8000 In Brazilian Portuguese zero is singular by antonioribeiro · Pull Request #10134 · symfony/symfony · GitHub
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In Brazilian Portuguese zero is singular #10134

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antonioribeiro
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@fabpot
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fabpot commented Jan 26, 2014

any other brazilian portuguese in the community to check that? @guilhermeblanco

@dm
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dm commented Jan 26, 2014

@fabpot I can confirm this.

And in fact it differs from PT-PT (Portugal) where zero is considered plural, while in PT-BR (Brazil) it's singular.

There might be differences in usage or opinion but these are the linguistic rules.

@nettles-jarrod
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@fabpot I'm in Recife, Brazil right now and I just ran this by several native speakers in the hotel lobby. Brazilian Portuguese = singular. European Portugeuse = plural.

@InFog
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InFog commented Jan 26, 2014

Yes, this is it. Here in Brazil zero is singular.

@pborreli
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I confirm

zero grau

@guilhermeblanco
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No... It's "0 graus". I'll point out the right grammar rule for that.

@antonioribeiro
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will post below.

@InFog
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InFog commented Jan 26, 2014

@guilhermeblanco Now I'm confused...

Here it says is singular: http://g1.globo.com/platb/portugues/2010/01/

And here it says (according to the ABL - Academia Brasileira de Letras) that it depends on context: http://lgcooper.wordpress.com/2008/10/08/zero-e-plural-ou-singular/

@pborreli
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http://duvidas.dicio.com.br/zero-grau-ou-zero-graus/

@antonioribeiro
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Looks like Guilherme Blanco is partially right:

Academia Brasileira de Letras Responde:

Pergunta : Prezada Comissão, Tenho uma dúvida que não encontrei resposta ainda, 0(zero) é plural ou singular? por exemplo, devo escrever 0 itens ou 0 item? Obrigado

Resposta : O zero é numeral cardinal adjetivo de 2g. e 2n. Se o item não-existente for um só, use zero item; se forem vários, use zero itens.

But, I really would like to see the updated grammar rule for this.

Clearly it depends on the context.

You can't really create a rule for that unless your application understands the context, so it's up to the coder to decide what to use in any particular case.

But usually, here, zero is singular, so in my opinion this is the rule that should be used.

@dm
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dm commented Jan 26, 2014

@guilhermeblanco @InFog @antonioribeiro I've only found resources pointing to the singular use in Brazil.

And in the third paragraph here (in Portuguese), it mentions that the "plural use [of zero] in Brazil to be rarer" (noting it exists), but the linguistics manuals, dictionary, etc all ponting to "zero being singular".

Maybe some more up-to-date official resources might be useful (i.e.: not going through QA sites), namely with the new Orthographic Agreement between Portugal and Brazil I'm not sure what changes where defined for Brazillian Portuguese.

@pborreli
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http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/localization-guide/en/latest/l10n/pluralforms.html

nplurals=2; plural=(n > 1);

@guilhermeblanco
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I think I'll contact ABL for the right answer. The post was written in 2008, and we got 5 changes since then.
Will publish the result here once I got it. =)

@dm
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dm commented Jan 26, 2014

I think @pborreli mentioned a great resource to clarify a standard implementation.

I wasn't aware of translatehouse.org (thanks, bookmarked!)

@guilhermeblanco
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FYI, I submitted an email to ABL (Academia Brasileira de Letras) questioning this. Let's wait for a response.
For everyone's interest, here is the content of email I've sent:

Olá,

Primeiramente devo congratulá-los pelo exímio canal de atendimento ao internauta. A abertura de um canal para questionamentos sobre a nossa lingua é simplesmente extraodinário.

Estou enviando este questionamento representando um projeto de código livre usado em todo o mundo chamado Symfony [1].
Recentemente, foi solicitado a contribuição de entusiastas ao redor do mundo para contribuir com novas línguas, bem como reavaliar as línguas já criadas, tendo em vista que ela sofre mudanças diárias.
Ao averiguar a língua portuguesa, percebi que a regra geral de empredo singular/plural para cardinais me pareceu estranha, e propús a correção do trecho de código referente à esta regra, tornando-a compatível com a língua portuguesa de Portugal também.
O fato é que menos de 1 dia após a contribuição, outras pessoas abriram novas solicitações para reverter a alteração [2] e a dúvida foi instaurada.

Como regra geral, e especificamente para o valor 0, deve-se usar o singular ou plural? Exemplos:

"Você possui 0 mensagem" versus "Você possui 0 mensagens"
"Você deve selecionar, no mínimo, 0 opção." versus "Você deve selecionar, no mínimo, 0 opções."

Todas as possíveis traduções necessárias se encontram disponíveis para averiguação [3].

[1] http://symfony.com
[2] https://github.com/symfony/symfony/pull/10134
[3] https://github.com/guilhermeblanco/symfony/blob/master/src/Symfony/Component/Validator/Resources/translations/validators.pt_BR.xlf

Desde já agradeço imensamente esta oportunidade,

Guilherme Blanco

Will post here back the response once I get it... should take a couple of days.

@guilhermeblanco
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Got an answer from ABL.

Prezado consulente, 

a concordância com o número zero é sempre feita no singular. 
Exemplo: "Você tem zero real. / Você possui zero mensagem.

Translating to non-portuguese speakers, the answer clarifies that 0 must be always in the singular form in brazilian portuguese.

@fabpot feel free to revert my patch from PluralizationRules ( #10091 ) as it's wrong based on this answer.

@fabpot
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fabpot commented Jan 28, 2014

#10091 has been reverted now.

@fabpot fabpot closed this Jan 28, 2014
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7 participants
@antonioribeiro @fabpot @dm @nettles-jarrod @InFog @pborreli @guilhermeblanco
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