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Article about Tanoli

Situish, I am sorry to put a note on record that you have distorted the whole article on Tanoli and removed the most reliable facts which are not only supported by the tradition of Tanoli Tribe but also by contemporary and conventional historians. I would request Admin to interfere Fahad AKM (talk) 14:24, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

If you think that you have reliable sources then please raise them at the article talk page. - Sitush (talk) 17:26, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Agrawal

Whatever I have added is based on my observation. Not all true facts require citations. I too am agrawal residing in Nepal. Please add the lines back again. UmeshKhetan (talk) 09:25, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Almost all statements do require verification. There are people who would even argue that the sky isn't blue and water isn't wet, although those are examples of statements that would usually just be accepted without fear of dispute. What you are doing is original research ... and you can't. - Sitush (talk) 09:40, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

You've got mail!

Hello, Sitush. Please check your email; you've got mail!
Message added 09:45, 14 September 2015 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Tito Dutta (talk) 09:45, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Your argument to remove the edits is illogical & contradictory.

Your argument - "sources do not show self-identification" - for removing my edits in the List of Jats is illogical, contradictory & inconsistent. Few of the points against it are:

• Most of the persons named under the categories like 'Rulers' aren't self-declared Jats. But still their names aren't removed. If your argument is that they are dead then would that mean if one of the sportspersons dies then the authentic sources of mine - which were removed by you - will become eligible? That's totally illogical! The point remains that none of them did "self-identification". Still you accepted the sources in which the authors stated these people's castes on their behalf. But you didn't apply the same logic for other sections! Similar argument can be made regarding the categories like 'Spiritual people', 'Scientists', etc. in the List of Brahmins or persons named under 'Historical figures' in the List of Rajputs.

• In this day & age, unless specifically asked or the situation demands, no famous personality will come to media to just declare his caste because of the fear of being tagged as casteist or the stigma associated with his/her caste. Even M.S. Dhoni told his caste because he was specifically asked to do so.

• The sources/citation given by me were from highly authoritative & popular newspapers. If the involved sportsperson had any reservation regarding the contents, he/she would've asked/sued the newspapers for correction. But none of them ever did that. By rejecting the facts stated in them you are declaring them as incorrect. How would you prove that those newspapers are stating lies?

• Castes aren't a matter of a choice. You are born into it. So, whether you want to be associated with it or not, it won't get changed. Otherwise people would've chosen the castes at will. And there wouldn't have been Scheduled Castes or caste based reservations. And if you think that caste is defined by the person's occupation then practically none of the listed persons - at least of the modern times - can be associated with their respective caste. - Ramesh987 (talk) 15:42, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

If a person has never declared his caste in public, why should Wikipedia declare it? - Kautilya3 (talk) 16:27, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

If that's the case then at least be consistent and remove most of the names under the categories like 'Spiritual people', 'Historical figures', 'Rulers', etc. as practically none of them had publicly declared his/her caste in person. Please read my first point again to understand the crux of the matter. - Ramesh987 (talk) 08:17, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

WP:BLP does not apply to people who have been dead for years. However, if I had it my way we would only mention caste when it was obviously relevant to their life/reason for notability. - Sitush (talk) 09:37, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

This really isn't negotiable unless you can convince the community to change WP:BLP. See User:Sitush/Common#Castelists. And, yes, Kautliya3 is right. - Sitush (talk) 17:08, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

If that's the case then at least put a clear warning at the top of the relevant articles that 'unless the personality mentioned by you has declared his/her caste in person in the media, your edit will be removed'. Your this small step will save many people from wasting their time in futility. It will also save the time you spend in removing their edits. - Ramesh987 (talk) 08:17, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

We can't list every policy at the top of every article. - Sitush (talk) 09:37, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

That one line would've summed up the only legitimate way of making any edit in those kind of articles - at least in case of the alive personalities. But I got your point. And thanks for sparing your time for all the clarifications. Keep it up! - Ramesh987 (talk) 10:27, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Dheeran chinnamalai article

Please give Answer for this talk:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Dheeran_Chinnamalai#please_investigate_against_fact_of_dheeran_chinnamalai

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Dheeran_Chinnamalai#Dheeran_chinnamalai_is_a_false_hero — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gobugounder (talk • contribs) 10:45, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Fxpremji

hello sitush, you made several changes on mutharaiyar article.i gave perfect proof for 29 subcastes list.i wrote government order number date but you deleted several content such as notabale persons,government orders,government functions.

Our union give final warning to you.be careful.otherwise we made cyber crime complaint against your ip, id.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Fxpremji (talk • contribs) 05:33, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Please note the information at WP:NLT and that government caste lists are considered to be primary sources that exist in large part for political reasons rather than because they have any real certainty in fact. That is why there are so many changes made to them, so often. - Sitush (talk) 08:05, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

On sources

I think it might be best we talk about sources outside of the GamerGate talk page. You and I both know how it gets there. I'm curious as to what sources you do think are notable on the page. GamerPro64 00:09, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Reliable, you mean? I would use virtually none of them because they are mostly op-eds or quite obviously not independent. Which is one reason why the article should be stubbed. Look at the regulars at the talk page there: many of them do little else but edit Gamergate stuff and that is often a bad sign. - Sitush (talk) 08:07, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Yeah I meant reliable. Sorry about that. And I agree. There are too many people writing on that page that only edit the same subject matter. That's suspect. Unfortunately there might not be anything to do about it. GamerPro64 13:56, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Please Be More CIVIL

I don't appreciate being treated so or such. ForbiddenRocky (talk)

:Fuck off. - Sitush (talk) 08:03, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps you will be treated in a civil manner when you learn to be civil. It isn't all about "naughty" words. - Sitush (talk) 11:25, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

The mere use of invective isn't the source of your incivility. But crass language is indicative. ForbiddenRocky (talk) 16:02, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

What is indicative is your trolling, here and elsewhere. Add to that your almost entirely SPA nature and I rather think you are the one who is going to get into trouble first. You are NOTHERE, ForbiddenRocky, make no mistake about it. - Sitush (talk) 16:08, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Sockfarm

If you are interested, please have a look through the edits of this sockfarm (if not, ignore, or pass on to someone who might be interested). I'm sure I've missed many more socks, and I'm not 100% sure there is no older master. Materialscientist (talk) 13:08, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

@Materialscientist: well, Anzertvi has just appeared. They may have a point in reverting me but it is odd behaviour for a first edit, as is knowing the term "sock". - Sitush (talk) 16:05, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

I had started editing wiki about a year and a half ago and replaced wrong information in different articles with correct information. However due to edit-warring i got blocked and ultimately the wrong version won and i have see it happen many times here on wiki. Trust me it is not always the correct version that succeeds here on wiki. I have since then quit editing wiki. Also i have no relation to the User:Kmrhistory. I know the word "Sock" from my editing experience here on wiki though i have never personally socked. The reason that i reverted your edit is because the previous version was a million times better in every aspect. It was up-to-date, organized, the information was correct, etc whereas the current version is just horrible and has loads of factual inaccuracies. Thanks. Anzertvi (talk) 16:40, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Mystery Destroyer

Hi Sitush (and everyone else who's looking at the destroyer),

At first glance, this may be a Tribal Class destroyer and could therefore be HMS Amazon (1908). I haven't looked in my library yet as I'm not in that office today, but a quick look online shows this model for comparison (I'm aware it may not be the most reliable source, but just as a starting point it might be useful). The hull looks similar, as do the funnel and air intakes, but the bridge superstructure is harder to be sure of.

On the other hand, it could be a completely different class! I haven't had a very thorough look yet, but I've recently spent a lot of time looking at HMS Nubian (1909) and a few similar features caught my eye.

I'll have a look in a bit more detail tonight and tomorrow, but I'm going to the Arnhem commemorations after that so I won't be able to add much for a week I'm afraid (sorry, that's only just occurred to me after offering to look at the photo!). I look forward to everyone else's thoughts on this too though. Regards, Ranger Steve ^Talk 08:52, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Actually, I think it is HMS Nubian. Just found a sharper image here. Ranger Steve ^Talk 09:17, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Further to that, Sitush, this is the main Manchester Ship Canal images page on that website. The home page linked from the top contains various notes about ownership. I'm uncertain where the version you have came from, but certainly it appears the owner of this website wouldn't take kindly to the higher resolution version being used on Wikipedia. Interestingly, there is also a picture of HMS Amazon in this collection (MSC34). Ranger Steve ^Talk 09:32, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm fairly certain that the owner of that website can claim copyright all he wants, but since they were commercially published, he doesn't actually have a leg to stand on. Scanning something is not a creative act and does not give copyright to the scanner.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 18:29, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm well aware of copyright law in the UK, but as I said, I doubt he'd take kindly to it. Ranger Steve ^Talk 20:37, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Thanks for the information thus far. I'd deciphered the lifebuoy lettering as including the string AU-IA and either N or H at the end. Swap that first A for an N and it is a good fit. Someone else has also suggested the Tribal class and I am waiting for permission to reproduce their email here.

One of my relatives died at Arnhem: got caught by a mine blast and broke his back. I've still got a letter referring to it somewhere. One da, I'll find the cash to get over there to the grave, and to those of several other relatives who died in WWI in France. - Sitush (talk) 09:36, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. Having spent so long looking at pictures and plans of Nubian recently, I've got quite familiar with the Tribal class. At first I thought the first letter on the lifebuoy was an A, hence the assumption of Amazon. The sharper image makes it look as if it's a partially obscured N though, and the rest of the letters certainly fit. Ranger Steve ^Talk 09:46, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Yep, that's it. Great work there, thanks. I've started an expansion of the Nubian article. I'll probably get some of the terminology wrong! I'll have to see if I can find a copy of that postcard, which will itself be out of copyright and therefore ok to scan and upload independent of the website that you found. - Sitush (talk) 10:13, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

You may like this image. This one is copyrighted to Chatham, but if you just google HMS Nubian, you'll see other copies of it around that may not be restricted. I've done a fair bit of research on her recently, but I'm afraid it's all primary sources from The National Archives and not so useful for Wikipedia. There is some information on her 1916 damage here though (pages 342-344). Ranger Steve ^Talk 10:26, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Great, thanks. I am picking up stuff from the British Newspaper Archive. The article would probably benefit from an experienced eye when I am done. - Sitush (talk) 10:34, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Sturmvogel 66 had the following to say (I was waiting for permission to copy from their email):

I'm honestly surprised to see such a ship on the Canal given that there weren't any warship builders in Manchester or environs, AFAIK. The key identification features are the double "swoop" of the deck edge just to the right of the sailors and the two boiler ventilator cowls abaft the funnel. Ignore the structure (a covered searchlight platform?) behind and above the cowls, it's from another ship. While the cowls look like they're right behind one another, the rear one is actually offset to the left, which is very helpful and eliminates a lot of possibilities. I don't have good photos of all the pre-1912 destroyers as they were produced in a lot of variants, but I _think_ that this is HMS Viking, a Tribal-class destroyer built by Palmers around 1906. I'm awaiting a comprehensive history of British DDs, that will hopefully have better coverage on these early ships than my current books, so I'll take a look through it once it arrives.

I've been expanding the article now that the decent-quality photo absolutely nails things. I may in fact be over-expanding but it can always be trimmed back. - Sitush (talk) 16:32, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

I think Sturmvogel 66 is wrong in this instance. There may not have been warship builders in Manchester, but the Elswick Ordnance Company had a major plant in Openshaw, which among other things supplied heavy guns to the Navy, so a warship pootling up the Ship Canal to have its guns overhauled or replaced wouldn't have been particularly surprising. Source and map here. ‑ iridescent 18:41, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Good catch, I hadn't considered gun foundries.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 02:24, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

I just got a copy of March's magnum opus on British destroyers and it doesn't have any photos or drawings of Nubian, so I can neither confirm nor deny that she's the ship in the photo.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 03:26, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Help us improve wikimeets by filling in the UK Wikimeet survey!

Hello! I'm running a survey to identify the best way to notify Wikimedians about upcoming UK wikimeets (informal, in-person social meetings of Wikimedians), and to see if we can improve UK wikimeets to make them accessible and attractive to more editors and readers. All questions are optional, and it will take about 10 minutes to complete. Please fill it in at:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/JJMNVVD

Thanks! Mike Peel (talk) 17:02, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

List of notable people in chettiar community

Ample evidence is available for the list of people mentioned being notable as well as belonging to chettiar community. Wiki articles about said people are proof enough. If still in doubt, you can check that the given names of many people like AVM & RA itself has Chettiar in the end as surname (AV Meyyappan Chettiar and Raja Annamalai Chettiar) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.234.53.150 (talk) 14:45, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Please see User:Sitush/Common#Castelists., - Sitush (talk) 16:33, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Sir Parshurambhau College

Came across this page while wondering what 'P.C College' (and its variations) referred to. Then I saw the page was an unsourced mess so I did this. Pretty much reverted the text to your last version of 13 June 2014‎, while keeping the more detailed info-box. Just FYI, and hope your health gets better. 220 of ^Borg 08:33, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for doing that. Mine is a fleeting visit - I'm pretty doped on meds at the moment and the articles on my watchlist seem to be deteriorating fast. - Sitush (talk) 16:34, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Casts of shaheeds (Nishan-e-Haider holders) of Pakistan

Hi Sitush. Do you mind taking a look at Casts of shaheeds (Nishan-e-Haider holders) of Pakistan. Do we have any precedent of having such articles. -- SMS ^Talk 08:34, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I deleted it - the entire table is already included in Nishan-e-Haider. Good to see you're still around Sms! --regentspark (comment) 15:27, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, both. - Sitush (talk) 00:38, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Montage Issue

You had proposed 3 years ago (in fact many times according to past discussions) to delete Montages in its entirety from India related articles. The Majority of the people in that discussion had said no and there was general consensus that there should be montages to represent what a caste looks like etc. Although it is true in previous years that actors and 'good looking' people (according to your statements earlier) were put in the earlier montages, I have made this one for the purpose of showing people from diverse fields. With all due respect, I don't believe that you and other meatpuppets (for lack of a better term) have the authority to decide if Caste montages should be included or not. Also, per Wikipedia policy, you are supposed to discuss an issue before you revert any edition I make, and assume good faith in the process. The Montage is to show some prominent members of the Nair community, and the fact that in previous montages you considered them 'good looking' is more so a personal preference rather than a logical reason. I kindly ask for thousandth time to please let me and others collaborate and build an encyclopedia that presents information in the right way without having Civil POV editors harm the process. Rabt man (talk) 00:36, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Go away. I don't deal with confirmed sockpuppets. - Sitush (talk) 00:38, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

What is worse than a sockpuppet are people trying to undermine other communities they wish they were part of through public encyclopedias with support of hierarchies in the Wikipedia system. I have seen you turning a blind eye when there is clearly POV in the Ezhava and Syrian Christian articles. I understand that you do not wish to collaborate, but know that what you are doing is much worse than someone who used multiple accounts on Wikipedia and will come to the light eventually. Rabt man (talk) 00:45, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

I have no problem with collaboration. I have a problem dealing with serial liars, cheats and pov-pushers. - Sitush (talk) 00:48, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Sitush, I have told Rabt to keep away from your talkpage. For your part, don't get baited! Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 01:09, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

