s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all]'s Reviews > Weight: The Myth of Atlas and Heracles
Weight: The Myth of Atlas and Heracles
by
by
s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all]'s review
bookshelves: winterson, retelling, greek_mythology
Nov 19, 2022
bookshelves: winterson, retelling, greek_mythology
‘Who is strong enough to escape their fate? Who can avoid what they must become?’
Opening a Jeannette Winterson book is a lot like that scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark when they open the ark: angelic prose comes pouring out and it melts your face clean off. For real though, Winterson can spin words the way Rumplestiltskin spun straw into gold. In Weight, Winterson puts this poetic magic to the task of spinning the tales of Atlas and Heracles into something beyond a mere myth retelling as it becomes a metafictional examination on the purpose of art and the implications of freedom and fate. While those familiar with Greek mythology won’t find much of a surprise plotwise, Winterson never fails to surprise through philosophical interjections that expand the tales into a larger context of purpose, existential inner struggles of the characters, or simply by managing to bring Russian space dog Laika into the narrative, and this retelling will be just as satisfying regardless of prior knowledge of the myths. ‘These are the stories we tell ourselves to make ourselves come true,’ Winterson writes and through this poetically gorgeous retelling we find an authentically human purpose we can all take to heart.
‘Like my brother Prometheus, I have been punished for overstepping the mark. He stole fire. I fought for freedom.’
Retellings of Greek myths have been a darling of the publishing industry lately, with Madeline Miller leading the charge to popular success, but retellings have always had deep roots in the history of literature. The oral tradition of storytelling told and retold stories for generations, keeping them alive and often adapting them to fit the needs of the times. As Winterson says in the introduction ‘my work is full of Cover Versions,’ and indeed Winterson’s deep love of fairy tales and their literary theories permeate their works so it feels only natural for them to approach Greek mythology head on. I enjoy that Winterson does not bend the myths into something they weren’t—there is a clear, loving and respectful approach to them—but instead retells them to launch our minds into larger conversations.
‘Weight’, Winterson tells us, ‘has a personal story broken against the bigger story of the myth we know and the myth I have re-told,’ and much of the authorial asides that are threaded through the narrative read like a gearing up for the full self-investigation that would occur a few years later in the jaw-droppingly moving memoir Why Be Happy When You Could Be Normal?. I love when Winterson shows up in their own books, that moment you can spot and say “that’s your life!” though, as always, Winterson insists it isn’t autobiography but a narrative that examines the self:
Much of Weight becomes a larger message on the purpose of stories and retelling them, though this comes through an investigation of the characters first. Throughout the plot of Weight we grapple with the emotional states of Atlas as well as Heracles when he briefly shoulders the Kosmos during his 12 Labours and through them come to grapple with questions of fate, freedom and purpose. For Heracles we see the question ‘why?’ begin to crack his proud veneer. Witnessing Atlas accept his punishment ‘with such grace and ease, with such gentleness, love almost,’ becomes something that will shake him even further.
‘I find I am become a part of what I must bear. There is no longer Atlas and the world, there is only the World Atlas. Travel me and I am continents. I am the journey you must make.’
This is the familiar Atlas of myth, a titan born between Earth and Poseidon, but one that becomes much more a story of what occurs internally than externally. ‘She loved him because he showed her to herself. He was her moving mirror,’ we are told of Earth’s love for Poseidon, who in turn knows ‘that while he could not cover the whole of her, she underpinned the whole of him.’ The writing is immediately lovely and love is examined in the signature Wintersonian ways that made books like The Passion so breathtaking. But this idea of understanding one’s self in relation to others is a major theme to be explored here. With Heracles, while holding the Kosmos he realizes his strength is contingent on motion or battle with others, and therefore so was his entire being dependent on being in relation to others. With ‘no one to listen to his stories, or to get drunk with, or to praise him,’ his sense of self deteriorates. This is then juxtaposed with Atlas. ‘He had only the punishment of forever,’ Winterson tells us of Atlas, ‘forever to be the same person. Forever to perform the same task,’ Instead of losing himself without others, his solitude becomes one that pulls him so far inward that he hears all of the world and begins to find himself meld with all space and time.
With Winterson, time is always a construct and a narrative (‘Tell me the time’ you say. And what you really say is ‘Tell me a story.’), and we see here a melding of all things that feels akin to the understanding of Time in Sexing the Cherry, such as the quote ‘The journey is not linear, it is always back and forth, denying the calendar, the wrinkles and lines of the body,’ from that novel.
‘His dreams were always the same; boundaries, desire.’
