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!la m Inat lon by Mr . Sne lton . . . . S
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DllPOIITION '1'.,.,.,11: 01,1%1.1.01\1'
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The oul "-politi .. n of TIIIIlU CU I Ll.Cllty ..as
above- ent ltl . CI cau". pun,, "nt to thl toll .... I"II
ltipulation •• ",", [ on Ch..yl ........ bl •• e<::1l. at the cHien
o f lIu<lel • ~,.,.c"" .u •• 2 11 hU " ... piqu e. J enn l nql.
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70Se .
" CHERYl. \/'ENABLE
113 Fanny Street
L.afa~t!8 , loulWn8 10503

1 APPEARANces •
, ST IPULA TIONS

3 SHelTON LAW FlAM ,

4
(ey: T H OMAS ROeERT SHELTON, ESQ . )
1326 West Plnh~~k R~ad, S ... lte 200
P.O. Dr.wer 525 ~ 8
, It Is hereby stipulated .nd .greed by 'nd
S
II
U , f' yett e , LA 70505

FOR JOH NNIE 1. GU NTE R

•
5
b.tween coun$o l for the r e5pec t lv e p.rtles thllt the
deposition of T ER RI E GUILLORY be taken p urs uant to

7
BORNE a WilKES , t. t.P .
•
1
Not ice of T .k ln .. DepO $ ltlon f ~ r .1I purp~U$ U

. ... thorI1od by ttle Lo ... I,I.na Code o f Civil

a ( 8Y: JOHN F . WI LKES, I II, ESQ .)

II
200 Wes t C~n .. reu St r eet. S ... Ite 1 000
P . O. Box ·4 305
L.fayotto, LA 70502- 4 305
,• Procedure.
It Is furth e r stipulated . nd .greed by . nd
10 10 between counsol fo , the rosp e c t lve p. r tlll , and by
FOR LAKE A RTH UR POLICE DEPARTMENT

"
12 USRY, W EE KS a MATTHEWS
"
12
th e wltnen, th.t the rl.d ln g and Ilgn lnll of Ihl
d e polil io n by the wltnln Ih .1I be waived.
(8Y: FReD SCHR OED ER , ESQ .)
13
,.
1615 Poydru Street. S ... lte 1250
N ow Orl •• nt, LA 10112 ,." All fo rmalities In connection w ith the tak ing
o f u ld depos il lon , Inc luding u . lln g .nd
FOR 'EFfeRSON DAV IS PARISH 15 cl r tl flcallon, Ire hereby w.lved, ' XClpt for thl
15 SHER I Ff'S OFFICE
16 r ld uctlon o f the queltlonl and answers t o

"
"
ALSO PRE S ENT :

CH i ef C HER YL VINCE NT
.." typew , ltlng b y th e court reporler .
All obJecllons, ex c epi ' 5 t o I he form of the
HI 1'111. . CHARLES BRYANT
" queilio n .n d non r e,ponSlVe "O I I of the an l wer, .re

" "
21
hlfoby reu r vld unt il the Ume o f tho trill olthl.
C.UI. _

"
21 "
" REPORTED 8Y: CHERYL VE N ABL E , CCR
"
24

1'- " " CHERYl VENABLE

"" 113 Fanny StrtoeI

c,,,,~~___________~11~
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 UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT52

.. 5
1 Q Old you ever go Into the military?
7

1 TERRIE GUIUORY,
2 After having been first duly sworn, was examined and did 2 A No, sir.
3 testify as follows: 3 Q Have you ever been In the National Guard or any