This is why I am trying not to edit much at the moment. I'm likely to call it what it is rather than at least make an attempt to wrap things in cotton wool as is the preferred WP way. - Sitush (talk) 11:07, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
	Thanks Sitush for all your hard work, which you have performed here at no small cost. It is greatly appreciated--not by all, but certainly by those who aim to keep the place clean from corruption, spam, misinformation, ethnic propaganda, political rhetoric. Drmies (talk) 17:00, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Hear! Hear! Sitush, I have admired your work for years and years even before I became a Wikipedian. You have been a solid rock defending the India pages. - Kautilya3 (talk) 17:59, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

My thanks to both of you. I think you probably realise that I am in one of my dark phases at the moment. It will should pass. But, wow, while I always thought Drmies was something of a Methusalah in WP terms, I didn't realise just how recently Kautilya3 has been contributing! I take my hat off to both of you, the (ahem, Drmies) old and the new - I've always been impressed, even when in disagreement. - Sitush (talk) 00:15, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Mandwani

This note's for you. Drmies (talk) 17:48, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Another Gyan book

Found this when I was looking at some large scale copy pastes at Marathi people. This has some content from Maratha Empire, but not sure which came first, the chicken or the egg. To research and add to your list. —SpacemanSpiff 18:15, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

If it isn't from WP then it will likely be nicked from somewhere else. I thought we had agreed that nothing from Gyan is reliable? I know that Moonriddengirl leans that way and I have (slowly) been removing them. - Sitush (talk) 18:18, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes, but my chicken and egg comment was to figure out if we have a copyright problem with this. —SpacemanSpiff 19:17, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Well, if our only source is the Gyan book then it doesn't really matter - it is either us copy/pasting or us adding unsourced statements. Either way, it would be removed. - Sitush (talk) 19:19, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Edit on page Bharwad

Hey! I realise this is the second time you reverted the edit on the page Bharwad. Under 'Etymology', what sense does it make to write the following, "known as the Mota Bhai (Motabhai) and the Nana Bhai (Nanabhai)"? How is Mota Bhai any different from Motabhai? The words in the bracket are unnecessary and this repetition totally unnecessary. Also, under "Divisions", the words are explained with their English meanings. By then, the words have already been used 3 times. It is more useful to explain the meaning of the word the first time itself, especially, since Etymology means that! I hope you undo your revision. Ronakshah1990 01:19, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Denzil Ibbetson

There has been a massive, but clearly GF, addition to Atwal - what sourcing there is based upon Punjab Castes By Sir Denzil Ibbetson. I seem to recall this is not considered a reliable source?
Hope your health issues are improving - Arjayay (talk) 08:55, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Constant reverting of Edits on Pran Sukh Yadav

I don't intend to fight with anyone or go on a war and also don't feel afraid of any sort of ban. Sorry, to hurt anyone's sentiments, just trying to expose truth by my limited knowledge. Again want to describe something about Pran Sukh Yadav

Pran Sukh yadav was a person who even after fighting for freedom of India remains nearly unknown. I have done extensive research on him and two research scholars at rohtak university are presently doing research on him in order to make his deeds known to the world. I cannot present the detailed accounts on him on wikipedia thus, only mentioned relevant information related to him. I shall be more than happy if learned people like you help me in collecting verifiable documents on him and in improving the article. He started his career in Sikh Khalsa army of Ranjit Singh and became a commandant (headed battalion) by his merit in fauj-ain. When Hari Singh Nalwa annexed Peshawar and was governor of Peshawar he recommended his name for Izaz-i-sardari to Lahore palace. The recommendation letter of Hari Singh Nalwa is still preserved in Archives of Lahore Museum Library. Details of his participation in Indian rebellion are present at Jalandhar museum at Jalandhar, Punjab. His native village Nihalpura is only 7km from battlefield of narnaul and old people still remember his instigation of aheers and gujjars against british. He went underground after 1857 in order to save himself from death sentence. Details of Col Gerrard shot by a man carrying minie rifle are still present in the archives of Merrut museum, Merrut. His minie rifle along with his sword was confiscated by Punjab police in 1947 from his haveli at Nihalpura due to involvement of his descendents in Hindu-Muslim riots during partition of India. The details of confiscated minie rifle and sword are present in Punjab police records. Kindly help me in improving the article and research.

If there is little known of the man then the article is likely to be deleted, as it was previously. Article subjects have to be notable and that means information about them should be available in several independent reliable sources. From my own past and recent research, the chap in question appears to have been little more than a local hero, of which there are tens of thousands of examples for the events of 1857 alone. Oral history has a tendency to embellish and to distort, and the "old people" you refer to do not in fact "remember" what he did - at best, they remember what they were told he did by people who are now long dead. - Sitush (talk) 05:22, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Caste identities

Hi Sitush, what would you say about this kind of an edit [1]? The source is not great, but I could also find HISTRS that say similar things. - Kautilya3 (talk) 03:54, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

That particular source is dreadful. It gives no indication of who wrote and published the book, meaning that we have no idea of its authority. In addition, it is quite possibly a hosted copyright violation. So on those grounds alone it would be better to find alternate sourcing.

More generally, I'm always wary of unnecessarily mentioning the caste of a person. If their caste was relevant to their notability etc, as sometimes happens, then it is useful information; otherwise, it is just a magnet for trouble and imparts nothing of benefit to the reader. - Sitush (talk) 05:18, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

I know, but I am wondering how long we can keep fighting this. If the information is out there, people will keep adding it. I suppose we can ask how the caste is relevant to notability? - Kautilya3 (talk) 07:04, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

I think the situation is similar to mentioning someone's religious belief when that belief had no particular bearing on what made them notable. There are plenty of biographical articles (not just Indians) that do mention religious beliefs because the person made some sort of deal of it but I suspect there are many, many more where it is not mentioned ... although that might also be because it is not known.

I am not sure what the answer may be here. We could try again at WT:INB to get local consensus for caste mentions but, really, it probably needs wider community consensus and should indeed address religion also. AndyTheGrump is pretty experienced with this sort of situation - let's see if the ping gets a response. - Sitush (talk) 10:28, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

I doubt it :( [2] No such user (talk) 09:40, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Bugger! We seem to be losing a lot of experienced contributors at the moment, mostly to frustration with the extent to which we apply AGF and promote socio-political agendas. - Sitush (talk) 07:43, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

School lists

I noticed that you have cleaned many school lists of India, removing all unsourced redlinked entries. I have been doing such to other lists lately. Was wondering why you did not merge School-lists with Educational-institutes-list; eg merge List of schools in Pune with List of educational institutes in Pune. I have boldly gone ahead and merged List of business schools in Pune and List of engineering colleges in Pune. But is there some special status given to schools? Or can those be merged too? Its easy to have all in one page. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 11:09, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

I think this was discussed at WT:INB around the time I cleaned up a few of those lists. I can't recall what the outcome was but, yes, the suggestion to upmerge into more generic lists was there somewhere. There was also a suggestion that the geographic scope be made less specific - I think Abecedare might have raised that. I could dig out the link to the thread but this is another of my fleeting visits, sorry. - Sitush (talk) 07:42, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Okay! Will wait for Abecedare now. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 08:46, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Mutharaiyar page has proper sources but you had deleted most content

You have removed authentic contents with lots of references , many well documented and known facts have been deleted by you, please do proper reasearch

Hi Sitush, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.58.212.132 (talk) 23:41, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Indic scripts galore

Hi Sitush, please take a look at Three Crowned Kings. - Kautilya3 (talk) 21:02, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

INDICSCRIPT only applies to the lead. They can certainly be removed from there and, frankly, I don't think they add anything of value in the remainder of the article. Be bold, I guess. If you are not then I may well be when I next log in. If I remember correctly, there is a small group of contributors who really push the use of Tamil on en-WP ... and they usually end up being blocked. It is just small-scale nationalism (linguistic division of states etc). - Sitush (talk) 23:17, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

I will let you do it and watch. There is some heavy use of templates that I have'nt seen before. - Kautilya3 (talk) 10:18, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Balija page edited with proper sources but had reverted back again

Hi Sitush,

U had reverted our page again, But we had given proper sources only but u had mentioned that as Unreliable one, whats wrong with my below proof.

By Devadatta Ramkrishna Bhandarkar. It mentions an inscription edited by Dr. Fleet, Vol XIII, p.185, in which Turagavedanga (Thiruvenkata ?) is mentioned as the "scion of Bali race" as Kishkinda-puravar-sevara and Bali-vamsa-odbhava. The publication "Genealogies of the Hindus, extracted from their sacred writings, pg. 48-49" mentions.The Epigraphia Indica, by Bhandarakar, Volume 42, p. 37. Yashoda Devi mentions in her book The History of Andhra Country, 1000 A.D.-1500 A.D.: Administration, literature and society.

The above one is a strong proof and how everytime u r reverting back and we are highly disappointed due to this ,see we are describing our Heritage and its true and not a fake one right.

Not necessary for us to do this and to to edit wrong information in wiki.

Kindly check once again and revert back

Karthick

Question about wikipedia procedeers

Hello, Sitush. Please check your email; you've got mail!
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Regarding date correction

Hi Sitush,

In an article Manorama, the date of death mentioned is 10 october, 2015, but according to Indian news outlets: http://indianexpress.com/article/entertainment/regional/legendary-tamil-actress-manorama-dies-at-78/ and http://www.ptinews.com/news/6601331_Legendary-Tamil-actress-Manorama-no-more.html reported death time is 12:05 AM IST, so technically the person died on 11 Oct, not on 10 Oct as mentioned in the wiki page, can you please look into this, as it may be a trivial issue, but here is difference of date. I tried to change it, but it got reverted. It was also changed by Vensatry but it got changed.

Thanks Work2win (talk) 09:47, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

You need to discuss this on the article talk page. - Sitush (talk) 13:16, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Pound sterling

Hi Sitush, there's a dilema going on in the talk page of the article. I'm looking for a third point of view. Thanks. (N0n3up (talk) 00:14, 17 October 2015 (UTC))

Sorry but I don't want to get involved in anything where Twobells is editing - my AGF has completely gone where he is concerned. - Sitush (talk) 13:16, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Ramana Maharshi

Impressive eye for details. My compliments. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 16:46, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

You've got mail!

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Jatav

I'm a jatav and i know about my caste more than other.you people just enter wrong info without any research,proper study.you people want people who are considered low caste to remain low caste. Jatav123 (talk) 13:13, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Please see WP:V and WP:RS. The article already reflects the possible Jat connection in any event. - Sitush (talk) 13:14, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

You have given references.have you yourself read those books properly? Jatav123 (talk) 13:20, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes. - Sitush (talk) 13:22, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Can you spare a little time?

Hope you read the message in the best of your health and mood. I need help and guidance. Please respond only if you are well and have time, else I will wait. Thanx.--MahenSingha (Talk) 16:17, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

I am about to stop for the day, Mahensingha. Ask away, though. There are plenty of helpful watchers of this talk page. - Sitush (talk) 16:21, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

I thought I dealt with it but the story does not end here. The proved sock puppet see here having multiple accounts, active on many Rajput and Bihari Rajputs like articles, sometimes shows having taken up the complete ownership, has strategically reported against my true efforts on wikipedia [3]. You and all true wikipedians are requested to extend your valuable opinion to safeguard wikipedia against such intentional harassment. Thanks. Here is the link for report--MahenSingha (Talk) 17:51, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Regarding Your Reverted Edits on Solanki„Tomara,Bargujar Pages

First of all,To start with Tomara Clan,Please find out some reliable sources for the ethnicity of the clan.The reference you mentioned(Rahul Khari)is himself from the Gurjar Community.Also please if you can,provide me a single epigraphic,numismatic, literary evidence stating Tomaras as Gurjara's.

Same was the case with Bargujar page.Ample references were provided for the edit.

Same was the Case with Chavda.Why did you remove the 10 references stating Chavda's as Rajputs?And BTW,you are not a authority on history to magnanimously edit the articles on history.

See this book,and go through it carefully.All the Muslim Gurjar's claim descent from Rajputs.Whereas,this reference by many Gurjars,is used for the negative statements than those stated in the book.You don't seem to bother about it.

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=oscmJoix2IAC&pg=PA200&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rajput Sirdar (talk) 05:00, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

It is a decent source but I'm not sure what you expect me to do with it, bearing in mind WP:NPOV (which says we should show all reliable opinions) and the numerous poor sources that you did in fact cite at articles such as Chavda dynasty. We do not, for example, use works published during the British Raj era, nor do we use stuff from Gyan Publishing House/Isha Books.

The row between Rajput and Gurjar POV-pushers, each claiming they are right and denying the possibility of the other viewpoint, has gone on here for years and, frankly, it becomes tiresome having to deal with the pettiness, especially when it is expressed through dreadfully poor edits. You could help to change this ... or you could follow in the footsteps of numerous past contributors who have ended up becoming frustrated and/or blocked from contributing due to their battleground mentality. - Sitush (talk) 06:28, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Is the NCERT(Governmenf of india) Social Science book of Class VIIth reliable source to you?Therein Tomars/Tanwars are referred clearly as Rajputs.

National Council Of Educational Research And Training :: Home - http://ncert.nic.in/ncerts/textbook/textbook.htm

Refer the class VIIth social science textbook for the ethnicity of Tomaras.Chapter Number 3,The delhi Sultans

File Link:- http://ncert.nic.in/ncerts/l/gess103.pdf

Rajput Sirdar (talk) 07:30, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Yeah NCERT standard 7th history book named as our past clearly mentions Tomara ruling Delhi as Rajputs, All the dynasties ruling India between 6th to 15th Century , majority of whom were of Kshatriya Origin or warrior tribes were assimilated under the adjective known as Rajput, it seems that there is some huge propaganda going on to deplete rajput history from 6 th to 15 th century AD and make them appear suddenly after that.. specially on wikipedia. where references are very partial. Take for eg. Rahul Khari's qoutes. No one knows him.. yet he had written some crap trying to prove tomara clan ruling Delhi as Gurjara with idiotic explanations which does not have credibility... any tom dick harry can write the book and put the references on Wikipedia,, Wikipedia has already lost it's credibility....

Interestingly, i have found one more such crap.. precisely the article named as Ror Dynasty on Wikipedia.haha.. The Dynasty never existed but yupp the ror community was successful in publishing one stupid book.. which states the whole history of this dynasty.. haha.. the same was put reference of wikipedia,, and here you go.. we have a section of ROR dynasty on wikipedia listed in the important dynasty timeline that ruled this area. haha.. just check that as well.

Well a small community of Karnal in Haryana, sometimes claiming Maratha origin .. sometimes Rajput origin .... suddenly has become rulers of a principality called rori in pakistan Invincible Chanakya (talk) 08:07, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

NCERT is definitely not reliable. See, for example, NCERT controversy. Various governments of India have gone out of their way to bend history for caste and nationalist reasons etc. - Sitush (talk) 15:58, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Being Middle Class in India Resource Exchange request

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A or An ? Grammar query

A HND or An HND ? Where HND = "Higher National Diploma". Anyone? - Sitush (talk) 07:51, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

I’d follow the long standing practice of using an for initialisms that start with vowel-sounding consonants - an RAF soldier, an MBA degree. - NQ-Alt (talk) 08:25, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

It should "an", since the "H" is pronounced "aitch", and the form is dependent on how it is pronounced. But either should be ok. Kingsindian ♝♚ 08:30, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Agree - an HND, although ironically it would be a Higher National Diploma - Arjayay (talk) 09:24, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Time for Talisker

I seriously hope I am not part of: "That you are mostly based in the US says it all: it is cultural imperialism of a type that only the US practice nowadays."

