Royal Irish Constabulary
Statements by Former Members
To the
American Commission on Conditions in Ireland
Hotel La Fayette, Washington
Digitalized by Patrick Hugh Lynch
December 2nd 2020
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© 2020 Research Patrick Hugh Lynch
Contents
TESTIMONY OF JOHN JOSEPH CADDAN ............................................................................... 4
POLICE NOW TRAINED FOR WAR RATHER THAN POLICE DUTIES ............................... 4
THE SACKING OF TUAM ........................................................................................................... 5
TUAM WRECKED AS REPRISAL FOR AMBUSH TEN M I L E S D I S T A N T ..................... 7
DRUNKEN BLACK-AND-TAN CAUSES MURDER, ARSON AND TERROR IN GALWAY8
BRODERICKS ORDERED TO REMAIN IN BURNING HOUSE .......................................... 10
INVESTIGATION AFTER TRAGIC REPRISALS .................................................................... 11
COMMANDING OFFICER OF POLICE COMMITTING REPRISALS PROMOTED ............ 11
THE MURDER OF QUIRK ......................................................................................................... 12
MEN WHO KNOW HOW TO KILL REINFORCE CONSTABULARY ................................. 12
LOW CHARACTER OF BLACK-AND-TANS .......................................................................... 13
AGE OF CONSTABLES AND BLACK-AND-TANS ................................................................ 14
GOVERNMENT BAR IN BARRACKS KEEPS MEN SODDEN ............................................ 15
RESIGNED CONSTABLE FLOGGED BY BLACK-AND- T A N S ........................................ 17
REASON FOR RESIGNING FROM CONSTABULARY .......................................................... 17
DRINKS AND EXTRA PAY FOR MEN ON RAIDS ................................................................ 18
GENERAL CONDITIONS IN IRELAND ................................................................................... 19
TESTIMONY OF DANIEL GALVIN .......................................................................................... 22
THIRTEEN YEARS' SERVICE IN CONSTABULARY ............................................................ 22
ABSOLUTE RELIGIOUS HARMONY IN SOUTH IRELAND ............................................... 24
REMARKABLE ABSENCE OF CRIME .................................................................................... 24
LITTLE NEED OF A POLICE FORCE TO MAINTAIN ORDER ............................................ 25
POLICE MILITARIZED AFTER REPUBLICAN ELECTION VICTORY .............................. 27
FAIRS, MARKETS, AND PUBLIC ASSEMBLIES PROHIBITED .......................................... 27
DISRUPTION OF LIFE OF PEOPLE PRECEDES DISORDERS .......................................... 27
REASON FOR RESIGNING FROM CONSTABULARY .......................................................... 28
ARMED INVASION OF CHURCH SERVICES TO INCITE PEOPLE ................................... 28
BLACK-AND-TANS LICENSED TO SHOOT ANY SINN FEINER WITHOUT DISCIPLINE
...................................................................................................................................................... 29
LOW CHARACTER OF BLACK-AND-TANS .......................................................................... 30
TESTIMONY OF DANIEL FRANCIS CROWLEY .................................................................. 31
THE TRAINING OF A POLICE RECRUIT................................................................................ 31
POLICE ARMED FOR AGGRESSIVE WAR IN 1919 .............................................................. 32
COMPLETE ABSENCE OF SERIOUS CRIMES ....................................................................... 34
ABSOLUTE RELIGIOUS HARMONY ...................................................................................... 34
GENERAL LUCAS ORDERS SINN FEINERS SUMMARILY SHOT .................................... 35
DISGRACEFUL ACTS OF MILITARY ..................................................................................... 36
MURDER OF POLICE WHO RESIGN ...................................................................................... 39
DESTRUCTION OF HOMES OF REPUBLICAN SYMPATHIZERS ...................................... 39
REASON FOR RESIGNING FROM CONSTABULARY .......................................................... 41
POLICE ORDERED TO SHOOT SINN FEINERS AT SIGHT ................................................ 42
BLACK-AND-TANS PAID HIGHER THAN REGULAR POLICE ........................................ 43
DESTRUCTION OF CREAMERIES BY MILITARY ............................................................... 44
SUPPRESSION OF FAIRS, MARKETS, AND RIGHT OF ASSEMBLY ................................. 44
NO SHOOTING OF POLICEMEN TO WARRANT SUPPRESSION IN COUNTY CLARE . 45
WHY SOME IRISH POLICE HAVE NOT RESIGNED............................................................. 45
LEFT IRELAND TO PROTECT LIFE FROM BLACK-AND-TANS........................................ 46
TESTIMONY OF JOHN TANGNEY........................................................................................... 47
FIVE YEARS' SERVICE IN CONSTABULARY ....................................................................... 47
CONSTABULARY CHANGED TO AN AGGRESSIVE ARMED FORCE.............................. 48
POPULATION NEVER BETRAYS POLITICAL REFUGEES ................................................ 50
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BLACK-AND-TANS TRAINED AS MILITARY, IGNORANT AS POLICE ......................... 52
ARMED MILITARY INVADE RELIGIOUS SERVICES ......................................................... 53
ORDERED TO BAYONET SINN FEIN SYMPATHIZERS ..................................................... 54
ORDERED TO SUPPRESS POPULAR FESTIVAL BY FORCE .............................................. 56
DRUNKEN OFFICERS IN COMMAND .................................................................................... 57
DRUNKEN BLACK-AND-TANS FIGHT IN BARRACKS ...................................................... 58
REASONS FOR RESIGNING FROM CONSTABULARY ....................................................... 60
BLACK-AND-TANS DISLIKED BY CONSTABULARY ........................................................ 61
TUAM - A RESIGNED CONSTABLE SCOURGED AND DRIVEN FROM TOWN ....... 63
Statement of H Ruddy Bishop St, Tuam 25/9/20 ................................................................. 63
Second Statement of H Ruddy Tuam, 4/10/20 .......................................................................... 63
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TESTIMONY OF JOHN JOSEPH CADDAN
Q. Mr Malone.
Mr Caddan, what is your full name?
A.
John Joseph Caddan.
Q
What is your age?
A.
Nineteen.
Q
Nineteen now.
A.
I was nineteen on the seventeenth of June.
Q.
Where were you born?
A
Adare, County Limerick
Q.
Where are you living now.
A.
I am living in New York at present.
Q
Where ?
A.
At 63 West Seventh Avenue.
Q Mr Malone:
A.
Are you working in New York now ?
No
POLICE NOW TRAINED FOR WAR RATHER THAN POLICE DUTIES
Q.
What was the date of your enlistment in the R.I.C. ?
A
On the third of February, 1920
Q
And where did you go to take your traming9
A.
In Phoenix Park Depot, Dublin.
Q
And what did your training consist of'?
A
Bomb practice, rifle practice, revolve! firing—all the latest patents in
revolvers, automatic and regular.
Q
A
4
Bomb practice?
Bomb practice
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Q.
Rifle practice?
A.
Yes, sir, rifle practice
Q.
Were you given any police training?
A
Yes, but the police training was not much. You were not compelled to
study very much. I was only three months in the depot
Q.
Where were you assigned first?
A.
To Galway.
Q
What part of Galway?
A.
Galway City.
Q
When ere you assigned to Galway City ?
A.
On the twentieth of May, 1920
•
THE SACKING OF TUAM
Q
What were the conditions in Galway?
A.
Galway City was very quiet until the end of August The first affair that
started things was the sacking of Tuam Galway City being the headquarters
of the County of Galway, troops had to be sent from Galway to the country
outside And then this Tuam affair.
Q.
What affair?
A
The Tuam affair, sic. The men had to go out in motor lorries for sacking
the town Two policemen had been shot out there I was not with them.
Q
Why were you not with them?
A.
I was on light duty at the time I had a severe cold, and stayed in the
barracks. But when they came back, they told all about what they had burned They
said they burned public houses and burned the town hall, and made a general wreck
of the place
Q
Senator Walsh How large is the town of Tuam ?
A
It is a fairly large size town. There is a cathedral there, and the Archbishop of
Galway—about three thousand population, I think.
Q
Senator Walsh Did you see it afterwards—the day afterwards ?
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A
Not the next day. but a few days afterwards.
Q.
Describe what you first saw when you visited it afterwards
A
When I entered Tuam I saw three frame buildings—big buildings—public
houses, I think they were—nothing standing but the walls The town hall,—
the clock was broken out of its place and the town hall was wrecked in
general.
Q
Senator Walsh Was there glass broken in the shops?
A
Oh, yes, indeed
Q
About how many houses were destroyed ?
A
About a dozen on the whole street
Q
Chairman Howe The main sat eet9
A
The Main Street, yes That is what I saw theme
Q
Were any people killed at this sacking of Tuam?
A
No, but there was a man dragged out of bed and threatened to be shot, and
only for the intervention of the head con table in Tuam he would have been
shot.
Q. Mr Malone
The head constable is a member of the R.I.C ?
A
Yes, he is a member of the R.I.C ?
Q
Senator Walsh Why did he stop them')
A
Well, he didn't want to see the man murdered
109
Q.
He was still a policeman to preserve law and order ?
A
Yes, sir.
Q
Did he announce that the man kid done no wrong'
A.
He did
Q Mr. Malone.
A.
6
Do you remember the case of the man Krumm
Yes, Krumm was in Galway
© 2020 Research Patrick Hugh Lynch
TUAM WRECKED AS REPRISAL FOR AMBUSH TEN M I L E S D I S T A N T
Q.
Senator Walsh Wan a moment You say that this was due to two policemen
being shot'
A.
Yes, ambushed
Q.
Now, how long before that night were these policemen ambushed?
A.
They were ambushed about eleven o clock at night
Q.
Eleven o'clock the same night'
A
Yes And at about three o'clock the next morning the sacking began.
Q
Now, where were these men ambushed ?
A
About ten miles outside of Tuam I could not say definite!)
Q
Were these men members of the Royal Irish Constabulary or Black-andTans?
A.
Members of the R.I.C
Q
Did you know t hem ?
A.
No.
Q
No, sir
Q
Were they connected with your station'
Q
Were they in Tuam ?
A
Yes, in Tuam ?
Q
Why were these men murdered, and by whom')
A
I could not say.
Q
Did you learn since ?
A
No.
Q
Had they been offensive to the inhabitants of the town.'
A
I was not stationed in that town and could not say
Q
You do not know?
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A
Yes, sir
Q
Except the fact that there were two killed?
A
Yes, sir, only that there were two killed.
Q
Chairman Howe - Was there a coroner's inquest?
A
No
Q
Senator Walsh. They had been done away with at that time'
A
Yes, they had.
410
DRUNKEN BLACK-AND-TAN CAUSES MURDER, ARSON AND TERROR IN
GALWAY
Q. Mr. Malone
Tell us about this man Krumm, the Black- and-Tan.
A
Krumm was a Black-and-Tan. The Black-and-Tans are something like
soldiers. They wear a soldier's uniform with a black cap and belt, and that is
why they are called Black-and-Tans. This man Krumm was one of the
Black-and-Tans. He was a motor drier stationed in Dunmore, about ten
miles outside of Galway. He was in town about two weeks getting his motor
repaired
Q
About two weeks getting a motor repaired?
A.
