User talk:Hyacinth/May 9 2013 - February 14 2014

Speedy deletion nomination of Virus riddim

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A tag has been placed on Virus riddim requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A9 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a musical recording which does not indicate why its subject is important or significant, and where the artist's article has never existed, has been deleted or is eligible for deletion itself. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for music.

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Fifths

A one-octave C major scale.

File:C Major scale stacked with perfect-fifth intervals

The C major scale stacked with perfect fifths.

Stacking the C-major scale with thirds creates a chord progression , traditionally enumerated with the Roman numerals I, ii, iii, IV, V7, vi, vii^o.
Its major-key sub-progression C-F-G7 (I-IV-V7) is conventional in popular music, as is the C-F-G (I-IV-V) progression in which the V chord is the G major triad. The dominant seventh (V7) chord G7=(G,B,D,F) is discussed in the next subsection.
In this progression, the "secondary" (minor) triads ii-iii-vi appear in the relative minor key (Am)'s corresponding chord progression.

Hyacinth spoils Kiefer.Wolfowitz! Thanks!

Dear Hyacinth,

Your upgraded NST diagram's arrows are a great idea. Such arrows would improve the diagrams in the other regular tunings, particularly all fourths and all fifths tunings....

Resolved

18:53, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

On another topic: Would you prepare a diagram of fifths stacked on the C major scale (consistent with your diagram for triad progressions)?

Do you know of any RS that begins with fifths on C major and then introduces the thirds? Especially one that discusses the triads satisfying constraints, e.g. that the notes should be natural (and the 7th degree's fifth should not agree with the C major chord's fifth, i.e., G, and so it is diminished). I am trying to understand how one would invent the displayed progression of triads....

Do you know of a RS that begins with the C-major scale and then states that other major scales use the same sequence of whole- and half-steps? (Or that a historical account, like a "history of Western music for composers, theorists, and other miserable sods"?)

FYI, I added some discussion of Fripp's disdain of thirds to the NST article, and brief comments about his use of fifths, octaves, and fourths for chords. Do you know of any discussions of building chords by stacking fifths? (Dr. Blofeld showed me this video of a discussion of jazz chords stacked in fourths; Bill Evans is famous for stacking fourths, I understand.)

As always, thanks for your help.

Best regards, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:40, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your contributions to quartal and quintal harmony, which is a serious and informative article, if not yet GA status. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:46, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Forget about the above request for stacked fifths as a png diagram. I can do a diagram in GNU Lilypond. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:11, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Alfie Fripp (RIP): DYK nomination

Robert Fripp's late Uncle, Alfie Fripp, was the longest serving and last surviving British POW of WWII. He helped the construction of the tunnel "Harry" portrayed in The Great Escape.

Please help improve the article Alfie Fripp before it appears on the main page.

Thanks! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:58, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Urlinie.PNG)

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WP:BRD

If your bold edit gets reverted, with explanation in edit summary, as at Missing fundamental, a better next step than an uncommented UNDO is to discuss to contribution and its reason for rejection, at the article talk page. Dicklyon (talk) 22:52, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Musicology problem

Something got mangled in Musicology, as the very first sentence will attest.

It looks like it was introduced here

A reader wrote in to note this oddity. I'm picking on you as the largest single contributor to the article.

I see it is already noted on the talk page.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 12:04, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

It looks like it is not just a Musicology problem, as it also appears elsewhere.

See Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Rendered_text_not_matching_wikitext_.28water_is_never_pure....29--SPhilbrick(Talk) 12:15, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Never mind, they already fixed it. --82.83.89.164 (talk) 12:26, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Guitar chord

Today, I expanded the treatment of intermediate chords. I don't have time to clean up the notation and achieve consistency with other articles today, but you have been known to work miracles quickly.... :)

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:03, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Computer-mediated reality

The article Computer-mediated reality has been proposed for deletion. The proposed deletion notice added to the article should explain why.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. -- Trevj (talk) 08:45, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Please note that the PROD wasn't placed by me; I'm just notifying you because after a quick search I don't know whether it's valid or not. -- Trevj (talk) 08:45, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

I removed it. It didn't have a reason. The article seemed to have reliable sources. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:40, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Banjo roll

Dear Hyacynth: Thank you so much for your well-researched article about the banjo roll. I have been putting together a list of bluegrass related articles at User:Anne Delong/Bluegrass Topics because I noticed that many of them need a lot of work. Over half of the ones I found have no references at all! I'm afraid that someone will delete them. Yours, however, is great. It's never been rated, though. I think that's because we don't have a Wikiproject for bluegrass music. If I can get organized enough, I might start one. —Anne Delong (talk) 08:41, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

File:Ten octaves visualization.png

It goes to 2¹⁰, not 2¹¹. And shouldn't the top right box have the dotted line where the preceding box was doubled? PrimeHunter (talk) 14:09, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Passive voice listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Wikipedia:Passive voice. Since you had some involvement with the Wikipedia:Passive voice redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). Ego White Tray (talk) 13:47, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

