KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: border battle.
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
The border is a catastrophe.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
We have a broken immigration system.
KRISTEN WELKER:
A bipartisan border security bill that would help fund the wars in Ukraine and Israel faces an uncertain future.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Any Republican that signs it should be ashamed of himself.
SEN. THOM TILLIS:
If we ultimately fail on the border policy, we will live to regret it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Will House Republicans kill the bill? And is their push to impeach Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas just fueling partisan divisions?
REP. KEN BUCK:
It’s not an impeachable offense. This is a policy difference.
KRISTEN WELKER:
My exclusive guest this morning: Speaker of the House Mike Johnson. Plus: fighting back. The U.S. military launches retaliatory strikes against Iran-backed militants after a drone attack killed three American service members inside Jordan.
SEC. LLOYD AUSTIN:
They have a lot of capability. I have a lot more.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Does this proxy war with Iran risk turning into a direct conflict? I’ll talk to National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan. And: trailing Trump.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
We now have, in large part because of you and organized labor, the strongest economy in the whole damn world.
KRISTEN WELKER:
The economy is roaring back, but voters aren’t willing to give President Biden credit as his approval rating hits a new low, and he is now trailing Donald Trump by 5 points. Steve Kornacki will have the results of our new NBC News poll. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Senior Washington Correspondent Hallie Jackson, Sam Jacobs – editor-in-chief of Time, Ramesh Ponnuru of the National Review and Symone Sanders-Townsend, former chief spokeswoman for Vice President Kamala Harris. Welcome to Sunday. It’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. We begin with our brand-new NBC news poll, which brings more warning signs for President Biden and his reelection campaign. One of our pollsters tells us we are looking at a quote, "presidency in peril." With the general election just nine months away, President Biden has declined on every measure since 2020, is struggling with key elements of his base, and now trails former President Donald Trump by wide margins on the issues voters say are most important to them. Joining me now to take us through the numbers is National Political Correspondent Steve Kornacki. Steve, these are some truly stunning numbers.
STEVE KORNACKI:
They really are, Kristen. And let's just start with the bottom line. When you ask folks, "Hey, if it's the general election and it's Trump versus Biden," in our poll, Donald Trump now leads Joe Biden by five points. Compare that to the last time we polled back in November: Trump was ahead then, but it was only by two points. It's even more significant when you look at it this way: Over time, we have been testing for five years now, going back to 2019, a Biden-Trump matchup. Remember, 2019, 2020, Joe Biden led. He led big in every single one of our polls. For the first time, in November, Donald Trump pulled ahead in our poll. And now, at five points, this is the biggest lead NBC has ever had in 16 polls for Donald Trump over Joe Biden. And, of course, undergirding all of this is this question of he is the incumbent, Joe Biden. We asked voters, "What do you think of the job he's doing?" And look at that, Kristen: 37% approve, and now 60% disapprove.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And we should say that is the lowest approval rating since former President George W. Bush's second term.
STEVE KORNACKI:
Yeah, and it's – put that in further context, too. Bush in his second term wasn't running for reelection. Here's the presidents who were running for reelection in our poll. Starting their reelection year, what was their approval rating? Bush was over 50%. He won. Obama was almost at 50%. He won. Trump four years ago was 46%. He lost. Look how low Biden's number is compared to those predecessors at this point.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Their numbers, all much bigger than President Biden –
STEVE KORNACKI:
Yeah. It shows you the improvement Biden has to make here in the coming months. The issues that are driving this, too: the economy, no surprise. We've been talking about it. But look at that advantage for Trump: 22 points.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Wow.
STEVE KORNACKI:
And securing the border, here, folks say very important: Trump with a 35-point advantage.
KRISTEN WELKER:
The economy is so striking, Steve, because jobs are up, inflation is down. Voters aren't giving him credit for that, clearly.
STEVE KORNACKI:
Yeah, there are a couple areas in here, I think, where Democrats see potential opportunities to grow Biden's support. Certainly, they are hoping the economy, folks change their perceptions of it and start rewarding Biden for it. That's what they're hoping, certainly. How about this, though, also cautionary for the White House: Go back four years ago. It was two folks in their 70s running, Biden versus Trump. And we asked then, "Do the candidates have the necessary physical, mental capacity?" And it was about even: 41-38%. Now, you ask it, 46% say that Donald Trump does. Just 23% when it comes to Joe Biden. And think of one of the central themes of Biden's campaign in 2020. He said he'd be competent. He said he'd be effective. Folks said they believed that in our poll in 2020, one of the big reasons Trump lost. But now, complete, total reversal: 48% say Trump competent and effective. Barely a third say that for Biden.
KRISTEN WELKER:
That's right. He said he was going to bring stability back to the White House.
