Israel began striking Gaza, not just the casualties since October 27 invasion began. That's why we've included sources for casulaties up to October 26 to subtract it from the total toll until October 7. Please see this discussion. Linkin Prankster (talk) 05:29, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Euro-Med Monitor

The numbers claimed regarding Militant casualties in the Gaza Strip are not explicitly shown in the links cited, and do not refer to any data for the breakdown of casualties. Additionally, the quality of EMM data is questionable. Therefore, I believe the part of the section on “Hamas casualties” mentioning EMM should be deleted 2A00:A041:3966:D700:2539:7C3A:330D:F90E (talk) 15:28, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Not done. Personal opinions are not relevant and per WP:ARBECR, non ECR editors may only file edit requests.Selfstudier (talk) 15:50, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

HAMAS USED ELECTRICIY OF UNWRA

https://www.mako.co.il/news-military/2024_q1/Article-5d4e24e11739d81026.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=173113802

AND "In the offices of UNRA officials, intelligence and documents were found that testified that the same offices were also used by the terrorists of the terrorist organization Hamas..." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.57.201.9 (talk) 18:30, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

== Body cameras located by the paratroopers in western Khan Yunis revealed the method by which Hamas plants explosives and captures houses in the Strip

https://www.mako.co.il/news-military/2024_q1/Article-c5c7d2593f89d81027.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=173113802 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.57.201.9 (talk) 20:42, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 26 January 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved as proposed  — Amakuru (talk) 21:26, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

2023 Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip → Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip (2023–present) – I am finding only listing the year 2023 as a misnomer here, as the invasion has continued well into this year. A previous bold move was reverted for an unclear reason. NasssaNsertalk 07:36, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Comment Pinging Hilst and Lukt64 for courtesy. NasssaNsertalk 07:36, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
Note: WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 07:59, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
Note: WikiProject Military history has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 08:01, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
  • Support The conflict has obviously continued on into 2024. Updating the title is the only option except for removing the date(s) entirely – which is silly. Detsom (talk) 23:20, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
Support No matter how "significant" this invasion is, this is just one of many invasions and its misleading to imply that Israel invaded the Gaza Strip only once, or that the previous invasions weren't similar in caliber and importance. HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 16:26, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 February 2024

There are a few mistakes in this page. Number of casualties, who were Israeli citizens is 1200 and not 255

https://www.csis.org/analysis/hamass-october-7-attack-visualizing-data#:~:text=The%20Israeli%20government's%20most%20recent,and%20murdered%2038%20Israeli%20citizens. Noa laufer (talk) 20:02, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made (I can't find "255" in the article). Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 23:24, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Number of Israeli military personnel killed on 7th October compared to civilians.

Text says largely non-combatant personnel - but actually in the same 2 to 1 ratio cited by Israel during its invasion of Gaza. 4 military bases over-run by Palestinians including Brigade HQ

Source France 24 also similar to Al Jazeera. https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231215-israel-social-security-data-reveals-true-picture-of-oct-7-deaths The final death toll from the attack is now thought to be 695 Israeli civilians, including 36 children, as well as 373 security forces and 71 foreigners, giving a total of 1,139.

. 2A00:23C6:E80C:3401:F459:43BC:9D35:72A3 (talk) 01:58, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Hamas Casualties

Neither link provided by Euro-Med monitor regarding Hamas casualties actually provides the number of militants killed. It is unclear where the claim of 1892 killed came from. Link 30 makes no mention, Link 31 is an infograph that only mentions 7274 total casualties including civilians Dusawzays (talk) 15:36, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Moreover, in the casualties section declaring 234 IDF casualties as "heavy" for such an urban offensive doesn't seem to be correct word. Especially when we compare it to other urban conflicts in recent history where casualty numbers have been much more significant relative to the forces deployed. Dusawzays (talk) 16:02, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Why idf entered again to Zitun?

here the answer

https://mobile.mako.co.il/news-military/2024_q1/Article-e876f4a52cccd81026.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=173113802 2.55.2.197 (talk) 20:56, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Timeline

I just noticed that this article is unpleasant to read, mostly like a news compilation instead of an encyclopaedic article. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:14, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. I think it’s better to condense the days into months with important events being highlighted instead of a day-by-day timeline, thought it would be tedious The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 07:42, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
Totally agree. Cipherian (talk) 21:46, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 February 2024

