KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: primary choices.
FMR. GOV. NIKKI HALEY:
We are focused on Trump. That’s the key.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Three days from now we're going to win New Hampshire.
KRISTEN WELKER:
The Republican presidential battle moves to New Hampshire after former President Donald Trump's commanding win in Iowa.
FMR. GOV. NIKKI HALEY:
Who lost the House for us? Who lost the Senate? Who lost the White House? Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Donald Trump.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Nikki Haley escalates her attacks, hoping to stop Trump’s momentum, while Ron DeSantis looks ahead to South Carolina, where the primary is still a month away.
GOV. RON DeSANTIS:
As your president, I will get the job done.
KRISTEN WELKER:
NBC News' National Political Correspondent Steve Kornacki and Chief Political Analyst Chuck Todd will preview the state of the race. My guests this morning: New Hampshire’s Republican Governor Chris Sununu and Democratic Senator Maggie Hassan. Plus: courtroom drama. Donald Trump urges the Supreme Court to keep his name on the primary ballot in Colorado while also arguing he should get “total immunity” from prosecution.
FMR. GOV. NIKKI HALEY:
Do you get just total freedom to do whatever you want? No.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I got so many court cases, I’ve been indicted more than Alphonse Capone.
KRISTEN WELKER:
How will the former president’s multiple trials impact his political standing? And endorsement power.
CROWD:
Donald Trump!
KRISTEN WELKER:
South Carolina Senator Tim Scott snubs Nikki Haley by endorsing Trump ahead of the New Hampshire primary.
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
We need a president who doesn’t see black or white.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News correspondent Dasha Burns, Jonathan Martin of Politico, former White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki and Lanhee Chen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution. Welcome to Sunday and a special edition of Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Manchester, New Hampshire, for the New Hampshire Republican presidential primary, this is a special edition of Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning from Manchester, New Hampshire, where just 48 hours from now, Republican voters will go to the polls to decide whether this primary race is, in effect, over, or whether Nikki Haley or Ron DeSantis can deliver the kind of comeback this state has long been known for. With her political life on the line, Haley is stepping up her attacks while President Trump appears to rule her out as a running mate.
[START TAPE]
FMR. GOV. NIKKI HALEY:
Americans aren't stupid to just believe what he says. The reality is, "Who lost the House for us? Who lost the Senate? Who lost the White House?" Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Donald Trump. Through these temper tantrums, Donald Trump is telling a whole lot of lies. But when you're dealing with the pressures of a presidency, we can't have someone else that we question whether they're mentally fit to do this. We can't.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Nikki Haley is a disaster. She is not presidential timber. Now, when I say that, that probably means that she's not going to be chosen as the vice president. All you need to know about Nikki Haley is that every globalist, liberal, Biden supporter, and Never Trumper is on her side.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And now, the Haley campaign is lowering expectations, saying she hopes to place a strong second place in what was once a must-win state for her as Governor Ron DeSantis hits single digits in New Hampshire and moves resources to South Carolina.
[START TAPE]
FMR. GOV. NIKKI HALEY:
What I want to do is be strong. We're not going to know what strong looks like until those numbers come in.
GOV. RON DESANTIS:
When South Carolina votes, I can promise you this: As the nominee, we'll sweep to victory just like we did in Florida.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Governor DeSantis had committed to appear on our broadcast but pulled out of all of his scheduled Sunday show interviews late yesterday citing a scheduling conflict. Haley is counting on independents, New Hampshire's famously undeclared voters, to give her momentum on Tuesday. I'm joined now by National Political Correspondent Steve Kornacki to break it all down. Steve, what's the state of play 48 hours out?
STEVE KORNACKI:
Well, Kristen, you mentioned it. New Hampshire with those surprise late comebacks we've seen in past primaries. There's a reason that has happened in New Hampshire, and you just mentioned it, too: independent voters. They make up a huge share of the presidential primary electorate in New Hampshire, more than you see, basically, in any other state. How big? Let's put some numbers to it right here. These are the past three competitive Republican primaries in New Hampshire. These are Republican primaries, but, look: In 2016, more than four in ten voters in that Republican primary was an independent. In 2012, 45%. In 2008, 37%. Those are awfully big numbers for a party primary. And the rule in New Hampshire has been you win the independent vote, Donald Trump did in 2016; Mitt Romney did in 2012; John McCain did in 2008, and you win New Hampshire. So, if there is going to be a surprise on Tuesday night, and that would probably be Haley more than DeSantis just based on the polling, Haley would need independent voters to come through for her. And she would need them to come through for her big, because if you just take a look at the latest polling we've seen out of New Hampshire, just this morning, a brand-new poll from the Boston Globe/NBC10/Suffolk, Donald Trump with a 19-point advantage over Nikki Haley in New Hampshire in this poll. Another recent poll from Saint Anselm in New Hampshire: a 14-point lead for Trump over Haley. So, she is now, 48 hours away, facing what looks like a double-digit deficit in New Hampshire. But those independents do loom as the wild card, because, as you can see here in both of these polls, Haley is doing much better with the independent voters than she is overall. So, the formula for Haley, obviously, is two-part here. Number one, she wants a big independent turnout. We showed you 45% back in 2012. She wants something along those lines in the Republican primary on Tuesday. But second of all, while she's doing well with independents in these polls, she's got to do a lot better, because when you talk about core Republican voters, all the polls show they are disproportionately with Trump. So, Haley, with the large independent voter population there in New Hampshire, has the opportunity to counter Trump's strength with core Republicans, but she's going to have to drive up huge numbers among independents, bigger than you're seeing in this poll, the best a Republican candidate in New Hampshire's done with independent voters, go back to 2000, John McCain. He was running against George W. Bush. He won independents 61% to 19%. I mean, it may take something on that scale for Nikki Haley if she's going to catch Donald Trump here. But we mentioned, you know, the side of the independent