SVG of the sheet music

First of all, thank you for making those amazing sheet musics like the ones on A Hard Day's Night (song). However, as Wikimedia Commons pointed out here, those sheet musics should better be in SVG format. As the information on the file pages shows, you were using Sibelius 5 to make these pictures. If the software supports outputting SVG, PS (PostScript), or EPS (Encapsulated PostScript), please use these vector images and convert them to SVG (if needed). If the software does not support them, then you can try Lilypond. I am currently trying to convert the PNGs to SVGs as many as I can, but please, if you are making any more sheet musics, upload them as SVG. Timothy G. ^{from CA} (talk) 20:05, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

It looks like one may export images from Sibelius as EPS files. How would I convert it to SVG? Hyacinth (talk) 23:00, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

You can use the online tool misc2svg. It's a German site, but you don't need to read German to use the tool :) (the number on the site is page number). Timothy G. ^{from CA} (talk) 02:49, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

And, upload other SVGs if you can for "images composed of simple shapes, lines, and letters" like File:Ten octaves visualization.png (see here). You can use Inkscape (warning: hard to learn) and Adobe Illustrator (warning: harder to learn, and requires $$$) to create SVGs. Timothy G. ^{from CA} (talk) 02:56, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi, again. Thank you for uploading File:15-tet diatonic scale on C.svg to Wikimedia Commons. Please remember to crop the borders of the file (using SVG editing software or directly using Sibelius if it has an option) before uploading, and you do not need to upload the PNG version. Thank you. Timothy G. ^{from CA} (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:12, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

File:15-tet diatonic scale on C.png --> File:15-tet diatonic scale on C.svg

File:Dual-third triad diamond.png --> File:Dual-third triad diamond.svg

Hyacinth (talk) 03:42, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Low quality SVG

Hello. When you upload SVGs, please crop the margins. For example: old -> new. Timothy G. ^{from CA} (talk) 19:12, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

File:Dual-third triad diamond.svg doesn't display at all. Hyacinth (talk) 10:10, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

License tagging for File:Dual-third triad diamond.svg

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Disambiguation link notification for March 14

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Native American merge

The music merge discussion on the category was to merge "American Indian music" into "Native American music," not the other way around. Montanabw^(talk) 20:58, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Came here to point this out. I don't believe anyone wanted "Native American music" to redirect to "American Indian music." -Uyvsdi (talk) 01:31, 29 March 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi

By "everyone" we are talking about four people. Hyacinth (talk) 21:30, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

So, do you all want me to do something or are you just being informative? Hyacinth (talk) 10:29, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Stop changing categories from Native American to American Indian, you messed up a bunch of them. ;-) Montanabw^(talk) 00:37, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Does a winky smile mean please? Or is it the same as a reason? Hyacinth (talk) 15:23, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

It means that you need to not do what you are being asked to not do, but I'm asking in a nice way. As it appears that you have done so, thank you. Montanabw^(talk) 19:44, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

It turns out our original message was neither a question nor informative.

Since no one could hear your tone of voice, there's no way anyone would know if what you said was nice or rude. Conventionally demands without please and thank you are considered rude.

Moving is not messing up.

However, I'll give you some credit since your from a backwoods state. Hyacinth (talk) 22:54, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

OK, I'm done talking to you. Your last comment was quite rude. You have no interest in engaging in good faith conversation, it appears. I have better things to do with my time than argue with trolls. Montanabw^(talk) 17:59, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Hyacinth is not a troll, but he writes epigrammatically and sometimes with top spin.

Consider: Not everybody likes mole poblano or chile masala, and those that do probably acquired their taste. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:50, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

One "mistake" does not a troll make. Just cause I don't have "Montana" in my name doesn't mean I don't live there. Hyacinth (talk) 21:20, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Less "nots", you two, please! ;)

And more knots, please. :)

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 22:54, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I did not begin this by stating that Hyacinth was from a "backwoods state" and insulting his or her intelligence. All I asked was that s/he cease changing a bunch of categories when the category move request was specifically NOT to. And I was trying to be nice about it. I did not expect rudeness, disrespect, or whatever "epigrammatically and sometimes with top spin" is. Montanabw^(talk) 23:59, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

If you're done talking to me please message Kiefer on Kiefer's talk page. I find it strange that I knew more about you before you wrote to me than you still know about me. Hyacinth (talk) 00:29, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Your second statement is an odd comment, and I also don't really care what you think you know, though WP:OUTING may apply if you are making a threat of some sort. Kiefer weighted in here, so I replied here. If this conversation is over from your end, it's over from mine. Kiefer can comment where he pleases and I shall reply to him as appropriate; should you ask us both to take conversation elsewhere, I will respect that. Otherwise, my standard policy is to reply on the page where the comment occurs, absent some more compelling rationale. Montanabw^(talk) 16:28, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

It's like cigarettes, everyone says they are going to quit, but... Hyacinth (talk) 21:25, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

All your great work on the knotting articles

Hello Hyacinth: Thank you for your recent and ongoing work on many of the knot articles! I haven't been doing as much on the topic as I did a few years ago. Many of the cleanups you've been taking care of were things I'd intended to do but never found the time, energy, etc. (Thus fulfilling the promise of WP...) So far it looks like you're doing great work. If you have any questions or would like a second opinion on something, feel free to drop me a note. All the best, --Dfred (talk) 14:35, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

great work!

