Jivo Jivasya Jivanam – one living being is food

for another

We are materially so much entangled that even if we do not want to commit

any sin, consciously or unconsciously we are obliged to commit some sort of
sins. We are in such a circumstances.
Say for example, just like animal killing. Animal killing, according to Buddhist
philosophy, or even according to Hindu philosophy, animal killing is a sort of
sin. Now, suppose I am not inclined to kill animals or I do not kill animals. I
avoid it. But intentionally or unintentionally, sometimes we have to kill animals.
How is that? Now, suppose we are walking on the street. There are many ants
who are being killed by the pressure of our legs unintentionally. Now,
suppose... Of course, here you have got gas oven, but in India they have got
ordinary country oven and that is worked daily. And sometimes in the oven
some small germs and flies they take shelter. But when you fire the oven, they
die. So that is unintentional. Sometimes we kill... The jug of water, and
underneath the jug of water, there are many, I mean to say, small germs and
flies. They take shelter. But when you take the jug, they are killed. In this way
there are so many processes, unintentionally or intentionally, we have to kill.
But they are taken into account; they are also sin. According to strict Vedic
literature, if you kill even a bug, oh, you are sinful. You cannot kill even a bug.
These are mentioned in the scriptures. Now, how we can avoid? How we can
avoid?
That is the distinction[?]. I do not like to kill, but sometimes unintentionally
they are killed. Therefore, according to Vedic literature, there are five kinds of
yajïa performed to get oneself free from this unintentional killing of animals.
Now, here Kåñëa says that çäréraà kevalaà karma kurvan näpnoti kilbiñam. If
you make your principle of life that "I have to work simply for maintaining my
body and soul together." Çäréram. Çaréram means body. Because I have to
execute, I have to understand, Kåñëa consciousness, but without this body,
how can I understand or culture Kåñëa consciousness? So my body must be
maintained. And if I want to maintain my body, intentionally or unintentionally,
I have to commit so many sins.
Take for example those who are vegetarians. They may think that "We are not
killing animals." No. They are also committing sins because vegetables, they
have also got life. So the nature's law is that to keep up your body you have to
kill another body. Never mind it is vegetable or, I mean to say, animal or some
fish or something else. You see? Jévo jévasya jévanam: "One living entity is the
subsistence, life-giving subsistence, for another living being." That is the
nature's law. You'll find. Ahastäni sahastänäm. The everything has been very
nicely discussed in Vedic literature. They have discussed all the points.
Ahastäni sahastänäm: "Those who have got hands, they are eating," I mean to
say, "living entities who have no hands." That means we are human being, we
have got hands, and we are eating animals. They have got only legs; they have
no hands. So sahastänäm ahastäni: "Those who have got hands, they are
eating the animals which have no hands." And apadäni catuñ-padäm: "Those
who have no legs, they are being eaten by the four-legged." Just like a cow
eating grass. So grass cannot move. It has life, but it cannot move. So and...
phalgüni tatra mahatäm. Phalgüni, "those who are weak, they are being eaten
by the..." Just like we find lizards. In your country you don't find lizards. In India
we have got many lizards in the walls. They are eating small ants. Phalgüni
mahatäà tatra. And in the snake, snake kingdom, you will find the small snakes
are being by the big snake. Similarly, in sea water also, you will find small
fishes are being eaten by the big fishes.
And the same law is applicable in human society. A big nation is trying to
swallow up a small nation. You see? This is going on. This is nature's law.
1
Nature's law. You cannot avoid it. But there are those who are Kåñëa
conscious. They... It is said that çäréraà kevalaà karma kurvan näpnoti
kilbiñam: "Those who are in Kåñëa consciousness, they are not entangled in
these sinful acts." How? They are also maintaining their body. So when they are
maintaining their body, they have to commit sins. They have to eat other
animals or vegetables. Never mind. So how they are not committing sins?
These are very intelligent questions. There is Kåñëa consciousness.
A devotee of Lord Kåñëa, he does not eat anything which is not offered to
Kåñëa. Just like you take the remnants of your master. Just like servant takes
the remnants of master. The master eats. In India the process is that husband
and wife, that after the husband eats, the remnants are taken by the wife. The
wife does not eat along with the husband. That is the old system. Now it is
being changed. The husband and wife, they do not... The husband is supplied
by the wife all kinds of good dishes, and when the husband is satisfied, some
foodstuff is left, and that is taken by the wife. So similarly, a devotee of Kåñëa,
he does not take anything, does not accept anything, which is not offered to
Kåñëa. This is the process. Because his life is full of Kåñëa consciousness.
And Kåñëa says in the Bhagavad-gétä, you will find... Suppose if you want to
take things which have been eaten by Kåñëa, then you have to ask Kåñëa,
"What do You desire to eat, sir?" Suppose if you want me, to feed, give me
some foodstuff, naturally you ask me, "Swamiji, what sort of foodstuff you'll
like?" I have got experience here in your country. I was invited in Butler, here
also, by some churches, and they wanted to give me some food. So they asked
me, "Swamiji, what do you desire to eat?" So I told them, "I eat... I am strictly
vegetarian. I shall accept fruits and milk. That's all." Similarly, if anyone invites
somebody, it is natural that the guest is asked what sort of foodstuff he would
like.
Similarly, Kåñëa, if you want to offer something Kåñëa, you must know what
sort of foodstuff He wants.