vote. Again, last time around, it was 42% in New Hampshire. To put this in further perspective, just Monday night – last Monday night in Iowa, independents were only 16% of that caucus electorate, one of the huge differences between New Hampshire and Iowa. There are others. Remember, Iowa, majority evangelical on the Republican side. In New Hampshire, much more secular, only a quarter of the Republican electorate. Look at suburban voters basically double in New Hampshire what they were in Iowa. These are groups that Haley did very well with in Iowa. This is a group she didn't do well with. You see the demographic mix here, the ideological mix in New Hampshire, much more favorable to Haley. It just screams if she's going to get a win on the board and make this a race, this is the state to do it in, because where do things go from where? Well, let's say Haley were to get a win in New Hampshire and get a bunch of momentum, it goes to her home state. On paper, you'd think that's good news for her. But look at the makeup of South Carolina. You go right back to 72% evangelical. You have fewer moderates than in New Hampshire, far fewer independent voters. That mix in South Carolina looks more like Iowa than it does like New Hampshire, so that would be – we're jumping ahead here, but if Haley can get a monster number from independents and pull the surprise in New Hampshire, she could extent the race to her home state. But then, she would have to do something in South Carolina so far we haven't seen her doing, and that's expand that appeal beyond independents, beyond suburbanites, beyond moderate, and get into that core base in the Republican Party that likes Donald Trump, Kristen, has been resistant to Nikki Haley so far.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We will be watching those independent voters very closely. Steve Kornacki, fascinating stuff. Thank you so much.
STEVE KORNACKI:
You've got it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is the Republican Governor of New Hampshire, Chris Sununu. Governor Sununu, welcome back to Meet the Press.
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
You bet. Thanks for having me on.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Happy primary weekend.
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
It's exciting.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It is.
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
There's energy, there's momentum. It's crazy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
There sure is. I want to talk to you about that, and I want to talk to you about the expectations game. When you first came out, you endorsed Nikki Haley, you set the expectations pretty sky-high. I want to play –
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
Sure.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– some of what you were saying about a month ago.
[START TAPE]
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
If everyone that wants to vote and can vote, gets out and vote, Nikki doesn't just win. She wins in a landslide. There's no doubt Nikki Haley's going to win this thing in – in a landslide here in New Hampshire. In New Hampshire I think she can win. There's no question about it.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And now you are saying a strong second place showing would be, quote, "Great." So what changed, Governor?
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
It would be great. But no, I think she still can win. There's no doubt about it. But everything Nikki's trying to do is build on the momentum from Iowa, 2% to 20%, build on even more momentum here. The fact that she's knocked all the other candidates out, nobody thought that was possible. But she's really knocked everybody out, even Ron. I mean, he's in it, but he's not really in it. It's a Haley-Trump race. I've always said you wanted a one-on-one race going into Super Tuesday. I think Super Tuesday's probably where you actually have to – have to start winning states. But as long as the momentum keeps building into her home state, that's an amazing opportunity to turn this thing around.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But you've have – you’ve softened, though, those expectations. You're saying she can win. Does she have to win? Is this make or break for her to stay in this race?
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
No. No. She doesn't have to win. I mean, look, nobody goes from single digits in December to "you absolutely have to win" in January. I think that's a media expectation that's being set out there. The fact that it can happen at all, right? Trump said he was going to run the table and win all 50 states. And everyone said, "Yep, it's a – it's a done deal." It's not a done deal. She's challenging him here, and now she, again, gets to go to her home state where she's won a lot before, she knows how to do it on the ground. And people don't realize that South Carolina isn't next week. It's three or four weeks, you know away, and Nikki's going to have a lot of time to build on the momentum she's already created.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let's talk about momentum. Because of course, as you know, South Carolina Senator Tim Scott, who Nikki Haley appointed, has now endorsed Donald Trump. He’s got momentum from that. He’s got momentum coming out of Iowa. Can Nikki Haley win her home state?
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
Of course. Tim Scott doesn't matter. Look, endorsements from the U.S. –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Even though Trump has a double-digit lead?
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
Of course. Because Trump had a 35 point lead here, then that's completely shrunk. I mean, there were polls two weeks ago that had almost neck-and-neck. So you don't really know what's – what's going to happen. New Hampshire always looks forward. We always want the next generation of leadership. We always want the next big idea. So we're not Iowa, right? Iowa had, what, 56,000 people voted for Trump? 56,000 people out of over three million, that's going to dictate the Republican choice for president? I don't think so. You got to let this thing play out.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You say New Hampshire is not make or break, but if Haley can't win in her home state can she continue in this race? What's her path if she can't win South Carolina?
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
Yes, look, that's – that's a month away. I'm, to be honest, not even looking at that. Right now I'm looking at the next 72 hours. We're going like gangbusters. She's crisscrossing the state, she's hitting every voter, she's going everywhere, she's talking to everybody, and no one else is doing that. She's the only one really campaigning the right way here. You know, Trump flies in, he does his – well it wasn't even that big of a rally. The guy had to curtain off half of the stadium so it didn't look empty, and then flies out of here. So she's just doing it a fundamentally different way.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just to put a fine point on this, if she doesn't win South Carolina, is she going to need to take a hard look at her campaign, and potentially reassess being in this race?