This is a nice set of notes:

• Dominic Welsh. Complexity: Knots, Colourings and Counting (LMS Lecture Notes, vol. 186, Oxford University Press, 1993, ISBN 0-521-45740-8, MR1245272)

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 22:56, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Hyacinth (talk) 23:06, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 31

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Semiotics of Billy Bragg

Young Billy Bragg wore your symbols for tritone intervals and augmented triads in the chromatic circle. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 06:19, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 9

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File:Monteverdi Lamento d'Arianna dominant seventh.png missing description details

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Unicursal hexagram

I really don't know what a unicursal hexagram has in common with a closed-loop composite granny knot or square knot. If the unicursal hexagram is interlaced, it's a prime (non-composite) knot equivalent to the simplest form of the "Endless knot" (7_4). If a unicursal hexagram is not interlaced, then it has nothing to do with knot theory at all. AnonMoos (talk) 14:14, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Good thing I didn't link to "knot theory" or categorize "Unicursal hexagram" in Category:Knot theory. Hyacinth (talk) 16:11, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

File:Granny knot as unicursal hexagram.png

That's interesting, but is it something actually used by occultists, or something you just made up? Not sure why File:Fano_plane_Hasse_diagram.svg and File:Granny_knot_as_unicursal_hexagram.png are on the article, but File:Interwoven unicursal hexagram.svg isn't, when File:Interwoven unicursal hexagram.svg would appear to have a lot more to do with the occult symbol as used by occultists (which is what the article is mainly supposed to be about). AnonMoos (talk) 17:28, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

See: Commons:Category:Unicursal hexagram. Hyacinth (talk) 17:58, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

I looked at that category, and the image which you just uploaded is the only one which unequivocally implies a "false crossing" (no crossing at all, leading to 6 overall crossings not 7) in the center... AnonMoos (talk) 00:38, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

What does a "false crossing" have to do with File:Fano_plane_Hasse_diagram.svg or File:Interwoven unicursal hexagram.svg? Hyacinth (talk) 01:41, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

First off, I don't know what File:Fano_plane_Hasse_diagram.svg has to do with anything. But if you look at the basic diagram File:Solid_unicursal_hexagram.svg, it looks like there are seven places where lines cross each other. However, in File:Granny knot as unicursal hexagram.png, you've sneakily rejiggered the configuration so that there are only six true line crossings. It's rather clever in its way, but I'm not entirely sure whether it has much relevance to the commonly-used meaning of "unicursal hexagram"... AnonMoos (talk) 03:35, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Non-Western music listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Non-Western music. Since you had some involvement with the Non-Western music redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 22:38, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

What don't you like

Further information: Commons:User_talk:AnonMoos § Why_I_do_things

I'm sure that a distinct majority of your edits contribute to overall improvement, but you keep things constantly churning so that it's not too easy to keep track of the effects of your edits on images that I've uploaded, or articles I have on my watchlist. And when issues do sometimes arise, you don't seem to be too quick to explain yourself (so I still have no idea if the false crossing image File:Granny knot as unicursal hexagram.png is based on something which previously existed, or is something that you invented from scratch). By the way, while image "overcategorizations" are generally a bad thing on Wikimedia Commons, in particular cases they may be an indication of problems in superordinate categories (as with interlaced and non-interlaced triquetras), so that it would be good to keep this possibility in mind. AnonMoos (talk) 05:13, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Something to show you

I have produced 2 short pieces, a study in 7 tone equal temperament and a "cool jazz" type tune in 5 equal temperament. I would love for you to hear them as they are only possible because of your initial influence. I know the phrasing on the 5-edo song is a bit awkward, but I may try to improve it later. Any feedback would be priceless. Thank you.

http://solandra.wikispaces.com/file/view/7thumar21.mid/424742126/7thumar21.mid http://solandra.wikispaces.com/file/view/5edo-cool-01.mid/424742090/5edo-cool-01.mid

I used the standard Timidity++ soundfont to compose and the files are CC-BY-SA 3.0 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Senobyte (talk • contribs) 21:52, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Gender-neutral language

Please go to Wikipedia talk:Gender-neutral language. It looks like some Wikipedians support gender-generic he. Please reveal your thoughts on that talk page. (Also, please note that User:Ihardlythinkso is an un-civil Wikipedian who pretends to be civil.) Georgia guy (talk) 13:22, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Go to Antichess (as well as any other article that you can find use of generic he in) and please try to re-word the phrases whatever way you can. Georgia guy (talk) 16:33, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Adele Someone Like You appoggiatura.mid)

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Orphaned non-free media (File:Adele Someone Like You appoggiatura.png)

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Tertian harmonization

I'm sure you could improve this! :)

Sevenths chords are constructed by stacking third intervals on the C major scale. Fretboard diagrams for major-thirds tuning are shown.

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:49, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Failed verification on Slavik V. Jablan

First off, you added the tag in the wrong place. Secondly, the middle link in image "bor8.jpg" on page http://www.mi.sanu.ac.rs/vismath/bor/bor4.htm is obviously the same as the depiction of L10a140 derived from the Knot Atlas "Morse Link Presentation" (with trivial differences of rotation and orientation). I think we're allowed to connect the dots to this minimal degree; if we're not, then the problem becomes a taint of original synthesis, not "failed verification"... AnonMoos (talk) 01:28, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Generic template you left on my user talk page

You didn't include any specific information, so I don't know what action of mine you're objecting to. Since the big orange box has been replaced with the the little red speck in the past few days, I may not be as quick to notice comments left on my user talk page... AnonMoos (talk) 02:41, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Discussion on Ashkenazi Jews talk page - should Sholem Aleichem be in the collage

Hi :-) Due to the fact I saw you interested in the topic, I thought you might want to take part in it.