The gods punishment for Atlas was to trap him under the weight of the world, thus nullifying his strength. ‘They had captured his body, but not this thoughts,’ and in his solitude Atlas begins to consider the meaning of boundaries and freedom. Freedom, he observes, is something that can be best understood in relation to others as well.
Control is the name of the game here, such as Prometheus punished for giving fire to mortals (Heracles later frees Prometheus after understanding the unbearable weight of an endless punishment). Atlas considers how often we put up walls or restrict freedoms under the guise of ‘safety’—such as his own walled garden where the Golden Apples are kept—or engage in a creation of boundaries to curb desire. ‘Demarcation, check-points, border controls. And all in the name of freedom. Freedom for me means curbing you,’ he thinks, a passage that seemingly folds time to be a direct criticism of modern day politics. When Atlas asks Hera why the gods cannot grant his gift of knowledge of past, present and future to the mortals, she replies ‘Humankind continues in ignorance because knowledge destroys them. Everything that man invents he soon turns to his own destruction.’ For her, freedom is dangerous, something that must be controlled. ‘If I seem like fate to you,’ Hera says to Heracles, ‘it is because you have no power of your own,’ and we begin to observe Fate as the gods curbing our freedom.
‘How can I escape my fate?’
‘You must choose your destiny.’
In contrast to ‘the manner of infinite gentleness with which Atlas had resumed the impossible burden of the world,’ Heracles exists trying to dodge fate. His arc is one that is bent towards that fate, and no matter how hard he tries to escape it he finds himself redirecting himself straight for it.
As David Foster Wallace said, ‘although of course you end up becoming yourself.’ In this, can we find a sense of freedom under the constraints of fate by instead choosing to see it as destiny? Do we find a fresh perspective on the hinge of connotations?
‘No hero can be destroyed by the world. His reward is to destroy himself. Not what you meet on the way, but what you are, will destroy you, Heracles.’
Honestly, I love Winterson’s depiction of Heracles as this sad, lonesome road warrior joylessly completing his tasks. ‘Is he a joke or a god?’ Atlas wonders, ‘his doubleness is his strength and his downfall. He is a joke and a god.’ Heracles is not depicted very flatteringly, prone of violence and sexual assault, and it is a delight to see him put in his place by Hera (Zeus being protective giving shrugs ‘as if to say, Women, what can you do with them?’ is comedic gold as well). The toxic aspects of him are writ large, though it doesn’t feel as pointedly critical like in Madeline Miller and instead assumes you’ll draw the conclusions on your own. Which is something I love about Winterson because Winterson believes in you, the reader, to connect dots that come across as heavy handed when other authors do it for you. But anyways, the portrait of him is one that observes how ‘Heracles’s strength was a cover for his weakness,’ and that even with all the strength in the world he cannot escape his fate. I adore the Heracles story as one of existential crisis, which is honestly more engaging than the Atlas story here if only because of how laced it is with a perfect blend of comedy and tragedy.
‘Fate reads like the polar opposite of decision, and so much of life reads like fate.’
What the gods they didn’t expect with Atlas was, while strict boundaries were enforced on his body, his mind would take flight towards freedom. This becomes a metaphor for the creative spirit and endurance of the artist and is also where Winterson does what I love best about Winterson novels: launch into philosophical discussions that launch us into the stratosphere of prose and thought. And in this we discover why the retelling is not just chronicling the journey of heroes, but the actual act of retelling becomes our own journey. ‘I thought that if I could only keep on telling the story,’ Winterson writes, ‘if the story would not end, I could invent my way out of the world.: This is a clear reference to the autobiographical details threaded through their novels, most notably the incredible Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit but they also crop up in almost every novel. The more you read the more you’ll recognize them.
With each retelling a different stone can be turned over and examined, something new can be gleaned, and we hope that with each re-examination we are moving closer to some kind of truth that could set us free. Knowing we won’t reach it but believing anyways. This is one one of the most enduring beauties of literature. It’s why some of us read more and more, enjoying the release when an author hits a high note that reverberates through us so strongly we think we can feel our bones humming to the tune of the universe. It is how we try to escape fate and fumble to form a narrative that—we hope—is the pathway through the forest of life on a quest towards our destiny. Winterson discusses how when we are young we are rereading the narrative of our parents, but must inevitably set out on our own to write the stories of ourselves. It’s why the old myths matter: they are the lessons we use as a compass but we must write our own north star into the heavens of the Self to pursue our own sense of meaning. ‘Having no one to carry me, I learned to carry myself. My girlfriend says I have an Atlas complex,’ Winterson writes, and suddenly the reason for this specific retelling becomes clear.
