Talk:Helena Blavatsky
Latest comment: 19 days ago by Horse Eye's Back in topic Category:Miracle workers
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Category:Miracle workers
edit@Toughpigs, MagicatthemovieS, and Lute88: can you guys explain the edit conflict I'm seeing on the page? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 20:57, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- It's fairly straightforward. MagicatthemovieS added the category Miracle workers to the page. I thought it was inappropriate, because Blavatsky was not an actual miracle worker. MagicaatthemovieS reverted back, explaining that the category is not necessarily for actual "miracle workers". That seems like a fairly pointless and confusing category to me, but whatever, I'll let it go.
- Then Lute88 reverted the category again; I'm not sure why. Toughpigs (talk) 21:04, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- I see what you're saying in that its potentially a confusing category... But I don't think that its meant to say that Blavatsky was an actual miracle worker, I expect that you two agree on that. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 21:10, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- Well, the explanation on the category implies that "magicians" and "saints" are real, and can perform "magic" or "wonderworking". There's nothing on the category page that says it's actually a category of frauds and quacks like Blavatsky. I don't know why we have such a credulous category that seems to say these people were "miracle workers" in wikivoice. Toughpigs (talk) 21:13, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- Thats fair and categories usually don't have extended bits like that so I have removed it. I think we're pretty clear that miracles aren't real in a scientific sense. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 21:23, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- This category is for anyone who supposedly performed miracles, including Jesus, Moses, Muhammad, etc. Blavatsky was purported to perform miracles. As long as the category exists, she belongs in it. MagicatthemovieS (talk) 21:25, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- More fundamentally, I don't see very clear support in the article text for this Category - there are just two instances of "Miracle Club"? Why is the category not called "Alleged miracle workers"? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:26, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- If you look at the history and talk page of the category, you can see that it was originally called "Wonderworkers", and was intended to be a category for Christian saints. I guess the concept broadened when the category's name was changed to "Miracle workers", and is now a catch-all for religious figures as well as frauds. Toughpigs (talk) 21:32, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- To be fair seperating those two in a NPOV sense doesn't seem possible. Miracles are fraudulent as normally understood, they're just in general not evaluated by rational scientific standards... By such standards they're frauds/lies/myths. Blavatsky is unambiguously a religious figure after all. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 21:35, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- Have we reached a concensus? MagicatthemovieS (talk) 03:05, 27 October 2024 (UTC)
- I think we have consensus to include provided that more is actually said in the article about her being a miracle worker. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:23, 27 October 2024 (UTC)
- Have we reached a concensus? MagicatthemovieS (talk) 03:05, 27 October 2024 (UTC)
- To be fair seperating those two in a NPOV sense doesn't seem possible. Miracles are fraudulent as normally understood, they're just in general not evaluated by rational scientific standards... By such standards they're frauds/lies/myths. Blavatsky is unambiguously a religious figure after all. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 21:35, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- If you look at the history and talk page of the category, you can see that it was originally called "Wonderworkers", and was intended to be a category for Christian saints. I guess the concept broadened when the category's name was changed to "Miracle workers", and is now a catch-all for religious figures as well as frauds. Toughpigs (talk) 21:32, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- Well, the explanation on the category implies that "magicians" and "saints" are real, and can perform "magic" or "wonderworking". There's nothing on the category page that says it's actually a category of frauds and quacks like Blavatsky. I don't know why we have such a credulous category that seems to say these people were "miracle workers" in wikivoice. Toughpigs (talk) 21:13, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- I see what you're saying in that its potentially a confusing category... But I don't think that its meant to say that Blavatsky was an actual miracle worker, I expect that you two agree on that. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 21:10, 26 October 2024 (UTC)