Martindo

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Hello, Martindo, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! SatuSuro 00:17, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Off on the wrong foot

Hi. In retrospect I was overhasty in my wholesale reversions of your edits, for which I apologize. In your well-considered responses to my responses you make some good points, and I thank you for your remark about my dedication. The Indonesia Project sorely needs editors with the patience, diligence and local knowledge to improve coverage of Indonesian issues and I hope that you will continue to edit and create articles. Regards Davidelit (talk) 15:08, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind words and recognition. I can see that you and the others are very dedicated. And I know (admit) from my own experience that one can get possessive about knowledge being presented accurately. I, in turn, apologize to you for my early accusations of bias. Martindo (talk) 05:35, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Wiranto

Hi, do you have a ref for "Wiranto was praised by many...". At the time of the 1998 riots, he ran away to Malang to take part in a military parade! Regards Davidelit (talk) 13:51, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Which riots are you referring to? Anti-Chinese? I don't have a reference but recall reading several media articles then, perhaps even Time or Newsweek. I'll dig around. I admit that this is unverified info, but it summarizes some of the info later on his page, so I thought it would be useful in the lead in order to balance the harsh criticism. Notice that I hedge by saying "turbulent times" rather than "the month of May 1998". Martindo (talk) 23:37, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I removed the "many" and added a couple sentences of explanation, based on Asia Times articles. In particular April 27, 2004 describes Wiranto and SBY "teaming" up to resist temptation to impose military rule in 1998. For info on Wiranto's positive reputation during that time, it would be necessary to find articles predating the East Timor massacre. Unfortunately, Asia Times does not archive before Jan 1, 1999. Statfor may have an analysis about Wiranto's role in "stabilizing". Martindo (talk) 00:33, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Obama campaign similarities

Hi Martindo! I saw you removed the screenshots of Yudhoyono's and Obama's web sites from Indonesian presidential election, 2009. I understand you were concerned of a possible POV. Perhaps, considering there is not much content on th other candidates, it could be considered POV since I'm only adding material about one candidate. However, such addition I think is important to the direction of the article. The source I cited [1] (including others from Indonesian sources, e.g. [2]) states that the similiarity is apparent, including the campaign logo. It also notes that the director of Yudhoyono's PR committee admits as much. It's not only Yudhoyono as well. Kalla's campaign web site [3] also has elements similar to the White House web site [4] (i.e. the four-image/story rotation. It's more than just Yudhoyono's campaign.

Sorry for the long and convoluted explanation. I've been working on compiling useful photos for the presidents and recent elections in the Commons, so I haven't had much time to develop the article fully after finishing the coalition section. I'd rather wait until the first round is over to write about the individual campaigns, but I wanted to get it up there before the web site changed in any way. My attention has been focused on expanding the Indonesian presidential election, 2004 first. Cheers! Arsonal (talk) 06:35, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

It seems they are all jumping on the bandwagon, so highlighting only one candidate might give the impression that SBY is somehow closer to BHO. In fact, SBY's campaign slogan is "lanjutkan" -- continue, not change -- which is the opposite of BHO's campaign. Personally, I think the similarity is crude imitation but it's weird in light of the disparity of slogans. You are right: focusing on only one candidate is the problem. If you've been in Indonesia the past few months, you may have seen the Prabowo ads on TV (when he was still running for the top spot) which included 5-10 seconds of BHO victory speech, giving the misleading impression that he was endorsing Prabowo. Portraying this type of "linkage" is like walking on thin ice, there is huge risk of favoritism or even perpetuation of false impressions. Martindo (talk) 19:10, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

On second thought, a new section called Campaign Tactics would be a good place to show web sites of *all three* candidates. A short explanation of the similarity and imitation of BHO web site would be helpful -- lots of web designers use similar style so "similarity" could be in the eye of the beholder without clear guidance. If you create such a section, I recommend that you put the images toward the bottom of the page, not in the special column to the right. Martindo (talk) 00:50, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the notes. I will expand information on the candidates' campaigns (as I currently plan on doing for the 2004 election page) when I finally get some time. The images actually weren't in a special column. It just appeared that way due to the current lack on prose. Cheers! Arsonal (talk) 08:26, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Replying

I for one find it hard to know who someone is with a blank user page - you are referring to books that I have had the pleasure of only very very quick reviews in the ANU or Nat Lib in Canberra - so who or what you are does in some substance affect how I reply.

Have you read either Stephen Headley (Durga's Mosque) or Martin van Bruinessen (Sharia, tarekat and pesantren religious institutions in the sultanate of Banten)?

Headley others and I had our signatures in the Yogya kraton library attendance book many many many moons ago - and he is like the great american tradition chose solo (Florida, Pemberton, Siegel, and others) - and I do not by any stretch of the imagination suggest there is any problem with the amazing amount of good work they have done - but I would never allow any one ethnographic or academic study to predicate any generalisation that I have ever ventured in the area of encyclopedia entries - the fixation of a whole generation of american and australian indonesian studies students on geertzs ideas was close to a tragedy I think, and a good example why martin or stephen (both great guys) are not the answer but only part of it.