The phrase ‘I want to tell the story again’ repeats like a mantra across the novella Weight, a book that is short in length but deceptively so as it is deep in emotional resonance and meaning. While retellings are a popular topic, Winterson manages to do the original myths justice while still making them their own in a way that feels so unique and personal, I can’t help but gush enthusiasm for it. It traverses to a fitting end that becomes a modern myth all of its own. Sure, this is the first 4 star I’ve given Winterson, which isn’t a slight against it as I did enjoy this thoroughly but it doesn’t connect with the same power as the bigger titles. Still, Weight is a gorgeous achievement of prose and philosophical musings that examine fate, freedom, and the freeing power of storytelling.
⅘
‘Now he was carrying something he wanted to keep, and that changed everything.’
Opening a Jeannette Winterson book is a lot like that scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark when they open the ark: angelic prose comes pouring out and it melts your face clean off. For real though, Winterson can spin words the way Rumplestiltskin spun straw into gold. In Weight, Winterson puts this poetic magic to the task of spinning the tales of Atlas and Heracles into something beyond a mere myth retelling as it becomes a metafictional examination on the purpose of art and the implications of freedom and fate. While those familiar with Greek mythology won’t find much of a surprise plotwise, Winterson never fails to surprise through philosophical interjections that expand the tales into a larger context of purpose, existential inner struggles of the characters, or simply by managing to bring Russian space dog Laika into the narrative, and this retelling will be just as satisfying regardless of prior knowledge of the myths. ‘These are the stories we tell ourselves to make ourselves come true,’ Winterson writes and through this poetically gorgeous retelling we find an authentically human purpose we can all take to heart.
‘Like my brother Prometheus, I have been punished for overstepping the mark. He stole fire. I fought for freedom.’
Retellings of Greek myths have been a darling of the publishing industry lately, with Madeline Miller leading the charge to popular success, but retellings have always had deep roots in the history of literature. The oral tradition of storytelling told and retold stories for generations, keeping them alive and often adapting them to fit the needs of the times. As Winterson says in the introduction ‘my work is full of Cover Versions,’ and indeed Winterson’s deep love of fairy tales and their literary theories permeate their works so it feels only natural for them to approach Greek mythology head on. I enjoy that Winterson does not bend the myths into something they weren’t—there is a clear, loving and respectful approach to them—but instead retells them to launch our minds into larger conversations.
‘Weight’, Winterson tells us, ‘has a personal story broken against the bigger story of the myth we know and the myth I have re-told,’ and much of the authorial asides that are threaded through the narrative read like a gearing up for the full self-investigation that would occur a few years later in the jaw-droppingly moving memoir Why Be Happy When You Could Be Normal?. I love when Winterson shows up in their own books, that moment you can spot and say “that’s your life!” though, as always, Winterson insists it isn’t autobiography but a narrative that examines the self:
‘Autobiography is not important. Authenticity is important. The writer must fire herself through the text, be the molten stuff that welds together disparate elements. I believe there is always exposure, vulnerability, in the writing process, which is not to say it is either confessional or memoir. Simply, it is real.’
Much of Weight becomes a larger message on the purpose of stories and retelling them, though this comes through an investigation of the characters first. Throughout the plot of Weight we grapple with the emotional states of Atlas as well as Heracles when he briefly shoulders the Kosmos during his 12 Labours and through them come to grapple with questions of fate, freedom and purpose. For Heracles we see the question ‘why?’ begin to crack his proud veneer. Witnessing Atlas accept his punishment ‘with such grace and ease, with such gentleness, love almost,’ becomes something that will shake him even further.
‘I find I am become a part of what I must bear. There is no longer Atlas and the world, there is only the World Atlas. Travel me and I am continents. I am the journey you must make.’
This is the familiar Atlas of myth, a titan born between Earth and Poseidon, but one that becomes much more a story of what occurs internally than externally. ‘She loved him because he showed her to herself. He was her moving mirror,’ we are told of Earth’s love for Poseidon, who in turn knows ‘that while he could not cover the whole of her, she underpinned the whole of him.’ The writing is immediately lovely and love is examined in the signature Wintersonian ways that made books like The Passion so breathtaking. But this idea of understanding one’s self in relation to others is a major theme to be explored here. With Heracles, while holding the Kosmos he realizes his strength is contingent on motion or battle with others, and therefore so was his entire being dependent on being in relation to others. With ‘no one to listen to his stories, or to get drunk with, or to praise him,’ his sense of self deteriorates. This is then juxtaposed with Atlas. ‘He had only the punishment of forever,’ Winterson tells us of Atlas, ‘forever to be the same person. Forever to perform the same task,’ Instead of losing himself without others, his solitude becomes one that pulls him so far inward that he hears all of the world and begins to find himself meld with all space and time.
