Idk about that not bringing about empires. Nation states can very much be imperial (i.e. USA and Israel). The right to self determination can and has been abused many times.
The whole "Israel has a right to exist" argument really only works if you view stealing other peoples land based on some vague historical/ancestral claim to it and then committing apartheid, ethnic cleansing and genocide against the people living there as some neutral, benign action that everyone should accept.
Thank you for this wonderful article! The voice of reason! Which highlights the fundamental right of peoples to exist, and not that of states that are artificial creations that can be remodelled according to the whims of history and the whims of deranged sociopaths…
Statehood is often a construct imposed by an external and often colonising force(s), and it’s particularly dangerous when that force wants homogeneity within the “state’s” borders. Palestine used to be a rich, culturally and ethnically diverse region with somewhat porous boundaries, but what the region has become having been artificially constructed by external forces and then occupied by a colonising apartheid regime with walls both within an around is a social, cultural and physical dustbowl.
Beg to differ, there is no Apartheid , saying so its an out and out lie , propagated by Pro Palestinians and Communist College Professors among others, and people like yourself.
Now on to colonizers, who colonized who? Palestine? Which Palestine ?
The British Mandated Territory between
1919 - 1922
The Ottomans before that.
The Mamluk Sultanate before that
And it goes on and on and on and on.
There have been more owners of this territory than you can shake a stick at.
At least fifteen, including Byzantines.
In actuality there has never been a Palestine, But people like yourself swallow the lie hook line and sinker.
As to the wall you speak about Egypt has one as well, why? If the Palestinians are so peaceful and hard working why not just open the border to them? Why force them to stay? Think about that .
Mark I agree with you more than I disagree but your question about why doesn’t Egypt open its border to Gaza has a very reasonable replay as to why that is not a moral idea. Doing so would incentivize ethnic cleansing, something many in Israel would (understandably) quite like to do, but which is against internationally recognized laws of war and which for many reason needs to remain so. Regardless of what people may wish, “Palestine” exists because around 7 million non-Jews living in West Bank and Gaza call themselves Palestinians, and despite what you may wish Jordan or Egypt or anywhere else is not Palestine. Israel’s moral right to exist as a Jewish state — which unlike most people here I support — is CONTINGENT on continuing, good faith efforts to give Palestinians a decent sized state, whenever they are willing to accept a Jewish state next to them. The only valid and moral alternative, I believe, is giving Palestinians ALL the rights that Israeli Arabs have.
"Beg to differ, there is no Apartheid , saying so its an out and out lie , propagated by Pro Palestinians and Communist College Professors among others, and people like yourself."
So, Israel's own human rights organization is lying?
"Now on to colonizers, who colonized who? Palestine? Which Palestine ?"
The establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine was an explicitly colonial project (specifically, British Imperialism). And, as has already been pointed out to you: according to a genetic study by John Hopkins University, 97.5% of Israelis are the descendants of European migrants and have no genetic connection to the ancient Hebrews, while 80% of Palestinians actually are the direct descendants of the ancient Hebrews.
"In actuality there has never been a Palestine, But people like yourself swallow the lie hook line and sinker."
Palestine was a recognized province of the Roman, Byzantine and Ottoman Empires, and was a mandate of the British Empire post-WW1. Considering you cited many of these, you clearly know it, so...why are you lying?
Absolutely agree. Who cares what the state is called if everyone has the same rights and the Palestinians who were driven out in the Nakba are given a right to return. Here's to a single, democratic, secular state!
Thank you! I have said for years that no state has rights. Only people do. I think—and I have to say this carefully—that those who insist on “Israel’s right to exist”!are convinced that, without the state of Israel, all Jews everywhere would be oppressed. They are wrong, I think. But they live their lives in fear, and the anger and hate bred by fear.
I think a lot of Zionists began claiming "If Israel doesn't exist, all Jews will be killed" as a defense of Israel, and somewhere along the way they began to believe it.
That was the point. Zionists have sought at every turn to present fallacies as fact and which if refuted distinguished one as seeking another Holocaust. Weaponzing the Holocaust and anti-seimitism worked for decades. They do not any longer. Zionists, and the state of Israel, are like the emperor with no clothes. We have seen truth, and can not unsee what we have seen.
Everyone with a basic understanding of history and morality knows that Israel is a terrorist entity was established by the West to solve the European Jewish "problem" and extend their imperial influence in the Middle East. If they label you as antisemitic is like being called Islamophobic by ISIS or called Christianophobic by Crusades.
what a timely article, i swear i was just thinking about this exact question in the shower a few days ago & the larger question of what gives states the “right to exist”
This is the only discussion we should be having regarding this topic. Israel is not sustainable without apartheid. It’s genocide/ethnic cleansing or dissolution. Those are effectively the choices you have if you want to engage in this topic.
A brilliant and I believe seminal article. It moves our minds towards evolution onwards from the flawed and corrupt concept of the nation state that has been endlessly leveraged by the forces of division and chaos. Bravo. 👏
People have rights, not states
Spot on! And when states begin to violate peoples' rights, they should be dismantled.
Idk about that not bringing about empires. Nation states can very much be imperial (i.e. USA and Israel). The right to self determination can and has been abused many times.
The whole "Israel has a right to exist" argument really only works if you view stealing other peoples land based on some vague historical/ancestral claim to it and then committing apartheid, ethnic cleansing and genocide against the people living there as some neutral, benign action that everyone should accept.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_of_Jews#:~:text=Several%20genetic%20studies%20demonstrated%20that,Middle%20Eastern%20and%20European%20groups.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eran_Elhaik
Thank you for this wonderful article! The voice of reason! Which highlights the fundamental right of peoples to exist, and not that of states that are artificial creations that can be remodelled according to the whims of history and the whims of deranged sociopaths…
I'm glad you appreciated it!