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
I think after every state you look at your campaign, obviously. But that's a month away. I mean, it's really a month away. Nothing – everyone's focused on trying to get out the vote. And if we can get the vote out, as I said in those clips, the more people that vote, the better chance she has of winning. And they're already predicting a record turnout here.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's talk about what Nikki Haley's saying. She's really stepped up her rhetoric against former President Trump, who seemed at a rally to confuse Nikki Haley with the former House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi. I want to play that clip, get your reaction on the other side.
[START TAPE]
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
By the way, they never report the crowd on January 6th. You know, Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley, you know they – do you know they destroyed all of the information, all of the evidence, everything? Deleted and destroyed all of it, all of it. Because of lots of things, like Nikki Haley is in charge of security. We offered her 10,000 people, soldiers, National Guards, whatever they want.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Setting aside the fact that everything he said there was factually incorrect, including the fact that Nancy Pelosi –
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
Setting that aside.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– is not in charge of security at the Capitol, and she wasn't on January 6th. But Nikki Haley has said, "This is yet another moment that raises more questions about whether Trump is mentally fit to serve." Do you think Donald Trump is mentally fit to serve as president?
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
Look, whether it’s Joe Biden or Donald Trump, either one – either one, get off the teleprompter, they can barely make a cogent point. I mean, really –
KRISTEN WELKER:
So is Trump mentally fit? You're saying he's not?
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
Not in that moment, he sure as heck wasn't. I mean, look, the point is you have two nearly 80-year-olds fighting this thing out. That's not what America wants. That is a great example of, this is not Donald Trump, the disruptor of 2016. This guy has lost his fastball. You know, that's a great example of it. We always want to go forward in America, right? We always want that next generation. Neither of these guys represent the next generation.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As you probably heard this week, Donald Trump argued that a president has to have, quote, "total immunity from prosecution, even for things that cross the line," including, as his lawyers argued in court recently, for killing political rivals. This is what he said at a rally in New Hampshire last night about that.
[START TAPE]
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
You're going to give the president – you’re going to have to allow a president, any president, to have immunity so that that president can act, and do what he feels, and what his group of advisors feel is the absolute right thing. Otherwise you're going to have presidents that are totally impotent. And we've had enough of them already. We've had enough of them already. So having immunity is so important, and I hope the Supreme Court has the courage to do that.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you agree? Should a president have total immunity, even for things that cross the line?
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
Of course not. The amazing thing about that clip is he was dead serious. He wasn't even making one of his ridiculous jokes. He was dead serious about that. And that should give everybody – I don't care what political party you're from, whether you're an extreme conservative or a socialist liberal – everybody should be concerned with that type of mentality going into the White House.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And yet, you are saying if he is the nominee that you are going to support him. How can you say that you'll support him, given that you disagree with that statement –
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
Look, at the end of the day, I think most Republicans are going to get behind the Republican nominee. I'm hoping that it's obviously Nikki Haley. This is how bad Joe Biden is. Six months ago Trump couldn't beat Biden. This is how bad Joe Biden is. Inflation is crushing middle and low income families across the country. We're – we’re weak on the international stage. We haven't secured our border. Even Democrats have agreed that – that he's been completely incompetent and not on the ball there, so to say. So this is where we've come, where Joe Biden is so bad that even folks would get behind Donald Trump.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And yet you're saying that the comments by Donald Trump, everyone should be worried about that. You have said earlier that Trump's rhetoric and actions contributed to the January 6th insurrection. How can you support someone who you believe contributed to the insurrection?
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
We're – we’re here in New Hampshire in the first nation primary. No one's really thinking about the general election right now. If you want to beat Donald Trump, it has to happen at the ballot box. Don't sit on your couch, don't wait for it to happen. Don't wait for some external factor or court case to take over. You have to get out and vote, whether you're undeclared, Republican. Getting that vote out is how you beat it. That's democracy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But despite all of these comments, despite his comments on immunity, despite what you said about the insurrection, you would still vote for Donald Trump in a general election against Joe Biden?
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
Well, according to the polls, most of America would. This is how – I mean, this is what you guys don't report on. This is how bad Biden has been. This is how incompetent he's been. The guy can barely get off the stage. Nobody wants what – what is currently, and everybody is scared of a President Kamala Harris.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you believe that former President Trump would follow the Constitution if he were reelected to a second term?
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
My sense is, if – if – if he were in – in –in there in a second term, you know, not a whole lot is going to happen. Because nobody's going to be willing to work with him –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you think he would follow the Constitution?
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
I would hope so.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But you’re really not confident that he would follow the Constitution? You're hopeful, but not confident?
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
I would say that about any president. I would hope so. I'd hope Joe Biden would, I would hope any of them would. Yes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay, all right. Governor Sununu, very quickly before I let you go, are you confident there's going to be record turnout, as you're predicting, on Tuesday?
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
I am. I think the weather's going to be pretty good. We'll get a little flurries. It doesn't really push us back there, 38°. But as I said in those quotes, I really believe it: the more that come out, the better chance we have of beating him at the ballot box. And that's the only way to do it. The voters decide who's going to be the nominee. Not the media, not Chris Sununu, not even Nikki Haley. It's the voters, and that's the best process.
KRISTEN WELKER:
On that, we all agree. We'll leave it there.
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
You bet.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Governor Sununu, thank you so much for joining us.
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Great to see you. We really appreciate it. New Hampshire's secretary of state is predicting that just 88,000 Democrats will participate in the primary after the state was stripped of its official first-in-the-nation status. Twenty one Democratic candidates will appear on the ballot. But President Joe Biden will not be one of them.
[START TAPE]
STATE REP. AL HOWARD:
I'm not happy about it. I think that, you know, as a New Hampshire resident, you know, disregarding, essentially, our primary because it's written in state law was not a good look.