‘ I realise I am carrying not only this world, but all possible worlds. I am carrying the world in time as well as in space. I am carrying the world’s mistakes and its glories. I am carrying its potential as well as what has so far been realised.’
With Winterson, time is always a construct and a narrative (‘Tell me the time’ you say. And what you really say is ‘Tell me a story.’), and we see here a melding of all things that feels akin to the understanding of Time in Sexing the Cherry, such as the quote ‘The journey is not linear, it is always back and forth, denying the calendar, the wrinkles and lines of the body,’ from that novel.
‘His dreams were always the same; boundaries, desire.’
The gods punishment for Atlas was to trap him under the weight of the world, thus nullifying his strength. ‘They had captured his body, but not this thoughts,’ and in his solitude Atlas begins to consider the meaning of boundaries and freedom. Freedom, he observes, is something that can be best understood in relation to others as well.
‘Why did the gods insist on limits and boundaries when any fool could see that these things were only rules and taboos – customs made to keep people in their place? Rebellion was always punished like this – by taking away what little freedom there was, by encasing the spirit.’
Control is the name of the game here, such as Prometheus punished for giving fire to mortals (Heracles later frees Prometheus after understanding the unbearable weight of an endless punishment). Atlas considers how often we put up walls or restrict freedoms under the guise of ‘safety’—such as his own walled garden where the Golden Apples are kept—or engage in a creation of boundaries to curb desire. ‘Demarcation, check-points, border controls. And all in the name of freedom. Freedom for me means curbing you,’ he thinks, a passage that seemingly folds time to be a direct criticism of modern day politics. When Atlas asks Hera why the gods cannot grant his gift of knowledge of past, present and future to the mortals, she replies ‘Humankind continues in ignorance because knowledge destroys them. Everything that man invents he soon turns to his own destruction.’ For her, freedom is dangerous, something that must be controlled. ‘If I seem like fate to you,’ Hera says to Heracles, ‘it is because you have no power of your own,’ and we begin to observe Fate as the gods curbing our freedom.
‘How can I escape my fate?’
‘You must choose your destiny.’
In contrast to ‘the manner of infinite gentleness with which Atlas had resumed the impossible burden of the world,’ Heracles exists trying to dodge fate. His arc is one that is bent towards that fate, and no matter how hard he tries to escape it he finds himself redirecting himself straight for it.
‘The ancients believed in Fate because they recognised how hard it is for anyone to change anything. The pull of past and future is so strong that the present is crushed by it. We lie helpless in the force of patterns inherited and patterns re-enacted by our own behaviour. The burden is intolerable.’
As David Foster Wallace said, ‘although of course you end up becoming yourself.’ In this, can we find a sense of freedom under the constraints of fate by instead choosing to see it as destiny? Do we find a fresh perspective on the hinge of connotations?
‘No hero can be destroyed by the world. His reward is to destroy himself. Not what you meet on the way, but what you are, will destroy you, Heracles.’
Honestly, I love Winterson’s depiction of Heracles as this sad, lonesome road warrior joylessly completing his tasks. ‘Is he a joke or a god?’ Atlas wonders, ‘his doubleness is his strength and his downfall. He is a joke and a god.’ Heracles is not depicted very flatteringly, prone of violence and sexual assault, and it is a delight to see him put in his place by Hera (Zeus being protective giving shrugs ‘as if to say, Women, what can you do with them?’ is comedic gold as well). The toxic aspects of him are writ large, though it doesn’t feel as pointedly critical like in Madeline Miller and instead assumes you’ll draw the conclusions on your own. Which is something I love about Winterson because Winterson believes in you, the reader, to connect dots that come across as heavy handed when other authors do it for you. But anyways, the portrait of him is one that observes how ‘Heracles’s strength was a cover for his weakness,’ and that even with all the strength in the world he cannot escape his fate. I adore the Heracles story as one of existential crisis, which is honestly more engaging than the Atlas story here if only because of how laced it is with a perfect blend of comedy and tragedy.
‘Fate reads like the polar opposite of decision, and so much of life reads like fate.’