4 EXAMINATION 4 reserve components of the military?

5 BY MR. SHELTON: 5 A No, sir.

-' 6
7
Q
A
Tell me your full name, please.
My name Is Terrie James Guillory.
6 Q
7 A
Never?
Never.
8 Q And where do you live? 8 Q Now, after you finished with your high school and
9 A Lake Arthur, Louisiana, 302 New Orleans Avenue. 9 you went to work for these two retail outlets and
10 Q How long have you lived there? 10 you came to Jennings, who was your chief officer
11 A Three years. I've lived In Lake Arthur pretty much 11 that supervised you here?
12 all of my life. 12 A At the Jennings Police Department, the chief was
13 Q Let's go back. What Is your date of birth? 13 Carrol Morgan.
14 A 8/7/70. 14 Q And what year was that?
15 Q And what schools did you attend? 15 A 1988.
16 A I graduated from Lake Arthur High School. I've 16 Q And the first bit of training that you had Inside
17 been to post - Louisiana Post certlfled Academy In 17 of that employment was what?
18 Lake Charles. I've been to several - I went to a 18 A Jennings Police Department Reserve Academy.
19 bunch of schools Involving law enforcement while I 19 Q Where was that?
20 worked for the Jennings Police Department and the 20 A At the Jennings Police Department In Jennings.
21 Jeff Davis Sherlrrs OffIce. 21 Q Who taught you what?
22 Q Let's go back to high school. What grade did you 22 A I don't remember who was teaching the dass back
23 make In high school? 23 then.
24 A Twelfth grade. 24 Q What kind of class was It?
25 Q And you graduated from twelfth grade? 25 A It's a basic law enforcement training academy.
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
LafayeUe, Louisiana 70508 Lafayette. Louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639
6 8
1 A Yes. I got a GED In the twelfth grade. I made all 1 Q And how long did It last?
2 twelve years, but I didn't graduate with my dass. 2 A I'm not too sure. Six weeks, I think, at the most.
3 I got aGED. 3 Q Was It a dedicated eight-hour day six weeks or just
4 Q And what year was that? 4 an hour or two a day for --
5 A '88. 5 A It was -- I want to say three hours twice a week.
6 Q And after that what did you first do as a form of 6 Q Three hours twice a week, and the rest of the time
7 employment? 7 was spend on normal work duties, correct?
8 A You want my first job I ever had? 8 A Yes.
9 Q Yes. 9 Q And you started out as patrolman?
10 A I worked In a Wlnn Dixie when I was flfteen. 10 A I started off In the Jail as a jailer.
11 Q Doing what? 11 Q How long did you do that?
12 A Stock boy. Then I went to work for Piggly Wiggly 12 A Three months, four months.
13 when I was seventeen, assistant manager. I stayed 13 Q How big was the Jail?
14 there until August of '88, and I went to work for 14 A A thirty-man jail.
15 Jennings Police Department. 15 Q How many people normally occupied the jail?
16 Q And did you have to file an application with the 16 A Thirty to forty.
17 Jennings Police Department? 17 Q And then you went from Jailer to beIng what?
18 A Yes, sir. 18 A A patrolman.
19 Q And at that time, did you have to have any special 19 Q How did that come about?
20 training or schooling to go to work for the 20 A An opening came up In patrol. The chief asked me
21 Jennings Police Department? 21 It I wanted to move from the jail to patrol. I
22 A No, sir. 22 took the scheduled civil service Job. I took It.

_. 23 Q
24
25 A
As of that particular time, had you been In the
military?
No, sir.
CHERYL VENABLE
23
24
25
Q
A
Q
And did you have to take a test?
I had to take a civil service test.
Where did you take that?
CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, Louisiana 70508 Lafayette, Louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5839
03/09/200911.57.40 AM Page 5 to 8 of 147 2 of 52 sheets
 UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT52

, 1 A I don't remember. I think It was In Lake Charles,

9
1 sure no.
11

2 louisiana, but I couldn't •• I don't remember. 2 Q So during the entire period of time from '88 until

3 Q And for that test, did you have to have any 3 '97 In your employment with the Jennings Police
4 schooling? 4 Department, there were no complaints made against

5 A I had to have a high school diploma or GED to be 5 you for anything?

"-" 6
7 Q
qualified to take the test.
So you didn't have to take any specialized training
6
7 Q
A That I can remember, no, sir.
Was there any personnel action taken by the

8 before you took the test to become a patrolman; Is 8 department?

9 that correct? 9 A None that I can recall.
10 A That's correct. 10 Q Were you ever the subject of any type of Internal
11 Q So then you become a patrolman? 11 affairs Investigation?
12 A Yes, sir. 12 A No. I know for sure that I was not.
13 Q And how long did you remain a patrolman? 13 Q Were you ever asked to partldpate In an Internal
14 A I stayed there until 1997. 14 Investigation, Internal affairs Investigation?
15 Q And what type of patrolling did you do? 15 A No.
16 A Basic patrol and law enforcement. 16 Q Were there any Investigations that were conducted
17 Q Automobile patrol -- 17 where you were part of the Investigatory body?
18 A Yes. 18 A None.
19 Q -- or foot patrol or blcyde patrol? 19 Q I'm talking about against fellow police officers.
20 A Automobile patrol. 20 A Yes, sir. No.
21 Q With somebody else? 21 Q So up to the time that you terminated your
22 A Sometimes. I mean, we patrolled with a two-man 22 employment ..
23 unit sometimes and Single units. It all depends 23 (BRIEF INTERRUPTION)
24 what was on the shift that day. 24 MR. SHELTON: (CONllNUING)
25 Q Now, when you quit being a patrolman, what did you 25 Q So during the entire time you were with the
CHERYL VENABlE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street " 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, louisiana 70508 Lafayette, LOUisiana 70508
(337) 234·5639 (337) 234-5639