WALTER KING:
It was very disappointing, extremely disappointing that he wasn't on the ballot.
STATE REP. LUZ BAY:
I will probably never understand or agree with the ruling of the DNC, but we are where we are. We're first in the nation.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Joining me now is New Hampshire Democratic Senator Maggie Hassan. Senator Hassan, welcome to Meet the Press. Thank you for being here.
SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN:
Thanks so much for being here, to the whole team.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, we are thrilled to be here in this beautiful state. Let me ask you about the stakes of the New Hampshire primary. If Trump wins on Tuesday night, is the primary effectively over? Will the general election have begun, in your eyes?
SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN:
Well, what we're seeing on the ground in New Hampshire right now is the passion and commitment to democracy that is one of the hallmarks of our state. So even though the DNC made a terrible decision, we see strong energy for a write-in Joe Biden campaign, because Joe Biden has done what Independent voters in New Hampshire have asked, which is worked across the aisle to deliver important bipartisan results to the people of our country.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to delve into the Democratic happenings, in just a moment. But to this point about what you're watching for on the Republican side, if Trump wins, from the perspective of Democrats, is this primary over? Are you officially, then, running against Trump in a general election?
SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN:
Look, Trump is very likely to win the nomination from everything we're seeing. But,I think people need to be really clear here: regardless of which Republican wins the nomination – whether it is Haley, or DeSantis or Trump – they are all committed to rolling this country backwards, to undermining democracy. So you look at President Trump, who advocates violence. He just did it in New Hampshire, in Claremont a few weeks ago, calling opponents, "Vermin," advocating violence. He encouraged violence on January 6th. He's an election denier. He brags about appointing the Supreme Court justices, who have rolled back critical rights for America's women. And yet, Nikki Haley says she's voting for him. Ron DeSantis says he's voting for him. So, what we have is a group of Republicans who are all aligned with Donald Trump, would all undermine our democracy and ignore the rule of law.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's talk about what is happening on the Democratic side. You have said, as you just reiterated here, that it was a mistake to allow South Carolina to be the first primary – something that the DNC, President Biden opted for. Now, President Biden is not on the ballot. Twenty-one other names are. There's a write-in campaign on his behalf, as you just referenced. His primary challenger, Dean Phillips, said this about him on Saturday. Take a look.
[START TAPE]
REP. DEAN PHILLIPS:
I can't even believe it, but the president of the United States is not on the ballot. So if you're not going to be on the ballot – if he wrote you off, why would you write him in?
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Does Dean Phillips have a point? What's your response?
SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN:
Well, first of all, I love our friends in South Carolina, and it's always been very important that we have an early primary window that reflects the diversity – racially, demographically, geographically – of our country. But here's what's unique about New Hampshire: we have a governing system, largest state legislature in the country, highly citizen-driven, citizen-led volunteer governance. And that is why we passed a law that said we would go first, because we were the first state to actually have citizens directly choose their presidential nominees back in 1952. So, all of that is why we offer something unique: our capacity to vet candidates and to give them a wide range of experiences in a small state. It's an equalizer. Now, President Biden--
KRISTEN WELKER:
To the point that Dean Phillips is making, though--
SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN:
President Biden - what you're seeing is huge energy for a write-in campaign for President Biden, even though he made the misguided decision because we know what's at stake. We know that another Trump presidency undermines the rule of law and our democracy and rolls back rights.
And so, and we know what President Biden's record is. We've had bipartisan accomplishments: whether it's getting veterans the critical healthcare they need, whether it's the infrastructure law, or whether it's making sure we're investing in American manufacturing and keeping our country safe. So, at the end of the day, that's what the choice is and that's what New Hampshire Democrats know, and that's why we're seeing really good energy on the ground for a write-in campaign.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You know, Dean Phillips is also calling President Biden a threat to democracy because of his age, noting that he's struggling against Trump in the polls. Do you think that President Biden is the strongest and best candidate to take on former President Trump, if he is the nominee?
SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN:
Look, what I would say to anybody who, like Dean Phillips, is “This is what the stakes are in this election.” Another Trump presidency will undermine our democracy. He is telling us that he doesn't believe in the rule of law. He believes he's above the rule of law. He is telling us that he would continue to erode individual rights. And meanwhile, Joe Biden has a record of accomplishment. And what you're seeing –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is he the strongest candidate, though, to take on Trump, if he's the nominee?
SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN:
Look, we will be talking about his record. We have more work to do, to be sure. Things are too expensive, especially housing and healthcare –
KRISTEN WELKER:
That's not a yes, Senator, respectfully. Do you think President Biden –
SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN:
I think President Biden has the strongest record to run on that we've seen in a very long time in this country. I think there is a lot of anxiety in this country about prices. That's why we need to continue the work that we've done. But in addition to doing the bipartisan work, President Biden and Democrats have stood up to Big Pharma, for instance, to lower prescription drug prices.
We are investing in clean energy and helping Granite Staters lower their energy costs. So, at the end of the day, this is about a choice between a president with a proven bipartisan track record – putting politics aside, doesn't care what people say about him, doesn't care what they're saying about his age – and he's getting the work done, with a bipartisan coalition. That's what the people of New Hampshire always tell me they want.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, let me ask you about a big issue that is looming over the 2024 race. It's a big topic on Capitol Hill right now: The issue of the border. President Biden said, just this week, that the
border hasn't been secure in ten years. Do you agree with him?
SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN:
The border is in crisis. And I have--
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is it secure?
SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN:
I have long been saying we need to improve security. It's not where it needs to be.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, it's not secure?
SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN:
It's not as secure as it needs to be, to be sure.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Given that, should President Biden strike a deal with Republicans, even if it means giving up some of what Democrats want on issues of asylum and parole?
SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN:
We have been urging our Republican colleagues now for the last couple of months, and before that for a long time, to come to the table and strike a bipartisan deal on the border and immigration. The Biden Administration, along with Senate Democrats and House Democrats back in the last Congress, actually increased our investment in border security. We need them to come to the table and compromise and get this done.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And just finally, is President Biden going to win the write-in campaign?
SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN:
Write-in campaigns are really tough. But we are feeling really good about what we're seeing on the ground here.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is that a yes?
SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN:
I think that that is very likely. But, again, write-in campaigns are tough. But that's why it's so important to Democrats and Independents, given the stakes in this election, to go to the polls on Tuesday, go down the list, fill in the circle for write-in, and write in Joe Biden's name, because this is the president who has gotten bipartisan results, and knows there's more work to do and knows how to get more results. Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Senator Hassan, thank you so much. Great to see you in person.
SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN:
Nice to see you, too.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Really appreciate it.
SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And when we come back, Chuck Todd is here with a preview of what to watch in the primary. And he joins me, next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. For more on what to watch here in the final 48 hours and on Tuesday night, I'm joined by my colleague, NBC News Chief Political Analyst Chuck Todd. Chuck, great to see you again here in New Hampshire.
CHUCK TODD:
It's good to be here.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Here we go –
CHUCK TODD:
We're searching for the energy, though, jeez.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You don't feel it on the ground here –
CHUCK TODD:
You don't. You don't. It is. This is unlike any supposedly competitive New Hampshire primary we've had, certainly since I've been doing this professionally.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, well, I want to talk about the past and the present. To set it up, I want to just remind folks New Hampshire is the place for comebacks. Let's remind everyone what that looks like.
[START TAPE]
GOV. BILL CLINTON:
New Hampshire tonight has made Bill Clinton the comeback kid.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN:
Tonight, we sure showed them what a comeback looks like.
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON:
I have so many opportunities from this country. I just don't want to see us fall backwards.
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON:
He's very likable. I agree with that. I don't think I'm that bad.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA:
You're likable enough, Hillary.
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON:
Thank you. I appreciate that.
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON:
Let's give America the kind of comeback that New Hampshire has just given me.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, Chuck, little trip down memory lane there.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
That was then. This is now. You're already saying the enthusiasm feels different. But you've been saying a whole lot else feels different here.
CHUCK TODD:
No, it does. And, clearly, if your last name's Clinton or McCain, maybe we should plan on a comeback here. It's interesting to talk about those moments. A lot of those big comeback moments happened at rallies, debates in the final week of the campaign –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Right.
CHUCK TODD:
And Governor Haley made the decision to cancel any debates. You know, only if Donald Trump showed up. And I understand the rationale at the moment that she made that decision, but she really took away potential opportunities for her to make a last-minute case to these undeclared voters. Look, this is the last, best chance she has to create the conditions that maybe Trump is vulnerable. He's got to lose somewhere. This was the best possible place you could knock him down. And so, to not have these debates, even if they were just with DeSantis, to miss out on these opportunities, I'm shocked she is not trying to do every show that's available to her. She's not campaigning to win. She seems to be campaigning to protect something, and I don't know what that is right now.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, it's so fascinating that you raise that point, because her supporters have said they're disappointed –
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah. They're begging her to do more.
KRISTEN WELKER:
They're begging her to do more. They're begging her to get tougher against Trump. Obviously, we saw her stepped-up rhetoric, questioning whether he's mentally fit to serve. But it all is going to come down to those independent voters.
CHUCK TODD:
It is –
KRISTEN WELKER:
And we saw Steve Kornacki lay out the fact that, actually, it's quite narrow if you look at the margins. She had a pretty nice lead with the independent voters. Not anymore. I mean, the gap has closed. She's neck and neck with Trump on independent voters. Take us inside the numbers. What would she need to do to win independent voters?
CHUCK TODD:
Look, well, she needs a big turnout, all right? She needs a high turnout. She needs something closer to 300,000 total voters showing up. She needs the ratio of Republican to independent to be in the 55/45 range. When it starts to creep over 60, if it starts becoming 65/35, those are just numbers she can't win. And, look, one of the conclusions I came to after seeing Iowa, and I want to be careful here. It's one state. We had bad weather –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Right.
CHUCK TODD:
– But if the electorate truly is being reshaped the way Trump has reshaped it, there are not enough Republicans left for Haley anymore. The Republicans that were anti-Trump that were available to Ted Cruz, and Marco Rubio, and John Kasich in 2016, I don't know if they're voting in Republican primaries anymore. That is – that might be the biggest sort of change in the electorate that we've seen over the last eight years.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you take me to your article, because you talk about how Trump has basically changed the Republican Party in his own image.
CHUCK TODD:
And he's also redefined words like "conservative."
KRISTEN WELKER:
Right.
CHUCK TODD:
Whatever he's for is now what is considered conservative. Whatever the definition was in 2014 no longer applies. That's important, as well.
KRISTEN WELKER:
This is what you write, Chuck. You write, quote, "If what we saw in Iowa on Monday night is what the GOP electorate is basically going to look like nationally in 2024, and I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary, then the answer is clear. The Republican Party is Trump's party, and any challenge to it has to come from a new party on the outside as opposed to within." Has to come from outside.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, that was –
KRISTEN WELKER:
It can't happen from inside the Republican Party?