What the gods they didn’t expect with Atlas was, while strict boundaries were enforced on his body, his mind would take flight towards freedom. This becomes a metaphor for the creative spirit and endurance of the artist and is also where Winterson does what I love best about Winterson novels: launch into philosophical discussions that launch us into the stratosphere of prose and thought. And in this we discover why the retelling is not just chronicling the journey of heroes, but the actual act of retelling becomes our own journey. ‘I thought that if I could only keep on telling the story,’ Winterson writes, ‘if the story would not end, I could invent my way out of the world.: This is a clear reference to the autobiographical details threaded through their novels, most notably the incredible Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit but they also crop up in almost every novel. The more you read the more you’ll recognize them.
‘That’s why I write fiction – so that I can keep telling the story. I return to problems I can’t solve, not because I’m an idiot, but because the real problems can’t be solved. The universe is expanding. The more we see, the more we discover there is to see.
Always a new beginning, a different end.’
With each retelling a different stone can be turned over and examined, something new can be gleaned, and we hope that with each re-examination we are moving closer to some kind of truth that could set us free. Knowing we won’t reach it but believing anyways. This is one one of the most enduring beauties of literature. It’s why some of us read more and more, enjoying the release when an author hits a high note that reverberates through us so strongly we think we can feel our bones humming to the tune of the universe. It is how we try to escape fate and fumble to form a narrative that—we hope—is the pathway through the forest of life on a quest towards our destiny. Winterson discusses how when we are young we are rereading the narrative of our parents, but must inevitably set out on our own to write the stories of ourselves. It’s why the old myths matter: they are the lessons we use as a compass but we must write our own north star into the heavens of the Self to pursue our own sense of meaning. ‘Having no one to carry me, I learned to carry myself. My girlfriend says I have an Atlas complex,’ Winterson writes, and suddenly the reason for this specific retelling becomes clear.
The phrase ‘I want to tell the story again’ repeats like a mantra across the novella Weight, a book that is short in length but deceptively so as it is deep in emotional resonance and meaning. While retellings are a popular topic, Winterson manages to do the original myths justice while still making them their own in a way that feels so unique and personal, I can’t help but gush enthusiasm for it. It traverses to a fitting end that becomes a modern myth all of its own. Sure, this is the first 4 star I’ve given Winterson, which isn’t a slight against it as I did enjoy this thoroughly but it doesn’t connect with the same power as the bigger titles. Still, Weight is a gorgeous achievement of prose and philosophical musings that examine fate, freedom, and the freeing power of storytelling.
⅘
‘Now he was carrying something he wanted to keep, and that changed everything.’
Sign into Goodreads to see if any of your friends have read
Weight.
Sign In »
Reading Progress
November 18, 2022
–
Started Reading
November 18, 2022
– Shelved
November 19, 2022
– Shelved as:
winterson
November 19, 2022
– Shelved as:
retelling
November 19, 2022
– Shelved as:
greek_mythology
November 19, 2022
–
Finished Reading
Comments Showing 1-45 of 45 (45 new)
date
newest »
newest »
message 1:
by
Derek
(new)
-
rated it 3 stars
Nov 19, 2022 03:17AM
Wow. What a great review. I just finished the book and can’t get enough of Winterson lately. Every book is so different from the last, but all are filled with poetry. Reading and loving Sexing the Cherry now.
reply
|
flag
Derek wrote: "Wow. What a great review. I just finished the book and can’t get enough of Winterson lately. Every book is so different from the last, but all are filled with poetry. Reading and loving Sexing the ..."Thank you so much! ha, same. I revisited her last winter and havent been able to stop since. Oooo, curious what you think of that one. I liked it well enough when I read it but I think about it constantly and it's the first one I want to reread. Been thinking about doing that soon actually. Thanks again!
LTJ wrote: "EXCELLENT review, wow! I'm so glad you enjoyed this and it checked all the boxes for you :-)"Thank you so much! Winterson has definitely become my favorite this year, and each one keeps satisfying.
Incredible, incredible review! Even though this was the first 4 star of the author’s works, that’s awesome that it was still very enjoyable for you and a great read! 😄
Allison wrote: "Incredible, incredible review! Even though this was the first 4 star of the author’s works, that’s awesome that it was still very enjoyable for you and a great read! 😄"Thank you so much :) I suppose it was inevitable they wouldn’t all be perfect but this was still a very high 4 at least! Definitely my favorite author at this point haha thanks again!