STEVE KORNACKI:
And now, he's the incumbent, and folks are maybe looking at him and maybe looking at Trump as not the incumbent in a different light here. Just a couple other things to get through. On the foreign policy, again, Israel-Hamas center stage in, you know, in the world picture right now. Overall, big disapproval for Biden on foreign policy, particularly on Israel-Hamas. That's particularly acute among the youngest voters, 18 to 34-year-olds. We have been tied Trump versus Biden, and a lot of those Biden voters 18 to 34, they say they don't like Biden. They just don't like Trump more.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's this type of erosion among these key groups that really worries Democrats.
STEVE KORNACKI:
And it is the area, too, we say where Democrats think there might be opportunity. They think they can get more young voters motivated to vote maybe not by being for Biden but by being against Trump. This is one area they think they can improve on and maybe make this race a little different. But the other to key in on, too, independents, Trump will get that with a 19-point advantage. Also keep in mind, that shows you a lot of independents look very open to, potentially, another choice if something were to emerge. Also, among white voters, Trump with a big lead. Black voters, Biden with a big lead. But want to point this one out: Hispanic voters.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Wow.
STEVE KORNACKI:
Trump with a one-point advantage. We've been asking, "Would those gains he made four years ago stick?" Our polls suggest they certainly have, and they've maybe grown. And we did ask this question, Kristen. "If one of these cases this year ends in a conviction, a felony conviction for former President Trump, would that change your vote?" Forty-five percent said in that scenario, they'd vote for Biden. Forty-three percent for Trump. This is also something the Biden campaign, obviously hoping for, although there's a long history is polling of asking folks about hypotheticals –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
STEVE KORNACKI:
– and them actually reacting a little differently when it actually happens.
KRISTEN WELKER:
A little bit of a game changer but still incredibly close.
STEVE KORNACKI:
Very.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Steve Kornacki, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. We want to turn now to the Middle East. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is traveling to the region today, his fifth trip there focused on high-stakes diplomatic talks. It comes after the U.S. helped launch strikes against Houthi targets in Yemen overnight and after it bombed 85 targets in Syria and Iraq Friday, retaliation for a drone attack that killed three U.S. service members stationed in Jordan. Syria has called the strike a blatant air aggression. Iraq says they're a violation of Iraqi sovereignty. The U.S. strikes come after more than 160 attacks by Iranian-backed militias on American targets since October and just hours after the remains of those three U.S. service members killed in Jordan were returned home.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan. Welcome back to Meet the Press, Jake.
JAKE SULLIVAN:
Thanks for having me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, the United States has now launched two rounds of retaliatory strikes. Is the stated goal of deterrence against these Iranian-backed groups being accomplished? And do you have an accounting of how many people have been killed so far?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
So, the President has been very clear from the beginning: which is that when American forces are attacked, we will respond. And we've responded several times over the course of the past few months. And then when three Americans were tragically killed, the president ordered firm and serious response, which we are now – which is now underway. It began with the strikes on Friday night, but that is not the end of it. We intend to take additional strikes and additional action to continue to send a clear message that the United States will respond when our forces are attacked or our people are killed. At this point, we are still assessing the question of how many casualties there were among the militia groups. And our military will continue to provide the president with those assessments. We do believe that the strikes had good effect in degrading the capabilities of these militia groups to attack us. And we do believe that, as we continue, we will be able to continue to send a strong message about the United States' firm resolve to respond when our forces are attacked.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Jake, do you know if any civilians were killed? Do you know if any militant leaders were killed?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
We do not have, at this time, any confirmation of any civilian casualties. Our military is still looking at that. What we do know is that the targets we hit were absolutely valid targets from the point of view of containing the weaponry and the personnel that were attacking American forces. So, we are confident in the targets that we struck, and I will defer to a final analysis, the question of who was taken out among militant leaders.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about the reaction to these strikes. The House speaker, who I'm going to interview momentarily, said in a statement, quote, "Unfortunately, the administration waited for a week and telegraphed to the world, including to Iran, the nature of our response. The public hand-wringing and excessive signaling undercuts our ability to put a decisive end to the barrage of attacks endured over the past few months." What is your response to the House speaker?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
Well, I find it somewhat strange. The president made clear before we were attacked at Tower 22 in Jordan, before our brave service members were tragically killed, that if we were attacked, we would respond. So, Iran and its militia groups knew that the United States was going to respond. We also said we'd do it at a time and place of our choosing. We planned the attack. We executed the attack. We hit where we wanted to hit, when we wanted to hit it. And that was at the military advice of the president's commanders, and he gave them the order to go ahead and do it. And we think that those strikes had good effects. So, of course, there will always be armchair quarterbacks, but we are confident in the steps that we have taken so far. And we are confident in the course that we are on going forward.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is the United States already in a wider war in the Middle East, Jake?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
What the United States is doing is responding to threats as we see them with significant but proportionate force.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But has the war expanded –
JAKE SULLIVAN:
We are seeing threats to shipping, to –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– has the war expanded in the region, Jake?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
Well, first: we don't accept that what's happening in the Red Sea, for example Kristen, is entirely tied to the war in Gaza, because the Houthis are attacking shipping that has absolutely nothing to do with Israel. So, there are connections among these things, to be sure. But these are distinct threats, as well, that we need to deal with on their own basis. So, in the Red Sea, we need to deal with the threat to commercial shipping and we are doing so with a coalition of countries. In Iraq and Syria, we need to deal with threats to our troops and we are doing so including with the strikes the president ordered Friday night.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you mentioned Iraq and Syria. Let me ask you, how do you respond to Iran's foreign minister calling this a strategic mistake that will destabilize the region? Is the United States bracing for a counterattack?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
Well, I'm not a bit surprised that Iran didn't like the strikes that we took on Friday night. So, that would be par for the course. We are prepared to deal with anything that any group or any country tries to come at us with. And the President has been clear that we will continue to respond to threats that American forces face as we go forward.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Have you ruled out strikes inside Iran?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
Well, sitting here today on a national news program, I'm not going to get into what we've ruled in and ruled out from the point of view of military action. What I will say is that the president is determined to respond forcefully to attacks on our people. The president also is not looking for a wider war in the Middle East.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But is it off the table? Are strikes inside Iran off the table?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
Again, Kristen, sitting here on television, it would not be wise for me to talk about what we're ruling in and ruling out.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, you're not ruling it out?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
I'll just say the same thing one more time, which is I'm not going to get into what's on the table and off the table when it comes to the American response.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Alright. I want to turn to the war in Gaza, specifically. Secretary Blinken, as I just said, is making his fifth trip to the region today to try to get those talks to broker a ceasefire deal, the release of the remaining hostages. Could these retaliatory strikes undermine those talks, make it more difficult to secure a final deal?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
Look, ultimately, the question of whether those hostages will be released comes down to a negotiation among Israel and Hamas, backed by Egypt, Qatar and the United States. We believe that the steps that we took on Friday and the steps we took against the Houthis last night are not connected to the hostage negotiations. And we believe that now, at this point, it's up to Hamas to come forward and respond to what is a serious proposal. And we will continue to press the Qataris and the Egyptians to try to generate a positive response to that so that all of those hostages, including Kristen, American hostages, get home to their families.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you have a full accounting of how many hostages are being held and are still alive?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
You know, we've said from the beginning that, because of the nature of how Hamas operates inside Gaza, hiding behind a civilian population, burrowing into these tunnels, that we do not and cannot have a clear picture of exactly how many hostages are still alive and how many have tragically passed away. And we've learned over the course of this conflict that at least two American citizens passed away on October 7th and then – who we previously thought were hostages. So, we cannot, with any clear sense, say the exact number of hostages. But we know that there are many, and we know that it's our job, day in and day out, to try to bring them home.
KRISTEN WELKER:
On the topic of Hamas, we know that there are divisions within Hamas about this deal. One sticking point seems to be about whether this should be a six-week pause in fighting or a permanent ceasefire. What is the United States pushing for?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
Well, what we're pushing for is an outcome in which every hostage gets home, in which Hamas is no longer in charge of Gaza –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Would you like to see a permanent ceasefire?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
– and not threaten Israel in the way –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Would you like to see a permanent ceasefire today?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
Well, Kristen, everybody wants to see an end to the war. Nobody's rooting for the war to continue. But for the war to – for the war to end in a serious and sustained way, what we need to see is all the hostages coming home and Hamas no longer being able to pose a threat to Israel. That's what is necessary. Otherwise, any temporary ceasefire is going to be just that: temporary. There was a ceasefire on October 6th. Hamas broke it. So, the goal now is to get all of the hostages out and to ensure that Hamas cannot represent a threat to Israel going forward.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Speaker Johnson told his conference yesterday that the House is going to vote on a stand-alone aid package for Israel. Jake, without any spending offsets, will President Biden sign that bill if it comes to his desk?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
Look, we've been clear that we need to solve all of the major national security challenges facing the United States. That means the – supporting Israel, it means the war in Ukraine, it means the Indo-Pacific, and it means the border. And there is a bipartisan effort in the Senate underway right now to do just that. We regard the ploy – and we see it as a ploy – that's being put forward on the House side right now, as not being a serious effort to deal with the national security challenges America faces. From our perspective, the security of Israel should be sacred. It shouldn't be part of any political game. And therefore, we believe the right thing to do is to pass a comprehensive bill, and that's exactly what a bipartisan group of senators are working on as we speak.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Let me ask you, finally, Jake: Our new NBC news poll, which we were just discussing, found only 29% approve of President Biden's handling of the war in Gaza. Sixty percent disapprove of his handling of foreign policy, overall. Should the President be factoring the public's disapproval into his foreign policy decisions?