Yes, sir, about two weeks He took his time to it. He was a generally reckless
fellow and drank a lot I know of one case that he shot a sheep and brought
him in to the barracks to be cooked.
Q.
You mean that when he got drunk he ran amuck?
A.
Yes, sir, he was very reckless then. This night I saw him with a bottle of
poteen—
Q.
Mr. Witness, tell us to the best of your ability what that is
A
It is what you call mountain dew.
Q Chairman Howe
A.
8
Irish whiskey?
It is made in the mountains out of barley, I think. It is pretty strong stuff.
Well, I saw him w nth this bottle of poteen, and he was passing it around,
and he said that when that bottle was gone he would get another. About
twelve o'clock he went up to the station
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Q
Was he in police clothes'
A
No, he was in civilian clothes. He went up to the station for one of the papers, the
Dublin papers They usually came in on the midnight train. I could not say exactly
what happened at the station, because I was in bed'
Q.
Senator Walsh - Do you know the date of this?
A
It was about September seventh.
Q
He was stationed at your barracks?
A
Yes, sir; he was staying there while he was in town getting his motor
repaired The next thing I knew one of the constables came up and gave the
alarm, and said one of the constables was shot And we all had to get up and
dress and get our carbines. There were about fifty men in the barracks, and
they ran amuck then.
Krumm went to the station, and without provocation whipped out his
revolver and began firing madly, shooting several persons before he was
himself shot by a bystander Sec evidence of three witnesses, pp 83-84,
130-131, 161-162
411
Q.
Tell us what they did.
A.
The whole fifty came out in the streets.
Q.
Under their officers?
A.
No officers, they all came out together. There was a D 1. there, and he
came out with them.
Q.
Who is a D I.?
A.
The district inspector, District Inspector Crewe.
Q.
Mr. Malone. Was he in uniform?
A.
No, he was in plain clothes.
Q Senator Walsh: Were there any Black and-Tans there?
A.
No , al l R . I.C
Q Mr. Malone:
A
9
You say he was in civilian clothes?
Yes, he was.
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Q Senator Walsh:
Did they have motor lorries?
A.
No, they were walking.
Q.
What time of night was this?
A.
That was about one o'clock.
BRODERICKS ORDERED TO REMAIN IN BURNING HOUSE
They went from the barracks up to the house of a man named Broderick and
knocked at the door, and he opened the door, and they demanded his son A couple
of them rushed in and grabbed the candle he had in his hand, and went upstairs to
get his son The son asked time to dress, and they brought him down. While they
were upstairs, sonic other men sprinkled some petrol in the parlor and the hall.
They marched the son down in front of them, and Broderick was told to stand
where he was. The mother was told to stay in the back room where she was, and
Broderick, the father, was ordered to stand in the hall. Then they touched a match
to the house and it flashed up. The women began to scream, and they marched the
son down to the railroad station to shoot him where Krumm had been shot.
Q. Mr Malone
Did they leave Broderick and his wife in the burning house?
A.
Well, they could not get out through the flames very easily.
Q.
They had put petrol about the house?
A.
Yes, they had
Q Senator Walsh: Did they get out?
A.
I was just coming to that. They took the son up toward die station, but he
got away, and they fired after him, and I think wounded him in the leg, but
I am not sure of that. He got away.
412
And then they tinned around and saw a crowd of neighbors trying to put out the
flames. and they fired into the crowd. After that, what they did I did not witness, for
I went back to the barracks, but I heard the next day—the men were telling about it
themselves After that they came to a place where there were two young men in a
house, and went up and demanded them I do not know their names
Q
Two young men in the Broderick house?
A
No, in another house. They brought these young men down to the same
place where Kumm was shot and stood them up against the all theme
One of the men was named Conway, I think The order was given to fire,
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and lust as the order was given, Conway fell for aid on his face, and he
saved his life miraculously.
Q
'Die man fell on his face just as they fired and escaped death? A. Yes
Some of them said. "Let them have another volley," and the leader said,
"No. we lime wasted enough ammunition on them "
Q
To come back to this Broderick case. Was the son a member of the Irish
Republican Army, or was Broderick or was his son implicated in the killing
of that man Krumni9
A
No. I do not think so. They probably knew nothing about him for he was a
new man in the town—he was just in there temporarily
INVESTIGATION AFTER TRAGIC REPRISALS
Q
A
Q
Did your police force make any investigation of the killing of this man
Kiumm ?
They did, afterward,
But not before the killing of this man and the firing of Broderick's house?
A
No, none whate.er
Q.
What happened after this man Krumm left the barracks? You said he had
been drinking before he left
A.
Yes I heard after wards that he left the barracks and stopped for another
drink before he went up to the station He got up to the station platform and
while waiting for a paper fired on the crowd, killing a man and wounding
another.
Senator Walsh Yes,
%se lime heard of that incident from other witness.
413
COMMANDING OFFICER OF POLICE COMMITTING REPRISALS PROMOTED
Q Mr Malone
A
Was District Inspector Crewe 'Hummed after this?
Yes, he was promoted about a week after this
Q Senator Walsh
You were an eye witness to this ?
A.
Yes. I was an eye witness to the setting fire of Broderick house and the
firing into the crowd
Q
Did you participate in any of it?
A
No, I did not
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Q
Was there any officer to lead the military in all this ?
A
No. there was not.
Q
It was Just mob action?
A
It was Just mob action
THE MURDER OF QUIRK
Afterwards they came down to this man's house — Quirk I believe was his name—
and they went in and told him to come out of bed, and did not give him time to
dress and dragged him out and he brought him down to the quay,
Q
What are the quays ?
A
The quays the Galway quays Galway is a seaside place and the quays rim
down to the water They took him, man down and they took him up against
a lamp post and put twenty - seven shots into him
Q
Who was this man Quirk ?
A
I believe he was a Sinn Feiner.
Q
He had nothing to do with the shooting of that Black and Tan at the station?
A
Oh no. of course not. He was at home in bed.
MEN WHO KNOW HOW TO KILL REINFORCE CONSTABULARY
Q Mr Malone
Now, I believe there was a general, a British General, who
came down there.
A
Yes, the next day theme was a British general came down and spoke to us in the day
room
Q
Chairman Howe
A
Because he was so well guarded. He had two motor lorries of soldiers theme
to guard him. He had two other officers with him. The county inspector was
there and two district inspectors, and all
Why do you think he was a general'?
414
the men in the barracks were there And he started to talk about this
business He said, "This country is ruled by gunmen, and they must be put
down " He talked about giving home rule to Ireland, and he said home rule
could not be given until all of these gunmen were put down, and he called
on the R. 1. C to put them down He asked them what they required in the
barracks, and that whatever they wanted he would give them, and that they
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were also going to get a raise in pay. And they said they needed machine
guns, and he said that they would get them, and also tanks and more men—
men who had been in the army during the war and who knew how to shoot
to kill, and he said they would be the right men in the right place
Q.
Who spoke for the Royal Irish Constabulary?
A
There was a sergeant, I think, who did most of the talking But the men
all spoke up and said they needed this and that.
Q
They needed additional protection?
A.
Yes.
Q
Did the y get it?
A.
Yes, there was about two hundred Black-and-Tans sent down to that
barracks They got more money than we did, hut he promised us that we
would get a rise in pay.
Q. Senator Walsh: How much?
A.
Seen shillings a day.
Q
In addition')
A.
Yes, in addition.
Q Chairman Howe
A
In addition to what they were getting?
Yes, sir; that would be forty-nine shillings a week more—
about two pound ten.
LOW CHARACTER OF BLACK-AND-TANS
Q. Mr Malone:
What was the general character of the Black and-Tan s ?
A.
Well, they were generally very careless fellows, and did not give a hang
about what they did. They were mostly over there to enjoy themselves
Q
The Commissioner• Were they mostly young men?
A
They were most all young men
Q.
What was their general character?
A
Some of them were got up for robbery at the depot—at Phoenix Park
And some of them were sent to the lunatic asylum. I believe some of them
were ex-convicts
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415
Q . S e n a t o r W a l s h.
H o w d o yo u k n o w t h a t , — f r o m w h a t t h ey said
about each other?
A.
Y e s , w h a t t h e y s a i d b e t w e e n t h e m s e l v e s . T h e y h a d s e v eral confli cts
in the Depot bet ween the Bl ack-and-Tan s and the Irish troops that
were there, but it did not come out.
Q. Chairman Howe
T h e C o n s t a b u l a r y d i d n o t h a v e v e r y much
respect for the Black-and-Tans?
A
No, O no
Q.
Di d th e y frat erniz e wi th t hem?
A
Th e y h ad a co up l e o f fi g ht s t h e r e
Q
But did they go out together and associate together?
A.
0 n o, t he y di d not as s oci at e t oget her. The y were not fri endly b y an y
m eans . Onl y, of cours e, the y had to go toget her on du t y.
AGE OF CONSTABLES AND BLACK-AND-TANS
Q.
C om mis si oner Ad dam s• Ho w old m us t you h e before yo u can become
a m em ber o f the R oyal Iri s h Co ns t abul ar y ?
A
At least eighteen.
Q.
Ei ght een?
A.
Yes
Q.
W er e m an y o f yo u r m en as yo u n g as t h a t ?
A.
N o , I d o n ' t b e l i e v e t h e y w e r e . If yo u r f a t h e r h a d s e r v e d on t he force
yo u cou ld j oi n at ei gh t een. If h e di d not, ni net een is the limit
Q.
Ho w o l d wer e m o s t of t he m en on t he fo rce?
A
Th e y vari ed great l y. Twent y-fi ve i s about t he a average, I think
Q. S en at or W al s h. Ho w ol d arc the Bl ack-and-Tans?
A
O h , v a r i o u s a g e s S o m e o f t h e B l a c k - a n d - T a n s w e r e u p t o forty.
Q.
H o w m a n y B l a c k - a n d - T a n s w e r e i n t h e b a r r a c k s b e f o r e you
resigned?
A.
T h e r e w a s o n l y o n e , K r u m m , a n d h e w a s o n l y t h e r e f o r two weeks.
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Q. Sen ator Walsh But you sa y the y were p romis ed?
A.
Yes, but they came afterwards
Q
S o t hat yo u have n o knowl edge of t hem whi l e you w er e i n that
barracks?
A.
N o , s i r . B u t w h i l e I w a s t h e r e t h e y s t o c k e d u p t h e c a n teen in the
barracks for their coming.
116
GOVERNMENT BAR IN BARRACKS KEEPS MEN SODDEN
Q.
Was there a canteen in your barracks?
A
Yes
Q.
When you were you on the force?
A
Ye-, when I was on the force.
Q
Did they always have that in the Irish Constabulary barracks ?
A
Oh. no
Q Senator Walsh
Was that one of the new munitions of war9
A
Yes it was that.
Q.
When did they open up canteens in the Royal Irish Constabulary barracks
?
A.
About a year ago
Q.
So for about a year they have served liquor in the barracks of the R.I.C ?
A.
Ye s
Q
What kind of liquor?
A
Lots of liquor, Bass ale, Guinness stout, , and lots mote
Q
Were there any restrictions on the amount of it an officer could get ?
A
No no restrictions. They were up there, most of them, most of the night
drinking
Q
Di d th e y dri nk befo re go i ng on dut y ?
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A
Yes .
