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A guide to self reliant living

RELOADING .410 BORE SHOTSHELLS

Tuning the Ruger

Charger Pistol [OK, now you don't have to make your own all-brass .410 hulls. Midway has 2 1/2" hulls
already made! But I will not delete the information below because you may have to make
Survival your own in the future.]
Reloading
Magtech Shotshell Hulls 410 Bore 2-1/2" Brass Box of 25
Bug-out-Bag
(BOB) Tips and See below for more information from a reader of this page. Annealing.
Tricks
See also Survival Reloading and Using Lyman 310 Tong Tools for Reloading
Survival
Reloading
Long term reloading of .410's means using all-brass cases. That requires more knowledge
Bug-out-Bag and skill, but the brass cases will last virtually forever. Extremely sturdy brass cases can
(BOB) Tips and be made from .303 British cases, .444 Marlin brass, or for full length 3" cases, 9.3 x 74R
Tricks brass can be used. First the empty cases should be annealed, then fireformed with 8.0
grains of Herco and a case full of Cream of Wheat (load single shot, straight up, then fire).
SITE INDEX The Cream of Wheat will blow the case walls straight, including the shoulder and neck,
PREPARATIONS resulting in a straight sided all brass case.

1. Food For reference, the base diameter of factory .410's is 0.469", and the rim diameter is
0.524". .444 Marlin cases are straight walled and can be used as .410 brass without the
2. Manna need for fireforming, but have the penalty of a 2.162" case length. The base diameter of
Meals the .444 Marlin is 0.469", whereas the .303 British has a base diameter of 0.458". The rim
diameter is smaller with the .444 Marlin - 0.514" instead of the 0530" rim diameter of the
3. Water
.303 British - so it is theoretically possible that a really loose extractor might not catch the
4. Sanitation rim. The 9.3 x 74R European brass has a base diameter of 0.465", a rim diameter of
0.524, and an overall length of 3.47". The rim thickness (headspace) of the 9.3 x 74R,
5. Medical, however, can be a tight fit in minimum .410 bore shotgun chambers, and may need to be
health thinned before use. Obviously we're only talking a few hundreds or thousands of an inch
6. Kerosene
differences here, but it is a complication not taken with abandon.
heaters and
cookers Let me digress a little. By now you are wondering why the cases mentioned above all have
essentially the same base diameter. The reason is the cost of the draw dies when the
7. Lighting cases were designed and originally manufactured. In 1869, when the .44 S & W American
was designed, draw dies for making brass were very expensive, so they were used for
8. Wood other cartridges as the need arose. In 1870, Smith & Wesson developed the .44 Russian -
cooking and
heating so manufacturers used the same draw dies. When development work was underway in the
early 1890's on the .303 British and .30-40 Krag, again those same draw dies were used
9. Communi- to form the longer rifle cases. Then in 1907 came the .44 Special, etc. In the finishing
cations process, of course, rims of different diameter and thickness could turned, so the .30-40
Krag rim is 0.540" in diameter, as opposed to the 0.530" rim diameter on the .303 British.
10. Essential
Tools
Shotshell cases were originally drawn brass, not paper or plastic. The base diameter of
.410 shotshells is 0.469" and the rim diameter 0.524"...not surprising that brass cases will
11. Home work, as they were made with essentially the same draw dies!
built items
For single shot shotguns, an all-brass case made by fireforming .303 British brass seldom
12. Electrical; requires resizing, needing only a new primer before reloading. The resulting case is 2.25"
generators in overall length. As shotshell length is measured as fired, a 2 " .410 case actually
and power
measures 2 1/4" when loaded....the same as the all brass shell made from a .303 British
13. War case! Wonder of wonders. Like it was meant to be. Actually, it was, as you will see.
preparedness Occasional sizing may be needed, and can be performed using a .44 Special size die and
a .303 British shell holder. Heck, I knew a geezer who sized only the top 5/8" or so of the
14. Gardening brass with an old .30-40 Krag sizer die! He had an oversize chamber, so it made sense to
use the seater die instead of the actual size die, as the brass was worked less and lasted
SITE INDEX
longer. With strong, thick walled rifle cases designed for 38,000 PSI or more, only the top
Miles Stair's third of the case expands at the 12,000 to 14,000 PSI working pressures of .410 shotgun
SURVIVAL loads.
SHOP
Tubular magazine shotguns like the Mossberg HS410 and Winchester 9410 need a slight
HOME crimp in the case mouth and mild sizing for reliable feeding, which can easily be done with
RADIATION
a .44 Special/Magnum crimp die (or .444 Marlin) with the bullet seater insert removed.
INDEX & JET
STREAM Shotgun primers are actually pistol primers minus the anvil, the rest of the shotgun primer
assembly actually being a Berdan primer-type holder. In the 1950's and 60's, it was
PROPHECY common practice for shotgun reloaders to simply replace the primer in the assembly, and
Cascade (CCI) made primers without anvils just for that purpose - I still have some - but it
COMMENTARY was tedious work. When loading brass cases for use in the .410 bore shotgun, pistol
BY MILES
primers should be used. It all has to do with the pressure generated by the loads and the