The Girl with the Sagittarius Tattoo wrote: "I've had this one in my TBR, I need to get to it."Oooo yes, would love to hear your thoughts on this one!
lovely review as always! i always thoroughly look forward to your winterson reviews because no one quite loves them the way you do :) can't wait to gush about this one with you after i read it! (i was thinking of reading frankisstein next but this one seems so perfect and it's so short!) i really love the way winterson transforms stories and myths while still keeping the bones of the original intact - even just reading through your review it kind of struck me how reading her retellings brings the wonder of the original story back for me? like i remember reading about the greek myths as a kid and how expansive and awe-inspiring it felt, and like winterson knows exactly how to tap into that and make it fresh.
also really loved how she touched on retellings as a form of self-examination and returning to the past again and again to discover new things about yourself. i feel like it's one of the most impressive things about her writing, how these same elements show up in all her novels and she often writes herself into them but it never feels repetitive or gratuitous, it's just her discovering new angles of the same story? it's just so so good and one of my favorite things about her writing
i can't wait to read this one!! i'm sure it will 'melt my face clean off' as all of her other ones have hahahaha
hope wrote: "lovely review as always! i always thoroughly look forward to your winterson reviews because no one quite loves them the way you do :) can't wait to gush about this one with you after i read it! (i ..."Thank you so much! Ah I just typed out a long comment and then my phone died before I could post it haha. But I’m excited to discuss this one with you (and Frankissstein!), I can pass you my copy if you’d like.
Yea the aspect on retellings was great here as like…an epiphany moment about the whole of her works? It felt a lot like getting ideas ready for Why Be Happy but also fresh perspectives that complement her discussions there. It’s interesting because this was earlier enough that she mentions she still doesn’t know who the biological parents were yet (there’s a beautiful line about how to her they are still just mythology). But yea, I love how Winterson books are just as much getting to know Winterson as they are the stories. Maybe that’s a big part of why it’s so easy to love Winterson novels. Interesting as the last few have mostly been Winterson’s take on something else, like Winters Tale or Frankenstein or actual witch trials.
Ooo expansive is a good way to put it and I think that gets captured really well here. You’ll see haha. This goes places but also is pretty faithful to the originals? It’s just all very Winterson. I love that Heracles is written as someone who calls people “mate” because then I just heard Taika Waititi as Blackbeard in my head haha.
Thanks again, really excited to continue our Winterson obsession chats about this one!
What a wonderful review. It sounds as if Winterson is riffing on her familiar themes, but in fresh ways - even though she's using ancient myths. (Having just finished a Winterson I really didn't enjoy, the timing of your posting this is perfect: I've loved her often enough not to write her off, and this sounds a good pick for me.)
Cecily wrote: "What a wonderful review. It sounds as if Winterson is riffing on her familiar themes, but in fresh ways - even though she's using ancient myths. (Having just finished a Winterson I really didn't en..."Ooo yea I think you would like this one, it’d be a good return to Winterson after Power Book (saving that for last based on your review haha). She definitely makes it her own and it all feels very much Winterson even though it’s more or less the familiar story (until the end). And thank you so much!
s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "lovely review as always! i always thoroughly look forward to your winterson reviews because no one quite loves them the way you do :) can't wait to gush about this one with you after i..."hahaha nooo your phone specifically hates you replying to my comments! but YES that would be amazing if you don't mind!! i find i really prefer reading her stuff in physical form over ebook, not sure why
ahh and that is so cool, i love how you can see her like progressing towards the culmination of why be happy (which is one of my favorites, like of all time) but still feeling new and like she's adding to the ongoing conversation. and that's a perfect way to word it, getting to know her through her stories! i think that definitely adds to why i like her so much, there's this sense of learning more about her and growing with her. and that's truee she's definitely been branching out more into set stories rather than leaning into the autobiographical elements - which i think is cool and i like seeing her experiment but i really love when she writes herself into a story
ooh that is mysterious and i'm excited for it. and i LOVE that wow i can hear him saying it in my head perfectly haha
and you're welcome!! i'm excited tooo :)
hope wrote: "ahh and that is so cool, i love how you can see her like progressing towards the culmination of why be happy (which is one of my favorites, like of all time) ..."Ha it happens every time I write a long response!
That’s a good way to put it, it’s sort of like unlocking who Winterson is inside along with Winterson as she investigates the self through storytelling. Which is a big part of this one. I love how much they refuse to refer to any of it as autobiographical. I like that line that true doesn’t matter, just authentic. And agreed. I like too how there’s certain elements that seem very specifically meaningful to them, like the woman with the red hair in like all the first few books. I’ll bring this for you tomorrow!
Ian wrote: "A Winterson tour de forceIs mythologised
For all the modern readers"
YES. Perfect haha that’s all this review needed to say.
mark… wrote: "Great review! Straight to WTR… m."Oh excellent, I hope you enjoy! Really liked this one, the whole series of myth retellings it is published as part of is cool (got the Ali Smith and Atwood one up next). And thank you so much!