I had noticed all the drama lately, including the spin-off drama it caused. It appeared to me that everyone should have taken a week away from it all and had some Talisker(or single malt scotch of choice), then came back with cooler heads and/or egos. --Kansas Bear (talk) 15:35, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

I didn't say all people from the US. And I'm on opiate prescription meds, so no alcohol for me. The easiest way to have prevented this drama - aside from Kirill applying some common sense at the outset - is to deactivate User talk:Jimbo Wales. It is nothing but a cess-pit, a forum for shout-y WMF acolytes and God-King followers with nothing better to do. - Sitush (talk) 16:11, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

No harm, no foul, Sitush. I wasn't taking it personal. --Kansas Bear (talk) 17:50, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Look at the edit summary here. This is the sort of WMF-centric "moral ambitiousness" censorship that we're having to deal with. There are various attempts to silence anyone who doesn't fit the mould that Kevin Gorman and his like have deemed to be The Way Forward. It is not misogynistic to say that there are or have been some mad, bad and sad women on this project ... but it is in the eyes of these ridiculous specimens (yes, mostly from the US) who revel in their closeness to the God-King. Basically, if anyone says anything that is critical of a woman on Wikipedia, these people think you are a misogynist and they keep beating that drum right the way to The Atlantic etc. It's about time they toned down their moral crusade and did some bloody work actually improving the content here. That so many of them are admins is particularly worrisome. - Sitush (talk) 19:53, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

• Sitush, are you really trying to drag me on to your own page after you've both explicitly asked me not to engage here, and I just reverted your comment on my own page? Just curious - but do you realize that I don't think I've spoken with Jimbo directly in at least a couple of years, can't remember the last time I posted on his page, have not had any connection to the WMF for years, had no connection to the Atlantic article, have an ongoing discussion on my page about how to improve the enfranchisement of arbcom eligible voters after coming across multiple significant content creators who were unaware they could vote, and that my academic background is a critical theorist and post-colonial geographer whose primary body of work involves criticizing American imperialism and continuing colonial efforts? The fact that I'm a US citizen and am willing to call out racism and sexism where I see it occur coupled with the fact that Kirill Lokshin's reading of policy is absolutely correct doesn't make me some sort of imperial minion.

Kansas - may I suggest a bottle of Balvenie's carribbean cask if you haven't had it before? Talisker admittedly isn't one of my favorites to begin with, but carribbean cask is quite delicious. (Barring that, I have to admit I'm a huge fan of Ardbeg Uigeadail.) Kevin Gorman (talk) 22:54, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

No, so fuck off, Kevin. You are a twat when it comes to this issue and, yes, you are a WMF acolyte. If I have previously asked you not to post here then I apologise because that is very uncommon of me. However, I don't want to read social engineering crap and that is what you are coming out with. We are primarily an encyclopaedia, not a social experiment designed to give a voice to everyone - otherwise, why would we even bother blocking and banning people? - Sitush (talk) 00:35, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for acknowledging that I can be a valued contributor ([4]). That means a lot coming from you, and I want you to know how much I appreciated the sentiment. RO^(talk) 20:55, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Vested contributors arbitration case opened

You may opt-out of future notifications related to this case at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Vested contributors/Notification list. You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Vested contributors. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Vested contributors/Evidence. Please add your evidence by November 5, 2015, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Vested contributors/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, L235 (t / c / ping in reply) 01:19, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Arb Case Amend Request

Please see [[5]]. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 02:22, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Vested contributors retitled Arbitration enforcement 2

You may opt-out of future notifications related to this case at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Arbitration enforcement 2/Notification list. You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Arbitration enforcement 2. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Arbitration enforcement 2/Evidence. Please add your evidence by November 5, 2015, which is when the evidence phase closes. For this case, there will be no Workshop phase. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 13:02, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Vadde raju

Could you take a look at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vadde raju and also see if the article is a duplicate of Vaddera. Bgwhite (talk) 21:21, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

The British Empire a "Superpower" and "World Power"

Hi Sitush, do you agree that the British Empire was a "Superpower" and "World Power"? [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13], [14]. (N0n3up (talk) 22:08, 29 October 2015 (UTC))

Ravidassia

From what I can tell, this one might be somewhat in your ballpark,maybe more yours than mine. The group is also called the "Dalit Sikhs," apparently, because most or all of the membership seems to maybe arise from the chamar caste. I am going to try to gather together such information as I can find relating to it later this week, but I would definitely welcome any input from someone who knows something about caste issues. John Carter (talk) 01:10, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

When it is time to go

When ArbCom cuts huge chunks of evidence, hats reasonable dissent, abandons some well-established procedures without public discussion, and fails to add obvious people to the case list (Jimbo, EvergreenFir, Kevin Gorman, Gamaliel etc) then things are bad. When it is also apparent that the WMF-hosted GG-l mailing list and presumably its private offshoots are attempting to organise en bloc voting in the forthcoming ArbCom elections, and when Wales and his arselicking acolytes are totally incapable of respecting common courtesies such as right to reply at the Alternate Village Pump. And when The Signpost becomes little more than an organ for the social engineering hippy bollocks that is Friendly Space ...

Well, it is probably time to go. - Sitush (talk) 13:24, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

...Which is exactly what they want so, no. Courage mon brave! don't let them drive you away. Richerman (talk) 13:41, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

We've been there before Sitush [15]. --regentspark (comment) 13:43, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

• Thank you. I honestly appreciate all you've done. — Ched :  ?  05:15, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Arb Enforcement 2 is as bad as any case I have seen. The evidence sections seem to be dominated by opinions, save maybe four sections with diffs...but even those are laced with embedded critique. I think we all know what the outcome will be.--MONGO 07:46, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Banning policy amendment request

The request for amendment of the banning-policy case has been archived at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Banning Policy#Amendment request: Banning Policy (November 2015). For the Arbitration Committee, Miniapolis 23:42, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

		Happy Diwali!!!
		Sky full of fireworks, Mouth full of sweets, Home full of lamps, And festival full of sweet memories... Wishing You a Very Happy and Prosperous Diwali. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 04:21, 10 November 2015 (UTC) Send Diwali wishings by adding {{subst:Happy Diwali}} to people's talk pages with a friendly message.

Diwali greetings

		Happy Diwali!!!
		Sky full of fireworks, Mouth full of sweets, Home full of lamps, And festival full of sweet memories... Wishing You a Very Happy and Prosperous Diwali. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 06:42, 11 November 2015 (UTC) Send Diwali wishings by adding {{subst:Happy Diwali}} to people's talk pages with a friendly message.

The article Meena

A lot of disruption like removal of sourced contents, addition of unsourced/poorly sourced contents has been done. I know that you worked a lot for this article, so thought to inform. Regards.--MahenSingha (Talk) 19:03, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Please find new logic at Talk:Meena for your entertainment.--MahenSingha (Talk) 20:04, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Check

Could you check this? --Tito Dutta (talk) 10:57, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

No, sorry. I'm not well and I have almost zero interest in WP right now. WT:INB is your friend. - Sitush (talk) 01:41, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

I am VERY sorry to see this. I do wish the best of health ASAP. Best, — Ched :  ?  19:58, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Extending my good wishes too -- Clem Rutter (talk) 20:06, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

From me too, after surgery, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:13, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Hypocrisy

See this - “I am a big advocate of freedom: freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of thought” - Jimmy Wales, Founder of Wikipedia [sic] and Chairman of JWF". Advocate when it suits him, obviously, but this is the same guy who objects to people using the word "hysterical" on his talk page because some doltheads think it is a sexist term and he likes bandwagons. I see no reason why this man should be treated any differently on Wikipedia to any other "contributor", content-oriented or otherwise. But even in the latest ArbCom balls-up he seems to be accorded special status, and his toxic influence at WP conferences etc knows no bounds. It is freedom when it suits him, not freedom per se. That makes him human, perhaps, but we really do need to end this cult of personality here and that has to start at the top. - Sitush (talk) 01:40, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

The "hysterical" word is an odd case because context matters. I often use the word to refer to the level of comedic value in a work of art, which is generally acceptable. However, because of its sexist historical baggage, it is less acceptable to refer to a person, usually a woman, as "hysterical". I know, it's confusing, but just remember "funny" is okay, but describing a woman as hysterical is not. Viriditas (talk) 10:52, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Your opinion is not one I recognise as being valid in the UK. Is this yet more US-centric systemic bias? - Sitush (talk) 05:07, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

And I notice that the gender gap bloc have now turned up at the ArbCom noms - Gorman, Gorilla, Keilana etc. Bollocks to them: go do your politicising in a political arena, not here. - Sitush (talk) 16:46, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Personal attacks

Please don't repeat a personal attack of the kind you just made at Talk:International reactions to the November 2015 Paris attacks. I redacted the beginning of your comment. Fences&Windows 00:43, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Do you think I give [redacted]? Have you seen the PAs aimed at me beforehand? - Sitush (talk) 00:46, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

I was responding to an immediate clear attack. If you were having issues with civility and other using attacking you, you should have used dispute resolution and not escalated. I have blocked you for 24 hours to avoid disruption to that talk page, which is fraught enough already. Fences&Windows 01:01, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Why was Sitush's comment redacted? "a fucking shit" is a pretty innocuous expression on its own merits, and compared to the acceptable standards on wiki becomes even more so. In addition Sitush, being blocked, needs to vent. Redacting his phrase adds insult to injury. Why treat such a veteran editor with such heavy-handed contempt? Dr. K. 03:11, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

No response from F&W, I see. I'm not surprised: I've never held them in much regard. I'm tempted to restore the redaction, which was not a personal attack. If you don't like my occasionally colourful use of language here, F&W, then go sing kumbaya someplace else. - Sitush (talk) 05:11, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Tut tut. Where was F&W's moral crusade at this time? - Sitush (talk) 08:56, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

wow

ya just really can't make this stuff up. Damn, I really do appreciate you and all the other folks who actually did put out content. Thanks Sitush. — Ched :  ?  01:15, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Sitush was frustrated and swore. But I can't see where he repeated any personal attacks after Fences and windows warned him, so how could he be regarded as "disruptive"? Was the block a punishment? Or perhaps the real reason was Sitush's subsequent comment, "Admins are not gods". Was this the disruptive "personal attack"? --Epipelagic (talk) 02:02, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

We are now terminally into the twilight of the serious content builder on Wikipedia, that's one thing that is sure. --Epipelagic (talk) 02:07, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

The other thing that's sure is that the admins on Wikipedia are now gods. --Epipelagic (talk) 02:26, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

• I have unblocked. There must be some mistake, as the user had not repeated any personal attack (or indeed edited the page in question again) after being warned. Surely no admin would block merely over insufficient deference versus themselves? Bishonen | talk 04:02, 16 November 2015 (UTC).

Would not the upcoming arbiter of that be the great admin grandee Kudpung? Would he not disagree with you? --Epipelagic (talk) 04:28, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

I couldn't say. A single arbitrator isn't actually the arbiter of anything much. And what makes you think Kudpung would necessarily disagree, or that he will necessarily get in? In any case, you should support Drmies for arbcom, to make sure there's plenty of pushback against any and all "great admin grandees" (not saying Kudpung is one). Bishonen | talk 10:41, 16 November 2015 (UTC).

What an extraordinary decision, User:Bishonen, to, outside of any appeals process or discussion with the blocking admin (User:Fences and windows) unilaterally overturn a block. Here are the countless examples of personal abuse by Sitush because of a content dispute at International reactions to the November 2015 Paris attacks:

• Calling me a dimwit on my talkpage and "fucking stupid"
• Telling User:Fences and windows to "fuck off" when they posted a polite note here and responding "Do you think I give a fucking shit"
• Calling me clueless, telling me to "fuck off" and calling my writing style atrocious.
• Threatening me at my talkpage
• Reverting me at International reactions to the November 2015 Paris attacks by using an edit summary of "stop being a twat and find a reliable source - this one is useless" - source being referred to as useless is Deutsche Welle
• Calling me a dimwit here

Why did you unblock unilaterally outside of proper process? AusLondonder (talk) 16:18, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

• • See WP:NOTBURO. To be fair, AusLondoner, you do come across as pretty clueless a lot of the time. This doesn't excuse Sitush's loss of temper, but it does explain it to some degree. When someone with a clue encounters someone with no idea what we are trying to do on this project, but who nevertheless has a lot of time to sink into messing things up, it takes a lot of discipline to walk away. Not everyone has that discipline. I'm sure you will continue to provoke reactions like this as long as your poor behaviour continues, AusLondoner. --John (talk) 22:46, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I wasn't aware but it appears that I was blocked sometime in the last 24 hours. All that would appear to prove is that Fences and windows was somewhat myopic when it comes to the big picture. A prominent part of that big picture, aside from the obvious cluelessness of Auslondonder, is the notice at the top of this very page. I also mentioned somewhere in that palaver that I was doped on morphine and was going to bed. The block came after that, I think, because I certainly didn't see it. D'oh. - Sitush (talk) 00:36, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

• If further evidence of Auslondonder's ineptitude is needed, see this. I'm not well enough to keep much of an eye on things at the moment but some people certainly should because F&W completely misread what was going on above and elsewhere. - Sitush (talk) 04:44, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

• Wow indeed. I'm rather surprised Ritchie333, who closed the AfD as snow keep and mentioned WP:NPA, didn't even warn AusLondonder for his deplorable input there. Bishonen | talk 09:09, 18 November 2015 (UTC).

• From my experience, if you make any personal comment when closing an AfD, it comes back to haunt you and leads to everyone pointing their finger at each other. Anyway, Sitush is a good editor with numerous wads of featured content under his belt and service beyond the call of duty in dealing with notorious Indian sockfarms, so an unblock sounds good to me. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 09:14, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Ritchie333, I was just coming back to strike my comment on your non-action against Auslondoner on that occasion. It can be seen as quite reasonable since there would be no more input once the AfD was closed. It's a bit unfortunate that none of the people involved in the discussion alerted admin (for instance via ANI) — there was no admin there as the discussion proceeded. If I'd happened to see the first "Corbett Defence League" sneer, I'd have warned sharply, then immediately blocked if there was more of the same. As for my unblock, yes, thanks, and Fences and Windows himself has thanked me — if not for unblocking, then not far off.[16] Bishonen | talk 09:37, 18 November 2015 (UTC).