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BOOKLETS BY designed impact of the firing pin: pistol primers are designed to ignite with only 6 to 9
MILES pounds of impact, and resist pressures only half that of rifle primers.
GUEST
SUBMISSIONS
A powder charge of 8.0 grains of Herco under to 5/8 ounce of shot will work well. Card
wads are needed over the powder and the shot column, and felt wads are needed over the
PHOTO INDEX powder wad. These wads can be cut from thick felt or solid cardstock using a home made
punch. A 300 H & H case can be sized in a .44 Special seater die deep enough to create
LINKS about 3/8" of straight wall on the side of the case. Cut the case at the top of the straight
section, then again just above the solid web at the base of the case. Sharpen the outside
SITE INDEX of the case mouth with a deburring tool, leaving the inside edge straight. Card stock is
then placed on a relatively soft but flat surface, like a piece of truck inner tube on a kitchen
Miles Stair's
SURVIVAL cutting board, to protect the cutting edge of the home made wad cutter. Use a rubber
SHOP hammer on the top of the card cutter, and disks of the correct diameter will be cut perfectly.

The card wads should be left "dry," but felt undershot wads should be lubricated to reduce
leading in the barrel. There are nice commercial products available for this, or you can
soak the felt wads in a 50-50 mix of melted beeswax and Vaseline, then let them cool and
dry on paper.

Wad pressure is a controversial subject. Of more importance is seating resistance, where

the top wad is sealed firmly enough to enhance pressure buildup before releasing. The old
way, when all brass cases were the norm, was to put 8 to 10 drops of waterglass (also
called "egg keep") on the top wad. In an emergency, use what you have, such as Elmer s
glue, and clean the barrel more often.

Obviously, the height of the load within an all brass case depends upon the thickness of
the felt wads used, but the actual height doesn t matter much, really, as long as the top
wad is securely sealed. This is a total departure from loading recommendations for plastic
shotshell cases, but all brass cases don t need internal support for stability of the top
folding or roll crimp, as there isn t one. As long as you weigh (or measure) the powder
charge and shot charge, the thickness of the felt wads is not that critical. Of course you
can experiment and add of subtract felt wads to reach the top of the case if you want too,
just as it is possible to cut plastic strips (similar in thickness to gallon milk jugs or bleach
bottles) to surround the shot column inside the case to reduce lead shot scrubbing against
the barrel.

Making shot is not hard: making it round and uniform is very tricky. Drop melted lead
through a sieve into water and you have made shot. Teardrop shapes, odd sizes, but it is
shot. Dropped from a considerable height through a chimney (or stove pipe) into water
makes the shot more uniform in diameter, but in emergency situations may not be worth
the trouble. Patterns with home made shot are usually twice as large as with nice, round
commercial shot, but it works!

Simulated "buckshot" can even be made using .225" to .309" light weight cast bullets or
round balls by using split shot sinker molds. The resulting "buckshot" does not have a
great pattern, but does have greater penetration than smaller shot. When loading, the
"buckshot" column should be buffered with Cream of Wheat filler or coarsely ground wheat
to reduce leading and provide feed for more birds. For a really devastating load, use split
shot crimped over strong monofilament, so the buckshot is essentially tied together with a
two inch or so separation.