Q
To what ext ent does t h at exi st t hro ugh out Irel an d'
A
I coul d n 't s a y, s i r but i t was comm o n where I was
Q.
W ho ru ns t hi s cant een ?
A
It is run b y the R. I.C.
Q
By the permission of the Government?
A
Yes, by the permission of the Government
Q
And I suppose there is some clerk in charge ?
A
There is a constable in charge. He is sitting there at all times
Q
And there is no limit to what you can bu y in quantit y or quality ?
A
No limit,—no limit at all Nos the next night alter Krumm was shot, curfew
was enforced in Galway
Q Senator Walsh
Very good, but this is very important. You were there in
that barracks how long ?
A
About three months.
Q
You say there were fifty Men there ?
117
A
Yes , fi ft y m en
Q
How man y of them were drinking, men ?
A.
0 the whole lot of them except myself
Q.
It mac a fine atmosphere for a nineteen-Near-old boy to go into
A
Ye s ch a rm i n g
Q.
And all there men weir instantl y in touch with a saloon in the barracks ?
A
Yes.
Q Mr Malone
S e n a t o r , w o ul d yo u a s k t h e w i t n e s s i f t he y s old what is
known as hard liquor in the barracks*,
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A.
Th e Wi tn ess Hard liquor? The y s o l d all ki nds of li quo r that are sold in
lreland.
Q
Senator Walsh
A
Is there anything else besides liquor sold ?
0 yes. there is bread and clackers and things like that also
Q.
Now, to just that extent and how continuously were these men under the
influence of liquor ?
A
Well, during their idle time. Some of them had only four hours' duty
during the day The rest of the time they usually had liquor in them
Q
So that their life consisted of doing then duty on the streets of the city
and spending then spare time in the liquor store in the barracks and in
bed''
A
Yes, and in bed.
RESIGNED CONSTABLE FLOGGED BY BLACK-AND- T A N S
Q
Mr. Malone After the Tuam affair, do you remember the affair of the constable
who resigned
A
Well, yes, that was nut in Tuam. I was not a witness to it
This man, his name was Roddy, had resigned in Tuam after the town was
wrecked, and took a position with the city council. A short time after the
Black-and-Tans went to his home and got him and brought him out to the
lime pits near the town, and they flogged him And then some lime after
they did that, they flogged hint again, and told ruin to clear out of the town
with his wife and family, which he had to do
Q
You say he got a job on the cit y council
A.
Yes, after he resigned, he got a job on the city council,— that is, the Sinn
Fein county council
REASON FOR RESIGNING FROM CONSTABULARY
Q.
What were the reasons for his resigning from the R.I.C.
A.
Probably about the same as mine.
Q.
What were your reasons for resigning?
A.
Well, I couldn't stop in such surroundings.
Q. Senator Walsh What was that?
A.
17
I didn't fancy the way they were treating the people.
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Q.
The work was too dirty for you?
A.
0, yes The things they used to be doing, I could take no part in them
DRINKS AND EXTRA PAY FOR MEN ON RAIDS
Q. Senator Walsh:
You said something about this raid on Galway. The
curfew was applied?
A.
Yes, the night after the raid the curfew was applied from nine o'clock to
three in the morning
Q.
Now, just what does that mean'
A.
Nobody but the military and police could be out from 9 P. M to 3 A. M.
This night they went out. There was an armored car and a military officei
and two police from the barracks, and they went out firing shots, and
what they call "clear. ing the streets "
Q Senator Walsh: That was the first night of the curfew law?
A.
The first night of the curfew law. And when they came in they were all
treated to a drink by the district inspector. And the next night there was
the same thing,—they went out firing into the streets again.
Q.
This was the Black-and-Tans?
A.
No, the R. I. C.
Q Senator Walsh: For the record, how large is the city of Galway'
A.
It's a fairly large city, with a population of about ten thousand, I think
Q. Chairman Howe
What are the Black-and-Tans,—what nationality?
A.
They are English.
Q.
How about the officers'
A.
They are mostly ex-officers of the English army. They come over and get
the position of sergeant as Black-and-Tans. They get more money than
the R.I.C. get. They get something like one pound seven a day now.
Q
Did they get extra money when they went on a raid?
119
A
18
Th e y get ex t ra m one y wh en t he y a re c al l ed out of t h e barracks
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Q.
In addition to their per diem, they get extra money when they go out of
the barracks on raids?
A.
Yes, when they go out on raids
Q. M r. M al one
A.
That i s overt i m e?
Yes, overtime.
Q. Chairman Howe
How did it happen that there was onl y that one Blackand-Tan in the barracks?
A.
Well, he was only in for two weeks to get his motor repaired in Galway.
Q
What town were you born in ?
A.
At Adare, County Limerick
Q
How l arge a town?
A
1 could not tell you.
Q.
Did you spend your childhood there ?
A.
Oh, no. I was only about three months there.
Q
Where did you spend your time up to the time of joining the
Constabulary?
A.
I lived in Cork City, and went to school in Waterford City
Q
Di d you t r avel arou n d Irel and m uch?
A.
Yes, my father used to be transferred around
Q.
And what was his position?
A
He was sergeant.
Q
In the R.I.C. ?
A
In the R.I.C.
GENERAL CONDITIONS IN IRELAND
Q.
What was the general condition of Ireland and as you went around from
town to town?
A.
The general condition in Cork was curfew at ten o'clock, when you had to
be in
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Q Senator Walsh. But he means prior to this trouble
A.
Well, I don't know much about it
Q.
Mr Malone Mr. Witness, will you tell us where you were when you joined
the R I C ?
A
I joined in London.
Q.
What were you doing then ?
A.
I had gone to Liverpool and Manchester and London.
Q.
What were you doing?
A.
Looking for work there
Q.
So you thought you would join your father's profession'
120
A
Yes, but I never intended In stay in it. Just joined to get over to lreland again
Q Senator Walsh When did you leave Ireland')
A
I left Ireland on November fifth
Q
And when did you resign from the R.I.C ?
A
In September.
Q
So you were dining the month of October and to November fifth free ?
A.
Yes, free
Q
Did you spend that month in lreland ?
A
Yes.
Q.
Did you observe conditions in lreland in other places than Galway?
A.
Yes, I was down in Cork for the funeral of the Loid Lord Mayor
MacSwiney
Q.
Did you remain there up to November fifth?
A
Yes, I remained there up to November fifth
Q.
Just what were the conditions in Cork down to November fifth?
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A.
Curfew was enforced, and you must be in by ten o'clock
Then the military would come around in motor lorries about five minutes to
ten, and anybod y who is taught out has not a safe chance for his life,
because he might be shot on sight.
Q Senator Walsh. Do they shoot when they come our'
A.
Yes, they generally shoot
Q
I suppose that is nonce that the curfew law is on?
A
Yes
Q Mr Malone
A
What about the Black Thorn house ?
Oh, the Black Thorn house was not destroyed in my time there. The city
hall was destroyed, and the Black Thorn house, after my coining away.
The witness was thereupon excused.
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421
TESTIMONY OF DANIEL GALVIN
Q. Mr. Malone: Your name
Daniel Galvin?
A Yes, Daniel Galvin.
Q And your address
A 114 West 102d Street, New York City
Q Where were you horn'
A. In Gerryman, County Kelly, Ireland, in December, 1887.
That would be thirty-three years ago this month.
THIRTEEN YEARS' SERVICE IN CONSTABULARY
Q How long ago did you loin the R. I. C ?
A
I joined the twenty-first of October, 1907
Q When did you resign
A
The twenty-first of July last, this year
Q. You were then in the service about thirteen yea's?
A. Yes, thirteen years, lacking a month or so.
Q Where did you get your training?
A
In Dublin. in the Phoenix Park training school there.
Q. When
A. In 1 9 0 7
Q What did your training consist of there?
A. Three hours of drill, gymnastics, school, and police duties.
Q
Where have you served in Ireland in these nearly thirteen years?
A I left the Phoenix training School barracks five months after I entered, and was
transferred to Gort in County Galway I was there about two months
Q Where did you go from there?
A To a station called Tubber in County Galway
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Q. Where did you go from there?
A 1 remained in Galway until I came on to Tipperary. I spent fire years in Galway
I applied to get nearer home I applied for Cork East or Cork West, but I was refused,
because it was adjoining my native county And they said that if I wanted to go to Tipperary,
it would be at my own expense. I applied for Tipperary, South Riding, and was transferred
in May, 1912
Q Where have you been since then?
A I have been in a district called Weyl in County Tipperary
Q. Where else were you stationed ?
A. I was stationed at a place in Tipperary called Kilialoan that is about three miles outside of
Clonmel.
Q Were you stationed at Clogheen?
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422
A. Yes, I was at Clogheen about six months before I resigned.
Q And at Ballyporeen also?
A. Yes, Clogheen was my permanent station, but I was sent to Ballyporeen,
Tipperary.
Q. Were you in Clogheen while Mr Crowley was there?
A Yes.
Q. Did you hear his testimony?
A. Yes
Q. Do you know that all of the testimony he gave is true?
A. Yes, it is true 1 can give you my own version of it
ABSOLUTE RELIGIOUS HARMONY IN SOUTH IRELAND
Q. I want to ask you this. in all the years that you have served in the RIC in Ireland, what do
you know of the relations between Catholics and Protestants?
A As a general rule in the south of Ireland the Protestants are the most
prosperous people there In many cases I would rather deal with the Protestants than
with the Catholics.
Q. In other words, you have never heard of any differences whatever between them?
A. I have traveled a good deal all over Ireland, south and west and east, and in
my own native county, County Kerry, and I have never heard of any trouble
between the people on account of any religious differences whatever in those
sections.
REMARKABLE ABSENCE OF CRIME
Q What would you say about Ireland as a peaceful country?
A It is a very peaceful country, sir.
Q. Did you have any difficult experiences with the people in pursuing your duties
as a member of the Royal Irish Constabulary?
A No, sir. Nobody ever made any insulting remark to me in all the thirteen years of my
service.
Q Were there any serious crimes?
A
No, sir.
Q. Any minor offenses?
A
Nothing serious. Just petty larceny or something like that.
Q Chairman Howe how many murders did you come in contact with?
A. There was just one case in County Galway in the land trouble there. That
was in 1907.
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423
Q. Just one case of murder in all your experience ?
A
Yes, that is right, sir
Q How about felonies and serious offenses?
A. No
Nothing like that Just petty cases.
Q. What do you mean by petty offenses?
A Petty cases like drunkenness.
Q Hos about stealing?
A. Very, very limited in the country
Q How about burglary ?
A. No, very little I have never known of any ease of burglary u here I was called
upon to act.
Q. Were there any cases reported to your precinct?
A 0 there may be a case of petty larceny,—that a case of petty larceny like the
stealing of tools or picks.
Q. But of the major climes, there has been only one case come to your attention in
thirteen years?
A. Yes, one case in thirteen years
Q And drunken brawls,—arc they frequent?
A. Not in these days They used to be in 1910, 1911, or 1913, but not nowadays.
Q. What was there fin nine thousand of die Dotal Irish Constabulary in Ireland
to do if there u as no crime?
A Well, they are distributed all over the country. There were not nearly so many as that
there until the last few years I remember only three years ago u hen there was only three
men in the station here I was in County Tipperary.