I didn't realise that this had spread to F&W's talk page also, although I guess I should have done because Bish would at least have dropped a courtesy note there regarding the unblock. FWIW, you've only got to read Auslondonder's talk page to see that there is a pattern of ineptitude forming: they're quick with the acronyms but, alas, seem not to understand them very well. That is what tipped me into have my moment of madness because at the Paris reactions article they were repeatedly mis-stating both the intentions of people who disagreed with him/her and the function of AfD with regard to WP:CONSENSUS. AfD determines the consensus for keeping/deleting an article on the basis of GNG etc but not the consensus for the actual content. That they did this repeatedly did become a serious misrepresentation of me and others. - Sitush (talk) 13:31, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Smallbones hatchet job

This is a lovely hatchet job by Smallbones, completely misrepresenting what was said. Like a true Gender Gapper, he never lets the truth get in the way of his agenda. - Sitush (talk) 06:59, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

harvey karp

the source of the addition is already mentioned, it is the article of frenken. this much more trustworthy than teh cited sources whicxh obviously stem from karp himself, using wikipedia for self advertisement. Mr. bobby (talk) 11:32, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Comment needed

see Sheikh Noor-ud-din Wali — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.166.163.158 (talk) 11:56, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Henry Bessemer and James Nasmyth

Hello, I noticed you were the one who added the bit about James Nasmyth working on an invention that shared some characteristics with the Bessemer process for some time prior to Henry Bessemer's patent to the page on Henry Bessemer. I was wondering if you could tell me where you found this information, as I've been trying to find sources dealing with the history of blowing air through molten iron for a while now and have only found one or two sources for it, neither of which goes into much detail.SQMeaner (talk)

This is some years ago but did I not give a source? Almost from the outset of my time here I have insisted on WP:V. I do vaguely remember editing the articles and they were around the time when I really ramped up my editing, following on from events related to Churchill Machine Tool Company. I do still have the relevant books/papers etc. Give me a few hours to delve through things and - in advance - my apologies if I messed it up. - Sitush (talk) 01:31, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

You did provide a source for the claim that Nasmyth turned down an offer of one-third the value of Bessemer's patent by Bessemer, though whether that also covers the fact that Nasmyth was working on blowing air/steam through iron 'for some time' before Bessemer isn't clear to me. A few extra citations couldn't hurt anyway.SQMeaner (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:44, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

It is on p. 164 of the Lord source that I cited. I've just checked it again. Inter alia, "Present at this [1856] meeting was James Nasmyth, of Bridgewater Fpundry, Patricroft, who listened to this novel paper with mixed feelings of interest and regret for he had himself to some extent anticipated Bessemer's own invention. In 1854 he had patented a process for puddling iron by means of a jet of steam, and this process had been satisfactorily tested in Bolton." Both men's autobiographies also refer to this but I would have ignored those due to WP:PRIMARY. - Sitush (talk) 19:49, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

The thing is, I found another source that indicates Nasmyth was experimenting with a similar process as early as 1841. I was well aware of Nasmyth's 1854 patent. What I was really hoping you could provide was a source that goes into detail on Nasmyth's work prior to his 1854 patent. Incidentally, the source is here, on pages 71-72: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=pgMyBgAAQBAJ&dq=Bessemer+Nasmyth&source=gbs_navlinks_sSQMeaner (talk)

Yes, I am aware that Nasmyth may have been experimenting before 1854. But so what? The article is about Bessemer and it is correct in saying that Nasmyth's efforts had gone on "for some time" previously. - Sitush (talk) 21:51, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:34, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

ACE

Just voted. I thought long and hard about this and I'm only happy with two out of all the candidates. I don't see the point in voting neutral, which just allows stuff to happen via the back door. If you are not sure someone is ok, vote against. These are (regrettably) powerful positions and the default should always be to oppose. - Sitush (talk) 00:32, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

And there is some interesting discussion going on at Wikipediocracy in an attempt to discern why the voting numbers are so high at such an early stage. It doesn't take a genius to work it out, does it? And, no, it is not the new mass notification system. - Sitush (talk) 00:36, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Madurai Nayak Dynasty

Hello Sitush, How have you been doing? Happy Thanksgiving! When possible, please could you look into the articles Madurai Nayak Dynasty and Nayaks of Kandy ? The IP address 175.101.62.191 is making the usual claim. This time, in the Madurai Nayak Dynasty article, he is into changing the quoted reference as well. He is also making unreferenced claims in other articles. Kindly handle his edits. Thanks. --Mayasutra [= No ||| Illusion =] (talk) 15:57, 26 November 2015 (UTC)Mayasutra

Gyan source

Hi Sitush, I saw that you removed a source with a comment stating Gyan is not RS. I'm not familiar with Gyan, and it does seem to conflict with more reliable sources such as this one, but I'm curious to find out why you think Gyan is not reliable? Thanks, -Zanhe (talk) 22:35, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Gyan has long been considered an unreliable publisher by Wikipedians. Moonriddengirl probably knows the history better than me but one of the big problems is that we know their books copy stuff from Wikipedia itself, creating an unacknowledged circular reference. They are definitely mentioned in the list at WP:MIRROR but I think people long ago gave up listing the numerous examples of plagiarism etc. I've given an example at User:Sitush/Common#Gyan if that is of any use. I could have given many more that I've spotted over the years. - Sitush (talk) 00:04, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your insight, Sitush! Unfortunately, it appears that Gyan sources are used in hundreds of articles, [17], and some people are now restoring information from the Gyan source you removed on Cho La incident, while removing scholarly sources like this. -Zanhe (talk) 00:38, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Thousands, actually. That doesn't mean they should be used. Nuke on sight, I say. - Sitush (talk) 00:40, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Follow-up question for Sitush and any friendly stalkers; is this a problem through all of Gyan's product, or is it subject-specific? There's sources from Gyan in articles on topics in biology (why the authors couldn't find a better source beats me) but I'm not sure whether they are bad enough to be removed there, too. Vanamonde93 (talk) 15:49, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

I don't think we should be encouraging blatant commercial plagiarism and, obviously, we also can't use sources that have a long track record of copying unreliable material from places such as, um, Wikipedia! The subject area doesn't matter, imo. - Sitush (talk) 16:57, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

My feeling is that Gyan basically prints everything they think they can sell. Some good writers too have used them, e.g., Ram Puniyani. It just means that there is no editorial oversight, and we should regard it as if is self-published. - Kautilya3 (talk) 22:43, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Incidentally, I think the same conclusions hold good for Concept Publishing and Atlantic Publishers. - Kautilya3 (talk) 22:56, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

That makes Ram Puniyani a poor writer. --AmritasyaPutra^T 01:50, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Great Dismal Swamp question

I noticed that Mahensingha, a user who Bishzilla said nice things about in her arbcom guide (although she ultimately didn't support), has been blocked for edit warring on a caste article, and subsequently retired. I really don't get the whole caste thing, but Zilla's comments in her guide make me think maybe you do, a little? Or @Sitush: once said something approving of them or something? If so, I don't know if outside intervention is appropriate/useful or not. But thought I'd point it out. (I'm not pinging them since they're blocked, and put up a retired banner; not looking to poke them if people in the know think this was an appropriate block). --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:47, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Oh. Um, hi Si. This is embarrassing, I actually meant to post this on Bish's talk page. But since I mention you, I guess this isn't a bad place instead. I just don't know if my first impression (that Mahensingha was doing the right thing in the wrong way) is correct or not. Any advice/opinion? --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:51, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Oh, that is a disaster. Why did he get involved in a caste page in the middle of an ARBCOM election? Perhaps he never got his hands dirty with contentious articles before. If so he needs to. But this was bad timing! - Kautilya3 (talk) 21:29, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

• Interesting question. Looks like a long running dispute between Mahensingha and the other editor so perhaps they should have been more careful. To Mahensingha's credit, they weren't really edit warring and the other editor was definitely trying to hide their edit (fix typo!!) but they were exhibiting signs of ownership. You can see this happening, 4500 edits is no way near enough to grasp the swampiness of Wikipedia. Perhaps they will return and this time as a wiser editor. --regentspark (comment) 21:54, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

• I have left a note on their talk page. I can do no more at the moment, sorry. - Sitush (talk) 00:42, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

• More research and the block doesn't really look necessary. Mahensingha was not edit warring (a couple of reverts perhaps) and the forum shopping happened in the middle of November (two weeks in wiki time is an eon).--regentspark (comment) 01:00, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

• User:Mahensingha was blocked for a week. If he will post an unblock request, it ought to be considered. He doesn't look to be one of the problem editors on caste articles. EdJohnston (talk) 02:26, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

• In this particular case I'd recently added the article to my watchlist but as I've been strapped for wiki time I didn't take any action; it did seem quite appropriate that the other editor in question should be topic banned under WP:GS/Caste (or WP:AC/DS per EdJ's ARBIPA warning). But, Floquenbeam, you are right in that MS has been doing the right thing with the wrong approach, sadly none of the regular editors (Sitush et al) or admins (Bish, Utcursch, me etc) who operate in the caste area saw this unfold to intervene early on and save one of the more reasonable editors from being sucked into the swamp. —SpacemanSpiff 02:42, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Note also the serious competency/cheese issues of the opposite party, such as this gem [18]. - Kautilya3 (talk) 03:01, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

That is a gem worth saving! @JamesBWatson:, you may want to reconsider your block of Mahensingha in the light of the discussion above. While the block is not necessarily unwarranted, we should try to retain good editors. --regentspark (comment) 04:00, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

OK, since I have been pinged by RegentsPark, I have come and looked at this.

It is not quite true to say that Mahensingha "has been blocked for edit warring on a caste article", as it was actually for a combination of reasons, with the edit-warring being only a part of it. It is also not true that the forum-shopping was restricted to a period two weeks before the block, as one of the comments above implies: the latest round in the forum shoshopping is here, a little more than two hours before the block. As for the statement that Mahensingha wasn't edit-warring, I would not have blocked for that alone, but there certainly was edit-warring, for example, this edit was reverted here here and here. This is in addition to earlier edit-warring, as for example in these fairly recent edits on the same article: [19] [20] [21] and at various times in the past. However, the biggest single fact which encouraged me to take the edit-warring more seriously than I might otherwise have done was the fact that Mahensingha had himself/herself reported the edit-war. I am only too well aware that a large number of editors who get into edit-wars think that being right in one's edits means that it doesn't count as edit-warring, but that is not so. The editor had previously been warned about edit-warring, and a fairly extended discussion followed. Mahensingha was clearly informed as to what the edit-warring policy was, and then clearly indicated, by making an edit-warring report, that he/she personally regarded the exchange of edits that he/she was involved in as an edit-war. If one is in an edit-war, knows that what one is in is an edit-war, and has previously been made well aware of what the edit-warring policy is, then a conviction that one is "right" does not diminish one's responsibility for having edit-warred.

The manifest shortcomings of the other editor do not make any difference, as Mahensingha's block has to be assessed on the basis of what Mahensingha has done.

We have an editor who has for a long time been editing in ways that are not in line with accepted practice. Even the one editor who above has been arguing against the block says that he/she has been "exhibiting signs of ownership"; there have been repeated incidents of edit-warring over a period of months, despite being warned; there has been forum-shopping. As I said in the block notice, the length of the block takes into consideration the fact that the editor indicated an awareness of the fact of edit-warring. Nevertheless, perhaps for a first block a week was longer than was necessary, so I shall reduce it to three days, which means it will expire in a little over two hours from now. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 11:43, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) @JamesBWatson: You are correct in your understanding of the rules: edit-warring is not permitted even when one is right, or convinced that you are right. Unfortunately, as anyone who has spent a few hours looking into this area (I don't edit in this area, but have a public related changes link on my userpage - I click on it from time to time and sink deeper into despair), there are a ton of sockpuppets and clueless people who do edit-war, and drag everyone down to their level. You might want to consider this in your response. Kingsindian ♝♚ 14:11, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Invasion of Gujrat article content and reference

I got it mostly from the book "Maharana Sanga The Hindupat, the Last Great Leader of the Rajput Race by Bilas Sarda" I did give references if they are not put properly i would ask for your help and would be grateful as im trying to promote these wars that were won by Rana Sanga. The book can be found on forgotten books i can send the pdf of the book if you want. Im new to this and took some format info from other articles thats probably why it looked like i copied it.Divyraj (talk) 20:13, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

This is the bibliography of the book "Maharana Sanga The Hindupat, the Last Great Leader of the Rajput Race by Bilas Sarda"

BIBLIOGRAPHY. Colonel James Tod's Annals and Antiquitietof Rajarthcm, Volumes I and II. W. Erskine's Memoirs of Babur. Bhavanagar Inscriptions by Peter Peterson (English and Sanskrit). Epigraphia Indica (Sanskrit and English). W. Erskine's History of India, Volumes I and II. Major Luard's Bibliographyof Literature dealing with the Central India Agency, "c. Sir E. C. Bayley'sHistory of Gujarat (LocalMuhaomiadan Dynasties,Gujarat). M. Elphinstone'sHistory of India. A. K. Forbes' Ras Mala. J, Brigg's Tarikhi Ferishta. C. Mabel Duff's Chronology of India. Sir H. Elliot's History of India (Muhammadan Period). Stanley Lane Poole's Babur. Tdbqati Akbari by Nizam uddin Ahmad (Persian). Maharana Yash Prakash by T. Bhur Singh of Malsisar (Hindi). Chaturkula Charitra by T. Chatur Singh of Rupaheli, Mewar (Hindi). Mirati Sikandari (Persian). Muntakbabul Tawarikh by Badauni (Persian). Rai Mai Rasa (a Sanskrit Manuscript). Barwa Devidan's GeneologicalRecord (Hindi Manuscript). Mehta Nanisi's Chronicles (Marwadi Manuscript). R. B. P. Gauri Shanker Ojha'sHistory of Sirohi (Hindi). Kaviraj Shyamaldas' Vir Vinod (a most valuable Historyof Mewar in Hindi). Tarikh-i-Salatin-i-Afghana(Persian). Tarikh-i-Daudi (Persian). Marwar Khydt (Hindi Manuscript).

I know James tod is biased and agree that he shouldnt be used solely but the writer has used multiple references in his book and i believe its legit.Also Both Muslim and Hindu sources have been used.Divyraj (talk) 06:45, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

deletion of Invasion of Gujrat

I agree that the heading is wrong and confusing and regret it. Can we change the heading or maybe delete and make a new article on this subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Divyraj (talk • contribs) 15:13, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

I am sorry for not replying sooner. Please bear with me - I'm having a rough couple of days. - Sitush (talk) 10:51, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Oh thats alright hope you get well soon! I have also asked for help from other Wikipedia editorsDivyraj (talk) 13:44, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Email

Hello, Sitush. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 19:03, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

User:Sitush

	User:Sitush
	which type of source u want Ravindra kumar Arkavanshi (talk) 15:23, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

WP:RS is our guide to sourcing. - Sitush (talk) 08:58, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Komati

Kindly do not entertain unrelated stories that try to derive the authentic word for Trading class in (Telugu language) Andhra/Telengana from Jainism or Sanskrit. Read the earliest mention of the word for TradingClass by Yuan Chwang the Buddhist Chinese Pilgrim to (Amaravathi)Andhra.

Komatis are Komatis themselves, they are Telugus. They are borguise class of Andhra/Telengana even in the days of Eastern Chalukyan Kingdom of Vengi.