There is a discussion on the Talk:Ashkenazi Jews regarding should Sholem Aleichem and Mikhail Botvinnik be in the collage or not. The discussion is called "Ones and for all, should Sholem Aleichem and Mikhail Botvinnik be in the collage".

Please take part in the vote and state your opinion on the topic. Thank you! 90.196.60.197 (talk) 15:52, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Fully amphichiral knot

A tag has been placed on Fully amphichiral knot, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a redirect to a nonexistent page, or a redirect loop.

If you can fix this redirect to point to an existing Wikipedia page, please do so and remove the speedy deletion tag. However, please do not remove the speedy deletion tag unless you also fix the redirect. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. - Camyoung54 ^talk 02:10, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Knot number categories

Your knot number categories are content categories, not maintenance categories, and are not supposed to be hidden. {{Wikipedia category|hidden=yes}} is only for hidden maintenance categories, such as Category:Category needed or Category:Articles to be merged, and is not added to categories that are meant for regular browsing of content. Bearcat (talk) 05:22, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Bartok - Music mov. I fugue subject chromatic.mid)

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Orphaned non-free media (File:Bartok - Music mov. I fugue subject diatonic.mid)

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Categorizing scale degrees

I see you categorized scale degrees. One thing I don't like is that you categorized the Mixolydian mode's subtonic as 7 and the leading tone as 7.5. This is perceived by my mind as meaning that you think the subtonic (B♭) is the real 7th degree and that the leading tone (B) is an extra degree and can be called 7.5. Any questions?? Georgia guy (talk) 13:03, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Do you have any questions? Are you asking me to do something? Are you trying to tell me about something you yourself did? Hyacinth (talk) 23:42, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Error in score

The score you recently added to the article Dominant (music) has an error: File:Dominant modulation Haydn Symphony in C Major No. 97.png. The top note in the second chord of the second full measure should be A, not G. There also have been considerable liberties taken in revoicing the orchestral texture to make it suitable for piano, including adding notes which aren't in the original, and turning the appoggiaturas into eighth notes. Did you make this reduction yourself? —Wahoofive (talk) 16:53, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

By "there...have been liberties taken" are you trying to say, "it's a piano reduction"? Hyacinth (talk) 23:58, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Not entirely. For example, on the third beat of the third full measure, there is no G in original chord -- only C's and E's (with appoggiatura). More significantly, the tied D in bar 6, making the second beat supposedly a seventh chord, is not present in the orchestral score. And the harmonic analysis is perhaps OR? Different analysts might pinpoint the modulation as happening earlier, although this is indeed an excellent example of modulation to the dominant. —Wahoofive (talk) 15:20, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

I've changed the image based on two IMSLP scores (full and piano solo) and added harmonic analysis for both keys for the entire length. Hyacinth (talk) 15:39, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the edits. I'm thinking that the new analysis obscures the point, though. Definitely the pieces is in C at the start and in G at the end, even if we're not totally sure (and Haydn purposely obscured) where the change takes place. —Wahoofive (talk) 00:00, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Transfer to Commons

Hello Hyacinth, I'm writing an article on the Greek WP about historically informed performance and I should like to use some files you seem to have uploaded. Unfortunately, useful and excellent as they are, they have not been transferred into Commons. I'm afraid I am not too familiar with the procedure, so would it be too much trouble for you to have a look into it? The files in question are these:

Comparison of tunings: I IV${}_{4}^{6}$ V I. , , (quarter-comma), (Werckmeister), and

Thanks a million! --Chrysalifourfour (talk) 14:18, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

My first answer is see Wikipedia:Moving files to the Commons#How to transfer files to Commons (and Help:Transwiki). Hyacinth (talk) 01:19, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, had I known how to do it I wouldn't have bothered you in the first place. Thanks for your time anyway, I guess I'll wait for the bot transfer sometime in the future. --Chrysalifourfour (talk) 12:26, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

My goal is to try to do a transfer in the very near future. It seems to be one of those things on Wikipedia that may be done through one of an endless stream of complicated options. If I do complete one of those options I'll tell you how it went. Hyacinth (talk) 18:06, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

You can transfer files manually, though that can get tedious if there are many versions. Hyacinth (talk) 17:48, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

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Augmented sixth chord

Greetings. In Augmented sixth chord you find: F♯-A♭-C is a doubly diminished triad. Note that it is enharmonically equivalent to G♭-A♭-C (incomplete dominant seventh [missing E♭] or "backdoor" dominant-seventh substitute vii^o). You have contributed the incomplete dominant seventh [missing E♭] part. Do you mean that chord is the dominant 7th on A♭ (A♭-C-E♭-G♭) in 3rd inversion (G♭-A♭-C-E♭) and missing its top tone (E♭)? If yes, then whoever added that it is a "backdoor" dominant-seventh substitute vii^o got it wrong it seems to me. Obviously it is no diminished (5th) chord. Contact Basemetal here 21:48, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