Q. The town of Tipperary?
A No, the Count y I was in a small place
LITTLE NEED OF A POLICE FORCE TO MAINTAIN ORDER
Q. Chairman Howe• How about the relations of Protestants and Catholics? Did they
meet in a friendly way 9 Did they visit one another's houses9
A. I know of a case where the Catholic priest and the Protestant minister went out
fishing together, and also shooting together
Q When you say shooting together, you mean hunting?
A I m ean fouli ng.
Q. Do they intermarry?
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A. Not very much.
Q. But they were friendly with each other? They were neighbourly?
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424
A. Yes, certainly One man's gun would be out of order, and another man would
lend his gun to him
Q They traded at one another's stores, did they?
A. Yes, indeed
QIn other words, prior to 1918, there was very little disorder?
A Yes, and after. and up to the present time there is very little need, as far as
the people are concerned, of a police force
POLICE MILITARIZED AFTER REPUBLICAN ELECTION VICTORY
Q Mr. Malone. Now, Mr. Galvin, tell me in what way did your duties as a
policeman change by orders after the elections of 1918?
A They were changed until I was simply only a soldier when I left the police
force I had to carry arms and bombs and the like I had to lane my rifle beside me
at nights in bed We were all behind barbed wire, and with thirty or forty bombs
used sometimes at nights from the police station
FAIRS, MARKETS, AND PUBLIC ASSEMBLIES PROHIBITED
Q. Where do you date the first disorders in your district9
A. I remember that in July, 1919—that was last year—the County of
Tipperary was proclaimed a prohibited district by the Lord Lieutenant. That
required an additional force of police That was according to English law then
They transferred police or R I C. from different portions of Ireland, even from the
west of Ireland, and from the next counties, to South Riding Fairs and markets
and public meetings and assemblies and so forth were to be prohibited, although
Clogheen and portions of the South Riding were very quiet.
Q. Did the prohibition of fairs and markets interfere with the normal life of the people'?
A. 0 yes, very much. because they had no way of selling their produce.
DISRUPTION OF LIFE OF PEOPLE PRECEDES DISORDERS
Q. Was it after the normal life of the people had been disturbed that the
disorders began'
A. Yes, it was not until some time in April, 1919, that a handled of the military
arrived from Manchester.
Q. Did you ever know of any attacks by the people on the police up to the
time you are stating non 9
A No, not at any place.
Q What is your business now?
A I am a watchman in New York City.
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REASON FOR RESIGNING FROM CONSTABULARY
Q. Why did you resign from the R. I. C.'
A. Well, simply because I did not like the system that they have at the present
time. When I first joined, it was different then I did not have any arms then Of
course, they had arms then, but at the same time I never took them out null me on
duty. the same as I had to do the last seen in eight months We had the arms, but they
were simply for show purposes
Q Mr Malone: In other words, when the R I C was changed from a police force
into a military force, that N% as your season for leaving? '
A That was sufficient
Q. Were you not entitled to a pension')
A 0 yes, I certainly would have been entitled to a pension in two years' more, in
fifteen years, if I got out on a medical certificate. Or at twenty-file years I would
have been entitled to one-half of my pay, and two-thirds on thirty yea's' service
ARMED INVASION OF CHURCH SERVICES TO INCITE PEOPLE
Q Senator Walsh You nine in the station u ith the young man who was here who
testified about the order to go to church on Sundays?
A. Yes, I remember that order
Q Did you ever go to chinch in a squad before ?)
A Yes, I went once
Q Non. was that order compelling men to go armed to Church for the purpose of
showing military authority in the church, or
426
was it simply a regulation in regard to each individual's conduct when he went
to church?
A. M y belief was that the order was simply to incite the people
Q. Where did you stand when you went to church?
A. You were supposed to go up to the altar aisle.
Q. And two men went up with rifles?
A. Two men went up with rifles, and two with carbines
Q. Where did the other two men stand?
Q
A. The other two men stood near the door.
Did you stand during the entire service?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you march behind the people in coming out of the church?
A. I marched behind about fifteen yards.
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Q. After the people went out, did you walk down the center aisle of the church'?
A. Yes, the people went out first
Q Was that a general order?
A It was a general order for all Ireland, because it came from Dublin Castle
Q So that there was at that time and is now as far as you know military control
over the church during church service?
A
Yes, sir, that was the general impression of the people there
Q. Commissioner Addams Now, if a man was not going to church that
morning, did they confine some in the barracks9
A. Yes, half of the party were confined.
Q. So that every time there was a church service some would he there?
A. Yes, some would remain in the barracks.
Q. Mr. Malone. About Richards, the Black-and-Tan.
Senator Walsh: Who was that?
A. Richards, the BIack -and-Tan.
Q. Senator Walsh: I would also like to ask him about the canteen. Did you have
any canteen in the barracks?
A There was in the larger cities like Cork and Limerick and Galway. Ours was
a small barrack.
Q. You had only a few men in your barracks, so it would not pay, I suppose?
A. Yes, sir. It was an old custom in the large cities.
427
BLACK-AND-TANS LICENSED TO SHOOT ANY SINN FEINER WITHOUT
DISCIPLINE
Q. Mr. Malone: About the Richards incident
A. Well, Crowley and a man named Grady and myself, we were sent out on patrol
duty with these two Black-and-Tans. We had revolvers and Gillette and Richards
had carbines About a mile outside of Clogheen there was a man named Walsh,
who was supposed to he in sympathy with the Republican movement, and Richards
demanded that we show him where Walsh lived We wanted to know what he
wanted with Walsh, and lie said he was going to shoot him And we refused to
show him where Walsh lived. And he turned wound to us and demanded that we
do our duty and show Inin the place And we reminded him that he was not in the
army now; he was on the police force. And lie said that when he left the training
depot he was told that he would not be subjected to any discipline whatever if he
shot any Sinn Feiners He went about ten yards down the road and turned and said
he would shoot me if I didn't show him where Walsh lived. Then we turned back
to the barracks. We had not gone far when Richards fired at us. When I got back to
the barracks with the men, I reported him to the sergeant, and he said he had
committed a felony for threatening the Ines of three men. He was confined to
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barracks for a few days, and then sent back to England, and then he came Back to
the R I C.'s again under an assumed name.
LOW CHARACTER OF BLACK-AND-TANS
Q What is your opinion of the character of the Black-and-Tans in Ireland today?
A We did not mix with them We had as little to do with them as we could To a great
extent the people know what kind of people they are.
(The witness was thereupon excused.)
Chairman Howe: The next hearings are set for next Wednesday, in case the
witnesses can be secured by that time. If not, the next hearings will be held here on
Thursday. There are some witnesses who are coming from England and are now on
the Baltic, and will he here by then We will meet here, unless there is some
contrary notice in the press, next Wednesday morning at ten o'clock
Thereupon, at 4. 10 p. in, the Commission adjourned.
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376
TESTIMONY OF DANIEL FRANCIS CROWLEY
Chairman Howe Proceed, Mr Malone, please
Q. Mr D F Malone What is your full name please?
A. Daniel Francis Crowley.
Q W h e r e w e r e yo u h o r n ?
A
I was born at Bohocoglin, County Kerry, Ireland.
Q How old are you?
A. Twenty-three years
Q. When did you enlist in the Royal Irish Constabulary'?
A. I enlisted in March, 1916. I presented my name for appointment in March,
1916 and I was called out on the third of July, 1917.
THE TRAINING OF A POLICE RECRUIT
Q And after you were railed out, where did you go for traming
A To the Phoenix Park Barracks in Dublin
Q. How long did you remain there?
A
I remained there until the eighteenth of January, 1918.
Q. Senator Walsh
Why not bring out how long he has been connected with the
Royal Irish Constabulary? When did he resign?
Mr. D. F. Malone. 0 yes. How long were you connected with the R. I. C.?
A. I tendered my resignation on the first day of June last. Senator Walsh. Very
good Nos go back to the training.
Q Mr. D F. Malone While at this Phoenix Park Training Camp, what training
did you receive?
377
A. Training in infantry drill, gymnastics, and ordinary police duties.
Q. Did you have bayonet practice?
A Just a little
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Q. How much?
A. Something about five or six days' practice altogether.
Q. Were you trained in the use of hand grenades and bombs!
A That was in March, 1919. It was in March of this year that 1 was trained in
the use of bombs
Q. So that training you got at a later period?
A Yes.
Q The trading you got at the Phoenix Park Camp war training for a policeman?
Is that correct?
A. Yes, training for a policeman.
Q. What were the instructions given you, vet) generally and very briefly, with
regard to the use of firearms'
A. The instructions I was given when I was trained in Dublin was that a policeman
should never resort to the use of firearms at all, except in case he was attacked.
Q. Except in self-defense'
A. Yes
Q What firearms were you equipped with?
A
A carbine, like what is called a revolver
Q.
A carbine or revolver and what else? A. A sw in d Q. A sword''
A. Yes
POLICE ARMED FOR AGGRESSIVE WAR IN 1919
Q Was that equipment added to later on?
A I b eg yo ur pardon
Q Were you given any additional equipment later, during those three years?
A Well, lat er on we were su pplied with bombs and hand grenades and rockets.
Q. And you said you were trained in the use of these bombs and hand grenades in
March, 19199
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A. Yes.
Q And you had been in the service then for three years?
A. Two years.
Q. What was your home?
A County Clare.
Q When you were assigned to police duty, you were assigned to police duties
there?
A No, I was sent to County Tipperary.
Q
Is there a rule in the Royal Irish Constabulary with regard to the assignment
of men for service in their ow n counties9
378
A
No, you cannot serve in your native county.
Q
Can you serve in counties neighboring your 014,11 county?
A
Well, on some occasions you can.
Q
It depends upon the circumstances'
A
Yes
Q
What was your lust post9
A
My first post was Clogheen, County Tipperary
Q
Did you serve there throughout your three years?
A
Yes, I served in this district while I was there
Q
When you say that district, what do you mean?
A
I mean that I was stationed about three miles from these in a place called
Ballylooby.
Q. And you were stationed in this town?
A Yes, and in Clogheen
Q So that you were always within a short radius?
A. Yes, a short radius
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Q
Was Clogheen a peaceful city ?
A. Yes, sir, very
COMPLETE ABSENCE OF SERIOUS CRIMES
Q Throughout your service as a member of the Royal Irish Constabulary. did you
ever have to make an arrest or serve a warrant there?
A No, I never arrested a person there during my time, and I never issued a
summons against any person
Q. Chairman Howe Develop that a little, will you, Mr Crowley')
Mr. D F Malone: Did you ever know of any serious crimes committed by any member
of the population while you were there9
A No, there was no serious crime committed by any member of the population
Q Do you remember that incident of pett y theft which you told me? •
A 0 yes Mr Talbot, the Protestant minister in Clogheen—his fishing rod was
stolen, and he reported the matter to the police sergeant, and the police sergeant
could not find his fishing rod for him And then he reported it to the Irish
Volunteers, and the Irish Volunteers got his fishing rod back for him. And the
consequence was that he said that the police service in Ireland was useless, and
that the Volunteers were far better.
379
ABSOLUTE RELIGIOUS HARMONY
Q What was the religious feeling between the people there?