By the by I am a Komati, and I know very well about my caste, I am open to discussion>

Earliest recorded factual history of Komatis dates to the days of Buddhist Chinese Traveller Yuan Chwang to the Eastern Chalukyan kingdom of Vengi. He refered the Komatis to be traders of Andhra, they adhered strongly to Caste system. And he says that they are a caste of Hindus, different from Jains and Buddhists, he himself being a Buddhist reports factual data correctly http://www.katragadda.com/articles/HistoryOfTheAndhras.pdf p.110

Kindly refer Vasavi Kanyaka Parameswari and Penugonda, HuenTsang for earliest recoded mention of the term Komatis in Andhra history

My Contribution: CLEAN UP of the Article. Fantastic renditions and alterations and false derivations plague the article, which I have purged. e.g - Komati derived from go-mati what's go mati?? then again go to either 1)Sanskrit to give unrelated interpretaions of the Word Komati or to 2)Jainism with fantastic fabrications to show that they are Jains initially

Please stop such nonsense, kindly do not entertain unrelated stories, views of unqualified authors regarding Komatis

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mondivadu (talk • contribs) 08:26, 7 December 2015‎

If you have any reliable academic etc sources to support your opinion then please raise them at Talk:Arya Vaishya. Please note that your own opinion counts for nothing much, per our treatment of original research, and that ancient primary sources also carry little weight. I have no objection to citing the opinion of Durga Prasad but it must be done within the wider context: we can't assign an excessive weight to one academic's view over that which several other academics hold because to do so would be to fall foul of our aim of presenting a neutral point of view. - Sitush (talk) 08:58, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

What a sense of fairness in Wiki when the article in question refers to us Komatis and gives definitions to the names of our caste according to worldwide authors, wow
being new to Wiki I need guidance at slow pace, could I talk to you in this regardMondivadu (talk) 17:17, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

lodhi

why you remove my article! fist this is hindu community not a muslim?

seacond your all imformation is worng! Please verify it — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prajput27 (talk • contribs) 18:39, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

regarding meenas

If I edit the page in my own words and use the information from the source then I think I am not violating Wikipedia copyright laws . So if next time I edit that page I hope it will not get reverted by any editor. Thanks 786 (talk) 12:54, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

If you use your own words then of course you would not be breaching WP:COPYRIGHT. - Sitush (talk) 09:00, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your cooperation 786 (talk) 18:54, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Caste_system_in_India#More_on_Caste_in_Buddhism

Can you input on the use of a Feminist book on the talk page?VictoriaGrayson^Talk 23:23, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

My apologies for the delay. That article has, and will continue to have, a heap of problems. The likelihood is that it will never get close to being encyclopaedic simply because it involves the dread word - caste. However, sources are sources and if there is a dispute regarding reliability etc then I guess WP:RSN is the way to go. This assumes that RSN has not been socio-politically hijacked like so many other areas of Wikipedia of late. I'm probably best keeping out of the specific discussion: people are now targeting me both on- and off-wiki with regard to ludicrous claims that have snowballed since a certain ArbCom case. I've no idea if I am a feminist because the word has so many interpretations but I am certainly not the misogynist that the idiots claim and I try to treat sources on merit. And I support the desire for "equality" generally, being one of those who has suffered the effects of "inequality" since birth.

As an analogy, it is perfectly ok to use, say, sources written by the Marxist school of history provided that due weight is observed. Kathleen Gough is an example of a reliable source who quite stridently pursued a particular line. The same, in principle, applies here. The key is a combination of NPOV and RS. - Sitush (talk) 00:51, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

December 2015

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at List of Iyengars. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been or will be reverted or removed.

• If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor then please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant notice boards.
• If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, please seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive, until the dispute is resolved through consensus. Continuing to edit disruptively could result in loss of editing privileges. Thank you. -- samtar ^whisper 16:36, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

See the article talk page. See the article history. See User:Sitush/Common#Castelists. See ya. - Sitush (talk) 16:38, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

It's winter (at the northern hemisphere), and the silly season has started, right? Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 16:43, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Entirely in the wrong, my most sincere apologies -- samtar ^whisper 16:45, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

No problem; apology accepted. - Sitush (talk) 16:46, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Now, does someone want to tell Deadly437, who has yet again added back the info despite me complying with their request to explain on the article talk page. - Sitush (talk) 16:47, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

I've given them several alerts. (Not sure which was the best one.) Bishonen | talk 17:19, 7 December 2015 (UTC).

Ok, thanks. I was hoping that JJ or Samtar would have a word. They might get through to the editor better than I would.

Joshua Jonathan I have no idea what qualifies as the silly season outside the UK but here it is often used to refer to the weird news hiatus that happens during the long summer parliamentary recess: news media end up filling space with all sorts of stuff that wouldn't usually make the cut. Outside of the media, I'm rather included to think that the UK silly season lasts pretty much all year round: never a day goes by when I don't see at least a dozen examples of daftness in real life ... and doubtless I commit some myself! - Sitush (talk) 17:43, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

I was busy, arguing with a Sri Lankanese orthodox Buddhist who was shocked by some scholarly insights. Montanabw used the phrase "silly season," of soemthing similar (I'm Dutch, after all, not British) with regards to the higher incidence of conflicts at Wikipedia during the (northern hemisphere) winter. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 18:15, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)I do say "silly season" as my own neologism for those periods when WP seems particularly prone to ridiculous nonsense. I personally attribute it to seasonal affective disorder — I don't know what they do with daylight savings time in UK and other nations, but here in the US, they keep pushing it later and later, with an abrupt change with a turn of the clock from what feels like a normal day to darkness by 5:00 pm (at least at the latitude I live) in early November, which absolutely wreaks havoc with circadian rhythms. It also worsens again in about March, which I attribute to cabin fever or something. Bleech. Montanabw^(talk) 18:48, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

This is a well-documented online phenomenon going back to Usenet days, on which Wikipedia inevitably has an article; it's generally considered an artefact of the timings of the academic year dumping a new batch of clueless know-it-alls into the wild every September, coupled with the dates on which people traditionally get new electronic hardware and the cold North American winters making casual users more likely to stay indoors and do things online. (MBW, you're aware that "dark at 5.00 pm" sounds like an endless summer from the perspective of Europe? Today's sunrise/set times for London are 0753 and 1551 respectively. Although we do get seven hour nights in summer to compensate.) ‑ Iridescent 00:08, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

My view is that September is pretty calm, it's the holidays and around March that I think "teh wiki" seems to go off its rocker, (I think it's the speed of encroaching dark, personally...) but yes, I do sometimes forget that cold, northern Montana is, nonetheless, at the same latitude as France or Switzerland, but today our sunrise/set is 8:02 am and 4:39 PM (1639 on a 24-hr clock) so yes, you do have a few more degrees north latitude (though we like to joke about being halfway to the North Pole here -- most of the Wyoming border is at about 45 N latitude and the Canadian border is at 49 N latitude). But nonetheless, it does seem the insanity is cyclical... somehow! Montanabw^(talk) 08:39, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Komati

Are Komati_caste and Komati (caste) the same?--Vin09 (talk) 12:42, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Yes. And also Arya Vaishya. There is some recent discussion at Talk:Arya Vaishya but it is pretty mangled due to yet another purveyor of WP:OR. - Sitush (talk) 12:45, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Fine.--Vin09 (talk) 13:27, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Population of Thevar/mukkulathor

Population of Thevar/mukkulathor by Times of India news agency

http://m.timesofindia.com/city/chennai/Rice-scheme-has-hit-their-income/articleshow/7938033.cms VikiAT (talk) 08:20, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Gurjar

Hi Sitush, I believe this [22] could be kept per WP:KEEP, even if we don't agree with it. It is properly sourced! Regards, kashmiri ^TALK 16:52, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Just to be clear, I am not aware of nor did I follow the history of your interation with that editor! kashmiri ^TALK 17:11, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

I am confused. The article is not up for deletion, which is the scenario that WP:KEEP addresses. In any event, there is a long-established consensus that we avoid the Raj era caste sources and I rather thought Saladin1987 had been told that previously. - Sitush (talk) 17:42, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

I meant WP:PRESERVE, sorry. Ok, clear re Raj sources, although I recall Saladin1987 quoted also a few newer publications. In any case, I think it would be fair to alert the reader in some way that the various theories on Gurjars' origin included origin in Georgia etc. Even if now discredited, such theories are more fittinh here than pseudo-linguistic speculations funnily named "linguistic theories" in the subsequent para. kashmiri ^TALK 01:54, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

what are raj era sources, general cunningham is a famous historian, how an we deny his sources? and where does it mention on wikipedia that to remove information based on era sources. Please provide a suitable answer behind removing all that informationSaladin1987 05:57, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Pre-1950 scholarship doesn't meet the modern standards of rigour. So we avoid them. In this particular case, however, I think the first paragraph is quite ok. It is properly attributed, and our state of knowledge hasn't improved much since then. But it would be better to find contemporary sources that say the same thing. - Kautilya3 (talk) 09:04, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

I agree with it so whatever part of information is acceptable should be added to the article. Gujjars are a big community but this article is pretty small and is more inclined towards hindu gurjars not muslim gujjars which are majority

Sock puppet

About this edit I guess User:MANI18 with User:WP MANIKHANTA are socks.--Vin09 (talk) 11:33, 15 December 2015 (UTC) I got an answer at User_talk:Arjayay#Sock_puppet.--Vin09 (talk) 11:54, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

History

Could you even check Kolletikota page History section?--Vin09 (talk) 16:48, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Season's Greetings

Hello Sitush: Enjoy the holiday season and upcoming winter solstice, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, VictoriaGrayson^Talk 02:28, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Use {{subst:Season's Greetings}} to send this message

VictoriaGrayson^Talk 02:28, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

It's that season again...

		Happy Saturnalia
		Wishing you and yours a Happy Holiday Season, from the horse and bishop person. May the year ahead be productive and troll-free. Ealdgyth - Talk17:29, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Greetings

Hello Sitush: Enjoy the holiday season and winter solstice, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, Tito Dutta (talk) 05:43, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Use {{subst:Season's Greetings}} to send this message

Best wishes for the holidays...

		Season's Greetings
		Wishing you a Happy Holiday Season, and all best wishes for the New Year! Hafspajen (talk) 11:53, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Exceeded 3RR

I've just exceeded 3RR at Talk:Gamergate controversy. Fed up of having to watch the cabal policing there. I know I'll be blocked but someone has to make a stand against the SPAs, the vested interests etc. - Sitush (talk) 18:24, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

3RR

Stop with the unhatting. You're over 3RR. ForbiddenRocky (talk) 18:24, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Fuck off. - Sitush (talk) 18:25, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

About Telugu Castes page:

Your personal opinion is immaterial, according to government source the caste name is Kshatriya not rajus.Government mentions rajus by the name of "Kshatriya" and nowhere "Raju" term is used.Then about Rajus caste, they are forward caste in Andhra Pradesh clearly mentioned in 43rd page in source, are you a fool why you don't understand,if wikipedia is your website then delete "Kshatriya" and mention as Raju in forward castes list in that page.Also Reddy caste is missing in that list which is also a forward caste in Andhra Pradesh.Don't act like a cunning culprit.I hope you understand.

Indeed the source does not mention Raju by name and that is why we do not. Similarly, Reddy is not mentioned. I've no idea why the government even persists with the charade unless they are unduly influenced by the Raju community: academic consensus is that neither the Vaishya nor Kshatriya varnas ever existed in south India. - Sitush (talk) 18:26, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

You fool!!! Some sects of Kshatriyas & Vaishyas, migrated from North India & settled in South India several hundreds of years ago i.e. < 500 A.D. which were written in many books & also accepted by historians.Kshatriyas in India are Rajputs & Rajus & six other castes, in all eight communities stated by Kumar Suresh Singh.Your consensus that "Kshatriyas & Vaishyas never existed in South India" is nothing but an agreement of several poisonous minds just for vandalizing articles & suppressing the truth and misguiding people. You & your dogs(admins who are your partners in vandalizing) are the ones who create consensus and are day by day spoiling the reputation of wikipedia.

Go to hell you culprits...

I would be interested to know more of those historians who advocate the position you mention. To the best of my knowledge, no modern academics do so, except those espousing the extremist Hindutva philosophy. - Sitush (talk) 18:34, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Buon Natale

May you have very Happy Holidays, Sitush...

and a New Year filled with peace and happiness!

Best wishes, Voceditenore (talk) 18:57, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you.

Do I give a shit? I've opened a thread on the Meta page that you drew to my attention. - Sitush (talk) 18:42, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

And, erm, actually there doesn't seem to be a report ther? - Sitush (talk) 18:43, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, didn't know if should notify or create report first. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#Sitush_reported_by_User:ForbiddenRocky_.28Result:_.29 ForbiddenRocky (talk) 18:49, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

FR - may I make a suggestion? Coming from someone who has been around wikipedia a very very long time. When your edit history looks like this - with 760 edits to the talk page of Gamergate and only 206 mainspace edits in total - you look like an SPA. You will have a better understanding of what wikipedia is actually about if you got away from the talk page of Gamergate and went and edited else where - totally away from the topic of online bullying, etc. As it is, you look like someone who is here to push an agenda - and that's not a good idea or very helpful to the encyclopedia. Ealdgyth - Talk 18:54, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

I've said the same, less eloquently. See you when I am unblocked. - Sitush (talk) 19:09, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Ealdgyth: different editors may reasonably undertake different tasks that benefit the encyclopedia. I personally think that stopping the use of Wikipedia for harassment and extortion are indeed helpful to the encyclopedia, and ForbiddenRocky has done his part in that effort. Keep in mind that the Gamergate pages have entailed nearly-unprecedented volumes of work over the past year: the talk pages run to hundreds of thousands of words, the pages of Gamergate targets have been subjected to incessant attack, and Gamergate-related matters have been fixtures at ArbCom and AE. In addition, anyone crossing Gamergate is liable to be subjected to fairly intense pressure offsite. It’s asking a lot to keep up with all this and also to be conspicuous elsewhere in the project. MarkBernstein (talk) 20:16, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

No, it isn't asking a lot. Wikipedia asks nothing of anyone: you, me and everyone else give what we can, when we can. You're nearly as bad as ForbiddenRocky in your obsessive focus on Gamergate: it isn't necessary and it isn't good for the project. - Sitush (talk) 20:19, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

I have already given my own viewpoint on the edit-warring noticeboard, but I'll give it here too. Nothing good is going to come from getting blocked to demonstrate a point. People will go on doing their stuff and nobody will care. The GG article will remain a huge mess. One has to be a consequentalist here. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 20:39, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Oh, no. You can be assured that something good will come of it. - Sitush (talk) 20:40, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

And anyone who is still in doubt regarding you being a snide piece of work need only examine your latest baseless insinuations designed to assassinate character. You should go the same way as ForbiddenRocky and, hopefully, soon will. - Sitush (talk) 20:39, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Happy Christmas!

		Happy Christmas!
		Have a happy holiday season. May the year ahead be productive and happy. John (talk) 17:40, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Season's greetings

To those above who have expressed their good wishes and to my talk page stalkers more generally, I convey my sincere best wishes at this time of the year, which has various significance in various cultures.

Sorry for not responding individually - no offence was intended. I've been awake now for nearly 72 hours and so it is unlikely I will be around for the next few days. At least, not unless even the sleeping tablet stuff fails to do its job. I need to reset my body clock. - Sitush (talk) 01:59, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement 2 case closed

You are receiving this message because you are a party or offered a preliminary statement and/or evidence in the Arbitration enforcement 2 case. This is a one-time message.

The Arbitration enforcement 2 arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t) has been closed, and the following remedies have been enacted:

1.1) The Arbitration Committee confirms the sanctions imposed on Eric Corbett as a result of the Interactions at GGTF case, but mandates that all enforcement requests relating to them be filed at arbitration enforcement and be kept open for at least 24 hours.

3) For his breaches of the standards of conduct expected of editors and administrators, Black Kite is admonished.