* * * * * * * *

Bhaya means fearfulness. Because we are afraid. Either English or France or

German, everyone is afraid. Just like a dog is afraid whether another dog is
coming, so the so-called civilized men, they are also afraid. "Whether
Englishmen are coming to attack? Whether Germany...? Therefore there must
be atomic bomb. I shall throw. Therefore you must give me tax." These things
are simply the trying to solve the problems of fearfulness. That's all. Defense.
So this fearfulness is there in the dog, in the hog, in the small sparrow bird,
everywhere.
You have seen the sparrow bird. As soon as one, they land, want to eat
something, like this, like this. He's afraid. "Is not somebody coming to kill me?"
That's all. Everywhere. In the aquatic also. Everyone is afraid for life. But Kåñëa
has given them different types of defensive measures. It is learned from the
çästra that the fish, they can, by the waves of the water, they can understand
that "Few miles away there is enemy." They can understand. And they become
immediately defensive, how to protect. Because this is struggle for existence. I
want to eat you; you want to eat me. Jivo jévasya jévanam. This is going on. So
everyone is afraid. Everyone is taking defense.
Even tiger is also afraid. Do you know that? Tiger is also. Tiger has become
very powerful animal. Everyone is afraid of. He can catch anyone and kill him
and eat him. Unfortunately he does not get the opportunity of catching anyone.
The tiger cannot eat every day very nicely. He gets once in a week a chance or
once in a fortnight a chance to capture an animal. Therefore he kills and keeps
it for eating daily. It is not that... Just like you are getting daily Bhagavat-
prasädam, nice dish. Nobody is supplying to tiger. Nobody is going to tiger's
front: "Sir, kindly kill me and eat me." No. Nobody's going. Everyone has got to
2
struggle. Na hi suptasya siàhasya praviçanti mukhe mågaù. This is the
statement. This material world is so made that even the lion, if he keeps
himself sleeping... Because lion is considered to be the king of the forest. So if
he thinks that "I am the king of the forest. So why shall I work? Let me sleep,
and my eating animals will come and enter into my mouth..." No. You have to
struggle. You have to struggle. You have to find out.
Therefore this energy is called karma-saàjïänyä. This... There are many
energies of Kåñëa. Paräsya çaktir vividhaiva çrüyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65,
purport]. But learned scholars, they have divided into three: the spiritual
energy, the marginal energy, and the material energy. Avidyä-karma-saàjïänyä
tåtéya-çaktir iñyate. So here this material world, either you become a tiger,
either you become Lord Brahmä or you become a small ant, you have to
struggle for your existence. This is material world. You cannot think that "I shall
be happy without any working."
People are trying to do that, that... When a man get some money, bank
balance, he no more works. But that is the tendency, that "Without working, I
shall maintain myself happily." That is our tendency. Änanda-mayo 'bhyäsät.
Vedänta-sütra says. Because our tendency is to enjoy life, but we do not know
where to enjoy, how to enjoy. And that is called illusion. We are trying to enjoy
life in this material world, where there is no enjoyment. There is no enjoyment.
Repeatedly çästra says. Kåñëa says, duùkhälayam açäçvatam: [Bg. 8.15] "This
place is simply for miserable condition of life." Duùkhälayam açäçvatam: [Bg.
8.15] "And still, it is temporary."
Even if you think, "All right, there are so many miserable conditions. Never
mind. Let me adjust and live here permanently," oh, no, that will also not be
allowed. Temporary. You may decorate your Paris city. Napoleon tried and
other tried. But you cannot live here, sir. You have to go out. But these rascals,
they do not understand. They are decorating, decorating. "Tax. Give more tax.
Give more tax. Let us decorate." But how you'll... How long you shall live in this
decorated city? Even if you live, if you are so much lover, great nationalist of
the country, suppose next life you get the... Because when one has very much
attraction for a certain land, then he again takes birth in that land, so if you
take your birth not as human being or as a cat and dog or a cow, then you'll be
sent to the slaughterhouse. Then what is the use of your becoming nationalist?
Your men, for whom you have worked so hard, next life, if you take your birth
as a cow, the same men will send you to the slaughterhouse. But these rascals,
they do not know what is the mystery.
* * * * * *