I would like to add that "wali" literally means "guardian" or "proxy" (Echols-Shadily) and only loosely means "saint". For example, Indonesian public schools have a "wali murid" and Muslim weddings have a wali for the bride.

Anyone who ever utilises one dictionary is out for me full stop, sorry. Also any claim for a way of translating meaning from a single source is simply not my area - sorry. Appropriation of a word in current usage has nothing to do with the earlier usages.

Finally (for now), what are your thoughts on modifying the title to Wali Songo, rather than the more traditional Javanese transliteration "sanga"? The "songo" spelling is less obscure and more likely to be input by users of WP. Martindo (talk) 8:30 am, Today (UTC+8)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:SatuSuro"

I simply do not have time to reply to the spelling issue - put a redirect for variant spelling and leave it at that - if you really want to have a 3 page essay on spelling, usage and - you will have to wait till January 2010 - cheers Otherwise stay clear of trying to change spellings - if you dont understand where I am coming from - try looking at the edit history for the word Java over the last 4 years - weikipedia is inhabited by editors and readers challenged in many ways - I do not want to and do not have the time to explain why making a redirect is the simplest and easiest resoltuion to your problem SatuSuro 02:48, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

FYI, Headley is French, despite his British or American sounding surname. I have had direct correspondence with him about his book. A neutral observer looking at the references for the Wali Songo and some other pages would immediately see that Ricklefs is predominant, so I don't understand how adding 1 or 2 additional sources is "relying on a single source" -- that reliance is the current state of affairs, IMO!

In regard to "wali", I merely corrected the Wali Songo page to match the Arabic definition given on the WP page of "wali" so how is that relying on "one dictionary"? Martindo (talk) 05:08, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

As my watch list is going from 9000 to 100 over the next couple of days and as time seriously runs out I am in neither the time head place or place for extended conversation about all this - there are issues I could expand on greatly - but not now - apologies - mohon maaf, but please do not change the wali material too signifcantly without going to the cumbersome Indonesia project noticeboard !!!!SatuSuro 03:03, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

I appreciate that you have done much in this overall project. It appears that you are the originator/progenitor of numerous pages. However, when I see a page that was flagged as "needs cleanup" 2 or 3 years ago, I wonder about being deflected to the "cumbersome Indonesia project noticeboard". In particular, a careful reading of the 8 pages for the individual Wali Songo "members" reveals contradictions in family relationships. Cleanup is sorely needed. I will approach it carefully and accept your feedback. Everything moves at its own time, as Javanese know very well. Martindo (talk) 05:05, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Wali Sanga

110 days away from quiet Perth, Western Australia is proving to be a nightmare as money dissapears before I get it for various bookings and so on - so I am off wiki as from now - funny will be passing through new york but no indonesia this time :) - my argument about wali sanga is there is no easy outsiders 'tidy up' of relationships and numbers - the very nature of sandi sandi stuff in javanese traditions is they are never gonna tell you the 'truth' whether you want it or not - inherently there are contradictions in numbers and details - its part of the course - and as to who they are and where they come from and etc it is like my relationships with the kratons - not that I am a published or even adequately sitting in academic circles or patronage. But hey - please feel free to cleanup stuff - if you get too neat and tidy in the wali sanga stuff - then you are wrong :) - will try to email you as well - cheers and have fun SatuSuro 07:15, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

November 2009

Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed content from Russell Blaylock. When removing text, please specify a reason in the edit summary and discuss edits that are likely to be controversial on the article's talk page. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the text has been restored, as you can see from the page history. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. Verbal chat 19:13, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

This is snide. Somehow I made a mistake and deleted content! I'm not even clear what you're referring to, because I deleted a big chunk of the "political beliefs" screed from that page after the editor who uploaded it openly admitted in her own post to Talk that it was too long. So, (a) it was discussed on Talk, and (b) it was not reverted.

Funny, but the strongest criticisms I've received (see Davidelit and SatuSuro above) were resolved because they came from sincere editors who were specific. It seems odd that someone questioning my intellectual competence is not intelligent enough (PhD notwithstanding) to be specific here. Martindo (talk) 12:48, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Nah let it ride - this place is a zoo at times - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Malay_Archipelago - is a good indication where there are issues that stretch over into whole project issues that some dont seem to see beyond the talk page and text between immediate editors - the intellectual competence issue has no adequate standing in wikipedia - one has only to see the brawls at higher levels within wikipedia - zoo animals are in some cases better apt at coping with some of the hijinks here SatuSuro 01:24, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