Change "As a result of the invasion, South Africa instituted proceedings against Israel in the International Court of Justice (ICJ), charging that Israel was guilty of committing a genocide,[70] South Africa and requested that the ICJ render provisional measures of protection." to "As a result of the invasion, South Africa instituted proceedings against Israel in the International Court of Justice (ICJ), charging that Israel was guilty of committing a genocide,[70] and requesting that the ICJ render provisional measures of protection. OffTheDeepEnd (talk) 21:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Addendum: Grammar fix OffTheDeepEnd (talk) 21:11, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 Done NasssaNsertalk 10:32, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

"el" in place of "ad" in "Izz ad-Deen al-Qassam Brigades" in at least one instance

In the following passage, "Abu Ubaida, the spokesperson for the Izz el-Deen al-Qassam Brigades, reported that due to Israeli air strikes, the bodies of 23 missing Israeli hostages were buried under the rubble." change "Izz el-Deen al-Qassam Brigades" to "Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades." In Arabic, "Al" is blended with the following letter if the following letter is a "sun letter." Furthermore, the Brigades are referred to with an "ad" rather than an "el" throughout the article and Wikipedia as a whole.

Cipherian (talk) 21:41, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done NasssaNsertalk 10:48, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
Note: This is the wording of Reuters in the cited sources. NasssaNsertalk 10:48, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Add reference for civilian casualties section

Under Casualties, Civilian casualties Add a reference for The Open University of Israel's 61% civilian casualty ratio. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/civilian-toll-israeli-airstrikes-gaza-unprecedented-killing-study Aheathcote2006 (talk) 21:17, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done I also cleaned up the wording to reflect updates made to this source after publication. Thanks. Jamedeus (talk) 21:35, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

humanitarians breaks

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/s1h2ut57a https://news.walla.co.il/item/3621664

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/bkguk1zta — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.57.201.9 (talk) 20:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Rafah aid truck massacre

This morning Israeli forces shot a tank round and opened up machine gun fire on Palestinian civilians getting aid from a truck.[1][2][3] There is already a confirmed 100+ killed and 700 wounded and this number will surely continue to rise. We should make a article called Rafah aid truck massacre separate from this article. The death toll and circumstances are relatively similar (In the sense that innocent Palestinian civilians were massacred) to Rafah massacre and Khan Younis massacre that we already have articles for. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maxsmart50 (talk • contribs) 15:57, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Al-Rashid humanitarian aid incident exists. A move discussion is debating renaming it Al-Rashid Massacre. Carwil (talk) 19:34, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/29/dozens-killed-injured-by-israeli-fire-in-gaza-while-collecting-food-aid
  2. ^ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/dozens-killed-gaza-aid-queue-overall-death-toll-passes-30000-2024-02-29/
  3. ^ https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/strike-palestinians-waiting-aid-gaza-kills-wounds-dozens-107666428

Helping from sea

https://mobile.mako.co.il/news-military/2024_q1/Article-2d74895f7bf1e81027.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=173113802 2.55.163.39 (talk) 22:08, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Statistics

a statistian wrote about it

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers 2.55.163.39 (talk) 22:09, 8 March 2024 (UTC)WP:ARBECR

Wow. That is a really detailed article. Yeah, this needs to be discussed and figured out with how to manage numbers and casualties from the war. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 22:15, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
On a cursory glance, the article raises a few valid points but also makes a few unwarranted assumptions (an example: for the author, being "affiliated with Hamas" = being an active fighter = being more likely to get killed, although we know that most Hamas party members are not fighters, and trained fighters/soldiers in any war are actually less likely to be killed than untrained civilians). It's certainly an interesting read, but I wouldn't rely on it uncritically. — kashmīrī TALK 13:46, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
I've added a brief summary to the article. Alaexis¿question? 15:56, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
I wouldn't consider TableMag an unbiased source due to its self-proclaimed identity.[6] Moreover, there are further issues with the article; for instance, the author does not consider the existence of such factors, as reporting delays, multi-day aggregated data being averaged by the Health Ministry, assumptions re. date of death when bodies are found, etc. Also, author's assumption that the number of killed children should correlate with the number of killed women is absurd not only for anyone who specialises in medicine but also for anyone who understands the social structure of the Palestinian society (children stay with mothers only upto certain age which is not 18). And so on. I think this source, albeit an interesting read, should not be added to Wikipedia. — kashmīrī TALK 03:33, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
There's so many things wrong with the article I consider it can't just be a mistake or reflect bias. The author has deliberately written it to disinform and act as propaganda. There's a discussion at WP:RSN#Tablet (magazine) and article by Wharton statistician. NadVolum (talk) 12:28, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Intelligent Services Access Manager FTTN

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/yokra13797033 It was found at tunnel 2.55.34.23 (talk) 05:59, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