JAKE SULLIVAN:
Well, I can't speak for the American people, but I can speak for the president. And the president, every day, is working tirelessly to deal with the threats and challenges we face in the Middle East. To support Israel while trying to bring down the number of civilian casualties, to protect shipping in the Red Sea, with a coalition of more than 20 countries, and to respond to the threats against our forces, including the attack that killed three Americans. That's what he's going to continue to do in the best interests – the best national security interests of the United States.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, thank you so much for your time this morning. We really appreciate it.
JAKE SULLIVAN:
Thanks for having me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, can both parties agree on a border deal or will 2024 presidential politics prevent it? The Republican House Speaker, Mike Johnson, joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Senate negotiators are preparing to release the details of a new border security bill today. If it passes, it would be the first significant immigration reform approved by Congress in more than two decades. But even before the text of a bill has been released, former President Trump has vocally opposed it. And on Saturday the House preempted months of negotiations and proposed a stand-alone Israel aid bill setting up a showdown with the Senate. Joining me now is the Speaker of the House, Republican Congressman Mike Johnson of Louisiana who just marked 100 days on the job. Mr. Speaker, welcome to Meet the Press.
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Hey, Kristen, glad to be with you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, it's great to have you. Before we get to the border talks, I want to ask you about the Middle East. Of course you just heard me talking to the national security advisor about these rounds of retaliatory strikes which you have been critical of. I want to be very clear, though, what specifically do you want to see, Mr. Speaker? Do you want to see strikes inside Iran?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Well, I do take issue with a little bit of what Jake Sullivan just said. I listened to that interview. It was interesting. We need to make absolutely clear to Iran that nothing is off the table. You know, we maintain peace through strength. That was the Reagan Doctrine. That's what President Trump continued. And that's what we have to do right now. We should not be appeasing Iran. That's what the Biden administration has been doing for the last three years. We are projecting weakness on the world stage. And frankly, Kristen, that is why our adversaries are acting so provocatively. What we need to be doing right now is turning up the heat on Iran. We need to act to decimate the Iran Central Bank, the assets that they've held there. We need to lean on international banks to seize the assets of Iranian proxies. We need to – to put big time pressure, maximum pressure, on their oil exports. There's a lot that we could do to Iran to send a message instead of this appeasement strategy. It's just simply –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Including –
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
– not working.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– strikes, Mr. Speaker? Including strikes, just to be clear?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
It should not – it should not be off the table. Let me –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay.
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
– give you just a quick example. You know, in the Trump administration we used a drone and three missiles to take out Qasem Soleimani near Baghdad. That sent a strong message. And it quelled all of the activity there. What we're doing right now, we're using potentially hundreds of munitions to strike close to 100 targets so far. But we're not going right to the heart of the matter. I think that's a real problem.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And of course the Biden administration has argued they have launched a number of retaliatory strikes against all of those attacks. Let me ask you though about your surprise move. On Saturday, Mr. Speaker, you proposed a new stand-alone aid package to provide funding for Israel. It, of course, comes just hours before the Senate is set to unveil the details, the text of its border deal which would also include funding for Israel and Ukraine. You just heard Jake call it a ploy, a political stunt. Why not wait for the Senate to put out their bill first?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Well, let's make a couple of things clear here, Kristen. You know, we passed the support for Iran many months ago, three months ago. Immediately after I became Speaker, we sent the necessary resources there. We passed our bill on border security nine months ago. It's been sitting on Chuck Schumer's desk collecting dust ever since. The H.R. 2, which is our signature bill right out of the beginning, right out of the block, for the House Republican Conference and our Republican majority, would have solved this problem. We would resolve the broken asylum system and the broken parole system. We would re-institute Remain in Mexico which would stem the flow by probably 70%. We would end the ‘catch and release,’ the mass releases of illegals into our country that's happened.This border is out of control. All these problems have mounted. And the Senate has been dithering ever since. We cannot wait anymore. The reason we are going to send the new Israel package over is because the time is urgent. And we have to take care of that responsibility.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mr. Speaker, as you know, that bill that you passed in the House would be dead on arrival in the Senate. Your Republican colleagues in the Senate have said as much. So I guess my question is: Did you propose this stand-alone Israel aid package to kill this compromise deal in the Senate?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
No. We made very clear what the requirements of the House were. And that is to solve the problem at the border. Apparently the Senate has not been able to come to an agreement. They've been suggesting texts should be filed maybe today. But we've been told the same thing for months now. We've been awaiting their action. We cannot wait any longer. The House is willing to lead. And the reason we have to take care of this Israel situation right now is because the situation has escalated, of course. I mean, the Hamas terrorists have not relented in their attacks on Israel. We're now having of course U.S. personnel being fired upon there. And, of course, with the retaliatory strikes that are taking place, the heat has been turned up there. Israel has never been in greater need of our support. And the House is serious about that. I believe we'll pass this with a wide margin and take care of that responsibility.