A The religious peace was very great.
Q So that you never knew of any disputes between the people on matters of
religion?
A 0, no
Q Chairman Howe. Did they trade with one another freely'
A. 0 yes
Q. Did the) go to each other's houses freely 9
A. 0, yes, sir.
Q. Mr. I) F Malone How many Protestants there9
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A
About thirty Protestants.
Q. Senator Walsh. Did they hold any public offices
A. Clogheen being a small place, sir, there was no public office there foi them
Q M r D F M al on e. How m an y cons t ab l es wer e t h ere i n the barracks?
A Five, Four constables and a sergeant
Q. About how many square miles'
A About fourteen thousand, c01ering the district around Clogheen.
Q. Not fourteen thousand square miles?
A. Oh, no. Fourteen thousand acres, I mean
Q During the period of three years there were no serious crimes committed?
A. No. sir, no serious crimes
Q Nothing more serious than the theft of a fishing rod?
A. Nothing more serious That is all, sir
Q Mr Crowley, you said there were about thirty Protestants, and there was a
Protestant clergyman. And was there a Catholic priest for the entire diocese there?
A Yes, Father O'Donnelly and two curates
Q What was the relation between the Protestant minister and the Catholic priest?
A They lived on very friendly terms
Q The population of Clogheen is about six hundred?
A Yes, the population is about six hundred
Q And the general area, inclusive of Clogheen?
A. Including the district of Clogheen, which Clogheen took I think about two
thousand—that is, the surrounding lands which went with the village in the police
district.
380
GENERAL LUCAS ORDERS SINN FEINERS SUMMARILY SHOT
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Q. Do you remember the period of time when Lord Mayor MacCurtam of Cork was
shot?
A Yes, I do.
Q Do you know what the 'alders issued to police immediately before and
continuing for a time after that murder were?
A Yes The orders issued where I was stationed in Clogheen by General Lucas, who
commanded the military forces of Cork and Tipperary, were that if two police
could be spared to go with the military, they were to go on an armored car with a
machine gun, and they were to patrol the country night and day, and every man
who took a prominent part in the Sinn Fein movement they were to stand up in
front of his house and turn the machine gun on it. In this armored car there were
put one hundred twenty cans of petrol and also one hundred twenty Mills bombs,
and the reason for this was that they were for burning houses That was the orders
which General Lucas, who was afterwards kidnapped at Fermoy, gave in the
barracks If they found a Sinn Feiner, they were to turn the machine gun on him
Q Chairman Howe On him or on his house2
A. On anything that belonged to him.
Q. Did you hear these instructions issued yourself?
A. Yes, I was in the barracks when he issued them
Q. Were those general orders carried out?
A. The military earned them out I did not, as did also two other men who protested
against it. I remember that on the night of May 2Ist myself and Constables Kirwan
and Galvin—Mr. Calvin will also speak here—we were sent out on a night patrol,
and two Black-and-Tans named Mr Hardy and Gillett were with us And about nine
o'clock Richards said he wanted us to show him where Maurice Walsh and William
Joseph Condon lived, that he was going to shoot them. Condon was chairman of the
Clogheen District Council. The only reason for shooting them was that the Sunday before
these men had said at a meeting of the Council that Clogheen was such a peaceful
district that they could well get on without the military stationed there. There were
one hundred of the military stationed there then. It was a peaceful district, and so
Walsh and Condon protested against such a lot of military stationed there The acts of
the military were something disgraceful.
381
DISGRACEFUL ACTS OF MILITARY
Q. Describe what you mean by "the acts of the military were something disgraceful "
A. Well, I have seen them stop two girls of the town coming to the Rosary at halfpast six in the evening, and they said to the girls, "Hands up," and knocked them
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down And I came to their rescue and said, "Stop, they are innocent girls" And I
surely believe that if I had not been there, they would have been brutally assaulted.
Q. What other ac is dud you witness that make you believe that the acts of the
military were something disgraceful'?
A. They were so disgraceful that Mr. Talbot, the Protestant minister at Clogheen,
wrote to Dublin Castle saying that their act and deeds in Clogheen were something
shameful, this Devonshire regiment, and he got them sent out of the district.
Q. You said that these Black-and-Tans went out to kill this man Walsh and the other
man. What did you have to do with it?
A. They did not know where these two men lived. They only wanted me and this
man Galvin to show them where these two men lived. They would go and shoot
them, they said, and bring back their ears as evidence to the barracks. We would not
show them, and turned back to the barracks, and begged Richards to come back to
the barracks. Richards got behind a blackthorn fence. We begged him to come on
back with us. He said that if we came one step nearer, he would blow our brains
out. We went on down the road, and when we were only about two hundred yards
away, he fired several shots at us—when we were only two hundred yards away.
Q Commissioner Addams: Were those men killed afterwards?
A. No The next day I went into the village and told Walsh and Condon what
Richards had done, that he wanted me and Galvin to show diem where these men
lived so that they could shoot them. It went out publicly then, what these Black-andTans, who were the only ones in the barracks, wanted to do. And they heard of it,
and Gillett pointed his loaded revolver at me three times and wanted to shoot me.
And I guess they would have shot me, but there was an Irish sergeant there, and they
were afraid to do it.
Q How many Black-and-Tans were there in your barracks9
A Just three of them.
Q Chairman Howe And how many of the Royal Irish Constabulary9
A. There were five, sir.
382
Q Senator Walsh And one hundred military?
A Yes, one hundred military
Q Who controls the Black-and-Tans there?
A Since March last the Black-and-Tans are under military orders
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Q So since Mardi last the Black-and-Tans and the military are the same thing?
A. Yes
Q. Mr D F Malone You said that Mr Walsh and Mr Condon were not killed ?
A
No, they are still there
Q. Did they not go on the run?
A. No, they are still in Clogheen.
Q Commissioner Adams - I would like to ask about the two girls whom the Blackand-Tans commanded to throw up their hands What happened to them9
A
Well, on this evening an English soldier and six Black-and Tans shouted at the
girls, "Hands up! ' and the) began to search them And I came on them and said,
"Stop, stop. They are innocent girls!"
Q But you had no proof that they had evil notices. One man like yourself could not
stop them if they had
The Witness But what right did they have to assault the girls?
Q Senator Walsh But there was no attempt to rape? Their clothes were not
disheveled.'
A. No, there was no rape. But they were searching them, and then clothes were
disheveled
Commissioner Addams. We have had no testimony of that kind and we want to be
positive
Mr D F Malone But the girls were knocked down Commissioner Addams He did
not say they were knocked down, but that they were told to throw up their hands.
The Witness. No, one of them, a Miss Barrett, had fallen down in the road
Q Chairman Howe You were in uniform?
A. Yes
Q And you knew these men?
A. Yes, I knew all of them
Q The) were stationed in the barracks with you?
A Yes, in the same barracks
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Q Mr D. F Malone What was the reason for stationing so many of the military
in a peaceful district like Clogheen?
383
A. Well, they were trying to stir the people up, it seems to me.
Q
So that as far as your business goes, the military there in this peaceful district only
started the people up ?
A
Yes, sir.
MURDER OF POLICE WHO RESIGN
Q. Did you know of any police murders after police had reA Yes, I know of a Constable Fahey stationed at Adare, in County Limerick. The
rule of the Government is that a man must give from duce to six weeks' notice before he
can resign. This man Fahey was out on duty one day after he had sent in his resignation.
Three Black-and-Tans were with him, and when they came back they said that they were
attacked by Sinn Feiners and Fahey was killed None of them had been injured, and
they had not arrested anybody.
Q Senator Walsh. By whom was he killed?
A They said he was attacked by Sinn Feiners
Q They were safe themselves'?
A. Yes, they were all right.
Q Did yo u s ee t hi s
A No, sir
DESTRUCTION OF HOMES OF REPUBLICAN SYMPATHIZERS
Q. Commissioner Thomas. You said that this general gave orders for the homes and
property of Republican sympathizers to be destroyed. How many houses and hay ticks
were destroyed where you were?
A. Well, none were destroyed around Clogheen
Q None in Clogheen?
A. No, sir. But there were in other parts of Ireland.
Q Why were none destroyed in Clogheen'
A. Because the people were so quiet there The people there were in favor of the
military and police going out of Ireland They were not wanted there.
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Q Mr. D F. Malone This General Lucas, who was kidnapped, was treated very sell
when he was kidnapped, was he not?
A. I do not know
The Commission • That is beyond his knowledge.
Mr. D F Malone: Mr. Chairman, may we get this cleared up to answer Mr. Thomas'
question?
384
Chairman Howe Yes
Mr D F Malone to Commissioner Thomas) Did you understand that the people were
not attacked because they were so quiet?
Commissioner Thomas Yes. that is, because the people were so quiet
Q Mr. D F Malone Do you remember the incident of the raid on Mrs Walsh's
home'
A Yes, I do.
Q. Who was MN Walsh?
A Mrs Walsh lived about two and a half miles from Clogheen. Her husband died
in May last.
Q.
Wait a minute, Mr. Crowley. Had Mrs. Walsh any family?
A. Yes, she had three little children, the eldest being about ten years.
Q Where did she live9
A. At Castlegrace.
Q What h appened?
A On different occasions the military would raid her house, sometimes at twelve
o'clock and sometimes at two It got so bad that she complained to County
Inspector Langhorne, the county police inspector for the South of Ireland, and he
said it was too bad, but lie could do nothing for her, because the military were not
under the control of the police inspector
Q. The Commissioner- Who earned this on9
A. The military and the Black-and-Tans.
Q Commissioner Addams: Why did they raid this house?
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A Because they suspected that the Volunteers were training around there. But
they never found anything in the house on any of the raids—not anything.
Q. Commissioner Wood; Were you there?
A. I was there on one occasion, and refused to go into the Walsh house.
Q.
Did you hear reports about it?
A Yes, I heard reports in the barracks when they got back, and also heard of it
from the Walshs themselves.
REASON FOR RESIGNING FROM CONSTABULARY
Q Mr Malone. Do the Royal Irish Constabulary and the Black-and-Tans get along
very well together9
A No, they do not. Inspector General Smith, Deputy Inspector Geddis, Mm Pierce,
and several others, and five hundred men of the rank', tendered their resignations
from the force during April
385
and May because of the present conditions that ale disgracing the service.
Q. Out of how many ?
A. Out of nine thousand men
Q. The Royal Irish Constabulary are not used any mote alone now? A. The R. I C.
are not used to carry out these military orders
The Black-and-Tans do that.
Q. Mr. Crowley, after you resigned, were any attempts made against your life?
A. Yes, after I tendered my resignation, the Black-and-Tans put loaded revolvers up
and backed me up there against the walls and threatened to shoot me.
Q. Commissioner Wood For what reason?
A. Because I had told Mr. Walsh and Condon that they were going to shoot them.
Q. Chairman Howe. Where were these Black-and-Tans from, from England?
A. Yes, from England; most all ex-army men.
Q. Were they officers from the tanks, or of the office class'?
A. Most of them were from the ranks, or petty officers
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Q. Mr. Malone: Why did you tender your resignation from the Royal Irish
Constabulary?
