Theory and practice: children’s philosophy www.teachthinking.

com

Are children
natural
philosophers?
Karin Murris replies to an article
in the last issue on Philosophy for
Children programmes in which
Richard Fox asked: ‘Can children
be philiosophical?’

T he idea that young children can do philosophy has instant

appeal. Their endless questioning about anything under the
sun – and beyond – persuades many teachers and parents
that this ancient subject comes naturally to children.
Philosophy with Children (PwC), however, involves more than
just asking philosophical questions or wondering about the
world. A philosophical enquiry between a large group of peers
is a highly disciplined activity and it can be argued that
‘Why do we always have to think making it part and parcel of an ordinary school day makes
unnatural demands on the young child psychologically. This
about something?’ (Sion, aged five) is Richard Fox’s standpoint in Can children be philosophical?
(published in the previous issue of Teaching Thinking Issue 4).
Here I examine some of his arguments. I have presented a
more extensive and detailed response to critics of PwC in Can
Children Do Philosophy? (Murris, 2000; for the text see also
www.dialogueworks.co.uk). Also, in Metaphors of the Child’s
Mind (Murris, 1997), I focus in particular on the metaphors
underpinning our thinking about (children’s) thinking.
Fox is eager to point out that PwC practitioners need to
accept the findings of developmental psychology. Children’s
psychological development, he says, limits the extent to which
they can be taken seriously as philosophers. Fox structures
his doubts about PwC in four ‘problems’.

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 www.teachthinking.com Theory and practice: children’s philosophy

The loss of adult philosophers activities, which scaffold the process of enquiry. Although
Problem 1: Discussions, reading and writing are what Fox whole-class-size enquiries are often at the centre of a
calls ‘unnatural’ classroom activities, causing ‘general session, the children are also often divided into small groups.
underlying tensions in the primary classroom’. Therefore, By observing and listening to a group of children carefully,
PwC is unnatural for young children. Instead, what comes teachers can experiment with role-play, drama, or physical
naturally to young children (especially boys) is ‘physical thinking games (see e.g. Eagle, 2001). Art materials can be
exploration and active manipulation’, he argues. They want used during thinking time or as follow-up activities; the use
to explore the world by acting upon it. Therefore they have of story-telling, videos, pictures, drama, music, picture books,
‘limited patience and perseverance with any classroom puppets or other concrete objects as starting points for
activity which demands long periods of inaction, of listening philosophical enquiries help to engage the children.
rather than speaking…’ All learning is about instilling certain habits – PwC is no
Fox has a point here; but this problem is not peculiar to exception. Developmental psychology has an important
PwC. It could be argued that all primary schooling is role in helping provide the right kind of environment for
unnatural; particularly in Britain which emphasises formal teaching thinking. In particular, Swiss psychologist Jean
education at a much earlier age than the rest of Europe. Piaget has had enormous influence on our current
However, young children can sit still and be focused for educational thinking. An underlying philosophical
long periods of time when an activity is meaningful to them; assumption of Piagetian theory is that children’s reasoning
and the space that PwC provides for children’s own interests will develop automatically as they get older, going through
and concerns is unique. It is a mistake to make a Philosophy irreversible, necessary age-related stages. Any attempt to
with Children session synonymous with just any whole-class hasten this process is a waste of time, says Piaget.
discussion.
Philosophy sessions are enquiries, not mere discussions.
So there is a ‘doing’ of an important kind – making meaning
by listening to others and sharing their experiences. The
space children have within which to explore and experience
their differences, and where they can make various
connections, is of a very special kind.
The presence of others provides the necessary ingredient
to make this process exciting. By challenging each other, with
the help of the teacher’s skilful questioning, the children start
to build on each other’s ideas. How the teacher listens and
questions is crucial for children’s engagement. Listening out
for the philosophical in what they say adds importance to
their exploration. Their concrete experiences are linked to
significant abstract concepts and questions, so that they gain
more insight into what they think and feel. For example, the
death of one child’s dog is connected with the abstract
concept of ‘friendship’. They learn not only about the Donaldson, whom Fox quotes, claims that Piaget’s
significance of pets, and about friendship more generally, but conclusions are suspect (Donaldson, 1978, p. 23). Donaldson
also about that particular child and what groups can do to says Piaget made the mistake of constructing experiments
help answer particular questions. Excitement increases as the that didn’t make sense to the young child (Donaldson, 1978,
children continue to follow the enquiry wherever it may lead. p. 23; Sutherland, 1992, p. 15). When experiments do make
They also experience the fact that adults are puzzled too by sense to the child, Donaldson suggests that children can
questions which still have no answers. decentre in imagination – a necessary requirement for
When observing and listening to children engaged in thinking and reasoning well – because if a child cannot shift
philosophical enquiries the opposite happens to what one between different points of view, she cannot make valid
would expect from normal classroom discussions. As the inferences (Donaldson, 1978, pp.20, 41).
children raise the topics for discussion themselves, and the The unquestioned assumption in developmental theories
teacher skilfully encourages them to build on each other’s is that the goal of the process is maturity – each stage is
ideas, excitement increases, and almost without exception followed by one that is ‘better’ or mature. But improved
there is huge disappointment when the session ends. Even handling of philosophical questions is not guaranteed by
with very young children one – hour sessions are no just growing up. Abstract concepts do not simply ‘develop’.
exception. The problem Fox is reporting does make sense In order to use concepts in a sophisticated manner, thinking
for a lot of educational activities, but not necessarily for PwC. about them in a disciplined and systematic manner helps
Also, good teachers of PwC incorporate materials and to ‘expand’ them. This is difficult for both children and adults.