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As you know, though, the Senate is poised to release the bill text today, Mr. Speaker. Let's talk about what is in it. We haven't seen all of the details yet. But it is expected to speed up the asylum process, mandate DHS shut down the border during surges, and so-called ‘catch and release’ which you just mentioned, and expand migrant detentions, just to name a few of the things that it does. Will you put a bill like that on the floor for a vote given that you're saying we have to address the crisis at the border?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Well, you're addressing some of the rumors about what are in this text. It's been negotiated behind closed doors by a small handful of persons, and even most of the members of the Senate don't know what's in it. What we've also heard is in it is that there might be limits of thousands per day before retaliatory measures or any measures that have been taken place to shut down the border. But here's the essential point. The president of the United States opened the border. We documented 64 specific actions that Joe Biden and his agencies have taken to create this catastrophe. They did it intentionally. That's why his approval rating is in the tank. 60% of the people disapprove by your latest poll. The reason the presidency is imperiled as your opening monologue stated, is because this is an abject failure of leadership. The American people are done with this. The border has to be secured. The president has the authority right now. He doesn't need another act of Congress. He could do it right now. But he's unwilling to do it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As you know, the White House has completely dismissed the allegation that in any way the migrants and surge of migrants have been intentional on the part of the president. In terms of him being able to take action right now, Mr. Speaker, you know as well as I do that an executive order would only be met by legal challenges. You have a chance to do something right now. The details we laid out are not rumors. That is based on negotiators who were in the room. Were you offered a briefing on this compromise bill? And will you put it on the floor?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Well, when they began to do the negotiation, I suggested immediately after taking the gavel, I suggested to the Senate leadership that the House should be involved. We should be in the room. I wanted to send the chairman of our committees of jurisdiction to be a part of that negotiation. And they said, "No, no. Let the Senate take care of it. We'll send you something –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Were you offered –
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
– that's palatable."
KRISTEN WELKER:
– a briefing, Mr. Speaker?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
What we're hearing right now is not.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But were you offered a briefing?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
No. I have not been. No, I've had individual senators call and give me tips and offered things that are going on in the room. But we've not been a part of that negotiation. And I have been absolutely clear from day one, since literally the next morning after being handed the gavel in late October, what the functional equivalence of H.R. 2, what those are, and why that was necessary to solve the problem. I took 64 House Republicans to the border in January. We heard from the people in charge, the border patrol agents, the people there. And they said, "These are the things that you must do to stem the flow. And the reason we have the biggest immigration catastrophe, border catastrophe in U.S. history is because President Biden took these actions." I can name them for you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mr. Speaker, you –
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
He does have executive authority right now.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mr. Speaker, you talk about H.R. 2. Again, Senator Lindsey Graham, your Republican colleagues say that that stands no chance of passing through the Senate. You have an opportunity to do something right now about the situation at the border which you've been calling for new legislation on the border since you first took office. But let me ask you about Donald Trump. He said any Republican who votes for this deal should be ashamed of themselves. You've said you speak to him frequently and that you've discussed this deal with him, quote, "at length." Is Donald Trump calling the shots here, Mr. Speaker?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Of course not. He's not calling the shot. I am calling the shots for the House. That's our responsibility. And I have been saying this far longer than President Trump has. I have been saying what the requirements are to fix the problem. I don't care if they call the legislation H.R. 2 or not. What we're saying is you have to stem the flow. The president has executive authority right now. As Congress does this negotiation and the debate and the discussion, the president could stop it. Section 212(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, the Supreme Court has already acknowledged gives the president broad executive authority –
KRISTEN WELKER:
But Mr. –
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
He could – he could close the border literally overnight –
KRISTEN WELKER:
But Mr. Speaker –
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
– but he refuses to do it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– you know that former President Trump took executive action. He got tied up in the courts. Any executive action's going to get tied up in the courts. You have been calling for legislative change to actually deal with this problem. You are now the Speaker of the House. Do you not have a responsibility to your voters, to the people who put you in office, to address what you have called a crisis and a catastrophe? Isn't something better than nothing?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Kristen, we did that. We did that nine months ago. And since we passed our measure in the House to solve this problem, and the reason we had to do it, is because we saw that President Biden was not fulfilling his obligation under the law. That's why this is such a failure of leadership. But we did our part. And by the way, since then in the nine months since that bill has sat on Chuck Schumer's desk collecting dust, 1.8 million illegals have been allowed into this country, welcomed into the country, sent around the nation into every community, communities near everyone listening and watching this morning. And that is a catastrophe.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But you –
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
And the American people know it. And that's part of the reason that Joe Biden has –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Right.
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
– the lowest approval rating of any president facing re-election.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Even former President Trump though called for legislative change on this issue. You have one of the slimmest majorities in the House in history. Don't you have to compromise to get something done? What you passed in the House can't pass in the Senate, Mr. Speaker. You know that.