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Photo requests

Hello, Mikhail. When you want to request a photo for a music-related topic, please use {{Image requested|music topics}} rather than {{Image requested|music}}. This will put your request in the correct category and make it more visible to other editors. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 10:37, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Hello, again. I see that you have redirected Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of music topics to Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of music. Personally, I don't know how to take a photograph of music, except maybe sheet music, but that's neither here nor there. I just wanted to point out to you that this will not change any of the pages that are in the "topics" category. You would have to edit the {{Image requested}} template in each of those pages to move them to the new (shorter) category title. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 21:22, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't know how to take a picture of science, either. Hyacinth (talk) 22:42, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

"Hard shuffle"

Hi Hyacinth, could you please take a look at my new image of "hard shuffle" (dotted eighth + sixteenth) which I based on one of your initial images from 2008? Although I tried not to make any mistake, I'm not 100% familiar with music notation, so maybe something has been missed, or misplaced, e.g. these dots? If the image were ok however, it might replace successfully the current figure of "dotted eighth shuffle" in Swing (jazz performance style). With best regards --Qniemiec (talk) 22:34, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Template:Infobox single

Hey Hyacinth. I was just wondering why you added a "video director" field to Template:Infobox single? I fail to see a discussion about its addition to the infobox. Thanks.  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 19:10, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

You should check again. I have never edited Template:Infobox album. Hyacinth (talk) 19:44, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

My bad, I meant Template:Infobox single. Corrected.  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 20:34, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

It does not appear to be a "substantial change". The field is of value and relevant to most of the articles the template appears on and thus not likely to be empty. Are you just curious, or are you complaining? Hyacinth (talk) 20:48, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Can you explain to me what exactly a "V. director" is? I thought that I could just have a nice, civil conversation about this, but apparently that is not the case, as seen by your attitude thus far. Just because you have the power to change something does not mean you can do so without consensus. Adding a completely new field is quite a "substantial change" to a template; whereas correcting a spelling mistake, for example, is not. I guess I'll be going elsewhere with this.  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 21:01, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

How have I been uncivil? Hyacinth (talk) 21:07, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Video director

Having left a blunt message at Template talk:Infobox single, I see there is already a discussion. Consensus or not, the correct syntax in field data14 should be {{#ifexist:{{{Director|}}}|[[{{{Director}}}]]|}}. Please change immediately. Thank you.--Launchballer 22:53, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Infobox single

I don't know what you were attempting to do with your edits, but it broke every invocation of {{Infobox single}}. Please test things first: it's very disturbing to see a sequence of tiny edits on such a widely used template: it is a very good sign that you are editing live without testing.—Kww(talk) 22:54, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes, please. I've already seen multiple pages broken in the last hour or so due to this. — RockMFR 22:55, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Can you show me where you tested this change before going live with it? It was done after you received two complaints about breaking every infobox in Wikipedia today (which you did both here and here).—Kww(talk) 23:58, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

You seem to be adding unsourced information to infoboxes as well. You added "Hype Williams" as the director in both Breathe (Blu Cantrell song) and Satisfy You. Do not add information to articles without providing a reliable source for the information.—Kww(talk) 00:12, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

The first four sections of Breathe (Blu Cantrell song) contain no citations. According to WP:CITE, "Wikipedia's Verifiability policy requires inline citations for any material challenged or likely to be challenged." Breathe (Blu Cantrell song) already contained Category:Music videos directed by Hype Williams. Hyacinth (talk) 00:16, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Hype Williams is a living person. Do not add information about living persons to any article unless you can provide a source. Making a problem worse by adding more unsourced information is no excuse. Will you address my previous question? Where did you test this change?—Kww(talk) 00:19, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

If you look at Breathe (Blu Cantrell song) and Satisfy You you will see that I did not actually add information. Neither the writers, producers, or performers are cited. If you remove my "addition" please remove those additions as well. Hyacinth (talk) 00:23, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Per WP:CITE, which you have already quoted, inline citations are required whenever the material has been challenged. Another edit like this one will result in you being blocked from editing.—Kww(talk) 00:26, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

You challenged my "addition" after it was added. One undo is not an edit war, nor cause for blocking. Hyacinth (talk) 00:28, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

You inserted information without an inline citation after I had challenged it. That is unacceptable. It certainly is a cause for blocking. Do not do it again. You still have not addressed the other question: Where did you test this change?—Kww(talk) 00:32, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't know how much clearer I have to make this: don't add information about living people without providing a source. If you want to add that Hype Williams is a director of a video, you need to make certain that the article contains a reliable source that shows that Hype Williams is the director. It really is that simple. The next article that you add it to that does not contain a souce, the block will be immediate.—Kww(talk) 00:46, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't know how much clearer I have to be either. It is not adding if the information is already in the article. These articles don't have citations for the fact that the artists claimed to have recorded them actually did. Why wouldn't the articles need to be deleted now that you have notice this? Hyacinth (talk) 00:55, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

You have been blocked indefinitely from editing for continuing to add unsourced information about living people to articles after multiple requests to stop. Any admin can unblock when the editor agrees to stop doing so, or at least engage in discussion at WP:ANI about his edits. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the following text below this notice: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. However, you should read the guide to appealing blocks first.