CHUCK TODD:
Look, this is what Liz Cheney's trying to figure out, right?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Right, right –
CHUCK TODD:
What is the best role for her to play to basically fix the conservative movement, right, to sort of re energize the conservative movement outside of Trump? Can you do it inside the party? I think now, no. He has remade this party right now. Another nomination makes it very difficult. So, I think if you're Liz Cheney, if you're trying to change the party, change the movement, I don't know if you can do it from the inside. We'll find out as we keep going, because, again, we've only had one state, but wow, that was a much different electorate than even what Iowa looked like eight years ago.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It sure is, particularly when you look at evangelical voters, which you break down in this great piece, as well. If you think about what's happened between Iowa and New Hampshire, one of the big pieces of news, one of the big data points is Tim Scott endorsing Former President Trump. I typically wouldn't be asking you about an endorsement, but this endorsement is significant, I think, Chuck, for its timing and for the optics of it, what it implies.
CHUCK TODD:
Sure. Well, because Tim Scott became a U.S. senator because Governor Haley uplifted then-Congressman Tim Scott to the Senate. And, granted, there was a lot of support for him, and that was where the conservative winds were blowing in that moment when she made that appointment. But, look, I go back to I think this is an indictment on the campaign that Governor Haley has run. She, you know, didn't call up Tim Scott right away after he dropped out. Whatever's going on, her South Carolina politics are not great. Is that her fault? Is that Trump outwitting her? Is that Lindsey Graham outwitting her? We can – we can dive deep, but, at the end of the day, she's not got good South Carolina politics in her favor right now. And she's not going to win the nomination if she can't win South Carolina.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, bottom line, right? It all comes down to South Carolina. Chuck, thank you so much.
CHUCK TODD:
Good to see you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Great to see you. We'll see you, of course, on election night. We'll be up late covering everything. And when we come back, does Nikki Haley still have a shot at beating Trump here in New Hampshire? The panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here. Jonathan Martin, politics bureau chief and senior political columnist for Politico; NBC News Correspondent Dasha Burns; former White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki, host of Inside with Jen Psaki; and Lanhee Chen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University. Thanks to all of you for being here in New Hampshire on this big weekend –
JEN PSAKI:
Good to be here.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– ahead of the primary. Great to see all of you. Dasha, I want to start with you. You've been covering the DeSantis campaign. As we said at the top of the show, he was scheduled to appear this morning.
DASHA BURNS:
Yep.
KRISTEN WELKER:
He didn't due to what his campaign said was a scheduling conflict. You have a deep dive inside what's happening in the campaign. You call it – or a source calls it “a total failure to launch.” What did you learn?
DASHA BURNS:
Well, look, over the course of covering this campaign, there are many stories that kind of explain why he failed to really get off the ground in the way that a lot of people expected him to. But one of those stories came to us in the final days of the Iowa caucus, and it has to do with a puzzle. Now, stay with me here. Multiple staffers from the headquarters of the DeSantis Iowa operation, their field operation run by Never Back Down, reached out to me and my producer, Abby Brooks, and said that the CEO and chairman of that organization was spending a significant amount of time in those final, critical days working on a thousand-piece jigsaw puzzle. Now, some of those staffers were – were so confused and found it so absurd that one of them actually took a photo of it and shared it with us. And the frustration was described to me, from one of them, saying that, "You know, look, staffers are putting their dedication and devotion to electing Governor DeSantis, and they come in, and the CEO and chairman of the organization is sitting there working on a puzzle for hours." Now, in a comment to NBC News, Scott Wagner, the gentleman in the picture there, tells us that it was an office puzzle. He said that it was there when they arrived, and became a sense of pride for team members, and everyone chipped in a few minutes to get it done, and – and noted his pride of the team. But, look, Kristen, the fact that, in those critical final days, one of the top people that was trying to get DeSantis elected, trying to get a win for him in Iowa was spending time working on something unrelated to the caucuses is just emblematic of the sort of mismanagement and wasted effort that a lot of the sources we talked to for this piece say plagued the team and the DeSantis campaign from the very beginning –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
It’s not ideal.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, yeah, Jonathan, pick up on that –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
It's not ideal.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– because optics matter.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Sure.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And Dasha has this deep dive into all of that –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
With the photo.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– mismanagement –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
With the art, yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Where is the DeSantis campaign on this Sunday, do you think?
JONATHAN MARTIN:
He's basically a zombie candidate at this point, okay –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
He's still in the race. He's still functioning, but he's not really still in the race, okay? And I think there's a bit of self-pity going on here, too. All of us on this panel understand how these candidates operate. He says, "I busted my behind for a year. You know, I worked hard in Iowa. And, boy, I came in second there, not her. Why should I have to get out when she was the one in third in Iowa and I was in second? She should quit, not me." There's a – there's a sort of stages of grief element to this for candidates. And I think he's in the midst of that right now, but he's got, really, nowhere to go. And he's trying to sort of play this day by day. There's no press for him in South Carolina, so he says, "Turn the plane around, go back to New Hampshire for the final 48 hours in New Hampshire." But to what end? What's he going to get here vote-wise? Not a lot. Probably six or, you know, seven points at the very most.
JEN PSAKI:
I mean, I've never done a jigsaw puzzle on a campaign. I've done three presidential campaigns. I'm sure you'd say the same thing.
LANHEE CHEN:
I have never done one, either.
JEN PSAKI:
I think just to echo what Jonathan was saying, I mean, the challenge is these candidates all think they can be president, and commander-in-chief, and leader of the free world. It's very hard to get to the point where you drop out. For DeSantis, he is young. He has alluded to this possibility that people who are Trump supporters are telling him they want him to run in 2028. Dasha can tell us if that's actually true –
DASHA BURNS:
– He said that to me in an interview. The first interview he did after Iowa was with us, and he gave me an anecdote where he said, "A voter came up to me and said, 'Hey, I'm voting for Trump, but I'll vote for you next time.'"