Bullet molds from left: Hensley & Gibbs with 4 cavities of 180 grain
bullets for .44 Special (#271, my design); two Lee molds; a Lachmiller
mold for .45 ACP; and a Hensley & Gibbs with two cavities of 158 grain
SWC .358" (#73BB) and two cavities of 210 grain .430" bullets
(#271BB, my design) for the .44 Magnum. There wasn't room in the
photo for all my Lyman single cavity rifle molds.

Of course I recommend having reloading tools and bullet molds for all of your rifle and handgun
cartridges. You may not be able to get jacketed bullets, but if you have the primers, powder and a
bullet mold, your rifle, pistol, revolver and shotgun can still work in hard times.

My booklet, Survival Reloading, has reloading tables for virtually every cartridge you might ever
encounter, for both cast and jacketed bullets. Order here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

COMMENTS FROM A READER!

Brass shells come in two basic flavors:

1) Extruded -- which is the "old" way of making them. These are (relatively) cheap; but, reloading
them is a bit of an art (as I am sure you know!). Apparently, one needs to know the proper wad
sizings (or make their own as described on your page) because the case wall is thinner than today's
plastic (or yesterday's paper) shells and standard wad sizes will not fit. 12 gauge, for example,
typically requires an 11 gauge "under shot" wad and a 10 gauge over shot wad to work properly.

2) Lathe-turned -- these shells are a bit "spendy" [20 three-inch (my interest) .410 shells are about
$60] but have the advantage of matching the inner diameters of the plastic & paper shells. This
makes it possible for one to use all of the "modern" components -- except for needing an over-shot
card; or, one can load black powder & traditional wadding; or, one can mix & match as needed. See
http://www.rockymountaincartridge.com/page7.html for sample pricing; better (read "cheaper")
sources may be available.

If you visit the Rocky Mountain Cartridge site, check out the

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http://www.rockymountaincartridge.com/page10.html page -- the best part of that page, I think, is
where they mention Duco Cement as the over shot wad glue...

Unless one is "into" making their own wads as per your procedure,
http://www.circlefly.com/html/bp_cartridges.html seems to be a great place to find components.
Even if one wants to make his own for self-sufficiency purposes, a sample order or two might save
tyros like me a lot of time getting the materials and sizes "right."

Finally, I tumbled to most of this stuff by reading the posts at

http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?goto=lastpost&t=24643 -- for what it is worth.

If you do decide to edit your pages to include the "factory-available" brass shells, please DON'T
removed the information on fire-forming, et cetera. As I said, it looks like it would be interesting to
try some of your techniques & I'd hate to see the information get "lost" because there's a
commercial product available.

Sincerely, Larry P, 4.12.08

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

QUESTIONS FROM READERS OF THIS PAGE

QUESTION: DEANE. I HAVE QUESTION ABOUT THE ANNEALING PROCESS.

PRECISELY HOW DO YOU ACCOMPLISH THAT? ARE YOU SIMPLY IMMERSING THE
DE-CAPPED .303 CASES IN MOLTEN LEAD AND THEN QUENCHING THEM WITH COLD
WATER? HOW MUCH OF THE CASE DO YOU HEAT?

I CAN RECALL YEARS AGO IN MONTANA, WE USED TO STAND OUR CASES IN A CAKE
PAN OF WATER AND HEAT THE CASE MOUTHS ONE AT A TIME WITH A PROPANE
TORCH. WHEN THEY WERE HOT, WE TIPPED THEM OVER. IS THIS BASICALLY WHAT
YOU'RE UP TO?

ANSWER: I anneal all my brass in hot lead. Wheelweight alloy (89 lead, 1 tin, 10 antimony)
melts at 619 F. The reason for using lead for annealing is to keep the temperature low enough for
proper annealing AND have uniform annealing, and that is simply not possible using the torch
method. With the propane torch, you stand the cases upright in a pan of water, heat the shoulder and
neck, and when it glows the case is tipped over into the water. The case is heated on one side more
than the other, and in falling over into the water, one side is quenched before the other side.