—Kww(talk) 00:58, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Actually, I'll drop this block if you just agree to pause and engage the discussion at ANI. It's the plowing ahead despite all objections from anyone that's the problem here.—Kww(talk) 01:04, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

Hyacinth (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

---

Request reason:

This block represents a conflict of interest as User:Kww was in a content dispute with me and blocked me, rather than going to another administrator. I can't participate in ANI if blocked.

If User:Kww simply failed to realized the information was in the article, and wasn't removed by User:Kww, then the conflict is explained as a misunderstanding on that user's part (and my inability to inform the user). Hyacinth (talk) 01:51, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Accept reason:

Hyacinth has accepted the conditions given by Kww below.-gadfium 02:16, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

All you have to do is agree to participate in the ANI thread and stop making these changes until things are resolved and I will unblock you. The fact that you plowed ahead and made the change to dozens more articles explains why I didn't go to a different admin, BTW.—Kww(talk) 01:13, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

The first request for me to participate in ANI occured after I was blocked. Hyacinth (talk) 01:37, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

You were notified at 00:32 and blocked at 00:56.  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 01:43, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Template:ANI-notice is an alert or warning. If it is meant to be a request, its text should be changed to reflect that. Perhaps: "Hello. Please participate in the current discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you." Hyacinth (talk) 01:54, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Real life intrudes, and I will be away for about two hours. Other admins, please watch and be liberal: if Hyacinth shows any signs of actually being willing to discuss things as opposed to plowing ahead, unblock him and let him discuss them.—Kww(talk) 01:28, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Hyacinth, I'm very happy to unblock you if you will assure me that you will participate in the ANI discussion and avoid edits pertaining to that template in the interim.-gadfium 01:45, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Please. Hyacinth (talk) 02:11, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Just wanted to remind you that "engaging in discussion" doesn't mean to post one statement accusing everyone else of being wrong and stopping. It means to answer the questions, such as why you continued to add material without sources, why you edited the template to add a field that other editors had requested you not to add, and why you edited the template without testing the changes.—Kww(talk) 03:27, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Patience, please. We're on online time, and eventually I have to do things like eat and sleep. Thanks. Hyacinth (talk) 07:05, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Note that the reference you demanded was already in the article (see http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Breathe_%28Blu_Cantrell_song%29&diff=563299650&oldid=563298642 ). That's different from the case of Hype Williams producing many of these videos, where there is no citation in the article to any source containing that information. It really is important to find citations for this, and not just tag the articles. I understand and recognize that many of the articles are in the category, but with no source in the article, the correct thing to do is remove the category, not copy the information to more places.

I see that you've acknowledged not testing the templates before making changes active at WP:ANI. So long as you don't do that again, I will consider that issue closed.—Kww(talk) 23:39, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your eventual acknowledgment of my question regarding the information already being present. This shows article quality being high priority on your part. Hyacinth (talk) 23:47, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Notice

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 00:32, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Infobox

Hello Hyacinth. The changes you have done to {{Infobox single}} didn't have previous discussion and were done against community's will, given that several users have told you to revert your additions and to stop. Therefore, I'd like to ask you to stop re-adding it to the template before discussing it. As you should know, substantial changes (like adding a new field) must be discussed first, and performed after discussion has taken place. I will be requesting a local sysop to revert your edits again and they should not be put back until consensus is reached to do so. Regards. — ΛΧΣ²¹ 00:54, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Important

Please return to AN/I and participate in the discussion there. This was the condition of your unblock. Please stop editing elsewhere until the concerns expressed at AN/I have been resolved. Tiderolls 03:24, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

• I find your participation at the AN/I discussion incomplete and unresponsive. Do you need more time to respond? Please let me know how you intend to proceed; my intention is to seek consensus for your re-block under the present circumstances. Tiderolls 05:12, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

I do have to sleep sometime. Thanks. Hyacinth (talk) 07:03, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Read the top of Hyacinth's user page and reflect also on his US location.

Would you like a whipping boy to block? Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:40, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

I have unreviewed a page you curated

Hi, I'm Swibe. I wanted to let you know that I saw the page you reviewed, Hype Williams videography/sandbox, and have un-reviewed it again. If you have any questions, please ask them on my talk page. Thank you. Swibe (talk) 23:50, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

It's at User:Hyacinth/Hype Williams videography. Swibe is right: under current rules, that doesn't belong as a subpage of Hype Williams videography. It's fine to have it as a page in your user space, though.—Kww(talk) 23:59, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

A bowl of strawberries for you!

I hope you like them :) — ΛΧΣ21 01:55, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Apology

Hi Hyacinth, when I pointed out that you have epilepsy [1], my intent was for the relevant admins to take this into account. I should not have commented on the nature of your responses, and for that, I am very sorry.--I am One of Many (talk) 02:34, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Hyacinth has written epigrammatically as long as I remember, and you should just enjoy his comments, like Haikus or maximally Kolmogorov-compressed wisdom. Try to read Karl Kraus or Schopenhauer or Wittgenstein (Culture and Value), and think how impoverished our letters would be if we all wrote like anodyne nabobs! ;)

Prolixly, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 22:27, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

BLP / Glen Campbell videos

Hyacinth, could you please explain why you tagged Glen Campbell videos with "BLP"? In that case every page about a release (music, video, book) by an (living) artist has to be tagged that way. Thanks! Lumdeloo (talk) 09:20, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

According to User:Kww (User talk:Hyacinth#Infobox single), "Do not add information about living persons to any article unless you can provide a source." Hyacinth (talk) 17:24, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I will ask Kww about it then. Thanks! Lumdeloo (talk) 12:55, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

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Category:Composition school templates

I saw you working on Template:Composition schools and I was wondering whether it would be useful to create a new subcategory Category:Composition school templates under Category:Composer templates. This may make a section See also obsolete. What do you think? LazyStarryNights (talk) 22:03, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Sure. Hyacinth (talk) 22:07, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Done LazyStarryNights (talk) 22:50, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, that seems like a really good idea given the number of members and the size of the supercategory. Hyacinth (talk) 23:15, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

No problem.