DASHA BURNS:
He doesn't – he shared that –
JEN PSAKI:
But can you get out gracefully? Now, everybody can argue –
KRISTEN WELKER:
That's the question –
JEN PSAKI:
We can discuss it on this panel, "Is he a 2028 good candidate for the Republicans?" I don't think a lot of people would say yes. But he's young. He could have a political future maybe. How do you get out gracefully?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Lanhee?
LANHEE CHEN:
What is most striking to me is how different of a Republican Party it is in this 2024 New Hampshire primary as the, you know, 2012, when I was up here a lot for Mitt Romney –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
The stone age.
LANHEE CHEN:
Yeah. Some – some would say better times.
JEN PSAKI
The good old days.
LANHEE CHEN:
But I do think it reflects the fact that you have these candidates who could be tremendously impactful in Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley, and yet, they're having these issues because the party, fundamentally, has changed. It's Donald Trump's party now.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to talk a little bit about what we're hearing from Donald Trump as it relates to Nikki Haley. Both of them are sharpening their attacks. But, Lanhee, we've seen these attacks from Trump attacking Nikki Haley's race, her ethnicity, including mocking her birth name, spreading false birther conspiracy theories about whether she's eligible to run. Of course, she is. Lanhee, does this resonate? Does it backfire?
LANHEE CHEN:
Well, I mean, it resonates with – with some people. I mean, obviously, I think, to this point about the Republican Party being different, the base of the Republican Party that Donald Trump needs to be the nominee, there is some responsiveness, clearly. Otherwise, he wouldn't be doing it, right?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
LANHEE CHEN:
Now, you can make all sorts of arguments about, "Well, this is just who he is." But it's a political calculation, at some level. It is a political calculation. But this is how you appeal to those voters that you need –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Right.
LANHEE CHEN:
And, by the way, it seems to have worked in Iowa, and it may work here in New Hampshire –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Jen?
JEN PSAKI:
I mean, look, you can't teach an old dog new tricks, as they say. Donald Trump is a bit of an old dog, and he has used this playbook before –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yes, he has, against Obama –
JEN PSAKI:
– against Obama.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– your former boss.
JEN PSAKI:
I remember that well. He used it against Obama. It took us a moment to realize we had to fight back on that. Actually, we shared the birth certificates in the press briefing room. He also did it to Ted Cruz. He's doing this because he's made a bet –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Yeah.
JEN PSAKI:
– politically that it works, that a good base of the party responds to this.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
It appeals to Republican hard-core. But, you know what? This is New Hampshire. And you've heard this a thousand times. You'll hear it a thousand more times in the next two days. The key block here are the unaffiliated voters. And if you combine Trump race baiting Nikki Haley's name; Trump having a senior moment the other night, confusing her and Pelosi; and then, Trump saying last night, "You know what? America can use a strong man. And, by the way, presidents should be above the law." If you combine all those four things and put those things in the New Hampshire basket, like, that is rocket fuel for the kind of Volvo and Patagonia crowd here that shows up and pulls either party's ballot every four years. They're going to come to vote against Trump by voting for Nikki Haley.
DASHA BURNS:
Well, at the same time, neither of these other candidates, Haley nor DeSantis, ever found their footing when it came to Donald Trump.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And how to attack him.
DASHA BURNS:
And how to attack him. I mean, multiple sources I talked to said, out of the gate, he fumbled. When he talked about Stormy Daniels and, you know, "I don't know what it's like to have an affair with a porn star," and then walked it back, and never quite found his way back, and then wound up pushing to the right of Trump, which one source said –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Yeah.
DASHA BURNS:
– you know, in some ways, when he tried to go to the right of Trump, he undermined his own electability argument and, in some ways, made Trump, actually, a little bit more electable, especially with the abortion issue –
LANHEE CHEN:
Not a new problem. Not a new problem –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
LANHEE CHEN:
– by the way, in the Republican Party.
JEN PSAKI:
No.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And it's a great point, because the moderates were the voters for the taking. Such great points. Fireworks in this first panel, but we have another panel, so no worries. We have much more. When we come back, voters in New Hampshire have helped deliver some remarkable campaign comebacks, as we were discussing, over the years. We look back at yet another one in our Meet the Press Minute. That's next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. New Hampshire has always liked an underdog. After being written off after a fourth-place finish in Iowa, Arizona Senator John McCain joined Meet the Press days before the New Hampshire primary in 2008 and talked about Granite State voters.
[START TAPE]
SEN. JOHN McCAIN:
It's all out these last 24 hours, 48 hours. And a lot of voters in New Hampshire, we all know, make up their minds in the last few hours or even when they go into the ballot booth, so we've still got a lot of work to do. And here in New Hampshire, people, frankly, don't mind it if you disagree with them as long as they think that you're telling them the truth. And that's the beauty of the town hall meeting here. We had – we had our hundredth town hall meeting there yesterday in Peterborough, and it was well attended, and we had some very spirited exchanges. I think – I think that's what the people of New Hampshire want.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, as you may remember, McCain pulled off an improbable comeback in New Hampshire and went on to win the Republican nomination. When we come back, President Biden's name is not on the ballot for Tuesday's primary. Was that a mistake? We'll have much more with the panel next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And welcome back. The panel is still here. We talked about the Republicans. Let's talk about the Democrats now. And Jen, I will start with you on that. I thought it was interesting when I was interviewing Senator Hassan, she didn't say, "Yes, we're confident we're going to win this write-in campaign.” She said, "We're hopeful, and it's hard." Could it hurt President Biden optically if he doesn't have a strong showing here and could it hurt him in the general that they've moved South Carolina up in the map?