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
We are willing to work – we are willing to work with the Senate. I am not disclosing that. And I've been very consistent for the hundred days that I've had the gavel. We're willing to work. But they have to be serious about it. If you only do a few of those components, you are not going to solve the problem. And Kristen, that's not a Republican talking point. That's what the sheriffs at the border, the border patrol agents, the deputy chief of U.S. Border Patrol, a 33-year veteran of the agency told us. He said, "It's as though we're administering an open fire hydrant." He said, "I don't need more buckets, like the president proposed. I need to stop the flow. And we know how to do that. But Joe Biden is unwilling to do it."
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about your decision. And, by the way, Joe Biden has said he would shut down the border. He's calling for more funding. He's calling for you to pass this legislation. Let me ask you about your move to impeach Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas. You accuse him of, quote, "willful and systemic refusal to comply with the law, a breach of public trust." Mayorkas has said these claims are baseless and politically motivated. What's interesting here is that some prominent conservative legal experts who opposed Donald Trump's impeachment also oppose the impeachment of Secretary Mayorkas. This is what Jonathan Turley had to say, Mr. Speaker. He says, "There is no current evidence that he is corrupt or committed an impeachable offense. He can be legitimately accused of effectuating an open-border policy, but that is a disagreement on policy. What has not been shown is conduct by the secretary that could be viewed as criminal or impeachable." Are you impeaching Secretary Mayorkas over a policy disagreement?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Jonathan Turley is a friend and a former colleague. I was a constitutional law attorney, a practitioner/litigator myself. And I also worked on the impeachment defense team for President Trump twice, so I'm very familiar with the law. What we're suggesting here is that Secretary Mayorkas has openly defied federal law: openly, repeatedly engaged in a practice of defying the law that Congress has put on the books and previous presidents have signed. He has also lied to Congress; he has misrepresented facts over and over. And because of that, he's obstructed congressional oversight. All of these are constitutional responsibilities that we are unable to fulfill because this Cabinet secretary has decided to defy federal law. Extreme times, desperate times call for desperate measures, and that's where we are.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mr. Speaker, just a couple of points there. Of course, Secretary Mayorkas and you had a dispute over what it means for the border to be secured, so the notion that he lied has not stood up under independent fact checkers when you look at the fact that this was a dispute. Secondly, he says he's following the law. He says that's why new legislation needs to be passed. Mr. Speaker, how does impeaching Mayorkas do anything to address the immediate crisis at the border, which you have called a catastrophe, which you said deserves immediate attention?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Kristen, for that matter, how does passing a new law by Congress do anything to solve the catastrophe that they have intentionally designed and created? If we pass a new law, he won't follow that law either.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It gives the president expanded authority –
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
The problem is you have an abject failure of leadership.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– on asylum. It does a range of different things –
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
But the president is not using –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– to give DHS officials authority.
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
– the authorities he has right now.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let me –
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Now, Kristen, the president –
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
– and Mayorkas are not using the authority they have right now.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let me just play. You were, as you just said, a part of President Trump's defense team at his first impeachment. Here's what you had to say about impeachment back then.
[START TAPE]
REP. MIKE JOHNSON:
The founders of this country warned against single-party impeachments. The founders of this country warned against single-party impeachments. The founders of this country warned against single-party impeachments. You know why? You guys know why. Because they feared it would bitterly and perhaps irreparably divide our nation.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
What changed, Mr. Speaker?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Nothing. Nothing's changed. I would repeat the same refrain over and over because facts are stubborn things and they do not change. The Constitution does not change. Impeachment power is probably the heaviest power that the House of Representatives is given in the Constitution. Next to the declaration of war, you can argue it's the most serious power we have. And it's not to be used for partisan political purposes. That is exactly what they did for Donald Trump. They telegraphed –
KRISTEN WELKER:
How is this different?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
– they were going to impeach Donald Trump –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mr. Speaker, how is this moment different?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
– before he even took his oath of office.
KRISTEN WELKER:
If that's the case then, how is this moment different now?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
It's very different. Kristen, in many ways. Let me explain the many ways. For one, the House has methodically, slowly, deliberately gone through the impeachment process, impeachment inquiry, impeachment investigation on Mayorkas and – and President Biden himself. We've involved three different committees of jurisdiction: Judiciary, Oversight, Ways and Means. We –we have followed the facts where they have led. Not for political purposes. Not because we take pleasure in this. It's, again, a heavy thing to look at the impeachment of a president or a Cabinet secretary. But these facts require it. The House of Representatives has the constitutional responsibility of impeachment, and that begins with the investigation. And it must be very carefully, methodically done in a nonpartisan manner. That's exactly what the House Republican majority has done here. And it is exactly the opposite of what the House Democrats did in the previous administration. That is a fact, and we can follow those facts and understand them for what they are.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. And, of course, Secretary Mayorkas has said that the allegations against him are baseless. Mr. Speaker, we really appreciate your time this morning. We do hope that you will come back. We have a lot more to talk about, but there was a lot to discuss about the border today and foreign policy. Thank you. When we come back, President Biden's approval is at the lowest level of his presidency. Why are young voters turning against him? The panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here: NBC News senior Washington correspondent Hallie Jackson; Sam Jacobs, editor-in-chief of Time; Ramesh Ponnuru, editor of National Review; and Symone Sanders-Townsend, co-host of The Weekend and former chief spokesperson for Vice President Harris. Thank you all for being here on a day with a jam-packed show. Hallie, let's dive into these poll numbers.