I also moved all remaining composer templates to the relevant subcategories.

Something else: in case you might be interested I posted Template talk:Composition schools#Various suggestions and questions. LazyStarryNights (talk) 20:54, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

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Notifications

Hi. I'm going through the archives of WT:Notifications, trying to get a list of all the unresolved bugs and feature requests. I was wondering if you were still having the problem you mentioned at Wikipedia_talk:Notifications/Archive_4#Appearance? If so, could you possibly tell me more details about your viewing method (device, any custom skins/settings that might be relevant, etc). Thanks :) –Quiddity (talk) 21:22, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Category:Duos and duets

Please tell me you haven't just crammed two fairly large and entirely separate topics into a single category without consulting any other editors first. — Paul A (talk) 03:22, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

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Lulu query

Hi - I've a question at Talk:Lulu (opera)#Trope I that you may be able to help with (I think it was you who added the content). --Camembert (talk) 18:27, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Klang

Hyacinth, I propose that the article "Klang (music)" be deleted. My reasons are in the talk page of the article. If something of it were to be kept, I believe it should be under the heading "Chord of Nature", not "Klang", which is neither an English term (translations more often read "Clang"...) nor, in this specific acception, a German one. To convey the idea that the German "Klang" somehow denotes the chord of nature is misleading. An article on the Chord of Nature should trace the idea to its 18th-century origins (probably with Rameau) and describe its avatars since. I would be willing to participate to the writing of such an article. Yours,

Hucbald.SaintAmand (talk) 15:53, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Deleting an article you intend to rewrite is unnecessary. See: WP:Redirect and {{Requested move}}. Hyacinth (talk) 20:55, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

I assume you are German. It appears that when you say word "acception" you mean "conception. Hyacinth (talk) 21:38, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

I did not intend to rewrite the article ;-)), I had no time. Circumstances forced me otherwise, but what I propose is only a first draft -- and I'll have no time to do better for a while. Also, I would like the case to be constructively discussed and my draft constructively criticized: the matter is much more complex that it had seemed at first.

"Acception" does not exist in German (that I know); it does in English (wikt:acception), but it is obsolete (which I didn't know). This leaves you with a second guess as to what my language is (that's easy) and what my nationality is -- let's say that if Hucbald was born today, he may be born in my country.

This all to say also that my proposition for "Klang (music)" probably is not very good English. Any improvement will be welcome.

Hucbald.SaintAmand (talk) 13:30, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Deleting an article never makes it better. Hyacinth (talk) 22:54, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Bias is a, "tendency to believe that some...ideas...are better than others". Mistakes don't count as bias. Hyacinth (talk) 23:47, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Nihil de nobis, sine nobis

With humble respect, and in accordance with the precept of Nihil de nobis, sine nobis, I would like to draw your attention to the fact that I have mentioned you (twice now, in fact) in a discussion on Meta-Wiki. Your input in the discussion would no doubt be very welcome as part of the ongoing discussion, and I would particularly value your viewpoint, being that you self-identify with two minority groups that may be affected by this proposed policy. Kind regards, AugurNZ ✐⌕ 14:12, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Template:Photo req

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Visiting the page's talk page seems not to have done anything, including contesting the nomination. You may need compare WP:Redirect vs. WP:Duplicate. Hyacinth (talk) 22:39, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

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A tag has been placed on Template:Req image requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

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Speedy deletion nomination of Template:Image req

A tag has been placed on Template:Image req requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

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Proposed deletion of Apollo House (Croydon)

The article Apollo House (Croydon) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Not notable, no sources listed in 2 years

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Question

Hi. Can you offer your opinion on this question I've posed? I could really use your thoughts on the matter. Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 15:30, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Err

Further information: Category:French words and phrases

Many French words have long been adopted in English and do not need to be italicized (renaissance, timbre, demise, etc.). Same could be said about thousands of other words from dozens of other languages. Please use common sense and dictionaries. Cheers. Materialscientist (talk) 05:36, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

THANK YOU for saying so, Materialscientist. I came here to see if anyone had had the same reaction as I did, but you pretty much said it all. Words like "toque" are not italicised in normal usage. I also didn't see anything on Category page about italicising these words, so why are we being directed there for an explanation? Mabalu (talk) 10:56, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I see it - "This category is not for articles about concepts and things but only for articles about the words themselves." Going to undo the edit on Toque now as that article's about the hat, not the word. Mabalu (talk) 11:06, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Came to make the same point. The use of italics in English for terms that were originally French is highly variable for many terms, and can only be established by eg google books searches (dictionaries are rarely much help). We should on the whole err on the side of caution. Most of the edits hitting my watchlist sh::ould be reversed - eg pince nez. Johnbod (talk) 15:17, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