I have zero trust in Israeli claims. The caption of the first image says "server room in the Hamas tunnel", with the readers lead to believe that these green boxes are servers. Well, that's a lie, these boxes are solar power inverters supplying solar power for UNRWA office.[7] I have no reason to believe in the other claims made by Ynet, which is borderline reliable anyway. — kashmīrī TALK 12:34, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
Your personal opinion is not a parameter.
Your Honor, you are relying on the MBI website which is associated with the radical left and the politician Corbyn (as written at this (https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-rise-of-the-alt-left) article about the website) who tends to lie. This is a person who is pro-Hamas. UNRA itself admitted that it was not aware of what was under the building. The author of the article i attached is a well-known journalist, Ronen Bergman, who was in the tunnel under the building with the server. 2.55.34.23 (talk) 06:01, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
By the way, there is no contradiction that it was a dual-use compound and the military use is what is important in a military context.2.55.34.23 (talk) 06:09, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

map is mis-labelled

main wiki entry says "maximum extent of Hamas advance," but clicking the map, the actual map says "maximum extent of Palestinian advance." This is problematic language, which can lead to the false perception of collective action, and support collective punishment. 23.245.125.103 (talk) 23:27, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

It sounds like you want File:October 2023 Gaza−Israel conflict.svg to be changed. Please see the existing discussion of that file at c:File talk:October 2023 Gaza−Israel conflict.svg. jlwoodwa (talk) 19:51, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

The mokhtar of the Dagamesh

The mokhtar of the Dagamesh clan, which sits in the north of the Gaza Strip and holds a lot of ammunition, was eliminated according to reports in the "court" of Hamas. https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/hjtejxlr6 2.55.168.155 (talk) 19:44, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 00:02, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
I ask to memtion that "Hamas executed the Mokhtar of the Dagash clan in the north of the Gaza Strip, after it was recently reported that Israel had been in talks with the heads of clans in the Gaza Strip so that they would supervise the aid to the Gazans." I added a source. Just read. 2.55.34.23 (talk) 05:49, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
 Done. I've added the allegations of food theft as they also appear in the source. Alaexis¿question? 22:28, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

I ask to add - about the departure

Following the departure of the israeli army from Khan Yunis, several hundred israeli fighters remained in the Strip, when at the height of the ground maneuver the number was between 30 and 40 thousand (the size of a little more than 20 Israeli brigades). This is based on this: https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/byijnhjxa 2.55.15.10 (talk) 14:28, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

I ask to add - statistics

The Ministry of Health in Gaza has changed its working method in relation to previous conflicts. This may affect the results. For details:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/terror-and-security/unrwa-staff-death-toll-gaza-israel-hamas-war-data/

https://twitter.com/MarkZlochin/status/1776689027007062105 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.57.201.9 (talk) 14:22, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

i ask to add - hospitals

The spokesman of the Islamic Jihad in the Gaza Strip was caught in the raid on Shifa.

In his investigation, he said: "At the beginning of the war, is it true that a rocket fell at the hospital? It was a local rocket that we said was Israeli," the spokesman admitted in the investigation at the 504 unit of the AMN. was the building. Some of the international press relied on this story. Some of the international communication systems contact us automatically when an event like this happens." also, 

 "All the hospitals are used because there is internet and electricity there 24 hours." According to him, "there are places within them that are chosen. For example, two rooms are taken from the X-ray department, two rooms are taken from the emergency room, and a room is taken from the internal department. The departments are not closed completely."

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/r1al49zgc#autoplay — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.57.201.9 (talk) 17:54, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

I view all evidence under interrogation with deep suspicion, especially that of terrorists and suspected terrorists. But yes I guess it can go in with proper attribution and giving the circumstances of where it was said. NadVolum (talk) 19:23, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

I ask to add: trend in combat

There is a decline in the intensity of fighting in the Strip. According to the data published by the IDF, in the 100 days after October 7, the IDF carried out approximately 30,000 airstrikes, compared to only 2,000 in the following 80 days - a drop of approximately 90%. The decrease in the intensity of combat can also be seen in the number of terrorists that were eliminated : about 9,000 in the first 100 days compared to about 3,000 in the following 80 days. 2.55.46.69 (talk) 09:55, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

https://mobile.mako.co.il/news-specials/data_n12/Article-7744277cba0ce81027.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=173113802 2.55.46.69 (talk) 10:30, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Hamas casualties

Reuters reported on Hamas' acknowledgement of losing 6000 fighters, it makes no sense to use the Euro Med Monitor claims of <3000 instead of claims from the organization itself which has confirmed higher numbers