I've been toying with the idea of an atlas complex in my own creative writing for a while now which I thought was supremely clever of me and now realise I just stole from this book. I see it as a sign it deserves a reread! I too love it when Winterson gushes about the power of storytelling and language. She's the only writer that can make the act of reading (and writing) so vital, so essential to the fabric of your being. In her work, reading is not leisure, but becoming, and she instills that passion in each of her works, even the ones that perhaps fall short of her best work. My favourite author of all time, so happy with all your fantastic reviews. I always look forward to them!
Bavo wrote: "I've been toying with the idea of an atlas complex in my own creative writing for a while now which I thought was supremely clever of me and now realise I just stole from this book. I see it as a s..."Well I think at least Winterson would say it isn’t stealing but discovery through the act of retelling! In a way I think it also makes the case for rereading, and seeing what parts of the self resonate the most on each reading.
That’s such a lovely way to put it, reading as vital to the fabric of being. I think that really captures what I love about their work as well. Such a good choice for a favorite, I think this year Ive discovered Winterson is also my favorite as well (getting a tattoo designed even haha). Which book has been your favorite?
And thank you so much! Going to try to get one more in for 2022, probably the Christmas stories to cap the year off on a seasonal note.
s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "ahh and that is so cool, i love how you can see her like progressing towards the culmination of why be happy (which is one of my favorites, like of all time) ..."Ha it happens every ..."
yesss exactly, i think it feels so authentic and vulnerable Because you get that sense of learning with her, which i love. and yess they will never call it autobiographical it's always like...stories and myths within each other that reference back to her life which i think is so cool? i love that consistent thread of self-mythologizing, she is undisputably the best at it. and i think about the woman with red hair all the time haha like what caused her to put that in so many books
and thank you for passing it along!! i'm really excited to read it, it's perfect for the holiday break
hope wrote: "yesss exactly, i think it feels so authentic and vulnerable Because you get that sense of learning with her, which i love. and yess they will never call it autobiographical..."Whenever someone asks “is that true?” I’m going to start saying “it’s authentic” and shrug. Yea! I gotta figure the woman with red hair is based loosely on a former love right? They are so good at self-myth making. I think I’ve realized that’s a big grab for me, because Ernaux does that to some extent too and Roberto Bolaño does it constantly (I LOVE his books). With RB he’ll like be a character in most of the books and will occasionally just like, pull a knife on a drug lord and it’s like whatever I’ll believe it, Roberto is a badass haha.
Yay I’m excited to hear what you think!
I know this style isn't for me but please "‘No hero can be destroyed by the world. His reward is to destroy himself. Not what you meet on the way, but what you are, will destroy you, Heracles.’" this is making me want to read this booooook So many stellar themes set in such a way as to remind the reader that they are in there somewhere too, nestles between the spaces. I love stories like that. So glad this was so enjoyable for you!!
Chantel wrote: "I know this style isn't for me but please "‘No hero can be destroyed by the world. His reward is to destroy himself. Not what you meet on the way, but what you are, will destroy you, Heracles.’" th..."Oooo I love the way you put that “to remind the reader that they are in there somewhere too”, that’s really good. But yea, I love how Winterson books end up including the reader as participant and part of the larger magic of storytelling. Ha fair, her style is probably not for everyone but she has become my absolute favorite now (I think I’ve now read 8 books? Hoping for one more before the year is done). Thanks!
s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "yesss exactly, i think it feels so authentic and vulnerable Because you get that sense of learning with her, which i love. and yess they will never call it autobiographical..."Whenev..."
hahaha oh that's so perfect! just the kind of mysterious almost-asshole response that winterson loves. and that's what i was thinking, an old flame or something. although maybe she just thinks women with red hair are hot and that is both valid and true.
haha okay yes you've mentioned that you like bolano a lot and that is amazing! it takes a certain kind of person to be able to pull off the self-insert badass without looking like a dick and i respect it.
hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "yesss exactly, i think it feels so authentic and vulnerable Because you get that sense of learning with her, which i love. and yess they will never call it autobiog..."Haha it really does! He’s sort of self deprecating while mythologizing so I think that balance helps pull it off?
But yes! Winterson approval is all I want haha. And at least we know Winterson digs redheads. And fairy tales. Respect.
s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "yesss exactly, i think it feels so authentic and vulnerable Because you get that sense of learning with her, which i love. and yess they will never cal..."oh that makes sense! yeah you have to strike the balance for sure, and when you can do it properly it's always so good!
yesss same i just want to live a life winterson would approve of! and truee no one can accuse her of having poor taste
hope wrote: "oh that makes sense! yeah you have to strike the balance for sure, and when you can do it properly it's always so good! yesss same i just want to live a life winterson ..."