A. I tendered my resignation from the Constabulary because of the misgovernment
of the English in Ireland
POLICE ORDERED TO SHOOT SINN FEINERS AT SIGHT
Q. Do you remember the incident at Listowel Barracks, in County Kerry, when
Colonel Smyth made an address to the members of the R.I.C ?
A. Yes, a friend of mine was one of the Constabulary there Colonel Smyth was
them He had just come over from Germany, from the Army of Occupation. There
were eighteen or twenty of the Constabulary there, and Colonel Smyth told them
that they were going to get plenty of soldiers from England to crush out Sinn Fein,
and that three of them were to remain in the Listowel barracks as guides for the
soldiers and the rest were to go to the outlying barracks and point out Sinn Femers
to the military, and every man who took part in the Sum Fein movement was to be
shot at sight.
386
Q. Senator Walsh When was that ?
A. That was i n Apri l. I t hi nk.'
Q Mr. D F. Malone In April, 1920?
A
April, 1920.
Q Just repeat what he said.
A
Colonel Smyth told the police that they were all going to get every assistance
from the Government—soldiers and machine guns and armored cars and everything
they needed—and they were to patrol the roads five nights a week, and they were not
to confine themselves to the roads, but to go across country, and search homes
wherever they thought arms and munitions were hid
Q You stated what Colonel Smyth said to do to any man who was suspected of being of
Republican sympathies
A. Yes, any man who was suspected of having Sinn Fem sympathies was to be shot
at sight, Colonel Smyth said the more the merrier, and that no man would get into
any trouble for shooting them He said any man who would not carry out these
orders had better get off the force. Sergeant Sullivan spoke immediately and said
that they could tell Colonel Smyth must be an Englishman by his talk, and that they
would not obey such orders; and he took off his coat and cap and belt and laid
them on the table. Colonel Smyth and the Inspector, O'Shea, ordered him to be
arrested for causing disaffection in the force, but nineteen of them stood up and
said if a man touched him, the room would run red with blood The soldiers whom
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Colonel Smyth had with him came in, but the constables got their loaded rifles off
the racks, and Colonel Smyth and the soldiers went back to Cork The very next day
they all put on civilian clothes and left the barracks
Q They all resigned?
A
Yes, they left the very next day.
Q Senator Walsh Were you in the barracks?
A No, but my friend who was there told me about this. That Colonel Smyth went
to Cork and was shot five days afterwards.
Q. Tins Smyth was an officer in the British army?
A. Yes, sir, he was a colonel
Q Chairman Bowe Was he in the old arm y, or was he promoted during the
war9
A He was promoted during the war
The actual date of the speech was June 19, 1920 See index, and Report 01
COMMISSI0N APPENDIX E.
387
BLACK-AND-TANS PAID HIGHER THAN REGULAR POLICE
Q. I would like to ask you what pay the constables received.
A. The wages sere advanced in March, 1919 When I resigned we were offered two
shillings a day more if we would remain. The pay then was twenty pounds a month—
in American money, at present rates of exchange, about eighty dollars.
Q. And keep?
A. No, no keep. You supply that.
Q. What was the pay of the Black-and-Tans?
A The Black-and-Tans were getting one and seven a day, I think.
Q One pound seven shillings a day?
A. Yes, that is twenty-seven shillings a day
Q Commissioner Wood Why do you say you think that?
A. The pay was not made known to the RIC in the barracks
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Q. Chairman Howe: So that the Black-and-Tans are getting about twice what you
got?
A Well, they were getting seven shillings more a day than we would get after the
raise.
DESTRUCTION OF CREAMERIES BY MILITARY
Q. Mr. D. F. Malone Mr Crowley, what can you tell us about the destruction of creameries?
A. Well, I remember passing by Kilcommon and Waycross, in Tipperary, the day
after the creamery there had been destroyed. There were thirty-six soldiers and
officers who had taken crowbars and knocked down the creamery, saying they were
looking for arms and ammunition. They didn't find any, but they wrecked the
creamery.
Q Mr. D F Malone. When was that?
A. It was in the end of March or the first of April.
SUPPRESSION OF FAIRS, MARKETS, AND RIGHT OF ASSEMBLY
Q Were fairs and markets prohibited at this time?
A. Fairs and markets in Tipperary were prohibited for about a year, from
February, 1919, to the end of March, 1920—for over a year, that is
The Kilcommon Central Creamery (cooperative) was destroyed April 10, 1920
Direct personal evidence was given before the Count) Court that the damage
was inflicted by military and police
Q What was carried on at these fairs ?
A. The chief purpose of these fairs was that the Irish fanners could sell then
cattle and butte' and their foodstuffs in these markets. The government issued a
proclamation that fairs and market, were not to be held in Counts Tipperary
Q. Senator Walsh. Are they held there now''
A. They are held their now, but they were not until March, 1920
Q.
Is that genet al throughout Ireland ?
A Well, in some counties The proclamation is on m Cork and Dublin and
Clare
Q Senator Walsh How long have the people been denied the right to assemble and
to meet for public meetings and public discussions?
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A. Especially since March 1919. no meetings have been allowed to be held.
Q
Is that still true'
A
Yes If a man wanted to cell his house or farm, he could not sell it without
a permit—an auction would not be allowed to take place And if he were a Sinn
Fein sympathizer, he couldn't get the permit. It a hunting match or a football
match took place without a permit a party of soldiers would cram• and drive
them off the field at the point of the bayonet
Q. Since what tune9
A Since Mardi 1919
NO SHOOTING OF POLICEMEN TO WARRANT SUPPRESSION IN COUNTY
CLARE
Q
Now, m the County of Clare were there any minders of police officers or any
interference with police officers previous to March, 1919?
A. In the Count y of Clare ?
Q Yes.
A
No, there was not. sir
Q.
Commissioner Addams You say. Mr Crowley that there had been orders
to shoot on sight a Sinn Feiner or Republican But that was never done in
daylight?
A. Most of the cases were at night, ye.s.
Q
So that they did not carry out that order of shooting with machine guns on
sight*?
A. Well, they did The military carried out the order in differ. eat places of
setting fire to houses
389
Q
Yes, but shooting people on sight was not done
A
Not in Clogheen. but it was done in other pall- of Ireland Conum—ionei
Addams. We have' 11('‘I'l had any evidence of hear'-ay of that being done
Mr. Malone. We have not piodnied any testimony about that, but we can
produce te-binony of man' in-tan«, of that kind
WHY SOME IRISH POLICE HAVE NOT RESIGNED
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Q
Senator Walsh Did you belong to any Sinn Fein organization while you
were a member of the Royal Irish Constabulary9
A. While I was in the RIC I was in favor and sympathy with the Irish movement
Q. But while you were in the RIC did you belong to any such organization?
A
No, I didn’t
But I belonged to one after I left.
Q. Senator Walsh Miss Addams' other remark prompts this question. Why did you
or any Irishmen remain in the Royal Irish Constabulary.'
A
Well, I guess they remained just for their living. That is all
Q
Does the fact that they are nearing the time for getting a pension, in the case
of the older men long in the seam – is that a factor'?
A
Yes, there are men of long service who are waiting now to get a pension
If they do not wait they will be losing from the English Government
about a hundred forty to a hundred fifty pounds a year
LEFT IRELAND TO PROTECT LIFE FROM BLACK-AND-TANS
Q M r D F M a l o n e M r C r o w l e y , h a v e y o u a f a m i l y?
A
No, sir.
Q W h y d i d you l eave Irel an d'?
A
I was afraid of the Black and Tans, that they would follow me.
Q. You left on account of your health, then ?
A
Yes, sir.
M r. I) F M alon e That i s all
The witness was thereupon excused I
..
r
390
r
Chairman Howe: Have you other witnesses from the Royal Irish Constabulary?
Mr. Malone: Yes, sir; three others.
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390
TESTIMONY OF JOHN TANGNEY
Chairman Howe: Proceed, Mr. Malone.
Q. Mr. Malone. What is your full name, Mr. Tangney?
A. John Tangney.
Q And where were you born9
A. I was born in Castleisland, County Kerry.
Q. How old are you?
A. I am about twenty-five.
Q. What education have you had9
A
I was educated in the nat►onal schools and at the Chr►stian Brothers.
Q. Where are you l►ving now?
A. New York.
Q How long have you been out of Ireland?
A. Since August
FIVE YEARS' SERVICE IN CONSTABULARY
Q. When did you join the Royal Irish Constabulary?
A I was appointed in October, 1915.
Q How long did you remain in the service?
A
From that date until most of July last.
Q. Commissioner Addams I did not get that date.
A. From the first of October, 1915, to July, 1920
Q. Mr. Malone. During that time, where were you stationed? A I was in the
southern part of Tipperary I was temporarily stationed at Clonmel, but my permanent
station was at Ballylooby.
Q. Chairman Howe. Is Ballylooby a Tipperary name?
A. Yes, it is in Tipperary, the southern part of Tipperary.
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Q. Mr. Malone: So that your entire service with the Royal Irish Constabulary was in
one part of one particular county?
A. Well, I was in various places for a time, for two or three months. I was in Limerick City
and Cork City for a time.
Q. That is just what I wanted to know. Where did you serve in different places?
A. I was in Midstone, County Cork, for a short tune, and in Cork City for a short while,
and in Limerick City; and on two or three occasions I was sent to the north of Ireland
for duty; but that lasted only for about a week at a time. After the Ballylooby station
was quit, I was at Clogheen.
39 1
Q Did you hear Mr. Crowley's testimony just now?
A
Yes, sir, I heard it.
Q. Where were you trained?
A. In Phoenix Park Depot, Dublin.
Q. Chairman Howe Is that the general training place?
A. Yes, it was at that time
Q. Mr. Malone• How long were you there?
A. I was six months at that training school. That was the plan If you did not qualify for
police duties and the other things you were supposed to qualify in at the end of six
months—in police duties and physical drill, gymnastics—you would be disqualified
You might halve to spend a short term longer, or they could disqualify and suspend
you and dismiss you at that time. I qualified with several hundred others at the end of
the six months, and I was sent down to Clonmel, in County Tipperary, at that time.
CONSTABULARY CHANGED TO AN AGGRESSIVE ARMED FORCE
Q. What were your instructions regarding the use of firearms?
A. Except there was a personal attack made upon you—that is, in self-defense—you
were never under any considerations to use fi rearms
Q And what was the first time thereafter—after you had passed your training and were an
accepted member of the RIC —what was the first time or stage at which these orders were
changed'?
A There was no definite order for a change to be made. They were changed gradually.
Like the members of the force, they were changed gradually in the same way Of
course, the police code that you had to learn in the training school said that you were
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never under any circumstances to use your firearms except in case of personal attack in
self-defense
Q. What use did the R.I.C. have for firearms in other cases than personal attack and selfdefense?
A. For show purposes mainly, until the new orders came
Q. Were orders to use these arms for purposes of aggression ever issued?
A
Yes, latterly. They were issued latterly.
Q When were the first orders of that kind issued?
A. The first orders of that kind that came to us from Dublin Castle was in October of
last year, October, 1919.
Q What were those orders?