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Training in philosophical enquiry is possibly more relevant therefore better at it. He calls this learning process an ‘uphill
than age. Ironically, maturity might even bring ‘staleness’ and struggle’ and claims that children find it hard to sustain a
‘uninventiveness’ (Matthews, 1994, p. 18) to the exploration level of discussion in which participants listen well and build
of philosophical ideas, while, by contrast, children are often on each other’s ideas.
‘fresh and inventive thinkers’. However, Piaget called In an enquiry, the children create new thoughts and ideas
children’s imaginative responses ‘mere romancing’ together. When talking, they are not merely expressing what
(Matthews, 1980, p. 39-41), and, using mathematical thinking they thought before, but they are incorporating new
as its paradigm, put a one-sided emphasis on the logical thoughts – for example, reasons offered by others – into new
aspects of children’s thinking. ideas. In the same way, the kind of active listening demanded
Kieran Egan – also quoted by Fox – provides many for enquiry involves suspension of one’s own interests and
arguments in favour of young children being capable of doing concerns and an intense awareness of the thread of the
PwC. Egan argues that the ‘other half’ of the child as learner – argument and the needs of others. Adults may be more
the imaginative side – has been neglected by many polite, but under that layer of social veneer there is often a
educational researchers (Egan, 1988, 1992, 1993). Egan points great reluctance to risk thinking aloud together and letting
out that education is about, not only what we gain, but also go of cherished beliefs. PwC challenges teachers to listen
about minimising losses, and what has been lost is `the ability to their children in a profound sense, letting go of the adult’s
to see that world as the child sees it, transfigured by fantasy’ perspective. Children and adults alike have to ‘start from
(Egan, 1988, p. 20). Fox rejects this ‘mythical thinking’ as scratch’ in a philosophical enquiry, questioning what they
romantic and unphilosophical. But, as Egan shows, it has its automatically assume to be true and often changing their
own ‘… complex logic and … this logic is not an opposite to minds. The adult philosopher’s knowledge, experience and
rational thought’ (Egan, 1988, p. 39). He regards it as the socialisation may be a hindrance rather than an asset.
foundation for rational thinking and argues that this kind of
thinking is certainly not ‘primitive’ and only less ‘abstract’ when Philosophy as the art of living
we mean by ‘abstraction’ the kind that depends heavily on Problem 3: Philosophical enquiry involves seeking answers
writing. The written word is much less charged than the to general questions by means of conceptual enquiry.
spoken word’… with the direct energy of the speaker’s body, According to Fox, adults distinguish between the different
and so the speaker’s hopes, fears, wants, needs, intentions, subjects and methods of enquiry, whereas children do not.
and so on’ (Egan, 1988, p. 70). Egan argues that children do Fox argues that keeping these different kinds of enquiry
think abstractly in the sense that they use abstract concepts, separate goes ‘against the grain of children’s thinking’. He
such as ‘brave’, ‘fair’, ‘good’, ‘friend’, but not dissociated from says: ‘everyday curiosity about their own immediate
their life world, in the way that literacy enables and interests at hand’ is more typical of young children’s thinking,
encourages them to be (Egan, 1988, pp. 75, 90, 91). and that it is hard for the adult teacher to ‘focus [them]
especially on philosophical issues and concerns’. This is
because they easily move from scientific to historical to
religious aspects of one and the same topic, he says.
Philosophical enquiries with children do transgress artificial
subject boundaries, and the class of concepts the children
enquire into is larger than that of philosophy as evolved into
the 21st century. A great deal depends on the facilitation skills
of the teacher to help the enquiry focus on philosophical
issues. But also, in an important sense, the philosophy of PwC
has ‘moved on’ from Enlightenment beliefs about rationality
and its naïve optimism about the role of the thinker in
acquiring true knowledge about the world. My personal view
of philosophy differs from that of Fox, whose own beliefs are
the ‘cornerstone’ of his fourth problem.
Problem 4: Fox mentions that philosophy is systematic,
theoretic and abstract thinking and that passion has no
place in philosophy. Progress in philosophy includes
Adults are not better listeners learning ‘to put feelings to one side in the process of
Problem 2: Fox maintains that the ability to understand and dispassionate enquiry’. But reason is at its most powerful
value the point of view of others is an essential part of the when the emotions are involved; pursuit of truth itself is an
ability to take part in discussions. This requires politeness, emotion. The impossibility of separating body from mind is
patience and empathy. Children still have to learn this from again increasingly acknowledged in philosophy (as it was
the adults who are more practised in it and who are in Ancient Greece).