Hamas official based in Qatar told Reuters that the group estimated it had lost 6,000 fighters 31.154.220.91 (talk) 10:55, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

100% IdontreadonlyLEAD (talk) 12:08, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 April 2024

Hamas casualties - I estimate by srouces 6,250-13,200 have been KIA. Number of wounded Israeli soldiers over 1,500. 2A00:23C8:180B:9F00:85FC:3BAE:DD35:A92B (talk) 17:32, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. PianoDan (talk) 17:44, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-six-week-drive-hit-hamas-rafah-scale-back-war-2024-02-19/
Hamas officials say 6000 here. IdontreadonlyLEAD (talk) 12:10, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Gaza casualty figures out of date

It seems that the casualty figures have not been updated for a while. Al Jazeera, citing Gaza's Health Ministry lists the following casualties: Killed: at least 33,899 people Injured: more than 76,664 people Missing: more than 8,000

West Bank casualties: Killed: at least 468 people Injured: more than 4,750

Link: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker TrentShadduck (talk) 06:09, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps best to alter the article to not need those figures. NadVolum (talk) 08:05, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

RAFAH - published plan

https://www.mako.co.il/news-military/2024_q2/Article-95775f0a0b31f81027.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=173113802

Exposing N12: step by step - this is what the Israeli plan for the Rafah operation looks like — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A0D:6FC0:B6D:E300:B873:AFBF:5311:4BA4 (talk) 07:28, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Edit Request - misinformation - impersonations - nurse video

I'd like someone to add that the nurse video was originally posted on the israeli government foreign ministry's arabic twitter account https://www.thedailybeast.com/israels-comically-bad-disinfo-proves-theyre-losing-pr-war and that it seems like it was boosted by Edward Haïm Cohen Halala, who has reported ties to the israeli government, who apparently has a popular social media presence with an Arabic following. https://misbar.com/en/editorial/2023/08/18/how-does-edy-cohen-stir-up-controversy-and-mislead-the-arab-public-opinion https://www.newsweek.com/israeli-influencer-denies-playing-gaza-nurse-viral-video-1844715 I'm not sure how much of a reliable source misbar is but the newsweek article supports that it was his account that boosted the video.  I'm not as familiar with social media as I could be, it would be good if somebody with a good background in social media forensics were to have input on this. Fanccr (talk) 07:17, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Charliehdb (talk) 09:39, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

>>Please change nothing at the end of the second paragraph in impersonations section of the misinformation section of the article to: "The video was originally posted on the israeli government foreign ministry's Arabic twitter account and it seems like it was boosted by Edward Haïm Cohen Halala, who has reported ties to the israeli government, who has a popular social media presence with an Arabic following." using the three sources, daily beast for the foreign ministrys account being the source, newsweek for Edy Cohen boosting it and misbar for Edy Cohen having ties to the israeli government.Fanccr (talk) 10:15, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Israeli armored vehicles destroyed

According to the IDF, 38 Israeli armored Vehicles that had active protection system were damaged and needed repairs, and 2 armored vehicles were totally destroyed. https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/bkwdivbga?utm_source=ynet.app.android&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=general_share&utm_term=bkwdivbga&utm_content=Header 2A13:54C1:F000:867B:2504:3F35:92EB:E46 (talk) 15:09, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Referencing

Is it normal for Al Jazeera to be a main source? 48JCL 19:30, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes. See WP:ALJAZEERA. — kashmīrī TALK 00:16, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
Got it, I knew it was reliable but I was just questioning the input. 48JCL 00:17, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Edit request - Euro-Med casualties figure

The referenced tweet to the number of casualties by the Euro-Med organization includes an infographic titled "Statistics on the Israeli Genocide in the Gaza Strip" which indirectly shows that only 3,889 Palestinian combatants have been killed. The real number is clearly much higher and this source clearly shows imaginated numbers to inflate the civilian casualties count and push the "genocide" narrative. 2A0D:6FC7:526:A2F:E5E1:9BE9:B4F1:F3C9 (talk) 23:55, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

 Not done, please reword as "change X to Y", providing a reliable source. — kashmīrī TALK 18:47, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

DATA TO ADD

On May 8, the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs published data showing that the number of identified deaths in the Gaza Strip - as of April 30 - is 24,686, while the number published by the Gaza Ministry of Health is 34,844.

https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-215

 Not done, please reword as "Change X to Y", providing a reliable source.