JEN PSAKI:
Well, it's all an expectations game on this, right? There are no delegates. We're not in the general election quite yet, although we could be very soon. So, that could be a headache for the Biden campaign for several days, if not longer, if he doesn't do okay. Now, how do you define "okay”? It's all about expectations. But write-in campaigns are hard. They have been done successfully by candidates, on both sides of the aisle. They're difficult. What I will say that's kind of interesting about the dynamics in New Hampshire is that – and part of it's the demographics, certainly, in the state – these races are neck and neck and Biden is behind in a number of swing states. Not in New Hampshire, as it relates to Trump. He is ahead of Trump in New Hampshire. Demographics are good for him, but he is also likely benefiting from the Republican primary being run here and the attack ads against Trump here, because it's reminding people of what's at stake.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Lanhee, what about that and how closely are Republicans watching what's happening now and potentially aiming to capitalize on some of these divisions within the Democratic Party?
LANHEE CHEN:
Well, look. I think it reinforces the notion that Biden is running a little bit of a Rose Garden-style campaign, right? The fact that there isn’t – that he didn't appear on the ballot here. The fact that he has not been out there more. I think for Republicans it plays to form, right? And the challenge, ultimately, I think this is going to ultimately come down to what the economy looks like, whether they get something done on immigration and the economic indicators tend to lag. So the fact that the economy is improving now may end up benefiting the president when we get to the fall. But those are ultimately going to be the biggest factors. They always have been. But I think Joe Biden needs to get out there a little bit more.
JEN PSAKI:
I would say that the biggest challenge for the Biden campaign right now is that there is a surprising number of people who aren't certain that Trump is going to be the nominee, right? That is what they see as one of the biggest challenges.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But the Biden campaign. They’ve decided –
JEN PSAKI:
They do. This is counterintuitive to what normally happens. Normally, you want the Republicans to fight it out and spend money. They want to run against Trump because they feel that is the best contrast to be drawn.
LANHEE CHEN:
You have a lot of Republicans who aren't sure Joe Biden's going to be the nominee.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
I mean, it's the great – it’s the great irony of our time. Every Democrat in the country – and plenty who aren't Democrats – do believe Donald Trump is a threat to American democracy. From a raw political standpoint though, the Democratic Party privately is like doing a rain dance every day hoping that Donald Trump is the nominee because they know he is a better candidate for them in the general than Nikki Haley would be. So it's going to be fascinating to watch this unfold. How aggressively does the Biden campaign, let's say, go to South Carolina? Do they try to turn out those independents in South Carolina who could vote down there, by the way, to keep them out of the Republican primary? That'll be fascinating.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It will be fascinating. It’s the issue of democracy, Jonathan, as you say. It is the economy as well. Senator Bernie Sanders had this warning for President Biden, and this is in a recent article: "Bernie Sanders, America's leading progressive politician, has issued a stark warning to Joe Biden at the start of the presidential election year: be more aggressive in addressing the anxieties of millions of struggling voters, or risk handing back the White House to the anti-democratic demagogue Donald Trump.” Dasha, I know you have been talking to voters in Erie, Pennsylvania who have echoed that concern.
DASHA BURNS:
Yep. Huge, huge warning signs for the Biden campaign there. Look, the economy by all accounts—you can look at the data—it's doing well. And I've posed this to voters when I was talking to them there. I said, "Look, wages are going up. Unemployment is down. The stock market's doing well. But how do you feel about the economy?" And no one, no one I talked to gave me a positive answer. And they are frustrated, both Democrats and Republicans – and I'm not talking like hardcore Trump Republicans. They feel that the Biden administration touting how good the economy is when they don't feel it is out of touch and they feel kind of slapped in the face a little bit. And if you don't acknowledge people's feelings –
LANHEE CHEN:
That's right.
DASHA BURNS:
– like, that's not –
KRISTEN WELKER:
It’s the course correction that a lot of Democrats are asking for.
JEN PSAKI:
Campaigns are won and lost –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Exactly that.
JEN PSAKI:
– I think we would agree on this, on how you make people feel.
LANHEE CHEN:
Absolutely.
JEN PSAKI:
Not on data. Not on numbers.
LANHEE CHEN:
Not on Bidenomics.
JEN PSAKI:
Not on spreadsheets. So this is where the contrast point with Trump, they think, will be helpful to them. We will see. Because it is about, "I am fighting for you. He is not fighting for you." It's not about the data numbers, because people don't want to be told how they feel about the economy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
That's right. Right.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
I had a prominent Democrat very close to Joe Biden tell me yesterday, "We’ve got to get to populism. We've got to attack Trump as a tool of Wall Street. We've got to hit him head on. The big business crowd is never going to like Joe Biden, they're never going to be for us, and we have to go back to populism." And this is hard for folks to accept, but the populism attack is more effective than the January 6 line of attack. The folks concerned about American democracy, guess what? They're voting for Joe Biden this fall. They're already there.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All about the economy.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Populism I think’s the key.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right.
LANHEE CHEN:
It's where the American electorate is. They want a fighter –
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right.
LANHEE CHEN:
– and they want someone who can really speak to those issues, particularly on the economy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Fantastic panel. Thank you all so much. Before we go, do not miss our special coverage of the New Hampshire primary Tuesday night, beginning at 6 p.m. Eastern on NBC News Now and Peacock. And that is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. We'll be back next week, because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.