I use primed cases, using fired primers, as that forms an airlock that keeps lead from entering the
case. Then I dip the case mouth (and about a half inch below the shoulder) down into the molten
lead for about a count of two, pull it up out of the lead, tap on the side of the case to remove any
bits of lead (if the lead is really sticking, the case isn't annealed!), then drop it mouth down
(straight) into a 3 pound coffee can mostly full of ice water. I have another can with ice cubes, and
every 10 rounds or so I add a few ice cubes to keep the water cool. I don't use gloves, as if the case
head I'm holding got hot enough to require gloves, I would be annealing the case head and primer
pocket too -- bad news.

Usually I don't tell people about this method because they may not be mentally organized. Water
and molten lead do not mix, and I worry about the liability angle I don t assume any liability
because people can t follow directions properly. Being left handed, I have the cases on the right
side, the lead in the middle, and the ice water on the left. The cases go only one direction -- to the
left -- and I use only one hand. Because it only takes a few seconds per case, I can anneal hundreds
of cases in an hour with this method.

Over three decades ago I experimented with various methods of annealing brass, including the torch
method. The reason was that I was that I was making brass as a commercial reloader specializing in
obsolete and wildcat cartridges. I needed the cases to last, and fireforming had to be easy and
reliable. I made a lot of 7 mm Weatherby out of anything belted, from 375 H & H on down to 300
Win Mag, and that entailed actually reducing the body diameter/taper to that of the 300 H & H case,
trimming to 2.555", inside neck reaming, then fireforming with 15 grains of Herco and a case of
Cream of Wheat. Same thing with 7 mm Ackley Improved and the various Gibbs cartridges made
from 30-06 brass (with 10 or 12 grains of Herco depending upon case volume) -- fireforming was a
must.

In my trails, annealing in lead gave the best results. But I know of one dude who dropped an ice
cube into the lead pot and got himself (and everything close) covered with a thin film of hot lead, so
I hesitate to tell just anyone about this method.

ANNEAL AT YOUR OWN RISK!

--------------------

QUESTION: Dave: Being a bit lazy, I was looking for an easier shell to form that the 303.
Taking a look at the 405 Win, I think most of the work is already done.

ANSWER: I looked at the .405 Win, and Hornady does make it again, but I don't think it would
work without some extra work. The rim diameter of the .405 Win is 0.543", whereas the rim
diameter of .410's is 0.524". As you know, the rim is countersunk into the rear face of the chamber,
and .303 Br with a rim diameter of 0.530" is about maximum to fit the rim recess in my three
.410's...ergo, the rims of the .405 Win would have to be filed down. True, the .405 Win has a case
length of 2.58", but .410, 2 1/2" shells are only 2.25 OAL, only being .2 1/2" when the crimp is
opened. So the extra length doesn't gain much. Nice try! Good idea, but .444 Marlin cases are
probably better if you don't want to fireform.

QUESTION: Dave: My point being this Brass would load 410 x 2.5 virgin right out of the box.
Now my question is, if I decided to size it and load it with 45 Win bullets, as the pistol is riffled,

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what charge would you recommend. For that matter I could load it like a shot shell, that just has a
heavier slug, wads and all?

ANSWER: Won't work right out of the box because of the rim diameter. But if loaded with
0.454" bullets of 250 grain weight, a load of 12.5 grains of Herco would be about maximum....410's
are NOT strong actions.

QUESTION: Dave: I found your Herco burned at ~59% Bullseye. If I wanted to load it as a
metallic cartridge, would I go with a slower burn rate or a faster one?

ANSWER: On a burning rate chart where Bullseye is 1 and H-4831 is 100, Herco is 15. It burns
in about 9 inches, is a very bulky powder, so it is about ideal when loading a huge capacity case
with a small amount of powder. 2400 is too slow for your 9" barrel (burning rate about 22), and
Unique is too dense, burns too hot (temperature), and burns too fast (10 on the burning rate chart).
Bullseye is way to fast burning for anything but plinker loads. So we're back to Herco as being the
right burning rate, bulky to help fill the case, and has a very predictable pressure curve, so I would
stick with Herco and simply load a .45 Colt load but in the longer case. A little Dacron fluff (steal
from a pillow) will hold the powder against the primer as well as cushion the base of the soft lead,
plain base bullet. Right...NOT a jacketed bullet, but a cast bullet, as the pressure limitation imposed
by the action itself mitigates for cast bullets over jacketed bullets with full loads.