A
First, this circular came down from the Castle that political
392
prisoners—a batch of political prisoners had escaped from Lincoln jail Their names
and descriptions were given in this official document, as it is termed, The Hue and
Cry. Their descriptions and ages were given The first order was that they were to be
arrested if they came within view—within our notice anywhere That was the
wording of the first article They were to be treated in the first article lust the same
as a criminal. Following that article there was the receipt of an order they called a
confidential article by the sergeant of the station on November fourth, stating that if
these political prisoners were seen and in case they came within the police notice and
they offered the slightest resistance, they were to be shot dead
Q. Chairman Home. These mere political plisoners9
A.
Yes. They named one in particular I did not know what position he held.
Ills name was Mr. Stack
Q His name was specifically mentioned?
A. Yes. Since I left the force, I found that he was an Irish M. P. (Member of
Parliament) in the Sinn Fein movement Of course I did not know from The Hoe
and Cry what position he held
Q Senator Walsh Nom, let me see Stack was one of the men elected in the elections
of 1918 to the British Parliament'
A
Yes, that is right, sir
Q. And instead of going to the British Parliament, he went to the Irish Parliament'
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A. Yes, sin
Q. And he was in prison and escaped?
A. Yes, he was an escaped prisoner
POPULATION NEVER BETRAYS POLITICAL REFUGEES
Q. Chairman Home Why is it that so many men known to be on the run in
Ireland—m ith apparently thousands of men on the run —why are they not easily
apprehended'?
A. Well, I could not answer that question as regards political prisoners.
Q. Senator Walsh: Is not the reason that the British soldiers do not know them by
name, and they would be shooting the first man they met, because they are all on
the run?
A
Yes, sn, that is so
Q
Mr Malone Is it not true that the population is largely on the run with them?
393
A. Yes, certainly.
Q. Chairman Hope. Then it would be right to say that the population of Ireland
protects these men on the run?
A. Oh, yes, absolutely Since the inception of the Sinn Fein movement—as the Irish
Government officially puts it, since 1918—never have I heard anyone, even
unconnected with the Sinn Fein movement, uttering a word about them in the Sinn
Fein movement who are wanted.
Q. Then the people do not give lamination about them, or give them up?
A. No, no. There was thousands of pounds offered for information for their arrest,
but it was all fruitless None were ever given up, or information forwarded
Q. It was fruitless'?
A. It was fruitless There was one case in the King's Bench court in Dublin City
where a man gave Information about the killing of a policeman; and the judge
from the bench called the informer a liar in the same breath.
Q. That is the only case you ever heard of?
A. It is the only case I ever heard of In our own barracks I had to post up
notices offering a regard of five to six hundred pounds for anyone who would go
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into the bat racks and give secret information about the location of certain
prisoners But that was fruitless
Q. Chairman Howe is it 1101 Rue that there are people still in Ireland who will
come forpard and give information leading to the arrest of these men who ate
wanted?
A
Well, that is the information I have to offer. Even with these large sums,
the people pill not give the information.
Q And that explains the comparative who are on the run—why they, can go
safety?
A Yes, sir
from house
immunity of in apprehending
th ese menthese men
Q. How about the R I C ? Do they help the Brutish Government
? to
house with
A. Certainly, they did. They did
Q. Are their sympathies with their jobs or with Ireland?
A. They haven't very much of
their old jobs left to them The only thing
that you had to do as a
policeman since 1913 was to lead the
military around and point out the men they wanted to get, or to follow up the Sinn
Fein prisoners
Q
But the constables did perk in their duties?
A
That F. the only duty left for them to do. I said since 1918
391because that was when the orders changing the police code were given to me
Q
But the R I C. still do their work?
A
Yes, that is all they can do.
Q Senator Walsh. The reason that these men avoid arrest is that they can go from one
village to another and no one will betray them?
A. There is not one 'angle case where the Irish people have betrayed men on the run
Q Chairman Howe
May I ask Miss MacSwiney if that is her experience too?
A. Miss MacSwiney Oh, yes, certainly; the Irish people will not inform
Q No in formers? A No informers.
Q. Mr. Malone. Do you remember the orders issued by General Deasey?
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A Yes. sir
Q. For instance, when did the military first come to police this section in Tipperary
when you were a member of the force? When did they begin to come?
A. Not actively until the beginning of this year
Q. When did they come in large numbers, before or after the murder of the Lord May or of
Cork?
A. It might coincide that they came exactly then, but they came some time before
and about the same date. Of course they were spread throughout the whole southern
part of Ireland at that time
Q Who was General Deasey?
A He was a divisional commissioner appointed for the southern province of Munster
Ile had control of the military and police.
Q. He was a British general?
A Yes, he was a brigadier general. He held one of the highest ranks in the army,
that of a brigadier general.
Q When did he come to Ireland?
A. In March of last year he was appointed.
Q. In March, 1919?
A. Yes, March, 1919. His business was making occasional tours of the barracks and
the instruction and inspection of the men, particularly those of this new force known
as the Black-and-Tans. He was on a special conference with them.
BLACK-AND-TANS TRAINED AS MILITARY, IGNORANT AS POLICE
Q Mr Malone: Before we get to the orders, when did this new force, the Black-andTans, come to Ireland?
A. The first that I saw was in March, and the first that came to the barracks where I was
stationed was in April.
395
Q. C h ai rm an Howe l9 20
A 1920, yes Of course I saw them going through the county but the first that
came to our barracks was in April
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Q How did they differ from the polite? Were they trained'?
A Yes, as regards military work, they were; but as regards police duties, they had
nothing like that. They trained them in a special training school in County Kildare,
while our training was in Phoenix Park in Dublin. It took us six months, and most
of them got through their training in six days.
Q
Were they efficient in their duties?
A They absolutely knew nothing about police duties. On one occasion there was a
county inspector whose duty it was to visit the barracks He was trying to instruct
these fellows, and we were all in the barracks, for we had to go to school to him.
And he asked this fellow what was his power of arrest, and he said he didn't know.
He tried to make it simpler to him. He said, "If you see a man on the street, and
you ask him to give you his name and address, and he refuses, what would you
do?" And this Black-and-Tan said, "If I met a man on the street and asked him his
name and address, and he refused, I would lift him right under the jaw, and the
next thing I would use my bayonet. That is what I would do to the man."
ARMED MILITARY INVADE RELIGIOUS SERVICES
Q. Now tell us about General Deasey What were his orders? A. The original
orders were issued in May.
Q 1920?
A. 1920.
Q Just tell us what these orders were.
A. These orders were that all policemen should go to mass—it mentioned Roman
Catholics particularly—that they were to go to mass in formation. The two in
front were to take revokers and the last two were to take rifles. The revokers were
to be worn with lanyards. The two with rifles were to keep their rifles at the
ready with bullets in the breech until mass was over And when mass was over
they were to march through the crowds the same way And if there was any
hostility shown, they were to shoot. That was the general tenor of the orders. It
might not be the exact words
Q. Senator Walsh Do I understand that these military officers were up in front of
the church standing with drawn rifles?
A. Yes, sir, ready to fire.
Q. Was it for self-protection during the service, or was it to preserve order in the
church during divine services?
396
A. It did not state that it bas for self-preservation.
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Q. What did it state it was for?
A. Anybody who read the order could see that it was to try and goad the people on
And more than that, it related particularly to the R. C's—that is, the Roman Catholics.
Q Was that for every religious service?
A. Just for the Roman Catholic services.
Q. I know, but was this order for these men to go to every service that bay, or vcas it
for them to go only when they went themselves to a service'?
A. I do not understand you, sir.
Q We are trying to find out if this order was framed so that when Catholic members
of the Royal Irish Constabulary went to divine services they should go in a certain
way as a protection to themselves, or whether it was an order for them to go to divine
services whenever they here held, so that the people should see them and know that
they were there
A. That was the order, and anybody reading it would think that that would be what
they meant by attending services with drawn rifles It was to terrify people, it
seemed to one
Q
But if there were two services in the same day, were they to go to both
services?
A Four of them mere to go to one service and four to the other. They mere. if
possible. to attend every service.
Senator Walsh. That is that I was trying to get at
Q. Mr. D F. Malone Did they attend Protestant services also?
A. Oh, no, sir
Q. Did they stand in front of the church with drawn guns for self-protection9
A Oh, no, sir. They would have been safer behind If anybody had wanted to
shoot them, they only made targets out of themselves by standing in the front of
the church
Q. Chairman Howe: Whose orders mere these')
A. General Deasey's order.
ORDERED TO BAYONET SINN FEIN SYMPATHIZERS
Q. Mr. D. F. Malone: Was there another order?
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A
Yes, that was in the barracks There here six Black and Tans present when
General Deasey conic to the barracks, and he was questioning them about that
they knew about Sinn Feiners and the movement that was going on in the
southern part of the
397
countr y And he said that in case they were able to identify a person with Sinn
Fein sympathies passing the barracks or going near the barracks, to bayonet him
and not to waste good powder
on him, but to lust bayonet him
Q. Senator Walsh. Was that before the raids here made on the barracks?
A. That has in May or June of this year
Q But there were many raids made on barracks
A. They were not raided theme then
Q. In that localit y'
A. No, there were no raids in that locality. It has uncalled lot in that locality
Q Commissioner Wood There were no raids on the barracks in which you were stationed'
A. No, there were none whatever it has a most peaceful district
Q Mr. D. L Malone Now tell us about the feis incident.
Q. Commissioner Addams I would like to ask you whether, at the time when this
order was given about the squads of police going to church under arms, there had
been any disturbances in any of the parish churches'
A No, there had never been There had never been in any ()I the churches with
which I am acquainted
Q. There had been no disturbances?
A None Whatever
Q Senator Walsh It has to terrify the people'
A Yes, anybody also read the order would see that It was to terrify the people.
Redman and Foley mere the first Black-and-Tans that came to the Ballyporeen
barracks, and they had special instructions given to them in the office apart from the
rest of us None of those fellows used to go to any service, although they were
supposed to be Protestants In fact, on one occasion the sergeant told them that it has
in the code—in the police regulations—that they should attend whatever service they
belonged to, and one of them said that If he mentioned service again he would send
him to a place where he could not go to any service When the inspector came, he used
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to take them upstairs to the sergeant's office, apart from us, and have a special
conference with them. After this order was issued by General Deasey. 1 noticed from
my own observation that during service. While the four men were at service in the
Catholic church none of them left the barracks or stirred from the inside of it
That was
the first Sunday that the order came into effect and the Roman Catholics had to go to
service or else resign. Them
398
the inspector had the conference with them, and on the next Sunday one of them
would go by the Catholic church occasionally to see if there was any trouble. And
then they had these bombs—a couple of hundred bombs in the barracks
Q So that they held these men at the barracks in reserve?
A
Yes, they held these six men in reserve in the barracks during the service. My
idea was that if anything turned up at service, they could pounce upon them with the
bombs and rifles loaded.
Q. Tell me this this order that was issued about attending mass was a secret
order? Was it not the order that the sergeant showed you ?
A Yes, yes; this was the one that the sergeant showed me It was a confidential
order, always kept locked up. But the sergeant, who was a Catholic, showed it to
me.
Q. Senator Walsh Were there any orders about interfering with the preacher?
A No, none at all.