6) The community is reminded that discretionary sanctions have been authorised for any page relating to or any edit about: (i) the Gender Gap Task Force; (ii) the gender disparity among Wikipedians; and (iii) any process or discussion relating to these topics, all broadly construed.

For the Arbitration Committee, Kharkiv07 (T) 02:41, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Arbitration enforcement 2 case closed

Happy Holidays to you, your family and friends. May you have happy editing!

		Happy Holidays to you and your family and friends!
		May this season bring you joy and happiness and happy editing!.Mark Miller (talk) 02:41, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Talkback message from Tito Dutta

Hello, Sitush. You have new messages at Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics#Need_some_serious_help.
Message added 18:40, 25 December 2015 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Tito Dutta (talk) 18:40, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

2016

	Happy New Year 2016!
	Did you know ... that back in 1885, Wikipedia editors wrote Good Articles with axes, hammers and chisels? Thank you for your contributions to this encyclopedia using 21st century technology. I hope you don't get any unneccessary blisters.    – Cullen328 Let's discuss it 03:50, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Gnu Ear Greetings

	Hopp(y) Gnu Ear
	Hoppy Gnu Ear to you! Hoppy Gnu Ear to you! Be Safe! Buster Seven Talk 06:55, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year Sitush!

Happy New Year!

Sitush,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. Tito Dutta (talk) 19:00, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year 2016}} to user talk pages.

Happy New Year!

Sitush,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. SMahenS (Talk) 19:15, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year 2016}} to user talk pages.

--SMahenS (Talk) 19:15, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Savvyjack23 (talk) — is wishing you a Happy New Year! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the New Year cheer by adding {{subst:New Year 1}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Savvyjack23 (talk) 07:27, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Rajiv Dixit

Please read [23] and see the fantastic lies Wikipedia is spreading in India about such people. Yours in disgust, etc. etc. Sigmabaroda (talk) 12:14, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

• (talk page stalker) Will check. --Tito Dutta (talk) 12:26, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

• I quickly checked this article. And in my quick check, nothing seem to be very much serious at this moment. The M. Tech degree they are talking, that's also is cited. --Tito Dutta (talk) 12:29, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

• Do we have any other reliable source for his educational qualifications ?Sigmabaroda (talk) 12:48, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

• The article has always been poor and I've sometimes wondered whether the chap is even a notable crank. But using a personal blog entry to counter the sources doesn't really work very well. Especially when we are in the realms of conspiracy theories. - Sitush (talk) 12:36, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

The source cited was authored by Dixit's senior BM Kumaraswamy, National Convenor - Swadeshi Jagran Manch, in a hasty obituary. The personal blog was linked above only because it quickly encapsulates the arguments. Anyway, carry on with your lies. I suppose my next logical question will be where Dixit did his B.Tech from, his M.Tech and so on.Sigmabaroda (talk) 12:46, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

read carefully before you submit your next post here: on Wikipedia we rely on WP:5 and WP:RS. All 3ontent added to Wikipedia should be verifiable. Personal attacks will lead you nowhere. --Tito Dutta (talk) 12:50, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Do you realise how many Indians are walking around with fake degrees? There is a massive industry in such things over there and I'm afraid that the only way this could be satisfactorily resolved is if the awarding institution issued a statement one way or the other. And we would have to do the same for just about every article on an Indian person who allegedly has a degree. - Sitush (talk) 12:53, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

I can't make out who yourlast comment is addressed to,or even the point it makes. I am, however, categorically saying the statement reinserted that Rajiv Dixit is an M.Tech appears to be a "lie". Such an exceptional claim needs excellent sources considering the blogpost I linked to from the website of an author who himself holds a Ph.D in Economics from USA, and which blogpost derides Wikipedia (among others) for publishing this particular lie. Sigmabaroda (talk) 13:01, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Please see WP:VNT. - Sitush (talk) 13:03, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Please seeWP:RSBREAKING and WP:BDP. Sigmabaroda (talk) 13:11, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

I can't be arsed with this. I did ask that it be discussed at the article talk page but now I am completely fed up, just after I thought I might for once get a decent day's effort in here. I really do not give a crap about such a minor figure as Dixit and I don't understand why he attracts such ridiculous passions (both for and against). The man is dead and his notability is pretty borderline from what I can see. I'm out of here - you've successfully put me off editing for the rest of today at least. - Sitush (talk) 13:15, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Should I copy this to talk page of Rajiv Dixit so we can resume tomorrow ? Sigmabaroda (talk) 13:27, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

You may. You'll need to make clear that it has been copied. - Sitush (talk) 20:11, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

List of Nair citations

Hello Again. Firstly, he himself has said he is of the Nair caste. It is said that he is part of the caste as well. Second, it does not refer to his fictional work? I do not know what you mean by fictional work, it says he is part of Nair caste quite clearly. Lastly, you are at 3R as of right now, and you have made no attempt to discuss the removal of the citations. There are numerous sources of he himself saying he is a Nair, and for the second citation you reverted, I would like to make it clear again that it does not refer to his fictional work, it refers to what is being said about his own caste (i.e he says he is part of it).I am copying this to the talk page for the list of Nairs article. Rabt man (talk) 19:56, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Copy it wherever you like, Rabt man. My new rule for 2016 is to ignore the rantings of incompetents - you are not a newbie now. Go read User:Sitush/Common#Castelists (again), WP:OVERCITE and WP:SYNTH. - Sitush (talk) 19:59, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Dont worry, I read your caste lists rules. The citations were given accordingly. I guess the issue is sorted out, and anyway, happy new year. Rabt man (talk) 20:01, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Well, if you now accept that you were wrong then, yes, it is sorted out. However, it is worrying that you are persisting in these efforts despite this final warning last September. It was bad enough that you were caught socking around that time but that you have returned to make exactly the same sort of fundamentally questionable edits really does make me wonder. - Sitush (talk) 20:25, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes I do greatly regret what I had done earlier. In terms of the rest I believe most of it has been sorted out, but I belielve we can still discuss the issue of Tharoor on the talk page, as I had wrote the comment here after two or so of your reversions. Do not get me wrong, I still do believe that what I did a couple months ago was blatant incompetence towards Wiki policy. Perhaps we can work together in resolving this issue regarding the Tharoor stuff as well? I have posted a comment in the talk page of the 'List of Nairs' article in response in the hopes that we can share the input of it. Rabt man (talk) 20:35, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

The Tharoor stuff is best dealt with in the thread I opened at the article talk page. As stated there, this is not the first occasion where you have tried to bend WP:BLP relating to that guy and - since it was not just me who objected last time round - I remain concerned. Let's see what other people say there. - Sitush (talk) 21:02, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes, perhaps the opinions of different users will also help the discussion advance. Best regards, Rabt man (talk) 21:02, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

"90 edits"

FYI, WP:AGF I have 2 websites working on MediaWiki platform, so I know the technical side. Sigmabaroda (talk) 14:00, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

That means nothing when it comes to knowing English Wikipedia policies and guidelines, including WP:AGF itself. However, I did AGF: as I intimated, a lot of people start out here editing anonymously and then register an account. - Sitush (talk) 14:13, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

FWIW, some kind editor had posted a lovely message on my talkpage [24] when I first began editing here, and I also took the The Wikipedia Adventure. Quite different from your days I expect. Sigmabaroda (talk) 14:36, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

No, not all that different. It's just that I learned from it and didn't go around causing fights from the get-go. - Sitush (talk) 14:38, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Telaga

I've locked the article for a week. If sock puppetry resumes following the expiration of the protection, I'll re-protect the article for 6 months. Just drop me a note on my talk page and remind me about this discussion. Mkdw^talk 07:56, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

That was quick! Thanks, Mkdw. - Sitush (talk) 07:58, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

nikam

i agree with you but you only have posted the Ikshvaku Ancestry , and Nikam royal clan are the descendants of Ikshvaku Kondev (talk) 16:44, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

I am sorry but I do not understand your point. I don't think I have posted any ancestry as I'm not generally keen on the idea outside of, say, navigation boxes. If the Nikam are descendants of Ikshvaku then we need only say that, using a reliable source of course. As a general rule, these alleged ancestries are fallacious if only because their predecessors are mythological characters, so phrasing is everything. - Sitush (talk) 08:00, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

recent edit on gurjar

mr sitush please stop doing vandalism on gurjars. gurjars are pak 2nd largest ethnic group of pakistan

You are way past WP:3RR and I think you have also been notified of the sanctions regime in force for the topic area some time recently prior to your last edit there. You cannot use website forums as sources, as has been explained to you in the past. There may be decent sources out there - see the comments following your opening remark at User_talk:Kautilya3#Gurjars. You are fortunate not to have been blocked yet, which is primarily because I simply haven't got the energy to go through the request process. Reinstate that stuff again and I will find the energy from somewhere. - Sitush (talk) 08:17, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

agree please now dont remove pakistan section

Agree what? You have just added it again, by the looks of things. - Sitush (talk) 08:22, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

dont revert thisRaj Gujjar•talk

Naked Girl

Hey Sitush, hows your health?

Regarding the Nair article, there was a discussion here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nair/Archive_20#Why_not_use_a_better_image_.3F_I_have_suggestions where there was relative consensus in the discussion that the picture of the naked girl would be replaced. Your thoughts?Rabt man (talk) 02:21, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

It has been discussed several times and on every occasion that I recall it turns out that those seeking its removal were sockpuppets. - Sitush (talk) 02:23, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

"It appears we have consensus, then, to replace the current picture with #1 on the list above. JeeHuan, you're welcome to do the honors of uploading the picture. Let me know if you want me to handle it. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:30, 10 February 2013 (UTC) "

Wasn't it Qwyrxian that said it though? I am not able to find out about the JeeHuan guy cause he doesnt have any talk or user pages apparently, and the other guy is an ip. Rabt man (talk) 02:26, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Actually, it looks like that specific thread from 2013 involved three people - the original poster, Qwyrxian (now retired) and myself (can't recall why I was using an IP but it would have been declared somewhere at that time). There have been subsequent discussions that went the other way, ie: keep the image. Right now, I can't see anything wrong with it: it is a typical representation of dress at the time. - Sitush (talk) 02:27, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

One more point is that it was posted by KonndottySultan/Nair/Chekon who was also a sock that edited the page primarily for degradation as you yourself may have noticed. Rabt man (talk) 02:35, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

I vaguely remember that sock, yes. I don't think it makes any difference regarding the validity of the image. The argument has generally been along the lines of "it is wrong to show a part-naked Nair" versus WP:CENSORED. This all relates, ultimately, to contemporary issues such as the Upper Cloth Controversy. Do you think it is not a representative photograph? If so, why? - Sitush (talk) 03:20, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

I am actually going to investigate the image and find what I can know about it. Do you suggest any good image repositories?Rabt man (talk) 05:45, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Sorry but I don't know any other than the usual ones - Commons, Flickr etc. I've never been terribly interested in image work and tend to upload only when creating new articles and thus coming across something suitable while reading a source. - Sitush (talk) 05:48, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

"no, this is just fine"

Reverts with edit summaries like these indicate that you are editing on the premise that your version is superior to those of other editors. Did you even bother to read the source which I had corrected ? Sigmabaroda (talk) 05:13, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes. You have also made some poor removals at Kumar Vishwas. For someone who claims to be mostly interested in RSS-related topics here on Wikipedia, you are showing an amazing tendency to follow me around and to edit AAP-related stuff. - Sitush (talk) 05:32, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

You are harassing me by blindly reverting me, calling for WP:BRD and then refusing to participate in article talk page discussions. Such obstructive tactics clearly constitute harassment of the kind you appear to be notorious for. As far as Kumar Vishwas is concerned his RSS affiliation is well known [25]. Sigmabaroda (talk) 06:11, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

What have I blindly reverted, and what article have I gone to after you edited which wasn't already on my watchlist? The Slate article is bollocks, as any fule know, but you will know that I can say no more. The RSS line for Vishwas is interesting, if correct - why didn't you add it? Why didn't you spend all of 30 seconds fixing the dreadful phrasing at that article when you are clearly competent in the English language? (I will do this stuff when I've reverted you). Your initial edits were to the IIM Ahmedabad article, which was a favourite of the IAC socks who liked to rip out AAP-related articles and tended to follow me around also. - Sitush (talk) 06:21, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

I will detail your reverts separately. I don't know why you presume I should know anything about you or LTA/IAC beyond what a google search throws up. The LTA/IAC page doesn't say anything about AAP or ripping out. Do you know that there is very well known Sigma Institute of Management in Baroda (Vadodra) [www.sigma.ac.in] which is a top MBA college of Gujarat State with proper university affiliations which grants proper MBA degree unlike IIM's unrecognised certificates. 06:44, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I know of it. - Sitush (talk) 06:46, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. Of course it was changing regularly its name due to regulatory reasons after Supreme Court judgments which some IIM Ahmedabad alumni brought.06:50, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Usability of the site at the moment

Is anyone else experiencing problems with page load times at the moment. I'm finding that it has been increasingly slow over the last few days, regardless of which device and connection I use. In addition, I'm getting completely pissed off with the late loading of the 15th birthday banner, which I have repeatedly tried to dismiss, and the various other notifications (which are dismissed but load and then hide due to the JS). By the time they appears, seemingly at random, I've already made a click and that then gets interpreted as being a click on some list entry four or five lines away from my intended target. - Sitush (talk) 15:51, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Indeed, I have accidentally clicked the Rollback instead of the Thank button at least twice recently, due to that slow banner load. And I believe I am on the other side of the world from you... Scr★pIron^IV 16:01, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

A new start

I propose a pact. I will level / bulldoze some (a few) important articles on India which are poorly sourced or badly POV - and which I find especially offensive/unencyclopediac, and you can erect / correct / content create or whatever it is you do after that. You will notice that I am scrupulously avoiding Edit Warring with you, notwithstanding that my expertise on things Indian far exceeds your superficial and theoretical knowledge. Sigmabaroda (talk) 18:04, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Piss off. You are a block-evading troublemaker and I don't enter into "pacts with the devil". - Sitush (talk) 18:08, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

I have already informed you that I will not be provoked by your rude behaviour, and shall be ignoring such personal attacks. Sigmabaroda (talk) 18:25, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

So ignore. Responding is not ignoring. - Sitush (talk) 18:26, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

3 Opinion sought for Dhakar

I have asked for 3rd opinion for Dhakar. Sigmabaroda (talk) 18:22, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Yet more time-wasting by you, then. With any luck, you'll be blocked before someone turns up there. - Sitush (talk) 18:26, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

You seem to be unaware of WP:SCIRS (essay). "Preliminary results, whether reported in the popular press, a conference abstract, or a peer-reviewed journal, are a form of anecdote and generally fall below the minimum requirements of reliable science sources", ... "For example, ideas and results that have been reported only in conference proceedings or on a researcher's website are unlikely to be appropriate for inclusion except when reported as such in the author's biography." Sigmabaroda (talk) 18:32, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Why on earth are you telling me this? Even more, why are you telling me here. I don't want to see you on this talk page again: you are only here to destroy and to wind me up. - Sitush (talk) 18:37, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Fine, so please stay off my talk page too. Also don't revert my article space edits in future either directly or indirectly Sigmabaroda (talk) 18:45, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

You cannot stop me reverting any edits by you that are incompatible with our policies etc. Most of those I've seen thus far have been very poor, although I've not checked any articles that were not already on my watchlist. - Sitush (talk) 18:51, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Please stay focused

Good job doing "defensive blocking" for FPAS. If you have any integrity, then engage me here. (What the fuck do you want from me? My point was clear. Do I want or did I ask for "head" of FPAS? No. Of Drmies? No. Do I think profanity from ADMIN is totally unacceptable? Yes. [Do I think it is even de-sysoppable? Yes.]) So what is your beef? Please shut up if you have nothing intelligent (on-point) to say. Thx. IHTS (talk) 15:28, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

I'm waiting for your reply ... IHTS (talk) 15:32, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Go away. - Sitush (talk) 23:24, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Sourcing help

Do you think that an official Kerala government website would count as a source, especially if the citation for something in the books are mainly from snippet views? Rabt man (talk) 01:31, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

It would depend on what it is. For example, the government sites often basically reprint stuff like Thurston (although they tend not to say they have done). Obviously, they are often also politicised.

