Talk:Peter Abelard

Archived talk page up to now

I have archived the talk page up to now because it was very big. I have, however, summarized two of its main topics below, for ease of use of readers, especially since the maintenance template for "Close paraphrasing" claims that "Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page."

Over-reliance on EB1911 text

The Peter Abelard article has been subject to critique due to its over-reliance on text from the 1911 edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica (EB1911). While the use of this historical text provides a foundation, concerns have been raised regarding the relevance, accuracy, and possible copyright infringement. This discussion encapsulates the main points raised by community members.

Numerous users expressed their discontent with the extensive use of the EB1911 text within the article, asserting that it may not necessarily provide the most accurate or comprehensive information. The language used in the EB1911 text is also seen as a barrier to understanding, with users noting some instances of obscure or outdated vocabulary. There were concerns about potential copyright infringement, which were later dismissed upon the realization that the EB1911 text is in the public domain. An evaluation of the article by a contributor to the Composers Project highlighted the reliance on the EB1911 text and its consequences for the quality and credibility of the article.

Specific comments:

• User:BevRowe (April 3, 2003) questions the necessity of pasting content from EB1911, given its wide availability on the web and potential quality issues.
• A discussion regarding the usage of the word "Quasijocando", in November 2005, raised the issue of potential errors in the 1911 text and the use of obscure language that could confuse readers.
• A Composers Project Assessment of the article, by User:Magicpiano (November 20, 2008), underscores that while the EB1911 text contributes to the quality of writing, the lack of inline citations, outdated scholarship, and difficulty in editing hinder the article's overall quality and relevance.
• User:Unfree (December 17, 2009) defends the erudition and the historical significance of the 1911 text, arguing that modern encyclopedias may not necessarily provide better information.
• An anonymous user (November 30, 2010) initially raises the issue of "blatant copyright infringement". However, this concern is dismissed by User:JohnCD who reminds that the 1911 text is in the public domain.
• User:StarTigerJLN (February 4, 2021) removes a 1911 reference, substituting it with a modern Brittanica reference written by an Abelardian scholar, emphasizing that the 1911 reference isn't necessary or particularly good.

Spelling, pronunciation and origin of Abelard's name

There has been some debate about the correct form and pronunciation of Peter Abelard's name in this article. The discussions cover various facets including alternate spellings, accentuation, and pronunciation.

Specific comments:

• User:Lowellian has questioned the source of the claim that Abelard's name was a corruption of Habélardus and that he was given the nickname 'Bajolardus' when he was a student. Lowellian also requested clarification on the meaning of 'Bajolardus'. (12 January 2007)
  • An unregistered user referenced an extract from the New International Encyclopedia which suggested that both 'Abélard' and 'Bajolardus' are epithets of uncertain meaning. They also hinted at potential Latin and French origins of the names. (19 February 2008)
  • User:Unfree added a humorous comment possibly suggesting a link to the medical condition beriberi. (17 December 2009)
• User:DoNNNald proposed that the spelling 'Abelard' should be used without an accent mark as this is the common academic usage, and it aligns with the Latin spelling of the name. This spelling is now standard in the article. (20 July 2007)
  • User:DoNNNald and User:Makemi discussed the standard spelling of Abelard's counterpart, Heloise, and agreed to the non-accented form. (20 July 2007)
• User:StarTigerJLN emphasized the importance of including the French pronunciation of Abelard's name as he was of French origin. (9 February 2021)
• User:Ransouk proposed that the name should be presented as "Pierre Abélard" instead of the anglicized form, Peter Abelard. (18 April 2021)

For the full discussion, you must read the archive at Talk:Peter Abelard/Archive 1, but I recommend that new issues be started here, so that they might be easier to follow, since the page is now shorter. I hope these summaries help make the main issues with the article clear. Thiagovscoelho (talk) 20:17, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Restructured article, moved some material to "Letters of Abelard and Heloise"

I changed the heading structure in a way that I believe is an improvement.

I found that this article contained a section with a roughly complete publication history of the Letters of Abelard and Heloise, as well as claims about their authenticity and the authenticity of new additions to the Letters corpus. I thought that this was excessive, and created a separate article for the Letters, moving this material there. I also moved some material from the Heloise article, to which the link Letters of Abelard and Heloise had previously been a redirect. Thiagovscoelho (talk) 20:30, 11 July 2023 (UTC)