ORDERED TO SUPPRESS POPULAR FESTIVAL BY FORCE
Q Mr Malone Mr Tangney, will you go on and tell about this feic incident9
A That happened in June, 1918. I was stationed at Ballylooby at the time On
Saturday night an order came that two men would proceed fully armed and
equipped to Tipperary town. We pro-(ceded there, and when we collected there,
there were about fifty police We were put in the military barracks and billeted
there for the night. The morning after, we proceeded to the regular police
barracks in the town We were marched We got no definite orders of what our
duties would be after we left the barracks until Sunday morning Then we were
lined up in the barrack square, and there was an inspector there named Lowndes
He was what was known as a special county inspector, sent to Tipperary County
to investigate what they call crimes.
Q. A plain-clothes man?
A
Yes, in civilian clothes This morning he addressed us in the hack yard of the
barrack square, and said that we had come for duty We thought it was a declaration
of itiar of some kind. He said there was going to be a feis—that is, a country
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gathering where there is Irish dancing and Irish music and the tike—there was
going to be a feis in Lisvarrinane, some three miles from there. He said, "The
military authorities have forbidden this feis to take place, and it is not going to be
held; but from information that we have
399
received, the people are going to hold it anyway. But we are going to put it down.
And any man who is not willing to do his duty this day had better drop out of the
ranks." No man said anything, so we lined up in military ranks and proceeded out
on the streets and there were fire military lorries out there, and we got into the
lorries. There were two armored cars—not tanks, but armored cars, with machine
guns, that went along too.
We proceeded to Lisvarrinane, this village where the feis was to be held; and the
people coming along from mass, at the sight of these lorries and the military and the
police and all the other war material, fled in terror like bees. Horses went away
from their owners' hands and jumped into side ditches, taking carts, passengers, and
all. When finally we arrived in the village there were certain police tolled off to
assist the military. Their orders were if they saw anybody going toward die village,
they were to turn them back, and fire on them if it was necessary to turn them back.
Q. Mr Tangney, I think it will hasten matters if you will just tell what you saw
happen after you got there—what you had to do
DRUNKEN OFFICERS IN COMMAND
A That was one thing The military were divided up. Well, then, this County
Inspector Lowndes had the orders, and lie adjourned to an adjoining saloon and
had a drink, and two young military officers, who were in charge of the military
patty; adjourned to the place with him and got stupidly drunk.
Q. So that the three officers in charge of this patty were drunk?
A. Yes, sir; all three were drunk. There were sonic Irish terriers outside the saloon
door, and the officers took these dogs and threw them at each other, and tried to
get them to fight. "Yes," they said, "we will have to put the dogs to fight, for the
lush dogs will not come out and fight us"
Q. What's that? Will you repeat that whole statement?
A They said, "We will have to put the dogs to fight, for the lush dogs will not
come out and fight us" Well, we went home, and the military were flashing
revolvers and yelling all the way back.
Q Senator Walsh: What is that, flashing?
A
Firing, firing their revolvers. I myself had to come to a soldier who was
stupidly drunk and take a revolver out of his hand He was stupidly drunk
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Q. Mr. Malone: Was that all there was to that particular incident ?
A
Yes, that is all.
'1 0 0
Q Senator Walsh Now wait a moment, Mr Malone. What had taken place in
that village previous to that night which could be in any way advanced as a
reason or excuse for this military expedition ?
Q. M r M alon e What was t he reason gi ven fo r t hi s l ai d.'
A. Nothing. except that this feis, as advertised to be held
Q Was it held?
A
Oh, no, it was not
Q
Senator Walsh And this military expedition broke it up')
A. Oh. yes; they could halve broken it up if it had been held lint the people did
not bold it after the military said they couldn't.
Q.
Chairman Home Do you know of any other feis or celebrations broken up'?
A
Yes, they were broken up. Previous to that it was the common practice all
over the country to hold them, and they have been broken up
Q. This was in 1912
A Y es , i n 1 9 18
Q Was it more m less a general custom to break them up ?
A
Yes, in 1918 it "as quite general
Q. Are the y being held now'
A. Well, I don't know whether they are being held this summer oi not.
DRUNKEN BLACK-AND-TANS FIGHT IN BARRACKS
Q Mr. Malone Mr Witness, did you ever see any lights between the Black-andTans?
A
Yes, sir, I did on several occasions. In the barrack where I was stationed dime
"ere six of them On two occasions the whole six of them turned out of the barracks
and went up town and—of course they always had plenty of money—and they came
back stupidly drunk. They were the lowest type of humanity The first order they
gate when they got hack was to "clear the room " That was the day room They told
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the sergeant to get out, and he did get out I was supposed to be in charge of the
barracks that time, and I could not go out I and another - Mr Galvin.
Q Who is that?
A.
Mr Galvin, who is there. After that they got the shotguns that were in the
racks and loaded them They did not actually fire any shots because I took one ofthe shotguns away from them and Galvin took the other And they then got the
butts of rifles—they did not have time to load them And when they got through I
had
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101
to mop up the blood from the floor of the room. They were fighting one another like idiot.
Q. Chairman Howe Take what.'
A. Like idiots They were fighting like wild men, they were that drunk
Q Mr. D. F Malone: Do you know of any fights between Black-and-Tans, or
between the Black-and-Tans and the Royal Irish Constabulary, which halve
resulted in the death., either of Black-and-Tans or of R.I.C. ?
A. Well, I was not a witness to any of them, but I do know of one that was actually
true—an occurrence in the city of Dublin, where one of them, on the pretext of
leaning his rifle, shot the sergeant in charge of the station.
Q. The point I wish to make is that there were fights between the RIC and the
Black and Tans, and fights between the Black and-Tans themselves
A Oh, certainly The time when the Black-and-Tans came to the barracks, the R I
C hardly spoke to them Of course they wanted to get information from some of
the men They wanted them to point out people and houses and the like
REASONS FOR RESIGNING FROM CONSTABULARY
Q. Will you state when you resigned, and your reasons lot re'signing9
A
I resigned the first of July
Q. When ?
A
1920, the present year. I sent in my resignation on that date and I was to be
discharged on the first of August I was discharged a few days before, on the twentyfourth of July
Q. Why did you resign ?
A. I resigned for many reasons. The main reason was that these was nothing left for
me to do except to leak the military to butcher
Q When you resigned, how long had you been in the service?
A About five years, from October, 1915, to July, 1920
Q When you resigned. that meant that you had to sawfice you' pension7
A
Yes, I had to sacrifice that
Q. Is there a pension?
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A
Ye.. certainly, you get three fourths of the annual pay as a pension
Mr D F M alone That is all
Q Senator Walsh Was theme a rule or an order in Ireland in
10 2
June, 1918, against people assembling together for fairs or public gatherings ?
A In 1 9 1 8 ?
Q. Yes.
A. In certain parts there was.
Q. Was there in this place where you and the military authorities went out to break
up the meeting?
A. Oh, no, there was no order at that time.
Q. So that there was no apparent violation of law by the people advertising that they
were to have this meeting?
A None whatever.
BLACK-AND-TANS DISLIKED BY CONSTABULARY
Q Chairman Howe. The R I. C. here almost wholly Inshmen9
A. Yes, they were, almost all of them
Q Wholly recruited from Ireland ?
A. Yes.
Q. The Black-and-Tans were wholly recruited from England?
A. Yes, every one of them
Q Did the Royal Irish Constabulary and the Black-and-Tans fraternize together'?
Did they associate together in a friendly sort of way?
A Oh, no, they here roughnecks
Q That was generally true—the R I C had nothing to do with the Black-and-Tans?
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A. Oh, I would not say that they had nothing to do with them, but that they had no
friendship for them, and they had nothing more to do with them than necessary.
Mr. D. F. Malone That is all
The witness was thereupon excused
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TUAM - A RESIGNED CONSTABLE SCOURGED AND DRIVEN FROM TOWN
The following documents were submitted in evidence by Miss Ellen Wilkinson, of
Manchester, England See testimony, p 604
The original signed statements, duly authenticated, of which the following are
true and correct copies, are in the possession of the Commission
Statement of H Ruddy
Bishop St, Tuam 25/9/20
I have to state that on the morning of 24/9/20, at about 2 15 A M, I heard fierce
knocking at my door,
A man outside said, "This is Ruddy's", "Open", "We want
to get in " My Mrs opened the door and five men came into my house, 4 of them
entered my bedroom, one of them carried an electric flash lamp similar to those
supplied to the police, the others had revolvers in their hands The man who carried the
torch said, "Are you Mr Ruddy?" I said, 'Yes " "Dress quick," he replied, "and tome
along with us " They then put me into a motor car which was waiting close to my
house and drove to Parkmore Teri ace, where they halted Four of them got off the car
and went to a house in the terrace They ieturncd shortly with Mr Thos Owens, head
porter with Gt South-tin & Western Railway They put Owens into the car and drove as
far as the Golf Links at Cloonascragh (2 miles from Tuam) on the Athenry Road, w
here they halted, got off the car, and asked me to come along, which I did When we
were about 40 yds from the car, one of them said, ' You arc the turn-coat You were in
the police and resigned and turned Sinn Fein You were seen leaving Galway the races
day on a motor tar with a Sinn Fein flag on the car You are a Sinn Feiner now " One
of them struck me on the face with his clenched fist and knocked me down They then
compelled me to take my trousers off, and put me in a stooping position with my
hands resting on my knees, then they cruelly scourged me with a hard, sharp
instrument like a walking cane split through the center. The scourging lasted about 10
minutes, when one of them said "That will do There is your road home,"—pointing
towards Tuam "Leave the town before a week or your house will be burned."
There are several marks on my body which bled a good deal yesterday They were all
tall, strong men with English accents, and wore trench coats and caps, save the motor
driver, who wore a policeman's uniform waterproof coat; this man spoke like an
Irishman The car was driven in the direction of Athenry, and I returned to my home,
where I arrived about
4 A M.
Signed Hugh Ruddy
The above statement was given to me by Mr Ruddy on 25/9/1920
Signed REV C HANNAN,
ADMINISTRATOR, Tuam
Second Statement of H Ruddy
Tuam, 4/10/20
I wish to state that at about 3 .30 A M on this date I was awakened by loud knocking
at my door. I asked, "Who is there?" and a man outside said, "Come on." I opened the
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door and about 10 or 12 men came into my house, some were dressed in soldiers'
uniform and some wore trench coats One of the men covered me with a revolver and
said, "Dress quick and come along" When I was dressed I asked, "What is all this
about?" and one man said, "We gave you 7 days to leave the town, and what steps
have you taken to leave ?" I said, "I have no place to go to, and therefore I must
remain " He then said, "You are getting £3 a week Sinn Fein money You arc employed
by the Town Commissioners, who are a Sinn Fern body " I said, "I must live, I am
alive and cannot die" He then said, "When you had a good job you did not remain in
it, seemingly you prefer Sinn Fein money to the King's money, and by your remaining
in this town you are insulting your late comrades The fact that you are walking around
the town is an insult to your comrades, and you are a disgrace to them" He then
presented a revolver and said, "Come along" My Mrs then commenced screaming, and
she said, "I will
1062
go also," when one of the raiders said to me, "We will give you 4 days more to
leave the town, and if you are not gone then we will make a bonfire over you and
we will give you no chance of escaping"
Signed Hugh RUDDY, EX-Constable, R 1 C
This statement was handed to me today by Mr Ruddy
Signed REV C HANNAN, Administrator, Tuam, 4/10/20
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Patrick Hugh Lynch