If you can only see a snippet view of a book and need more then you may get some help from the good folks at WP:RX. And if you are not in the UK then maybe I can help also because Google shows different results for the same thing in different parts of the world. - Sitush (talk) 01:45, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, ill let you know when I research.Rabt man (talk) 21:03, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Original Barnstar
		We've had our differences, and I have been mainly the reason for a lot stress for you. Despite this, I believe you have done your work in the best spirit for Wikipedia. You have also been a very good mentor to me. Thanks Rabt man (talk) 21:10, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, and no problem. There are three cultures at work here: yours, mine and Wikipedia's. It is not surprising that sometimes things can get a little confusing and, yes, even stressful. They're actually probably more confusing and stressful to someone who is new to this place than to someone in my position. - Sitush (talk) 00:47, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

kapu caste

Hey i saw your message. Looks like you have deleted the content completely there were citations and references mentioned for every single line i painstakingly added.... Could you please re-look at whatever i added and restore it and i am in the process of updating the page on a regular basis after all the uncensored edits on that page... And i will not add anything without a citation... you can sure of that... thank youPanel1 (talk) 04:31, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi Panel1. You can see my reasons for removing the stuff here. I did my best to break it down into small chunks so that they're easier to understand. Put simply, it isn't enough just to cite something - the something must be a reliable source and you must reflect what the source says rather than elaborate or misrepresent it. Hope this helps. - Sitush (talk) 04:34, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Hello Sitush, Got your message let me re-edit the content in that case and only state what was mentioned by those Historians in the citations without elaboration..but you have to give me time to finish up my edits since iam only a part time editor of this page so instead of undoing the edits/pages if you can leave me messages on my talk pages i will modify the content according to wikipedia guidelines...cause we iam not really an expert on being able decipher wiki guidelines...the article in its present state is really not worth it doesn't give any basic information about demographics origins or related communities there is a copy paste of sub-text from some a research paper of an author and thats what sums up the article would need your help in giving some relevance to this articlePanel1 (talk) 04:47, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

We should not leave poor material in articles for any length of time, although I am well aware that we do in fact have many poor articles. I am also aware that our policies and guidelines can be very confusing and even intimidating to new contributors. Things like caste origins and demographics tend to be very difficult to source reliably, although I think the Kapus are a sufficiently large community that modern academics will have taken an interest in them.

While I cannot stop you from editing the article directly, it might be less disruptive if you proposed your changes on the article talk page (Talk:Kapu (caste). I am sure that there are other people who monitor that article and if you are unsure of what you are doing then you may find it very disheartening if people turn up and remove stuff that you have added to the article. I'm afraid we don't always explain ourselves very well (me included), even though we should do.

Feel free to ask for any help. You may find WP:Citing sources to be a useful read. - Sitush (talk) 04:57, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

@Panel1: The article has a very long "Further reading" list with authentic sources. Your best bet would be to see what they say about the subject. If you are unable to get hold of any of those sources, please feel free to ask me by email (via my user page), and I will be happy to retrieve them for you. - Kautilya3 (talk) 10:17, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Yeah. I think that (or at least most of it) was a cite dump added by me. I've never got round to doing anything with it. Perhaps later today or tomorrow - I am on a bit of a roll fixing up Indic articles at the moment. (This doesn't stop you from doing anything, Panel1 - feel free.) - Sitush (talk) 12:13, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

10 years in the making

Hi, Sitush. Y'all have had 10-years since its inception to unstub the Beniwal article. What are y'all waiting for? Ping me back. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 09:27, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

@Checkingfax: expand it if you can. I see from my off-wiki crib sheet that I looked in the past and got nowhere. The chances are it needs to be deleted as I suspect even the single source that is there is a mere passing mention. - Sitush (talk) 14:17, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Bhadauria clan

Hi Sitush
Not sure why you self-reverted at Bhadauria clan as it still has no reliable sources - is there something I have missed or misunderstood? - Arjayay (talk) 13:56, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

The revert was a misclick on rollback. I self-reverted for that reason and since the re-addition of that crap content had only just happened I thought I'd better at least give them a chance. I had the vain hope that they might actually source it this time. I should know better!

I did leave the "we need sources" welcome template on their page, subtly amended. If it is still unsourced then that is long enough and we should revert again. - Sitush (talk) 14:17, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

OK - I'm up against 3RR at the moment - Arjayay (talk) 14:43, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

link

In regards to no other people expressing concern: [26]. Best always. — Ched :  ?  13:58, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Ah, well. I backed away from it all and missed that. It was bad enough that IHTS took it to FPaS's talk page while the ANI thread was open. I sure wasn't going to start tracking down every other page it had spread to. Happen I think they were trying to make a WP:POINT but it was hypocritical because their main argument, underneath the hyperbole, seemed to be that admins should be held to a higher standard and that, since they were not themselves an admin, that gave them some sort of free rein. - Sitush (talk) 14:02, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

I agree. And for what it's worth, I also agree that "troll" is one of the most offensive terms used on wiki. (especially when applied to established editors). I can only speak for myself - but past experience taught me that interaction and discussion with IHTS can be difficult. As I didn't have any horse in the race in regards to FPaS and TRM, I wasn't inclined to engage.

Anyway - hope all is well with you Sitush. Cheers. — Ched :  ?  14:08, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

I can't recall having any problems with IHTS before. I think everything here has just got incredibly fraught over the last 18 months or so, basically since Gamergate and the stuff that was going on about the gender gap, which kind of brought the civility issue right back into the headlines without achieving anything thus far other than extreme heat and a shedload of personalised antipathies that have spread far beyond en-WP itself.

I might go to the pub tonight where, I can assure all watchers, the women swear like the proverbial trooper and no-one takes offence. (Not that I can even get my hearing aids in to hear them at the moment but hey-ho.) - Sitush (talk) 14:53, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Just to clarify

I dont disagree at all with your evaluation of the current situation RE Civility, I just disagree that future actions should consider the potential fallout of shaking up the status quo. If a number of potty-mouthed incivil editors/admins get upset about it, they know where the door is. Granted I have been known to be short in the past sometimes, but I dont think I have ever crossed that line into being directly abusive toward people - if I have, I would expect to be sanctioned for it. My chief weapon is sarcsm. Sarcasm and irony... my two chief weapons... Only in death does duty end (talk) 13:50, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

But this is the "banned words" scenario. For example, Smallbones has made a habit of late of calling decent people trolls but I doubt many people would call that potty-mouthing; some words are potty-ish in one culture but not in another; and what is the difference between replying to someone with "You're an idiot" and "What you say is idiotic". The issue will not go away simply by drawing some sort of line. We'll just end up with yet more of the same arguing about another line.

I've never had much to do with FPaS. I vaguely recall that they've helped out with some long-term problems relating to socks etc on caste articles and presume that is the reason why their talk page remains on my watchlist to this day. I've no idea what they proclivities may be, nor of much of the background to the current, erm, shitstorm. I just see a bunch of people latching on to a single word when I suspect that the issues are really (a) long-term dislike/grudges and/or (b) a specific agenda relating to civility enforcement for which using FPaS is as good an opportunity as anything else. - Sitush (talk) 13:57, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Well there's abuse of admin tools too, but perhaps you're not aware of that. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:54, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

I specifically said [27] [28] that I was addressing only the civility angle because I hadn't followed all that was going on (and some of it was revdel'd anyway before I saw it, IIRC). At the time I wrote, it seemed to be that people were overegging the civility aspect, as the more vociferous such as IHTS seemed also to have done in the ANI report. I also specifically said that there might be other grounds than civility which justified taking on the case. - Sitush (talk) 21:57, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Yogendra Yadav

Oh, I didn't know you'd put it on WP:RFPP, that's why I didn't respond there, sorry. I just semi'd the article from watching it. A month may not be enough, but the previous protections are so piddling I didn't want to step it up too much at once. Pretty tendentious changes, aren't they! (PS, I hope you'll soon be able to hear the swearing women.) Bishonen | talk 10:54, 16 January 2016 (UTC).

No probs, Bish. I'm really not sure why the anons have been removing that stuff: it doesn't reflect badly on the subject etc. (I'd settle for hearing anybody at the moment! One of the side-effects of not being able to wear the aids is that my tinnitus comes to the fore, hence the weird hours that I have been editing of late.) - Sitush (talk) 11:02, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Next meetups in North-West England

Hello. This is just to let you know that the next wikimeets in North-West England will take place in:

• Manchester on 23rd January 2016
• Liverpool on 27th February 2016

Please sign up on the relevant wikimeet page if you can make them! Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:53, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

@Mike Peel: I see the central notices, Mike, thanks. There is no point in me attending and there hasn't been for some time - I can't hear a thing. - Sitush (talk) 19:57, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Ah, OK. Is there anything that can be done to help - a quieter venue or a hearing aid loop? I've taken you off the notification list at meta:Meetup/Manchester. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 20:01, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Not really, Mike, but thanks. I can't wear my hearing aids at all nowadays. The situation may change but I rather think it is chronic. There are vague suggestions of trying some sort of experimental intervention but I'm not holding my breath given the present economic climate in the NHS. - Sitush (talk) 20:12, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

• Go if you can. I strongly recommend. Just your presence will be helpful to maaany. I ave not attended a single seminar or conference in India where your work has not been discussed. --Tito Dutta (talk) 20:40, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

• Hm, that might be a case of being damned by faint praise, Tito. It isn't necessarily a good thing that people discuss me at seminars/conferences etc. Should I ever attend one in India I confidently predict that there will be a mass protest outside the venue and that - in a first for the country - it will involve an alliance of the youth wings of all the political parties. Given that I cannot hear a thing without my hearing aids, people would have to resort to, ahem, "discussing" me using sign language! Heh, I could be the one who unites India but I'd probably end up in jail or die in the process. - Sitush (talk) 21:17, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Your fame is well-deserved, Sitush! You have done an amazing amount of work on Wikipedia, and continue to do! - Kautilya3 (talk) 23:16, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it infamy! - Sitush (talk) 09:06, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

D'oh, Mathsci has pointed out that the above link should have been to Kenneth Williams. That shows how little TV I watch. - Sitush (talk) 17:48, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Your edit on Ahirs

Your edit on Ahirs describing them as a militant group is a blatant lie! Please revert this edit. Just because a book cite one incident it doesn't make whole community a militant group. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheTissot11 (talk • contribs) 13:05, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Nothing to do with me. I've never read that book. I suggest that you raise this on the article talk page where there is a much greater chance that a variety of people with interest in the topic will see your comment. - Sitush (talk) 13:16, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

List of Brahmins

I've semi'd List of Brahmins for 6 months — mind you, I thought your request for indef protection was reasonable, but that's really unusual these days, especially for a page that hasn't been protected at all before. I'll gladly protect other castelists that need it, if you'll tell me which they are. Bishonen | talk 15:21, 20 January 2016 (UTC).

Ok, thanks. There are quite a few troublesome ones and, like RegentsPark, I really wish we could just nuke them all because they're practically pointless. It is pretty rare that the caste of a person contributes in any way to their notability etc and they admit to that. Obviously, they're not going to be nuked because too many inclusionist types do not understand the issues (and repeatedly do not in some cases, as at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Samra today). I'll nudge you when I spot any others but, of course, the decision to act is up to you - if you disagree with me then that is fine. - Sitush (talk) 15:26, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Mmmm. Just to make you feel better (?), do you know what attracts if possible even more crap editing and socking by incompetent fanatics? Bollywood articles. I sometimes wonder why we bother to shovel all this dung, and I don't mean just on Indian articles, either. Maybe we should just rerout the rivers Alpheus and Peneus. Bishonen | talk 15:37, 20 January 2016 (UTC).

Oh, yes. Bollywood stuff is a nightmare of fancruft. Many music articles are the same, both within and without India. We've also got huge walled gardens in the yoga sphere. - Sitush (talk) 15:40, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Hey Bishonen, Tyagi is one for you. The list there has always been a problem but for some reason of late numerous different IPs have been attempting to add one particular redlinked person without a source. - Sitush (talk) 17:46, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

I think it may be the anniversary celebration of the last semiprotection. :-) Look at this — same guy, right? That bout ended with Favonian protecting for a month. OK, I'm making it three months this time. Bishonen | talk 19:46, 20 January 2016 (UTC).

Conflict of interest edit

Hi, I see you reverted my edit on Raheja Developers for conflict of interest. I understand and appreciate your efforts. From now onwards, I'll go through talk page to make any changes on this page. Can you please look through my last edit and restore the content which meets WP:NPOV? I see the page in present stage has lots of incomplete information with biased point of view. Many of the references (specifically mentioning Qubrex and Gurgaon Scoop does not meet WP:RS. Also the page suffers from WP:OVERCITE in some instances. I tried to add information such as awards which were properly cited as well. Please have a look into that as well. Mr RD 16:25, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi Sitush, Your response will be highly appreciated. Thank you, Mr RD 05:36, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

I think the article needs more eyes on it. It isn't right now and I'm still a bit concerned that your version was tending too much in the other direction. There have been a lot of attempts to whitewash the thing in the past and equally a lot of attempts to make the company look bad.

I know you have declared that you are being paid and that you've done the same for some other articles but the coincidence of "Rahelja Developers" and the initials of your username make me particularly uncomfortable for reasons that I can't explain. I'll drop a note at WP:COIN. - Sitush (talk) 06:24, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Nadar article

Hi Sitush. How are you? Long time. Hope you are doing well. I would be obliged if you recommend an admin who could review the Nadar caste article. I will cooperate with this admin and once thats over, I would like to leave wiki. The article is nowadays frequently attacked by socks. And I am just tired of doing this boring work again and again. I dont know how you do it. Anyway. Thank you for your time.Mayan302 (talk) 06:33, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay in responding - I've been thinking about this issue. It isn't specifically the role of an admin to get involved in content matters and if they do so then they cannot act in an administrative capacity. So, I'm unsure what you expect to gain from that angle unless your intention is to get some help regarding the socks that you claim are present. The usual place to go when you know socks are messing about is WP:SPI, not an specific named admin.

I've deliberately not looked at that article in detail for some time because it frustrates me. Given what I do here, and given how long I've been doing it, the very fact that I say this should perhaps ring some alarm bells. There is only one other set of caste articles where this applies and that is those relating to the Kayasthas. In both cases, I'm not comfortable with the content but there are people involved who seem to edit little else and to exhibit a vested interest either in a positive sense or in an antagonistic sense. It worries me and it should worry the project more generally: I'm not exactly known for being a shrinking violet, so if I tend to keep away then it probably is not a good sign.