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With its emphasis on the giving of (good) reasons for one’s rules and attitudes. Just because most youngsters play on a
beliefs, philosophy is difficult and sometimes frustrating for smaller pitch and tend to all rush for the ball at once, tell
children (and adults!). Giving reasons doesn’t come – what them they should wait until they are older and capable of
Fox calls – ‘naturally’ and as such could cause problems in playing ‘proper’ football. On the contrary, the younger we
classrooms. Of course, it doesn’t follow that philosophical start the better, because most skills and attitudes are
enquiry shouldn’t be encouraged and indeed Fox does acquired more easily at an early age. Failure to appreciate
acknowledge many educational merits of PwC, but doubts this fact threatens to waste a golden opportunity to nurture
the ability of children to be like academic philosophers. children’s abilities and realise their potential.

Karin Murris is a Dutch philosopher who has worked

Critics often compare child philosophers with with children of all age groups. She is also an expert in
adult ones. children’s literature and her work has often been
featured in the European media. She would like to thank
Joanna Haynes for her helpful suggestions and critical
Of course, young children do not enquire philosophically comments on this article.
like academic philosophers. This statement is neither Correspondence: Dr Karin Murris, The Old School Centre,
surprising, nor exciting. Primary children don’t do Newport SA42 0TS. Email: karin@dialogueworks.co.uk
mathematics like academic mathematicians either, but they Website: www.dialogueworks.co.uk
are still taught mathematics. So, how is philosophy different
as a subject? Philosopher Richard Creel makes the following BIBLIOGRAPHY
useful distinction: Cam, Philip. (1995), Thinking Together; Philosophical Inquiry
for the Classroom. Australian English Teaching Association
‘To be sure, philosophy is an academic subject of study…but & Hale and Iremonger.
more deeply philosophy is a way of being in the world – of Creel, Richard. (2001), Thinking Philosophically; An
questioning it, interacting with it, and responding to it. Indeed, Introduction to Critical Reflection and Rational
humankind is an ongoing dialogue about the topics of Dialogue.Oxford, Blackwells.
philosophy…’ (Creel, 2001, 10) Curtis, Barry. (1985), “Wittgenstein and Philosophy for
Children”. Thinking, Vol. 5, No. 4, pp. 10 – 19.
Children can enter dialogue about such topics too, as long Donaldson, Margaret. (1978), Children’s Minds. London, Fontana.
as the context makes sense to them. Moreover, the right Eagle, Sue. (2001), “Cerebrate, Good Times, Come On”; In:
attitude for philosophy, Creel observes, has five facets: caring, Teaching Thinking, Issue 3, Spring 2001.
courage, openness, gratitude, and assertiveness (Creel, 2001, Egan, Kieran. (1988), Primary Understanding; Education in
pp. 69 – 74). The younger we start with philosophy, the more Early Childhood. London, Routledge.
likely these facets will develop and be maintained. Egan, Kieran. (1992), Imagination in Teaching and Learning;
Critics often compare child philosophers with adult ones. ages 8 – 15. London, Routledge.
But if we, for example, compare adults who have just started Egan, Kieran. (1993),“The Other Half of the Child”; In: Lipman,
doing philosophy with children who have just started, then Matthew (ed.). Thinking, Children and Education. Montclair,
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PwC paradigm is partly a criticism of academic Matthews, Gareth. (1980), Philosophy and the Young Child.
philosophy. Many regard Socrates’ view of philosophy – not Cambridge (Mass), Harvard Univ. Press.
an academic subject but a way of life – as the prime example Matthews, Gareth. (1994), The Philosophy of Childhood.
of philosophical enquiry with children. Cambridge (Mass), Harvard Univ. Press, 1994.
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interests’ (Cam, 1995, p. 13). This reconstruction should be Degree of PhD in Education. University of Hull, October 1997.
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Though there are differences, there is continuity too in skills, Frankfurt am Main, Suhrkamp.

Teaching Thinking Autumn 2001 49