The best taste! It’s interesting reading the criticisms of her prose as “too pretentious” as it’s sort of what I love best about the books, but I think that validates our idea that it’s just refined taste and classy haha. I am just always craving that style of prose though, it’s makes language so maleable and they do such awesome things with it.
s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "oh that makes sense! yeah you have to strike the balance for sure, and when you can do it properly it's always so good! yesss same i just want to live a life winterson ..."
The best ..."
right?? like i feel like all those people saying that she's too pretentious are missing that...that's kind of the point haha. i feel like if you called her too pretentious she'd be like "yeah" and laugh in your face? but i totally agree, that's the best part of her books! i also wonder if it was strange for her at first being called pretentious after growing up being told constantly that women authors are stupid and especially having grown up poor - i feel like that would give anyone a weird cognitive dissonance like okay now you're saying i'm too smart?
hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "oh that makes sense! yeah you have to strike the balance for sure, and when you can do it properly it's always so good! yesss same i just want to live a life winte..."
Hahaha yea true Winterson would just be like “GOOD that’s the point!” And true, doesn’t that sort of come up in the memoir too? Something like about claims of women authors being too loud and too aggressive and claims of her being full of herself is just what women had to aim for in order to even be heard in publishing or something like that? This is why I need to own a physical copy, I want to quote it all the time haha
s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "oh that makes sense! yeah you have to strike the balance for sure, and when you can do it properly it's always so good! yesss same i just want to live..."
she would!! which is why i love her hahaha and yess it totally does! i don't remember the exact quote either (and i don't have my copy on hand) but yeah she talks about how women authors are seen as being pretentious or cocky or arrogant just for like, recognizing that they're good and trying to advocate for themselves. (and you don't have a physical copy yet?? you definitely need one)
message 34:
by
s.penkevich [hiatus-will return-miss you all]
(last edited Nov 27, 2022 12:13PM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "oh that makes sense! yeah you have to strike the balance for sure, and when you can do it properly it's always so good! yesss same..."
Ooo yes, that’s it! I love that whole section and how she’s just like actually fuck Nabokov. Of when the prof is like “he doesn’t hate women he just hates what they become” and she gets super into Gertrude Stein because she thinks Stein is everything Nabokov hated haha. I have a theory that Dog Woman is written with Nabokov in mind.
And I do! I keep meaning to find like a nice hardcover of it before all my Hoopla underlines go away (I think they stay at least a year?) so I can transfer them over haha
s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "s.penkevich wrote: "hope wrote: "oh that makes sense! yeah you have to strike the balance for sure, and when you can do it properly it's always so good..."YES IT'S SO GOOD when she's like holy shit you get that this guy hates women right? and the prof is like nooo you don't understandd women just don't understand his writingg and she's like actually fuck that. god i love her hahaha (and that's a genius theory i'm adopting that one)
ooh yes you gotta find the perfect copy! and nice, that's the same thing i did except i read it on libby
hope wrote: "YES IT'S SO GOOD when she's like holy shit you get that this guy hates women right? and the prof is like nooo you don't understandd women just don't understand..."Hahaha yea, I love that she’s like NOPE. There’s some other great line about how the school is like see we value diversity, we let you, a working class woman in, we just don’t think any women are worth reading. I love how she puts everyone on blast in that book.
Samidha; समिधा wrote: "Great review!! You've convinced me to read it"Thank you so much :) I hope you enjoy, Winterson has become an absolute favorite for me this year!
"The first gift the gods gave Prometheus was the gift of fire. The second was numbering, to count the dead."---CHURCHILL AS WARLOD
Julio wrote: ""The first gift the gods gave Prometheus was the gift of fire. The second was numbering, to count the dead."---CHURCHILL AS WARLOD"Oh shit thats a great quote
Julio wrote: ""The gods have not disappeared. They never left us".---Ezra Pound"I enjoy how in this one the gods didn't disappear, their role was usurped and they were killed by Christians haha
Have to disagree, S. : I think Pound was commenting on how Christianity had failed to dislocate the pagan gods. In THE CANTOS he seems more preoccupied on how commercialism is accomplishing what the Christers could not.
Julio wrote: ""The gods have not disappeared. They never left us".---Ezra Pound"I wonder if that line was in Neil Gaiman's mind when he wrote American Gods?
Cecily wrote: "Julio wrote: ""The gods have not disappeared. They never left us".---Ezra Pound"I wonder if that line was in Neil Gaiman's mind when he wrote American Gods?"
Ooo yea that might as well have been the epigraph