HALLIE JACKSON:
Yes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Biden had a victory in South Carolina last night, expected. So his base there strong, but, boy, some headwinds in that poll.
HALLIE JACKSON:
Yeah. Headwinds, to say the least. And here is, based on my reporting, what I think I've heard from both camps here. Biden campaign, talking with folks there overnight, are saying the thing that they've said sort of consistently, which is, "It is early, yet. Polls are all over the place. People aren't engaging at this moment. They haven't started to really prosecute the case against Former President Trump in a way that people are engaging with right now." So, that's kind of the – the view from one side. Other piece of it that I’ve heard from the Trump campaign this morning after this poll came out, basically focusing on the economic numbers in there, which are super interesting. And, Sam, I know you know this, too, because objectively, we saw a gangbusters jobs report just on Friday. We're seeing an unemployment rate below 4%. We're seeing inflation going down. People don't feel good about it. People just don't feel good about it. You know, I was on the road with you for a couple of weeks for Iowa, New Hampshire. And that's what you hear, consistently, from some of these voters. So, watch for that economic piece of things to be something that you see both sides try to hammer hard, because the Trump campaign believes that they can continue to go after President Biden on that issue. The Biden campaign believes that there is some signaling that the pessimism people feel are starting to ease up and that within the next six to eight months, that could shift.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Sam, that divide on the economy, as Hallie is saying, could be the key to who wins on Election Day. And, by the way, this border deal, the crisis at the border is looming large, as well.
SAM JACOBS:
I think we're seeing those two key issues on the economy, where we're seeing the fact that the story the White House wants to tell is not the story the voters are telling you in this poll. And I think connected to that is this issue of enthusiasm. So the – the president won 18-to-29-year-olds by something like, you know, 24% in 2020. When you look at this poll now, you're seeing a dead heat between young voters, when it comes to current president and the former president. And I think that's connected to this economic question: Can the story of the White House is telling match with what people are feeling?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Symone, when you look at this poll, I know that we're just absorbing it this morning, but take us inside what you expect your Democratic colleagues at the White House and the campaign to say when they see these numbers?
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
Look. I think these people are going to echo what they told Hallie last night and this morning: “That it is early and there is still time,” which is true. Now, it’s – I think that this – that there is still time until August, September. If you are waiting all the way until November, if we are having this conversation in August, that is time for the pants on fire. It's early now. We spoke to Mitch Landrieu, former mayor of New Orleans, former senior advisor to the president, now co-chair of the Biden reelection campaign. And he said that, look, when he's out there and talking to folks, they have questions about the economy. When he explains and talks to them about what has actually happened, their minds tend to change. Now, every single one person cannot go out and have a one-on-one conversation, which is why campaign infrastructure matters. And so the scaling up of the campaign infrastructure, the ramping up of a surrogate operation, the president and vice president going out there, continuing to do town halls, those are things that will be effective, because they do have strong, you know, strong ground to stand on. But people have to be tuned in to hear what they are saying.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Ramesh, not only is former President Trump looking strong when you look at these polls and in the primary, but as I just was discussing with the House speaker, he is impacting what's happening on Capitol Hill. He has a say.
RAMESH PONNURU:
That's right. And, you know, if you look at this poll, it's just one piece of good news after another for Republicans. But what has Republicans worried is that the election becomes not so much a referendum on President Biden but a referendum on Donald Trump. That's the way Biden wants it. That's the way Donald Trump is psychologically built to push it. And if it becomes that kind of race, it becomes a lot tighter race. I think some of the things you're seeing, in terms of Biden's weakness among young people, is – that will go away to the extent that it becomes a Trump referendum.
HALLIE JACKSON:
I will say there's one interesting number that's going to become super relevant, probably pretty soon, and that is the conviction figure, right, because the numbers flip if you look and you ask voters in this polling–
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
HALLIE JACKSON:
– what happens if Donald Trump is convicted prior to the election. Now –
KRISTEN WELKER:
That was a fascinating number.
HALLIE JACKSON:
Well, and listen, and we've seen in the exit polls, we've seen in another that – hat the majority of the Republican electorate doesn't mind, doesn't care is the former president is convicted. But still, like four in ten do.
RAMESH PONNURU:
I think that's a bit of an illusion, though, because I think people will have time – first of all, there might not be a conviction.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
That. And that – and – and that – and you can leave it right there because I think that, increasingly, Republicans who don't want Donald Trump and Democrats who'd like to beat Trump need to take their eggs out of the conviction basket and put them in the, "Beat him at the ballot box" basket, because we may not see a significant criminal conviction. I don't think people hold Stormy Daniels and the hush-money payments in the same vein as they hold January 6th.