So apadäni, those living entities which cannot move, they are food for the
catuñ-padäm, those who have got four legs. Just like cows, goats and others.
Phalgüni mahatäà tatra. Those who are weak, they are foodstuff for the strong.
Phalgüni mahatäà tatra jévo jévasya jévanam. In this way, one living entity is
food for the another.
Then these animal killers, they may not be encouraged, "So then we are doing
nice, because one living entity is food for another. So we are eating every,
anything. Any moving animals we can eat. Bird, beast, goats, cows, horse, ass,
whatever is available." Yes, you can eat. But that is the natural law for the
animals and uncivilized man, not for the civilized man. Because one living
entity is food for another living entity, you cannot eat your father, mother or
children. Why? Because you are human being, you have got discrimination.
Of course, in the human form of life, in Africa, they are cannibals. They eat
their grandfather as a feast. They make a feast. And, you will be not surprised,
they like to eat white man. Yes. In some parts of the Africa, they, whenever
they get opportunity to kidnap a white man, they like to eat very much.
(laughter)

3
So although the nature's law is like that, one animal or one living entity is the
foodstuff for another, but that should be, there should be discrimination. So so
far we are concerned, Kåñëa conscious men, we are not animals. We are
perfect beings. We don't eat any living entity.
Those who are lower grade living entities, there... This is the struggle. One
living entity is the food for another living entity. That is lower grade life. In the
higher grade life, no, they cannot kill anyone for eating purposes. Therefore in
the Bible the First Commandment is "Thou shalt not kill." But all these
Christians, they are violating the First Commandment. That is their business.
Simply engaged in killing, big, big slaughterhouse.
And they give the example that "Others are eating vegetable, that is also
killing." Yes, that is also killing. But that I have already explained, that because
one living entity is foodstuff for another living entity, that does not mean you
shall eat your family members or any human being. No, there must be
discrimination. But so far we are concerned, we are not killing anybody for
eating purposes. We are eating kåñëa-prasäda, foodstuff which is offered to
Kåñëa and then we eat. The remnants of foodstuff we eat.