As for Zoo employees.... --Merbabu (talk) 13:00, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh hell - one of the more respected editors on the indonesian project takes it personally (btw he works in a zoo...) - well I will clarify this - those monkeys I encountered in the grounds at the Taj Mahal two weeks ago are more competent at coherent behaviour than some of the editors I have 'watched' in some situations - and it doesnt include merbabu btw SatuSuro 13:36, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	You've been here for years, and always doing good work. This Barnstar is long overdue! --LK (talk) 10:04, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

changi

no time etc - but will check later - thanks... satusuro 11:38, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Cautionary Tale about Experts Denying the Experience of Ordinary People

Science is in flux and some subjective phenomena cannot be proven (or disproven) at present. Step back in time 50 years and you can see experts denying the experience of baseball players who swore that a knuckleball behaved strangely. “It’s just your imagination” was a typical comment.

At least 20 years went by before engineers discovered a clear explanation, as described in a 1987 NYT article (http://www.nytimes.com/1987/09/08/science/secret-of-knuckleball-s-dance-revealed.html). Note this excerpt:

Scientists know that such phenomena must obey the laws of nature, but some physicists, unable to account for complex trajectories, have contended that the relevant laws are those of psychology. They suggested that frustrated batters and confused catchers - who lunge after knuckleballs with their special, comically oversized mitts - were victims of optical illusion.

“Of course, anybody who's ever tried to hit one doesn't believe that,” said Cliff Frohlich, a physicist at the University of Texas who has studied a variety of sports problems. “The reason you come up with such an idea is that you don't have a good physical explanation for it.”

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Your adding to the section of ==Deforestation== I just received

Can you please add citations to these wordings "Forests are often cleared for palm oil industries. Typically, the company that has usage rights for the land will contract individuals to burn the supposedly "degraded" forest, thereby avoiding direct responsibility for fires, which become more likely when peatland is deforested.", so that I can translate and incorporate them in the Chinese version? Thanks for your kind attention.ThomasYehYeh (talk) 12:56, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, I now know what we are referring to. I'll try to translate your wordings when I can locate the right citation. Have a good day.ThomasYehYeh (talk) 01:37, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Clemente hit

Hi. Saw your edit summary about the finding of Clemente's 3000th hit after his death so had to check that interesting bit out. Looks like he did get his 3000th while alive, one of several sources on his page, and the hit was publicized and anticipated. Were they counted wrong, or is there more to the story? Thanks for a bit of trivia I never knew. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:08, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

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The Original Barnstar

		The Original Barnstar
		Thank you for creating Sunan Drajat. Please continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia, and know that your work and effort is greatly appreciated and respected.TheEagle107 (talk) 19:09, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Hedy Lamarr's relationship with the truth & FHSS

Hi there, I'm not a fan of Wikipedia so I've deleted my account (funnily enough over this very subject) because I was repeatedly attacked for not using notable sources. I'm only a science communicator with qualifications in electronics so what would I know, eh?

The patent is the key to this whole thing but, apart from the fact the invention was utterly unworkable (for reasons I'm happy to discuss) the patent was likely invalidated by prior art from Tesla (and others) but granted due to a wartime rush. That's something we can only speculate on this far from the time.

Lamarr was an inveterate liar and shoplifter who blamed her actions on others. But worst, that rape allegation was utterly evil on her part and shows the sort of person she really was.

FHSS? Well she probably did have the idea for it - but it's more likely and I mean almost a given that she overheard it in talks when she was still married to her arms dealing, Jewish husband because (as the trophy wife) she was present at dinner when things like that would have been discussed. FHSS in the form described appears to have been used by the German military as early as WW1! Much of this is repeated by Dr. Rothman in his book and I assume in the magazine article too.

I've had to piece all this together like an archaeologist constructs the past which is why this isn't easily demonstrable and my "book" on it (actually it's a long chapter) is stuck looking for a publisher but this is very toxic discussion because Lamarr is worshipped by young women. A fact that makes me feel physically sick.

Her induction into the Inventors Hall of Fame? I spoke to the elderly gentleman who proposed her (he'll have passed away now) but he was clearly too frail to discuss why he might have been utterly wrong. I figured let him live his life and no harm done because he couldn't change it anyway.

He was a fan of Lamarr though which explains why he failed to do his due diligence - same as everyone else involved. If they had, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Other contemporaries of Lamarr have also discussed this claim but again, we're all just leaves in a hurricane or plankton in a sea of BS. Wikipedia is a mammoth and this needs to be fixed - permanently so we can show the sort of person she really was, even if that paints her in bad light because people deserve the truth. 92.40.5.83 (talk) 14:50, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

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ACE Question

You recently asked a question at Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2023/Candidates/Maxim/Questions. I have added it to the end of the question list, and reformatted it so it does not break the numbering of the page. As a further matter, if you wish other candidates to answer the question, you will need to ask it to them individually. The other candidates don't automatically see it. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 01:11, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Martindo (talk) 02:35, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

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