For information: the OCHA numbers are sourced from the Ministry of Health of Gaza according to the footnote on the infographics. — kashmīrī TALK 18:50, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 May 2024

add Hezbollah to Belligerents 98.110.81.233 (talk) 23:22, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. In particular, please provide a reliable source that states that Hezbollah is fighting Israel in Gaza. — kashmīrī TALK 23:27, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Edit Request - ROB

https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2024/05/04/dans-gaza-en-ruines-une-serie-de-casses-spectaculaires-dans-des-banques_6231479_3210.html Militants robbed banks

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Charliehdb (talk) 09:39, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
I ask to add it at the right part
I dont offer to change 2.55.17.164 (talk) 10:10, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 May 2024

In the chapter on offenses there is a reference to the assessment regarding the children who perished, half. The problem is that the figures published by the UN contradict this and it is 30%. Therefore it should be removed. https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-215

 Not done for now: according to the footnote on the OCHA infographics, OCHA victim numbers are sourced from the Ministry of Health of Gaza. Please note the difference between confirmed and confirmed and identified. — kashmīrī TALK 11:13, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
It's also to be noted that different sources will give different statistics. No one is completely reliable. Linkin Prankster (talk) 14:32, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

 Comment: Unlike some mass media or Israeli-aligned NGOs, we can't proclaim "halving the number of killed" without knowing the details of the methodology used by the authorities there. We know that Palestinian authorities administer a population registry[8] – a concept not known in the US or UK. It will be safe to assume that an unidentified victim for the Palestinian authorities does not mean that the body wasn't that of a woman or of a child; it rather means that the victim could not be matched to an identity recorded in the registry. The total number of victims stays the same, as we see on the infographics, just a registry search yields much smaller numbers of ages and genders. It's likely that the remaining 10,000+ bodies will be matched to actual people, but it may require exhumations, DNA testing and, therefore, a longer perspective. — kashmīrī TALK 16:12, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

Unsuccessful. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 02:32, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip (2023–present)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: John Cummings (talk · contribs) 13:19, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: ElijahPepe (talk · contribs) 02:31, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Topic is ongoing and article does not appear to be stable with prose issues. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 02:31, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add isaeli ministry of defense to casualties

one israeli civilian employee of the israel ministry of defense was killed and two wounded but not added to the casualty count 2605:B100:D20:FD72:0:3:45F:C701 (talk) 20:26, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Data for Casualty Information

Apologies if formatting is made incorrectly. I believe it is essential that all casualty information coming from the Gaza ministry of health includes the disclaimer that the ministry is Hamas-run, and casualties include Hamas militants. Additionally, many comments related to most casualties being women and children is no longer corroborated by the UN, and this should just say 'many of the casualties are woman and children'. These changes are necessary to ensure Wikipedia maintains its political neutrality. Public Transit User (talk) 00:45, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Not done. This is subject of a discussion at the main article. Selfstudier (talk) 09:24, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 May 2024

Under the "May 15" subsection of the "Attack on Rafah" section of the article, I recommend changing "A IDF tank fired into a building housing them." to "An IDF tank fired into a building housing them." to fix grammar. Anonymous Libertarian (talk) 08:45, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done — kashmīrī TALK 14:40, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Please remember to tag redirects that you create per WP:REDCAT.

voorts (talk/contributions) 05:34, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 May 2024 (2)

2A00:23C8:180B:9F00:8439:9B86:7821:5F83 (talk) 23:58, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
Amount of Hamas fighters estimate is 20,000-25,000 fighters. US says 30%-35% killed. so ranging 7,000-8,750 kia
 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 20:27, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 May 2024

Please update the death totals for women and children for this article.

Original: More than 31,000 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza since the start of the Israeli operation,[51] including more than 13,000 children and 9,000 women.[52] with another 7,000 people missing and presumed dead under the rubble of destroyed buildings.[53][54]

New: More than 35,000 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza since the start of the Israeli operation,[1] including more than 7,800 children and 4,900 women, with another 10,000 people missing and presumed dead under the rubble of destroyed buildings.[2]


Additional context:

The original information is incorrect. The UN changed its reporting to source these numbers to Gaza Ministry of Health statistics instead of the Gaza Government Media Office's (GMO's) numbers between May 6 and May 8. Because the UN is ultimately the source of the original numbers and UNICEF is mis-citing the original stats, they should be changed. UNICEF cites the numbers as from Gaza Ministry of Health, but according to BBC (and other sources), those numbers are from GMO, not Ministry of Health: Bottom of pg 2, [3]

It may be appropriate to add a section to Misinformation regarding this change, since this inherently reflects the UN's perception that the GMO numbers dramatically overstated the percentage of women and children killed since the beginning of the conflict. That is the reason for time sensitivity around this change.