I've already started removing a lot of the items under the category that AREN'T articles about words/phrases, as per the header on the category page. Mabalu (talk) 15:46, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

See WP:WORDSASWORDS in addition to MOS:Ety. Also see WP:WIP. Hyacinth (talk) 18:26, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

That doesn't provide a reason for your edits. E.g. MOS:Ety says to use italics for "foreign words that do not yet have everyday use in non-specialized English", but how does that apply to "village"[2] ? Please stop making such edits. DexDor (talk) 19:04, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Something is either a term or it isn't. It should either be italicized as a term, or it is not a term and shouldn't be categorized as such. This is common-sense. Hyacinth (talk) 19:13, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

In most/all of these cases it's the categorization that's incorrect. Wikipedia has thousands of articles about concepts whose titles include words that originated in a non-English language and most are categorized correctly (i.e. not in a words category). Also, WP:WIP does not provide a justification for making incorrect edits - and please try to avoid altering comments that people have already replied to (it could cause confusion). DexDor (talk) 19:38, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

If you have not done so, please contact the users who categorized the articles and inform them of their mistake as well. Hyacinth (talk) 19:39, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

No, unless you can show that would be a more productive use of my time than other edits. DexDor (talk) 19:51, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Category:Terms of French origin

Category:Terms of French origin, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. DexDor (talk) 19:15, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Place names

Please do not italicize headings of French place names, such as you did for Montjoie. Place names are never italicized in any language. Bien amicalement. Charvex (talk) 09:56, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

[Edit history now at Montjoie (disambiguation). Hyacinth (talk) 20:31, 30 November 2013 (UTC)]

Do not break page redirects please.

Do you realise that by doing edits such as this, you are breaking redirects/page formatting? Nobody gives a flying merde (look! Italics! Happy?) whether or not the titles of redirects are italicised or not, anyway. Mabalu (talk) 10:08, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for saying "please" and "thank you" and linking to a policy or explanation. Hyacinth (talk) 20:36, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Erroneous alias for Neapolitan major scale

Sorry to disturb you, but there appears to be an erroneous alias in the Neapolitan scale article. I would like to get it straightened out and would appreciate it if you could please help me do so, especially since I don't have access to the cited reference. The discussion can be found at the bottom of Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Music_theory. --209.6.41.166 (talk) 01:18, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 5

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File:Dissonance in Bach.PNG

Hi. Did anyone draw WP:NFCR#File:Dissonance in Bach.PNG to your attention? I think there are some elements of that file that don't come from Bach and aren't needed for the image's purpose, and that their removal would resolve any issue. --Stfg (talk) 18:31, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Hyacinth (talk) 20:43, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

More {convert}-like templates

Hi. I saw you created {{Math templates}}. I wonder if you know of any more convert-like templates.

These days, the big {{convert}} template will be converted to using a lua module (discussed here). For this we want to know about all templates that possibly use a "convert units" principle. We list them in this category to look at them in the future (the net is cast wide). My question is: do you know of any other such templates? If so, please list them there, or notify me (here=ok). That way, they might get all the useful {convert} features from lua, later on. -DePiep (talk) 09:51, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

I'm not actually very familiar with math templates. Most of those listed in {{Math templates}} I heard of for the first time when putting them in {{Math templates}}. Hyacinth (talk) 22:17, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

License tagging for File:I-IV-V-I.mid

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WikiProject Classical Music, Composition Task Force Revival

Hello, I'm Tal Brenev. I've recently left a message at Wikipedia Talk:WikiProject Classical music/Compositions task force, in an attempt to revive the WikiProject. I will try to send a message to everyone on the list of participants, so as to get more suggestions and/or ideas. If you would like to participate, leave a message at the WikiProject Talk Page, or on my talk page. Thanks!

---Tal Brenev (talk) 22:52, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

January 2014

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Bernardo Storace may have broken the syntax by modifying 2 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

• '[[Folia|La Folía]]''. Finally, Storace's variations on the ''Passo e mezzo'' include one on the ''[[passamezzo moderno|moderno'' variant of the theme and two on the ''[[passamezzo antico|antico]]'';

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Syntonic comma

Hi--

Thought you might want to know about this if you're not aware of it, minor detail though it might be:

In your Wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syntonic_comma) toward the end, under the "Notation" heading where you are describing notation of major triads in Just and Pythagorean temperament, citing Ben Johnston's and Helmholtz-Ellis's notation practices, it appears that in the musical notation examples there is some kind of omission or corruption. What I see is a C major triad with NO "accidentals" included at all, followed by two captions, one for Johnston and one for Helmholtz-Ellis. I am wondering whether there are musical examples for each that should be displayed but somehow are not.

I have enjoyed perusing your other articles. They recall many facets of my grad school study at Indian University, where I studied under and was staff in the center run by Iannis Xenakis.

Michael J. Babcock mjb_nemo@yahoo.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.39.118.39 (talk) 22:25, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Different notation systems assign different ratios between the same letters. E♮ is 5/4 in Johnston's notation (based on just intonation) and 81/64 in HE (based on Pythagorean tuning). Hyacinth (talk) 01:46, 5 February 2014 (UTC)