* * * * * *

jévo jévasya jévanam. That we also accept. But just like jévo jévasya jévanam,
then why don't you eat your own son? He is also jéva. Why do you
discriminate? Therefore discrimination is the better part valor. We should know,
we are also eating the vegetables. What kind of jéva, living entity we shall eat,
that is to be discriminated. Not that because one living entity is food for
another living entity, it does not mean I shall eat my own son. I am father. We
do not do that. Because we use our discrimination.
Similarly, in the human form of life there should be discrimination. We have to
eat. We have to eat. Discrimination means (indistinct), that what kind of food I
shall eat. Suppose the hogs, they eat stool. Does it mean because the stool is
also food, I shall eat that? That is discrimination. If you say that everything is
food, then why don't you eat stool? One man's food, another man's poison.
That is... What is to be eaten, what is not to be eaten, that is discrimination.
Now our discrimination is, because human life is meant for becoming God
conscious, Kåñëa conscious, we have to act in God consciousness. We have
taken vow that we shall eat the remnants of foodstuff, prasäda, from Kåñëa.
Now, what Kåñëa wants? Kåñëa says patraà puñpaà phalaà toyaà yo me
bhaktyä prayacchati [Bg. 9.26]. Kåñëa says "Give Me vegetable, water."
"Anyone who offers Me in devotion." So we have to eat Kåñëa prasädam.
Although animals are meant for eating by the man. That is stated in the
(indistinct). Ahastäni sahastänäm apadäni catuñ-padäm. Ahastäni, they haven't
got hands(?). Ahastäni. (indistinct) sahastänäm, they are food of the human
being. So ahastäni sahastänäm apadäni catuñ-padäm. Just like the creepers,
grass, and vegetables. Catuñ-padäm. They're food for the four-legged. Phalgüni
jévo jévasya jévanam.
So, in this way, there is order that one life is meant eaten by another. That is
nature's law. But we should use discrimination what kind of foodstuff, what kind
of living entities we shall eat. That Kåñëa... (?). We have taken vow to eat only
Kåñëa's prasädam. There is something. Whatever Kåñëa orders. So that is a
fact that each and every living entity is meant for another living entity for
eating. When we get human form of life, the animals, they, just like, another
eat vegetables. Similarly, the cows. Nature's law is there. Although one animal
is meant for by another these animals, they use their discrimination by nature's
law. Tigers will never come to your garden to eat fruits and vegetables. No. By
nature, they have got teeth and jaws to kill another animal. They want to eat,
drink blood, fresh blood. Nature has given them all the provisions for that.
Similarly, we human beings, this is scientific. Our teeth are meant for eating
4
fruits. That is one Dr. Cooney, in your Germany. He said that... And actually, if
you eat fruits and milk, you will have never any kind of sickness. That's a fact.
So they're also life.

* * * * * * *

Pradyumna: "The general mass of people, unless they are trained

systematically for a higher standard of life in spiritual values, are no better
than the animals, and in this verse they have particularly been put on the level
of dogs, hogs, camels and asses. Modern university education practically
prepares one to acquire a doggish mentality to accept the service of a greater
master.
Like a dog, after finishing his so-called education, the so-called educated
persons move from door to door with applications for some service, and mostly
they are driven away, informed of no vacancy. As the dogs are negligible
animals and serve their master faithfully for bits of bread, similarly one serves
a master without sufficient rewards. Persons who have no discrimination in the
matter of foodstuff and who eat all sorts of rubbish are compared with the
hogs. Hogs are very much attached to eating stools. So the stool is a kind of
foodstuff for a particular type of animal. And even stones are eatables..."
Prabhupäda: This is very important. Why hog has been selected? The hog has
no discrimination. He is prepared to eat even stool. Therefore hog is selected.
So people are now eating anything, everything. So we have heard that in Korea
they eat cats, snakes, dogs. In other places also seen, anything. They have no
discrimination. No discrimination. Jévo jévasya jévanam. One living entity is the
source of vital strength for another living entity.
That is law. Just like we are vegetarians. We are vegetarian. We are also eating
some... Not killing, but eating. We are taking fruit. That means we are not
killing the tree. We are taking grains. We are not killing the cow. We are eating
milk, but we are not drinking the blood. Milk is nothing but blood of cow. But we
know the art, how to drink the blood of cow without killing. That is civilization.
That is civilization. Medically, they say the cow's blood or bull's blood is very
effective, and that is accepted. But you must know the art. It is the
arrangement of God that cow's milk... Cow's own milk, she does not drink. She
eats grass. That means God's arrangement is like that, that "Let the human
being drink the milk of cow, and the cow may eat grass." Because they haven't
got good brain... Foodstuffs should be given, nice foodstuff given, should be
given to the particular person for developing nice brain. Milk is a foodstuff
which can develop your finer tissues of the brain so that you can understand
higher philosophy.
And if you become blunt, and you eat meat by killing any animal, then how you
will understand? The finer tissues given in the human form of life for
understanding spiritual things... You cannot. Vinä paçughnät. Therefore
Parékñit Mahäräja says, vinä paçughnät. Nivåtta-tarñair upagéyamänäd
bhavauñadhäc chrotra-mano-'bhirämät uttamaçloka-guëänuvädät [SB 10.1.4].
Uttamaçloka, Kåñëa, guëänuvädät, glorifying His activities, who can be bereft
of this opportunity, vinä paçughnät, unless he is an animal killer? Unless he is
animal killer, nobody will deny to hear about Kåñëa. Because the animal killers,
they have lost their brain. But Caitanya Mahäprabhu's mercy is so great that
even who has lost his brain, he can be revived by hearing Hare Kåñëa mantra.
That is Caitanya Mahäprabhu's... Ceto-darpaëa-märjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12].
Yes, in this age everyone is fallen. But he can be, I mean to say, elevated to the
position of nice brain. How? By paraà vijayate çré-kåñëa-saìkértanam. Simply
by chanting. So in this age everyone is blunt-headed, animal-killer.