Statehood is often a construct imposed by an external and often colonising force(s), and it’s particularly dangerous when that force wants homogeneity within the “state’s” borders. Palestine used to be a rich, culturally and ethnically diverse region with somewhat porous boundaries, but what the region has become having been artificially constructed by external forces and then occupied by a colonising apartheid regime with walls both within an around is a social, cultural and physical dustbowl.
Beg to differ, there is no Apartheid , saying so its an out and out lie , propagated by Pro Palestinians and Communist College Professors among others, and people like yourself.
Now on to colonizers, who colonized who? Palestine? Which Palestine ?
The British Mandated Territory between
1919 - 1922
The Ottomans before that.
The Mamluk Sultanate before that
And it goes on and on and on and on.
There have been more owners of this territory than you can shake a stick at.
At least fifteen, including Byzantines.
In actuality there has never been a Palestine, But people like yourself swallow the lie hook line and sinker.
As to the wall you speak about Egypt has one as well, why? If the Palestinians are so peaceful and hard working why not just open the border to them? Why force them to stay? Think about that .
Ever ask you self that question.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
Yes I am a University Professor, which suggests I consult reliable sources beyond Wikipedia.
Touchè!
Great, then you surely have researched the history of the area called Palestinine
More so than you have
Mark I agree with you more than I disagree but your question about why doesn’t Egypt open its border to Gaza has a very reasonable replay as to why that is not a moral idea. Doing so would incentivize ethnic cleansing, something many in Israel would (understandably) quite like to do, but which is against internationally recognized laws of war and which for many reason needs to remain so. Regardless of what people may wish, “Palestine” exists because around 7 million non-Jews living in West Bank and Gaza call themselves Palestinians, and despite what you may wish Jordan or Egypt or anywhere else is not Palestine. Israel’s moral right to exist as a Jewish state — which unlike most people here I support — is CONTINGENT on continuing, good faith efforts to give Palestinians a decent sized state, whenever they are willing to accept a Jewish state next to them. The only valid and moral alternative, I believe, is giving Palestinians ALL the rights that Israeli Arabs have.
There is no moral right for a Jewish state to exist just as there isn’t such a thing for Christianity.
"Beg to differ, there is no Apartheid , saying so its an out and out lie , propagated by Pro Palestinians and Communist College Professors among others, and people like yourself."
So, Israel's own human rights organization is lying?
"Now on to colonizers, who colonized who? Palestine? Which Palestine ?"
The establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine was an explicitly colonial project (specifically, British Imperialism). And, as has already been pointed out to you: according to a genetic study by John Hopkins University, 97.5% of Israelis are the descendants of European migrants and have no genetic connection to the ancient Hebrews, while 80% of Palestinians actually are the direct descendants of the ancient Hebrews.
"In actuality there has never been a Palestine, But people like yourself swallow the lie hook line and sinker."
Palestine was a recognized province of the Roman, Byzantine and Ottoman Empires, and was a mandate of the British Empire post-WW1. Considering you cited many of these, you clearly know it, so...why are you lying?
Cunt
Ahhhhh...is someone triggered?
Zionists don’t like pesky things like reality.
Absolutely agree. Who cares what the state is called if everyone has the same rights and the Palestinians who were driven out in the Nakba are given a right to return. Here's to a single, democratic, secular state!
Thank you! I have said for years that no state has rights. Only people do. I think—and I have to say this carefully—that those who insist on “Israel’s right to exist”!are convinced that, without the state of Israel, all Jews everywhere would be oppressed. They are wrong, I think. But they live their lives in fear, and the anger and hate bred by fear.
I think a lot of Zionists began claiming "If Israel doesn't exist, all Jews will be killed" as a defense of Israel, and somewhere along the way they began to believe it.
That was the point. Zionists have sought at every turn to present fallacies as fact and which if refuted distinguished one as seeking another Holocaust. Weaponzing the Holocaust and anti-seimitism worked for decades. They do not any longer. Zionists, and the state of Israel, are like the emperor with no clothes. We have seen truth, and can not unsee what we have seen.
Great points!
Thank you!
Everyone with a basic understanding of history and morality knows that Israel is a terrorist entity was established by the West to solve the European Jewish "problem" and extend their imperial influence in the Middle East. If they label you as antisemitic is like being called Islamophobic by ISIS or called Christianophobic by Crusades.
what a timely article, i swear i was just thinking about this exact question in the shower a few days ago & the larger question of what gives states the “right to exist”
Great minds think a like I guess!
I couldn't agree more.
100% … so important to makes sure no states have rights. Not even the right of self defense. States headed duties to their citizens, hard stop.
Gracias.
I'm glad you appreciated it!🙏
And what law framework did the zionist use to create the state of Israel? the very same framework they are now destroying?
Huh?
I guess you don't have very good reading comprehension
This is the only discussion we should be having regarding this topic. Israel is not sustainable without apartheid. It’s genocide/ethnic cleansing or dissolution. Those are effectively the choices you have if you want to engage in this topic.
This is spot on.
A brilliant and I believe seminal article. It moves our minds towards evolution onwards from the flawed and corrupt concept of the nation state that has been endlessly leveraged by the forces of division and chaos. Bravo. 👏
Thank you! I'm thrilled to hear you appreciated it.
Brilliantly put "Joe"! These very thoughts bee echoed in this post from some months back...
https://thomas410.substack.com/p/does-israel-have-a-right-to-exist
Thanks! Great minds think a like!
Excellent 👌
Thank you! I'm happy to hear you appreciate it!