QUESTION: Dave: Of course I could just be committing suicide too.. hehe.

ANSWER: Nah. Just take it easy and use loads designed for OLD .45 Colt revolvers, and you
should be OK. There are loads on the Internet for .454 Magnums based on the .45 Colt solid head
case, but the revolvers that fire them weigh more than a .410 shotgun and have twice as much steel
around the chamber area as a .410 shotgun. Those magnum loads generate up to 54,000 PSI,
whereas the .410 shotgun is designed for about 14,000 PSI chamber pressures. There is no way you
can duplicate a .454 Magnum load in a "normal" .410 shotgun without going into orbit.

QUESTION: From Richard. Thank you so much for your very informative web Site. I found it a
pleasure to read I have a New England Firearms .410/.45 Colt. It is a rifled 3 slugger. I have
successfully made some nice .45 Colt Magnum rounds. But I am WANTING MORE ..HEHEH I am
having trouble finding 9.3x74R cases so I can use a full 3 or at least 2.75 of the chamber I know
from your report that a .444 Marlin and the .303 Brit will work, but those are still a bit short Any
other ideas??? Or maybe suppliers of the 9.3 s Also can the 9.3 s cases withstand the pressures that I
may be putting on it My round of choice is a 240 JHP if that helps, but may be willing to try
something in the 300 gr range if I can find some good hard cast lead

ANSWER: You have a top break, single shot action designed in the 1890's as a maritime 10 gauge
line throwing gun. With modern steel and heat treating techniques, it will take pressures of 50,000
PSI, however, the pressures should be reasonably limited to about 42 to 45,000 PSI to keep the
action from getting loose. The 9.3 x 74R case was designed to approximate 375 H&H flanged
ballistics in a rimmed case for drillings, so that brass can take MORE pressure than your rifle can
handle! But that isn't the problem.

You want, I think, to duplicate .444 Marlin ballistics in your .410/45 Colt. The best powders for the
.454" expansion ratio of your bore are in the medium burning rates, NOT the bulky slower burning
rate powders, so you most likely would be using 4198, 4320 or 4895 (heaviest bullets), and there is
more than enough case capacity in a .444 Marlin case to achieve the ballistics you want. The 2.162"
length of the case is not a problem for holding enough powder, and the powders mentioned, even
being double based, have sufficient deterrent coating to not cause any appreciable chamber erosion,
so using the shorter case would not harm your rifle's chamber, and the cases do not need much
alteration of the rim to fit the rim recess in your rifle. The 9.3 x 74R rim is both a larger diameter
AND thicker (headspace), so it needs more alteration. I'd go with the .444 or .303 cases, in my
opinion.

Of more significance is the primer pressure limitation. No matter what the load INSIDE the case, a
.45 Colt case is designed with a shallower primer pocket for large pistol primers. Those primers
only take 6 to 9 lbs of pressure to ignite because the cup is thinner, BUT that thinner cup limits your
pressures to well under 50,000 PSI or the firing pin indentation will blow through. The .303 or .444
Marlin cases are designed to accept the deeper large rifle primers, which take 12 to 15 lbs of
striking force to ignite, and can handle pressures to at least 60,000 PSI.

Given that your rifle will produce enough energy to reliably ignite rifle primers, and you are going
to be using rifle powders, I'd be inclined to use the readily available .303 or .444 Marlin cases and
STANDARD (not magnum!) large rifle primers.