* * * * *
5
Prabhupäda: Yes. Just see. And he was persecuted, and still, he was kind. He
was kind. Still, he was praying to God that "These rascals are doing. They
cannot kill me, but they are thinking that I will be killed. So they are committing
offense." So this is toleration, and käruëikäù. Similarly, there are many
examples. Titikñavaù käruëikäù, and suhådaù sarva-dehinäm: [SB 3.25.21]
friend of all living entities. Lord Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." He never said
that... Now they are interpreting in a different way: "The animal has no soul,
and you can kill animals and keep slaughterhouse." So who is a Christian? I do
not know who is a Christian. They profess to be Christian. It is very difficult to
find out a true Christian who is strictly following the words of Lord Jesus Christ.
So he is a good example of sädhu. We therefore adore and offer our obeisances
to Lord Christ. Sädhu, example. Titikñavaù käruëikäù suhådaù sarva-dehinäm
[SB 3.25.21]. This is suhådaù, not that "My brother will be saved, my family will
be saved, and all others should be killed." That is not sädhu's qualification.
Sädhu's qualification is he is kind to everyone. It is not that if a human being is
killed, the killer is also killed. Why? Even a human being is killer of an animal,
he should be killed. That is called suhådaù sarva-dehinäm: friend to everyone.
Not that "Only the human being should be given protection, he is national, and
others animals and trees should not be given protection." No. That is imperfect
knowledge. National means one who has taken birth in that land. So do the
animals do not take their birth in the land? They are also national, but it is your
discriminating law that you are giving protection to the human being and not to
the animals. This is sinful activities. Therefore we say that "No meat-eating." If
we give up this meat-eating, then so many lifes of the poor animals will be
saved.
So that is sädhu, no meat-eating. Here you will find. In Kåñëa consciousness
movement you will find, nobody is meat-eating. Nobody is prepared to kill even
an ant, what to speak of big animal. They put argument that "You are
vegetarian, and you are also killing vegetable life." Of course, we are killing.
But we are not killing vegetables. First of all, vegetables are not killed. If I take
a fruit from the tree, the tree is not killed. Or if I take the grains from the plant,
before the grains are ripe the plant dies. So actually there is no question of
killing. Although the law is, nature's law is that "One living entity is the food for
another living entity." Jévo jévasya jévanam. But a human being should be
discriminative. If I can live by eating fruits and grains and milk, why shall I kill
animal? This is human consciousness. Milk, if you get milk, you can prepare
hundreds of nice preparations, all full of vitamins and nourishing. In our New
Vrindaban we are maintaining cows and having so many nice preparations,
räbri and lagdu and this peòä and baraphi and sandeça and rasagullä and
yogurt—varieties enough. The other farmers they come, they are surprised,
that "Such nice preparation can be made from milk?" Yes, you do not know.
You do not know how to utilize the animal. Ignorance. The milk is also produced
out of the blood.
So it is intelligence. You are drinking the blood in a different way, produced by
nature with more vitamin values and more taste and more gentleman. Why
should you kill one cow and try to drink the blood? The blood is there already,
but in a different form, without any violence. And we have seen it. It is practical
experience that if the cows are assured they would not be killed, they will give
you double milk. That we have experience. And it is stated in the Çrémad-
Bhägavatam that siñicuù... We have not got here the verse. The purport is that
during Mahäräja Yudhiñöhira's time, the cows were so happy and jubilant that
from their milk bag always drop milk, so that the pasturing ground became
muddy with milk.