Because the numbers are closer to, but below round numbers, it is potentially easier to understand as, "including close to 8,000 children and 5,000 women." Qmarkp (talk) 21:10, 22 May 2024 (UTC) Qmarkp

References

  1. ^ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-says-gaza-death-toll-still-over-35000-not-all-bodies-identified-2024-05-13/
  2. ^ https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-69014893
  3. ^ https://www.unicef.org/media/156451/file/SoP-Humanitarian-SitRep-Escalation-01-May-2024.pdf
 Done P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 20:36, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Edit Request - misinformation - impersonations - nurse video

Please change nothing at the end of the second paragraph in impersonations section of the misinformation section of the article to: "The video was originally posted on the israeli government foreign ministry's Arabic twitter account and it was boosted by Edward Haïm Cohen Halala, who has reported ties to the israeli government, who has a popular social media presence with an Arabic following." using the three sources, daily beast for the foreign ministrys account being the source, newsweek for Edy Cohen boosting it and misbar for Edy Cohen having ties to the israeli government. https://www.thedailybeast.com/israels-comically-bad-disinfo-proves-theyre-losing-pr-war https://www.newsweek.com/israeli-influencer-denies-playing-gaza-nurse-viral-video-1844715 https://misbar.com/en/editorial/2023/08/18/how-does-edy-cohen-stir-up-controversy-and-mislead-the-arab-public-opinion Fanccr (talk) 23:24, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done See corresponding excerpted page. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 20:57, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Start date

Sometimes airstrikes happen in advance of boots on the ground. Other times, boots on the ground and airstrikes start at the same time. In this case, airstrikes started before the incursions. This is similar to United States invasion of Afghanistan, when airstrikes started on Oct 7 (strange coincidence) but incursions didn't start until Oct 19. But that article still starts from the initial airstrikes and this article should do the same. It was obvious from the initial airstrikes that they were made with an intent to invade (eg see this Times of Israel article from Oct 8).VR (Please ping on reply) 04:00, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

there are 4 dates that can be considered which are 7 October (based on your justification)
9 October (when airstrikes were intensified and the plans for an invasion were starting to come through)
13 October (that is when ground incursions were made, there is a geolocated map that is trying to gather all Israeli incursions in the two weeks at that point)
27 October - the true full-scale invasion
I would lean on 27 October, but this isn’t a strong suggestion, as all 4 dates can be considered and you have given a good justification for your set date The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 06:00, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Yeah, I think that bombing done as a prelude to the invasion, with the specific intent of invasion, should constitute a part of that invasion.VR (Please ping on reply) 19:41, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

There are other reasons to consider the start date Oct 7, not Oct 27. The sources make the Oct 7 distinction, but not the Oct 27 distinction:

  • The Gaza Health Ministry, UNRWA and all other sources count Palestinian casualties starting Oct 7. I have never seen a single source treat pre-Oct 27 and post-Oct 27 casualties separately.
  • Likewise, the bombing of Gaza Strip, which has been a constant theme during the invasion, started on Oct 7 and has continued well past Oct 27.
  • In the Gulf war article, "17 January – 28 February 1991" is given as the date for "Operation Desert Storm". Yet 17 January is the beginning of Gulf War air campaign, whereas the ground operations began later.
  • Israel's term for the invasion, "Operation Swords of Iron", officially started on Oct 7. For example, Times of Israel published "Oct 9: Day 3 of Operation Swords of Iron"[9].
  • Israel formally declared war on Oct 8 and on the same day announced an "offensive" in the war declaration[10]
  • Accusations of Israeli war crimes and Gaza genocide likewise span starting Oct 7 and make no "Oct 27" distinction.
  • The first Gaza Strip evacuation, which was obviously a prelude to the invasion, was announced on Oct 13, although Netanyahu told Gazans to "leave now"[11] as early as Oct 8.VR (Please ping on reply) 15:07, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 June 2024

change starting date from 7 October 2023 to 27 October 2023 as the article said a few weeks ago as the Israel hamas war started october 7 but this proper invasion started 27 October 2023 173.72.3.91 (talk) 16:57, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

