Talk:Video game piracy

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 20 January 2021 and 2 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Tuh22823 (article contribs).

Being neutral: attributing "piracy" to proponents of the term

The word piracy in reference to unauthorised copying of digital data is a smear word. By using this word, Wikipedia is agreeing with a point of view. This article should be rewritten so that the neutral terms "unauthorised copying" and "prohibited copying" are used in Wikipedia's voice. It should be pointed out that it is commonly known as "piracy", but that there are opponents of this term. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Piracy This website is both a reference for an opponent and even provides another where a judge in a US trial recognised it as a smear word. Regards, DesertPipeline (talk) 08:23, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

I've now completed the required changes for this article to be neutral, including moving it to a new title. It doesn't currently mention the word "piracy". It should do so in the lead, and also have a section dedicated to the term which also discusses the criticisms of that term. Regards, DesertPipeline (talk) 08:04, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Also, redirects from the original title Video game piracy should be retargeted to point here directly, preferably fixing the language in the article which links here so it doesn't mention the term "piracy" in Wikipedia's voice. DesertPipeline (talk) 08:24, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Impact section

This article also needs an impact section. To ensure neutrality, it should include both claims by game developers and publishers, and the counterclaims of independent studies and such. DesertPipeline (talk) 09:16, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 16 April 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) ~ Aseleste (t, e | c, l) 15:18, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

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Video game piracy → Unauthorized distribution of video games (or Unauthorized copying of video games) – While the current title is the most common name, it is not neutral. It attempts to equate distributing copies of someone's own copy of a video game with piracy – as in attacking ships and committing other violent acts. It also doesn't make any sense when thought about literally; you have to know that "piracy" actually means "copying/distributing without permission" to understand it. Of course, a redirect can solve that problem, but I don't think there's any reason to use a non-neutral name which is more common considering we can just redirect "Video game piracy" here. Note: This move was boldly performed at 08:00, 15 April 2021‎ (UTC) by me (User:DesertPipeline), then moved back to the current title at 13:57, 15 April 2021‎ (UTC) by User:Novem Linguae. DesertPipeline (talk) 09:05, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this subsection with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Oppose. I prefer the current title because it is the WP:COMMONNAME. Current title has 89,500 google results, proposed title has 9. I like clear and succinct titles for article names. It is easier for a reader to absorb the information. The outcome of this discussion will also affect what terminology we use in the article. –Novem Linguae (talk) 12:47, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose - The term 'piracy' is by far the common name, and the proposed name of 'unauthorized copying' isn't being used by anyone to describe this phenomena. There also isn't sufficent sources saying that 'piracy' is generally regarded as a smear word. Prior to the move, 'piracy' being listed by the GNU as a 'word to avoid' came up, but that same list also opposes things such as using 'Google' as a verb and 'MP3 Player' for audio players in general, which seems a bit fringe to me. Anecdotally, people who pirate games don't seem to care about the term piracy, or even embrace it. Waxworker (talk) 12:57, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose. Seems a no-brainer to me. There seems no doubt as to the common name, the only reason for moving is the perceived negative implication of the term piracy, which might express a POV. But the pirates don't seem to mind the term at all, so even the case that it expresses a POV is demolished. Andrewa (talk) 10:36, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

• User:Novem Linguae: Even if this move request ends in no move, that doesn't mean going back to using the word "piracy" in the article. There are other articles where a non-neutral name is used as the title and the article itself refers to it with the neutral name – Alexander the Great is an example given on an NPOV information page. However, I'm not sure why we would want to prefer a common name to the exclusion of a neutral name – what does it matter to the reader? A redirect from the non-neutral term can take them right to the article they're looking for, and maybe they'll learn something by the fact that we're not agreeing with a point of view that goes practically uncontested in the wider world. DesertPipeline (talk) 12:51, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

  DesertPipeline, Even if this move request ends in no move, that doesn't mean going back to using the word "piracy" in the article. I disagree. This RM is also doubling as our RFC. If there is a strong consensus to stay at a title that has the word "piracy" in it, we should switch the term back. I could still revert your edits under WP:BRD, as the version using the word "piracy" has been stable for years. But I am holding off pending the outcome of this RM. –Novem Linguae (talk) 12:58, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

  User:Novem Linguae: That isn't what a move request is for. Also, do you disagree that "piracy" is non-neutral, and "unauthorised copying/distribution" is a neutral replacement? If so, please explain your reasoning. Thanks, DesertPipeline (talk) 03:51, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

• User:Waxworker: It should be fairly obvious why a word which compares the act of making copies of a copy of something which you own with crime at sea is non-neutral. Can you also give an answer to what I asked Novem above? Thanks, DesertPipeline (talk) 03:54, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

I think the term 'piracy' is neutral, and I don't think the etymology of the term impacts its neutrality at all. While there may be people that oppose the term, there will almost always be people opposed to something. I think that for everyone that opposes it, there are a lot more who embrace the term, such as the site The Pirate Bay among others. I think that a section on the article about opponents to the term would be good, but changing 'piracy' to 'unauthorized distribution' is unnescessarily wordy and not what it's generally called, and it seems like it would confuse readers. Waxworker (talk) 04:15, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

User:Waxworker: Why something has come to be used in a certain way is a crucial part of investigating whether or not the word or term is being used in "good faith". I personally consider it to not be in good faith to try to suggest that people who make copies of their copy of a work are "pirates". Also, I'm not sure how it could confuse readers. Which word do you think would confuse them? What if we say "unauthorised copying"? DesertPipeline (talk) 04:23, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This is a caution to all editors and participants of this talk page. As stated at the very top of the page, this article has been chosen for a student editing assignment, which is sanctioned by the Wiki Education Foundation.

In a matter of hours, this page will be overhauled to reflect the effort of this semester-long student editing assignment. These edits will clarify and lightly expand upon all existing sections, and add a new history section. The focus of these edits is general article improvement, given its current rating of Start-Class.

I am aware of the ongoing debate concerning this article's use of the word "piracy" as a smear term. Given the recency and ongoing nature of this discussion, my pending edits to this page will not change the usage of this word.

- Tuh22823 (talk) 04:10, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

UPDATE: All content from this student editing assignment has been imported. For the ease of any necessary reversions, I broke up the edits into chunks, each one covering a sentence or two. It's been a pleasure working with this article.

- Tuh22823 (talk) 08:44, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

I spot checked a couple of the edits, they look pretty good. Thanks for your work on this article. –Novem Linguae (talk) 09:35, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Note about title

"Unauthorized copying of video games" is a better title to move this page to, rather than "Unauthorized distribution of video games". "Unauthorized copying" encompasses all related activities, because copying precedes distribution. DesertPipeline (talk) 12:24, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

There was a clear consensus that the current title is the WP:COMMONNAME that was closed a little over s month ago so I don’t believe anything has changed in that short time.--65.92.163.98 (talk) 17:44, 23 May 2021 (UTC)