* * * * * * *

6
He said, "My dear boys, this human form of life," ayaà deha, this body... Näyaà
deho deha-bhäjäm. Everyone has got body. The Brahmä has got body and the
small insect, it has got also body. The spirit soul is encaged in this material
body. So lower than human being up to the animals, there are so many forms
of life. Jalajä nava-lakñäëi sthävarä lakña-viàçati. In this way, varieties of life.
But Åñabhadeva said, "Now you have got this human form of life, don't spoil it
like the hogs and dogs simply by sense gratification." Sense gratification is
available by the hogs and dogs also. That was the instruction of Åñabhadeva.
And what is the duty of human life? Tapo, tapasya. Tapasya. Voluntarily
accepting some inconvenience. That is called tapasya. Generally, we want loke
vyaväyämiña-madya-sevä nityasta jantu. Jantu, when one is not on the
platform of spiritual understanding, they are called jantu. Jantu means anyone
who has got life. The cats and dogs, they have also got life. So loke, in this
material world, vyaväya ämiña madya sevä. Vyaväya means sex indulgence,
sex life. And ämiña means meat, fish, egg-eating. Ämiña. Therefore vegetarian
diet is called nirämiña, not ämiña. So it is general tendency of the living being
to become ämiña, to eat meat. That is the general laws of nature. Jévo jévasya
jévanam. One living entity is the life for another living entity. Ahastäni
sahastänäm. There are animals, two-legged animals, and there are four-legged
animals. The four-legged animals is the food for the two-legged animals. So
long we remain as animals, then there is the necessity of eating meat. Ahastäni
sahastänäm. Hasta means hands. So those who are living like animals, only two
legs. The other animals, four legs, and here is an animal of two legs, dvipad-
paçu. For them, the animal is eatable, ämiña-madya sevä. And drinking wine,
or intoxication, and vyaväya, sex life. Loke vyaväyämiña-madya sevayä
nityastu jantu. So long he is jantu, these things are required. Pravåttir eñä
bhütänäà nivåttis tu mahä-phalä. That is general tendency. But when one gives
up voluntarily for higher status of life, that is called nivåtti-märga. Pravåtti-
märga and nivåtti-märga. Pravåtti-märga means to fulfill these desires, ämiña
vyaväya madya sevä. But when one is trained up to give up these habits, that
is called nirvrtti-märga. So we have got so many pravåttis, inclinations. But
when you voluntarily give up all these nonsense habits, that is called nivåtti-
märga and tapasya.

* * * * * *
Prabhupäda: Well, that also accepted in the Vedic philosophy, jévo jévasya
jévanam. One life is, one living being is food for another living being. But that
does not mean that you shall kill your son and eat, and it will be supported by
the society. That is discrimination, that is conscience. You can say that "I must
eat some, another living entity. That is by nature's law. So I produce my
children and I kill them and I eat them so that the population problem will be
solved." You can say that. Will you be accepted? So therefore there must be
discrimination. That you have to eat another living being, that is nature's law,
but if you eat fruit, you don't kill the tree. You take the fruit. If you eat
vegetables, you take, still it is growing, and that is a factually not killing. But if
you eat animals, you are killing. Actually he is being dead. So things should be
done intelligently so that... The word is to make the best use of a bad bargain.
So our philosophy is that although you can take that, although it is not killing, it
is taking fruits, flowers and vegetables, it is taking from him, it is not killing,
and we are offering to Kåñëa and so if there is any responsibility, it is Kåñëa's
responsibility. We take the prasäda. Therefore we have no such responsibility
and that is stated in the Bhagavad-gétä, bhuïjate te tv agham päpä ye pacanty
ätma-käraëät [Bg. 3.13]. Anyone who is cooking for himself, he is taking all
responsibility for sinful activity even if he is a vegetarian, it doesn't matter.
Yajïa-çiñöäçinaù santo mucyante sarva-kilbiñaiù. But if he takes the remnants
of yajïa—we are offering Kåñëa daily—this is performing yajïa. So we are taking
the remnants of yajïa. This is our philosophy. We are not taking directly. If I
take directly, either a vegetarian or non-vegetarian, then I become responsible.

7
Sinful. This is our philosophy. The law is there, but we have to tackle things
very intelligently.

* * * * *