 Done Skitash (talk) 17:10, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
@Skitash: Did you notice the talk page discussion ("Start date") to change it to 7 October? I find it strange to claim a consensus at the request of a single IP. If anything, I think they should have joined that discussion. Renerpho (talk) 22:21, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
Agreed. I'll revert that change. I think there are further reasons to keep the date at October 7, and I'll post them above too.VR (Please ping on reply) 14:48, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 Undone: This request has been undone. As per above – macaddct1984 (talk | contribs) 12:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 31 May 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. Editors recognised that there was more than one time when Israel invaded the Gaza Strip, and that those times were significant. The consensus view was that the invasion which began in October 2023 was the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Particularly in relation to the invasion during the Six-Day War, several editors argued that the 1967 event would not be commonly sought by the term "Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip", and exercised their judgement of primary topic accordingly. (closed by non-admin page mover) Adumbrativus (talk) 04:51, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

– Just like we don't have a date on Israel-Hamas war, as that is by far the most significant of the wars between Israel and Hamas, the current invasion of Gaza Strip is by far the most significant of the invasions of Gaza Strip. It is the longest in duration, most extensive in damage, the highest in casualties and received the most international attention. VR (Please ping on reply) 18:54, 31 May 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.  — Amakuru (talk) 07:40, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

  • Support per nom Parham wiki (talk) 12:37, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
  • Support while both 2009 and 2014 saw boots on the ground, this current war saw a longer protracted invasion and a guerrilla war longer than both of the other instances combined. It is distinct enough to warrant its own name The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 03:16, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
  • Support Deals with the date issue and provides a disambiguation for reader convenience. Selfstudier (talk) 09:14, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Unlike the Israel–Hamas war example in the nom, and despite the recent events, surely the 1967 invasion during the Six Day War remains the most significant and far-reaching Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip? Prior to that invasion, the area was Egyptian territory and was not under the sphere of influence of modern Israel, and the events that occurred in Gaza since them have all sprung from that. The current war is certainly of huge importance, and the most sought-after right now, but looking at the longterm significance criterion of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and WP:RECENTISM I don't think there's a clear winner here and I think the current situation of having a disambiguation page is correct. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 06:46, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
    the events that occurred in Gaza since them have all sprung from that. I don't think that's the case. The current events, a de facto leveling of Gaza arise by virtue of Hamas involvement in Gaza and all of the subsequent Israel Gaza wars. For that matter, the 67 war is not the only invasion, there was 48 and the Suez crisis and the unsourced cherry picking of the ptopic is merely an assertion on your part. Selfstudier (talk) 10:40, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
    I don't think I'm the one who's "cherry-picking" here... I'm saying there's no primary topic between the multiple invasions of this territory over the years, particularly the original one that kicked off the whole concept of Gaza being a disputed territory in the first place, whereas you're making the classic mistake of saying "this item in the news right now must be the primary topic because it's important and getting loads of coverage". Perhaps I phrased my oppose poorly, because I'm not saying the current invasion isn't a contender for PT, only that it isn't the only one and it is WP:RECENTISM to claim otherwise. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 10:35, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
    The situation bears comparison with Israel–Hamas_war -> Gaza–Israel conflict / Gaza War.
    Then Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip should maybe go there as IHwar does since it is a component of the same war (the dates were also removed for IH war even though there are many wars between Israel and Hamas, just titled differently.
    However it is resolved for disambiguation purposes, I still think the dates should come off the same as for IH war (or the dates should go back on for that). Selfstudier (talk) 11:02, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
    The 1967 invasion of Gaza was very much part of the invasion of Sinai. It is possible in the future that we spinout Six-Day_War#Gaza_Strip_and_Sinai_Peninsula into Israeli invasion of Gaza and Sinai. But I don't think we'd call that article "Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip" or "1967 Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip". It would also make little sense to separate the Israeli invasion of Gaza from the Israeli invasion of Sinai.VR (Please ping on reply) 13:24, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
    Whether or not there would be a dedicated article to the invasion of Gaza in 1967 isn't really relevant in determining primary topic. It could be a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT, whichever broader article it falls under. This title is a descriptive sentence-case name describing the event, not a specific proper name such as "World War II". And the question we ask ourselves is which historical events that descriptive name could describe. Did Israel invade the Gaza strip in 1967? Of course they did. Did they also do so in 2023? Yes. So both those topics are contenders for primacy here. Dismissing the 1967 one as part of a wider campaign is missing the point. CHeers  — Amakuru (talk) 10:39, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

My point is while your argument is based on WP:PT2, we can't ignore WP:PT1, which is whether this title is "the topic sought when a reader searches for that term." While "Invasion of Gaza Strip" to describe the 1967 war is technically correct, RS don't use that term that way. At best RS might use "Israeli invasion of Gaza and Sinai", but more likely they would use the word "Front" as opposed to "Invasion", and most simply use "1967 war" or "Six day war". Consider other recent examples:

Caption text
Term Target that a user is likely looking for (PT1) Target that technically fits the definition and is more historically significant (PT2) Explanation for PT2
"Invasion of Cyprus", "Turkish invasion of Cyprus" Turkish Invasion of Cyprus Ottoman–Venetian War (1570–1573) The 1570 conquest by Turks took the entire island (not just the north) and endured for several centuries.
"Russian invasion of Ukraine" Russian invasion of Ukraine Russo-Polish War (1654–1667) the 17th century one actually brought Kyiv under Russian control (which didn't happen in 2022) and endured for centuries
"Invasion of Kuwait" Iraqi invasion of Kuwait Battle of Chains (633) The 633 Arab-Islamic invasion resulted it in becoming predominantly Arab and Islamic. By contrast the 1991 invasion was defeated quickly.

In each of these cases, PT1 dominates mainly because few would use the given term to describe the more historically significant PT2 target.VR (Please ping on reply) 16:11, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

PT1 never dominates over PT2. We're an encyclopedia, not a current affairs magazine. The recent war is certainly highly significant, but not the only one that's highly significant. Why did you become a Wikipedian if you're only interested in modern history?  — Amakuru (talk) 21:54, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
I don't think this particular case is at all clear from any perspective and disambiguation is frequently argued over in general, editors can differ in opinion. I would let this go ftb and then try to address the disambiguation in general rather than specific to this article. Selfstudier (talk) 09:41, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
The Six-Day War is not commonly called "Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip" – the latter is neither a synonym nor a WP:COMMONNAME of the Six-Day War. In constrast, I believe that Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip is the COMMONNAME and thus PRIMARYTOPIC for the ongoing developments. — kashmīrī TALK 20:13, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
  • Support. It's WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, thus incomparably more likely to be searched by readers. Of course, historical events can be linked to from a hatnote. — kashmīrī TALK 20:18, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
  • Support per nom. Was planning on closing this discussion based on current consensus to move as proposed, but instead thought I'd add my opinion that I agree with the proposed move to make it easier for someone looking for an easy RM close, based on current lack of !votes. Overall, despite the initially convincing argument regarding PRIMARYTOPIC and RECENTISIM, the rationale that the Six Day War was never the commonly referenced as an "Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip" is more compelling, and thus, moving the other title to disambag, to make way for this article, makes the most sense in this case. Most notably, of the articles currently in the disambig list, only one of them has "Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip" in the title, which should confirm that there is only one article with this COMMONNAME at present. CNC (talk) 19:34, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
  • Oppose Israel has invaded gaza many times. So the date should exist to avoid confusion at-least until current conflict ends. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gsgdd (talk • contribs) 10:03, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
    Israel has warred with Hamas many times but the Israel-Hamas war date was removed? Selfstudier (talk) 15:46, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
Strong oppose: Israel has indeed invaded Gaza many times, especially in conflicts that were not related to Hamas, in 1956 and 1957. This would be a confusing name change. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:28, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
@Makeandtoss: no one is proposing Hamas in the title. Would you not agree that this invasion is far more destructive and signficant than previous invasions?VR (Please ping on reply) 05:28, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
What I was saying is standardizing the name like that risks overshadowing these other past invasions. Of course it is the most significant but removing the year removes any context to it and makes it too general. Makeandtoss (talk) 06:59, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
Support: Gaza has been invaded before, but those other instances are not primarily known or categorised as "invasions of Gaza" generally, nor the "invasion of the Gaza Strip" specifically. The proposed title is the clear WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, and the base name was very notably unused prior to this event (so if it was used before, it passed everyone by). The disambiguation page was created afterwards, and "invasion of the Gaza Strip" still redirects here (as of me posting this comment). Iskandar323 (talk) 16:14, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Per this

@Kashmiri, you're an experienced editor, was wondering, now that there is strong support for Al Jazeera's reliability to be changed from "reliable" to "no consensus" at the WP:RSN are you still sure that Al Jazeera is an appropriate source for something like this? — 48JCL 17:53, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

now that there is strong support for Al Jazeera's reliability to be changed from "reliable" to "no consensus" No such consensus. Selfstudier (talk) 14:10, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
@Selfstudier Thanks! It's so wrong. Picking up a few imprecise articles – that every single news media has – and then trying to smear the entire publication. It's so POV driven. I have no energy to go and defend against those nonsense claims. Just note that Ad Fontes assesses Al Jazeera's reliability as comparable to that of the BBC or CNN.[12][13][14] (Note: I'm not mentioning Ad Fontes' bias parameter, since per several WP discussions it actually means partisanship, not actual bias.) — kashmīrī TALK 08:40, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
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