SAM JACOBS:
I think we're also seeing in these numbers that the Republicans are coming home to Trump in a way that, maybe, they have not yet come home to Biden. Fifty-seven percent of Republicans in this poll say that they're voting for Trump as opposed to against Biden. That number's much lower in the Democratic side. Only 31% say the Democrats are voting for Biden.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And, Hallie, there are several months until Election Day. There is time for Democrats to come home. But it's those core groups who just aren't with him yet.
HALLIE JACKSON:
Several months? There's a lot of months, Ms. Welker. November's a way's away, girl. We just got through the other thing. I mean, listen, when you look at some of the core constituencies here, there are I think alarm bells that are starting to go off. You know, it's interesting. One campaign advisor told me yesterday that they are seeing more people coming in and donating that hadn't prior been prompted for that, right?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Interesting.
HALLIE JACKSON:
So they feel that that is starting to happen. Listen, we'll have to see, come convention time. And people start paying attention over the summer, what happens.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And could these polls be a wake-up call. All right. Stay with us. When we come back, Taylor Swift became part of the political conversation this week. What happens when politics mixes with pop culture? Our Meet the Press Minute is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. After reports the Biden campaign was angling for an endorsement from the global superstar Taylor Swift, who backed Mr. Biden in 2020 but has steered clear of politics so far this cycle, was thrust into the Conservative political echo chamber. The Pentagon was forced to put out a statement, knocking down a conspiracy theory that she is part of a government plan to get President Biden reelected. Celebrity influence in politics, intentional or just because you're one of the biggest stars in the world, is nothing new. In 1979, actor Jane Fonda defended her activism on Meet the Press.
[START TAPE]
KEN AULETTA:
Ms. Fonda, you are a brilliant actress and an individual with the courage of your convictions. But besides your wealth and Hollywood fame, what qualifies you to be a national economic and political leader and spokesperson?
JANE FONDA:
I am a citizen activist. I think it's in the highest tradition of our country for private citizens to speak out, not just as individuals, but as members of organizations that can have some power. Obviously, as someone who is famous, I have a particular responsibility, and I want to try to use it properly.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, Donald Trump's push for total immunity puts his election interference case on hold. Will any case go to trial before Election Day? More with the panel, next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Our great panel is still here. Ramesh, the GOP primary is still ongoing, by the way. Nikki Haley hasn't dropped out. We have seen her step up her attacks, including taking aim against former President Trump. He's still locked in that immunity case. What do you make of the state of play right now?
RAMESH PONNURU:
There are two things I'm looking for right now. First is the central message of the Trump campaign right now, which is, "It's time to consolidate. After two states have voted, this is over. And Haley's being in this race only helps the Democrats." Is that working with Republican voters? If it is working with Republican voters, then almost any attacks she makes may be even worse. The truer the attack is, the more it's going to backfire, because people are going to hold it against her and say it's time to move on. On the flip side, are there Republicans who just will not be part of that consolidation? We saw, in New Hampshire, 40% of people who had voted in previous Republican primaries voted for Haley. Is that a sign that he's going to have a weakness – that is Trump – unifying his party in November?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Hallie, it's interesting because when I interviewed Haley last week and she said, "I just have to do better than I did in New Hampshire in South Carolina." But, boy, she's trailing him. And our national polls show, nationally, she's trailing Trump by 60 points.
HALLIE JACKSON:
Sixty points, right. And she's got to get above, I think, 43% in South Carolina to – to hit the bar that she has set publicly with you for herself, which is a very sort of clear metric here. Listen, to your point here, when you talk to people that are close to her campaign, she is essentially running a general election campaign in a primary. She is making an electability argument about where Donald Trump is weakest with some of these suburban women voters, et cetera, the voters that he's going to need in November. The problem is she is not going to get to November if she does not get through the primary. They insist that they have the resources to go for the long haul. She's talking to you about going through Super Tuesday, organizing in some of these states. But at this point, you know, the consolidation is happening, right, to a degree, in the party.
SAM JACOBS:
And the expectations are high here, not just because she's set them herself with you, but she's never lost a race in South Carolina. And very few Republican nominees have gone on to become president without South Carolina, minus one in the last 45 years – 44 years.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
And no nominee of either party has ever lost their home state in a primary and gone on to be the nominee. I feel like I can identify with Nikki Haley and Dean Phillips. I've been where they've been, okay? I've worked with Senator Sanders in 2015, 2016. I used to make those arguments. I was his press secretary. I used to make the arguments about, "Hmm. But he's strong when you get to November." You're not getting to November if you cannot win a primary. And the reality of the way in which candidates are nominated in this country is you have to win a primary process. Everything else is just fodder and punditry.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And it's all about, "Will her donors stay with her?" Thank you, guys. Amazing panel. Appreciate it. That is all for today. Thank you for watching. We'll be back next week, because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.