All this said, you don't have to pack it in. Just find something else to edit for a while. You'll find that it gives you a better sense of perspective. - Sitush (talk) 07:03, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

I would love to edit other articles. But I am at the moment in the middle of so many things. I am not quiting wiki. I just need to be away from all this for sometime. I ran out of refs and was never able to complete the article. I tried my best though. I am looking for a neutral editor who can hopefully complete the article. The history of the Nadars can be pretty confusing(there are so many sub castes etc). If you know of any editor who may be interested to expand the article, please let me know. Thank you for your time.Mayan302 (talk) 13:03, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

The line about kalaripayattu was I think actually included by you. It was a long time ago and since I didnt have any knowledge about that topic, I just allowed it to stay. Just thought you should know. TC. Cya. Mayan302 (talk) 10:20, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

YGM

Hello, Sitush. Please check your email – you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{YGM}} template.

I am sorry to learn of your recent health issues, I wish you a complete and speedy recovery. Regards, Yamaguchi先生 (talk) 21:00, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Makhdoom (clan)

Hi Sitush, I wonder whether the passages you removed from Makhdoom (clan) should not stay per WP:PRESERVE. The story appeared plausible to me and there was nothing essentially wrong with the text except being unsourced, so cn tags should be sufficient in my view. Regards, — kashmiri ^TALK 10:56, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

I've tried to fix it. I can't. Nor seemingly could anyone else over the years. It really should go to AfD because we don't do "plausible". - Sitush (talk) 11:07, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

It's not a page, it's 11 words. A list of clans may replace all such not-yet-an-articles.Xx236 (talk) 11:27, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

WP:NLIST and WP:V. Look, we've gone past the "let's get the ball rolling" stage of Wikipedia, when it was ok to copy/paste from the 1911 Britannica etc and have more redlinks than blue links etc. We've got to get a grip on this crap. - Sitush (talk) 11:30, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Nayak Sp

Hey Brother . As a I belong to the Khandayat community . I have bit specific knowledge about it . Actually as a beginner , I did not have knowledge about third party reliable sources . But it is not briefly described about the community here . Hence please research about it , else tell me what kind of reliable source wiki needs Nayak sp (talk) 14:09, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Please see the welcome message posted on your talk page, especially the "Five pillars" articles. - Kautilya3 (talk) 16:11, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Forward/Backward

Even though the incessant pleas on the caste articles are tiresome, I am also sympathetic to what they say. It is terribly disparaging to be called a "backward caste." Whereas the North Indians care a lot about varna status, the South Indians care a lot about the forward/backward caste distinction. So, we need to find a happy medium. Do you have sources that explain what was meant by forward/backward in the 1921 census? Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 01:49, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Not off the top of my head. I do know that this entire thing is a mess and that what the Brits thought sometimes differs massively from the present-day system. I would have to dig around for info. The best I can offer right now is a simple statement that avoids original research/synthesis etc. This is that, assuming their cite of the OBC list is accurate (I haven't checked), we add a sentence saying something like As of 2016, the X are not categorised as OBC by the Government of Y. - Sitush (talk) 01:54, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

That is not exactly an honourable statement either. How about it if we delete the 1921 stuff from the Kapu (caste) article? It is dated information and not particularly important. - Kautilya3 (talk) 02:43, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

We are not here to be honourable, merely informative. If my proposed sentence was tagged on to the end of the 1921 stuff then I think it would balance things. Assuming they are correct, I would have thought it reasonably significant that they were once considered some sort of backward community but are so no longer; for example, either the Brits were wrong, the criteria have changed or the community has improved its status.

Aren't most of the population to be found in OBC or SC/ST lists? If it is disparaging then most of the country must be unhappy, and that would usually mean riots/protests etc when in fact even more groups are trying to get themselves thus categorised. I will try to do some reading today. - Sitush (talk) 09:01, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

@Kautilya3: I'm sorry but I've had a bit of a rough day health-wise and haven't got round to reading up on the issue yet - too many painkillers. What does jar is the fact that we allow caste articles to include statements about their martial race status during the Raj era but there are repeated attempts to remove any Raj designations that are considered to lack honour etc. We can't have it both ways. - Sitush (talk) 19:46, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Well, the Raj era terminology of forward/backward wasn't great. The equivalents in the west for backward classes are terms like "disadvantaged backgrounds," "underprivileged classes" etc. It is a pity that the Indian government hasn't engaged in such linguistic innovations, but we need to figure out how to soften the terminology so that it isn't offending. Some scholars put `backward castes' in quote marks so that it doesn't appear as standard terminology.

The reactions that we are getting are broadly similar to what the Brits got when they started doing caste census. We shouldn't make the same mistakes that they made then.

I think it is naive to say that we merely provide information. This is the information age. Everybody with a phone does google searches, and we show up on top. We shouldn't underestimate our power. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 20:26, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Yet people are happy to see martial race in the relevant articles. It is double-standards, sorry. - Sitush (talk) 20:30, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Well, it is human nature. Besides, the martial races and the backward castes are quite disjoint, I would think. So it isn't the same people.

You might have noticed somebody delete my mention of Kammas as Kapus of Kammanadu. It apparently runs against the Kamma mythology. That is the kind of stuff that I would really fight about. - Kautilya3 (talk) 20:44, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Mircea Itul

Good morning, Sir. Please help Mircea Itul. He is not an Indian. He is not an Indologist worldwide recognised, but he is a famous Indologist in his country, who has been doing a lot to promote Indian culture in his country and internationally. Please see the last wall text Itul as Indologist on the talk page Mircea Itul. Itul was given awards by three different Indian Ambassadors in Romania and one of his books called Itinerarii indiene (Indian Journeys) was launched by Indian Ambassador, His Excellency Rajiv Dogra, at the National Book Fair in Bucharest, 2000. I ask Project India to support Itul's page not to be deleted. Thank you. user:clairec78 —Preceding undated comment added 06:16, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Hi, Claire. I'm afraid Sitush isn't available right now; he's unwell. Bishonen | talk 09:42, 28 January 2016 (UTC).

Hi. I wish you well and to recover soon. You are loved and appreciated by everyone. Thank you BishonenClairec78 (talk) 10:10, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Paraiyar Article

Hereby I acknowledge that the article about "Paraiyar", a community of South india is a sensitive information.Some Users are potraying the community as slaves.Mentioning of "Slave" or Using any defamatory words against any community or particular section is an punishable offence.There may be a chance for particular section of people were treated as slaves,but mentioning a community as slaves is unconstituional since slavery is abolished by the constitution of India.Degrading a community status is a punishable offence under India law (Promoting enmity between different classes and endangering Integrity of India.Some times some truths cannot be exposed in public.(India was once a slave nation to british,for this single reason India cannot be introduced as former slave of british).I Hope all the admins can understand well.I welcome more research and discussions about the article.I am not against removing unreliable information(without sources).But I am against discrimination in the name of religion,caste,culture,language.I Hope wikipedia will protect the true spirit of knowledge and human freedom. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RajaRajan Tamilian (talk • contribs) 19:34, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

The article talk talk page is the place for this, although you need to be wary of WP:NLT also. - Sitush (talk) 00:31, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

A Dobos torte for you!

7&6=thirteen (☎) has given you a Dobos torte to enjoy! Seven layers of fun because you deserve it. To give a Dobos torte and spread the WikiLove, just place {{subst:Dobos Torte}} on someone else's talkpage, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend.

7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:12, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

I am not sure what I've done that justifies this but, yay, a new delicacy for me to investigate. Thanks very much. - Sitush (talk) 00:42, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

You've got mail!

Hello, Sitush. Please check your email; you've got mail!
Message added 11:34, 2 February 2016 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Tito Dutta (talk) 11:34, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Sorted, I think? - Sitush (talk) 00:42, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Talkback message from Tito Dutta

Hello, Sitush. You have new messages at Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics#Planning_a_few_initiatives.
Message added 23:17, 17 February 2016 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Tito Dutta (talk) 23:17, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Talkback message from Tito Dutta

Hello, Sitush. You have new messages at Titodutta's talk page.
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Tito Dutta (talk) 17:51, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

2016 March Indian Collaboration of the Months

Hello,

We are happy to inform you that WikiProject Indian Collaborations of the month is going to be restarted this month and we want your active support here.

1. Please nominate an article or vote other nominations here. The process will continue till 10 March.
2. Should we introduce prizes for the best participants? If so, what should be the criteria, and what prizes should we give? Share your views here.

--MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:19, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Sitush get well soon. sincere wishes for a quick recovery

Sitush get well soon. For sleeping well please add a teaspoon of turmeric in a glass of milk before bed time and consume it. Its helpful in sleeping. My sincere wishes for a quick recovery. take care Sangitha rani111 (talk)Sangitha rani111

(talk page stalker) I must try that. You mean a glass of hot milk? I join you in wishing Sitush a speedy recovery. Bishonen | talk 23:30, 9 February 2016 (UTC).

Hot milk; you probably want to put something else in to mask the taste if you're not used to it, as to the western palate turmeric usually tastes disgustingly bitter. Turmeric's a very strong antiinflammatory, and the milk stops it irritating your stomach lining on the way down. Wikipedia has an article on the active ingredient, but it's incomprehensible even by WP:MED standards. (In all honesty, you could probably get the same benefits with as aspirin washed down with milk, if you don't have turmeric to hand.) ‑ Iridescent 23:43, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

This being Wikipedia, I should probably add a "clinical effects unproven" disclaimer, mainly down to nobody having bothered to conduct a clinical trial on something that's extremely cheap and totally unpatentable, but I don't believe the basic effects are in serious doubt. Some of the more fantastical claims regarding it curing arthritis and cancer, take with an extreme pinch of salt. ‑ Iridescent 23:47, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Correction: "something that's extremely cheap and totally unpalatable" :). --regentspark (comment) 14:10, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

• Thank you, Iridescent. I like turmeric, I use it for flavouring rice all the time, but turmeric in hot milk does sound… unfamiliar. I'll mix it up with a little honey, perhaps. (And a pinch of salt. :-)) So, I suppose the rice I eat most days is antiinflammatory, then? Good stuff. Bishonen | talk 18:06, 10 February 2016 (UTC).

• All my very best thoughts and wishes. Get well soon. — Ched :  ?  18:20, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

My thanks to al of you. My concentration isn't good at the moment and so I may be more or less absent for some time to come. If I have got this right, I need hot milk, turmeric and a bucket of salt? Perhaps a smidgeon of honey? Beer sounds better but, alas, I'm not allowed that and at my age I'm afraid that, while it might aid getting to sleep, it can cause many interruptions during the sleep period unless I fancy a wet mattress! I like turmeric, btw, and also other common spices of the region, such as cumin. I've recently discovered mango powder while making veggie samosas - waaaaaay better than lemon juice for that sharp edge. - Sitush (talk) 00:38, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Nice to see you anyway — and in such a fine spot, too! — hope the recovery is progressing. You'll remove the edit notice when it's no longer needed, won't you? Or maybe keep it, lol — I'm considering putting some similar admonishment on my own page. "Please don't post on this page unless you bring flowers and chocolates, Bishonen isn't in the mood for anything else." Bishonen | talk 15:25, 13 February 2016 (UTC).

Sitush, all the best for spicy recovery. Bishonen: thanks for that notice. The other day, I put "heartache" with flowers on top of my talk, but received an edit war. Will put it back now, for the funeral day today until the next, next week. Only songs, please, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gerda Arendt (talk • contribs)

• Good to see your name pop up on my watchlist, Sitush. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:03, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	Thanks for your support! I'm back but won't be editing that much. Let me know if you need help. SH 14:04, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Request for having a look at an article.

Please look at the List of people from Punjab, India. This is an embarrassment for any encyclopedia. Let alone being born and brought up in the Punjab (India), many of those people who might have hardly visited there, are listed in that article. If one day your health improves, which I hope it does, then please sort that article out because only a person of your authority can do that. If mortals like me will try that then they will get sacrificed in the edit warring in no time!-NitinMlk (talk) 16:51, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Topic bans

You're used to patiently explaining the same thing ten times over, but I don't do that — especially when it's only a month-long ban. So I blocked our friend for 24 hours. Let's hope that tells him something. I guess he doesn't read stuff. It's quite interesting to see him complaining about "Bishonen's casteist edits", for instance, considering that I have never edited a caste article… Bishonen | talk 21:14, 20 March 2016 (UTC).

Sujit Meher

--Mohit852130 (talk) 13:41, 21 March 2016 (UTC)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sujit_Meher

clean up required . Please . --Mohit852130 (talk) 13:41, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Info was with reference. Why u reverted?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Reply Truth should trump (talk) 18:37, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Others have also been reverting you. See the article talk page and WP:NPOV. It's fine to add sourced material but not to remove other validly sourced material just to project your favoured interpretation etc. You are going to have to discuss the changes. - Sitush (talk) 18:40, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

I have given reference and old edit was had offensive content Truth should trump (talk) 18:40, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Its not valid source please go through it.others reverts were bots. Truth should trump (talk) 18:41, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Offensive against my caste in my caste page(how can I tolerate) Truth should trump (talk) 18:41, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Not a single reference is valid. Truth should trump (talk) 18:42, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Please revert it my reference is valid.. Truth should trump (talk) 18:44, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

I am new to wiki I don't know how to revert Truth should trump (talk) 18:44, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

So discuss it at Talk:Goud Saraswat Brahmin. I'll give you a couple of tips first, though - read WP:CENSORED, WP:COI and note that - odd though it may seem - virtually every time someone with "Truth" in their name edits a caste article they are determined to be wrong. You may be different in this last regard, of course, but you'll definitely need to change your approach: you don't get to have things your way just because you think it is right and are a member of the caste. In fact, caste members are often the worst people to edit such articles. - Sitush (talk) 18:45, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Other caste members who don't like our caste are obviously worst rite?? Truth should trump (talk) 18:47, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

I have given valid reference please go through it. Truth should trump (talk) 18:47, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Nigoyakars reference was fake. Truth should trump (talk) 18:48, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

That reference is not showing any such statements but he mentioned. Truth should trump (talk) 18:49, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Believe me, I am very experienced in editing caste articles on Wikipedia and I'm not a member of any caste, nor even Indian. Have you even bothered to look at Talk:Goud_Saraswat_Brahmin#Non-English_sources ? - Sitush (talk) 18:52, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Google gaud saraswat brahmins you will find truth....Some other guys don't like us make story and place in wiki how to oppose that?how to ask reference?. Now my statements were perfect with ref but u reverted without watching ref!!!! Truth should trump (talk) 18:54, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Anyhow OK you didn't understood what was the matter then NP but do revert it,...This indirectly contains offensive element Truth should trump (talk) 18:56, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

FLC for List of Padma Bhushan award recipients (1960–69)

Hi! I have nominated the subject list for FL. Although its not your forte, could you and your talk page stalkers find some time out and give your comments here? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 07:40, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm not intending to be around much, Dharmadhyaksha, sorry. Not very well at the moment. - Sitush (talk) 15:57, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

No rush.... The FLCs are usually active for months. Get well soon and then check out. The list anyways doesn't have much prose. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 03:58, 23 March 2016 (UTC)