You also have very shallow rifling, and that mitigates AGAINST cast bullets, even hard cast bullets.
You also need to consider bullet expansion at the velocities you will be achieving, and that means
using 240 to 300 grain bullets with thick jackets designed for upwards of 2,000 FPS, NOT the thin
jacketed bullets designed to expand at 1350 to 1500 FPS in the .45 Colt or even the .454 Casull. I
really hate to write this, as I'm a cast bullet fan from way back. I use them exclusively in my 1881
.303 Martini (at 2415 FPS!) and even use them in my 7mm Wby Mag. But I've got .004" rifling in
those barrels, and you do not have that in the New England SS, so cast bullets would not generally
give very good accuracy. Sorry.

QUESTION: How do I bell the case mouth, or remove a dent, without having a special belling
die? And what is the least expensive way to decap cases?

ANSWER: If you have to round out the mouth of bent cases, or perhaps even to slightly bell the
case mouth for removing a previous crimp that is not completely blown out on firing, use a .30-06
case. It has a shoulder diameter of 0.441 to 0.447", and a shoulder angle of 17 degrees. Fill the case
with melted lead for weight and to add inner strength so the shoulder has enough strength to last for
years. Place the case base down on a solid surface, put the belling tool in the case mouth, and rap
gently with a light hammer.

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I took a 30-06 case, ran it into a .280 die to 1/8" from the shoulder to neck it down to .284"
(ID), then ran it into a .270 Win die 1/4", then filled it with lead. I use that case for belling
the mouths of cases for loading cast bullets with my portable reloading kit. It will bell 7mm
cases, .30 caliber cases, and .44 cases, the first "step" for 7mm created by the .270 die, the
.30 caliber "step" created by the 7mm die, and the shoulder/case body for .44 - 45 case
mouths. I built that belling tool in the 1960's - 40 years ago - and it still works perfectly.
The least expensive decapping tool is a military primer decapping rod, shown at left.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

NOTE: Obviously I believe that everyone interested in survival should have reloading and bullet
casting equipment and supplies, plus reloading data for every cartridge normally encountered.
Keeping your own rifles and handguns working - as well as those of your neighbors - would be an
obvious advantage in most any survival scenario. Full power loads are not needed for this purpose.
Cast bullets at moderate velocities would be just fine, and far better than nothing at all! See
Survival Reloading.

Survival Reloading by Miles Stair:

Keep your rifles and handguns shooting with properly reloaded ammunition using portable
reloading equipment. Includes tool selection, adaptable shell holders, and complete reloading
data for virtually every caliber, including cast bullet loads -- all with only three different
smokeless powders for ease of storage and versatility. Twenty four pages.
[Note: The focus of this booklet is very specific - Survival Reloading. I make no attempt to list max loads for every
caliber with every powder - you can get that from any reloading manual. I do list loads for virtually every cartridge
manufactured in the past 120 years, including many long obsolete, for both jacketed and cast bullets with only 3
powders: 4985, Herco and Red Dot.]

A little nostalgia for long time reloaders. Nosler only produced bullets in Ashland, OR for a few
months in the late 1940's before moving to Bend, OR. Winchester made the high pressure 9mm's
for submachine guns only for the military 50 years ago. The Barnes bullet box on the right was
from one of his first lots of bullets, well over 40 years ago.

Site Index
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson

FIREARMS REFRESHER COURSE

1. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

2. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.
3. Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.
4. If guns are outlawed, can we use swords?
5. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.
6. Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.
7. If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.
8. Those who trade liberty for security have neither.
9. The United States Constitution (c)1791. All Rights Reserved.
10. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?
11. The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.
12. 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.
13. Guns only have two enemies; rust and politicians.
14. Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.
15. You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.
16. 911: Government sponsored Dial-a-Prayer.
17. Assault is a behavior, not a device.
18. Criminals love gun control; it makes their jobs safer.

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19. If guns cause crime, then matches cause arson.
20. Only a government that is afraid of its citizens tries to control them.
21. You have only the rights you are willing to fight for.
22. Enforce the gun control laws we ALREADY have; don't make more.
23. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves.
24. The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control.

IF YOU AGREE, PASS THIS "REFRESHER" ON TO TEN FREE CITIZENS.

"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a drug

dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."

IF YOU DON'T STAND BEHIND OUR TROOPS, PLEASE, FEEL FREE TO STAND IN FRONT
OF THEM !!!

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