...... "

1 then do?
10
1 Jennings Police Department, you never partlclpated
12

2 A I quit Jennings Police Department and came to work 2 In an Investigation of a fellow officer; Is that
3 for Jeff Davis Sheriff's OffIce as patrolman. 3 correct?
4 Q In 19977 4 A Correct.
5 A Yes, sir. 5 Q Old you ever graduate beyond patrolman while In the
6 Q Why did you quit the Jennings Police Department? 6 employ of the Jennings Police Department Into
7 A To come to the sheriff's office because I lived In 7 another category?
8 Lake Arthur at the time, and It was a parish Job. 8 A No, sir. They only got detective division and
9 I took a parish unit home, more money. 9 administration division. I didn't go to either one
10 Q Was there any disagreements that you had with 10 of those.
11 anyone at the Jennings Police Department that 11 Q Now, did you ever take any particularized schooling
12 caused you to terminate your employment there? 12 while you were a patrolman?
13 A None at all. 13 A Yes.
14 Q And the chief at the time that you terminated at 14 Q Where did you go for that?
15 Jennings was who? 15 A Several places. I really couldn't remember all of
16 A Dalton Joseph. 16 the classes. I mean, I can remember a bunch of
17 Q And was that the same chief you started with? 17 stuff.
18 A No, sir. That's a different chief. 18 Q Well, try to tell me what you remember.
19 Q Who was the first chief? 19 A Let's see. Basic patrol procedures.
20 A Carrol Morgan was the first chief. Then we had 20 Q Where was that?
21 Steve Taylor and Dalton Joseph. 21 A I couldn't tell you. It's been a long time. Most
22 Q NOW, during that period of time, did you have any 22 probably It's going to be Lake Charles or
23 type of complaints registered against your 23 Lafayette. Mostly In Lake Charles. We had - Lake
24 activities as a pOliceman? 24 Charles has an academy there. We'd go get a lot of
25 A None that I can remember or recall. I'm pretty 2S training from them. OWl training, Intoxllyzer
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, louisiana 70508 Lafayette, louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639
3 of S2 sheets Page 9 to 12 of 147 03/09/2009 11:57:40 AM
 UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT52

, training. That's a machine used for testing people

13
1 Q What was his position then?
15
1
2 who are Intoxicated. Domestic abuse training, 2 A Sheriff.
3 battered women's training. I really can·t remember 3 Q How long has he been sheriff?

4 anything else. There's II bunch. 4 A I believe sixteen years.

5 Q And who taught the domestic abuse training? 5 Q Had he Just become sheriff when you were hired?

6 A I don't remember. 6 A No. I think he was there at least a whole term, Dr

7 Q Where was It taught? 7 he was In his term.
8 A I think It was Calcasleu Training Academy. 8 Q Now, what were yeu hired for?
9 Q And that was durfng the time you were with 9 A Patrol.
10 Jennings? 10 Q And did you have to take any type of test?
11 A Yes, sir. 11 A No, sir.
12 Q Old you have any type of dynamic scenarfos that 12 Q Old you have to undergo any type of qualifying
13 were Involved In that particular training? 13 examination prior to your employment?
14 A I don't think so. 14 A No, sir. No, sir.
15 Q Just discussion and talk about It? 15 Q Old yeu have to undergo any type of drug testing?
16 A Yes, sir. 16 A We did have to go get a physical. I believe we do.
17 Q And at any time were you given any kind of 17 They do the test, yes.
18 Instruction as to the constitutional guarantees 18 Q What doctor did you go to?
19 that were Incumbent upon you as an officer relative 19 A I'm bad with names. I know the doctor. I Just
20 to citizenry? 20 can't think of It right now.
21 A I would Imagine so. I Just don't remember exactly 21 Q The coroner here?
22 the classes Involved. 22 A No, sir. It was a doctor, local doctor, In
23 Q Were you given some books about It? 23 Jennings. I can't remember his name. He does all
24 A I'm pretty sure we were given paperwork about It, 24 of the drug tests or physicals for hiring of the
25 not books. 25 Jeff Davis Sheriff's OffIce since I've been hired.
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette. Louisiana 70508 Lafayette. Louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639

-- 1 Q
2
When you were at the Jennings Police Department, .
did you ever see a manual that was given to you by
14
1 Q
2 A
Dr. Hargroder?
Yes, sir, that's him.
16

3 the Jennings Police Department concerning 3 Q And when you went to Dr. Hargroder, did he question
4 procedures? 4 you about certain things?
5 A Yes. 5 A No, sir.
6 Q Do you have a copy of that? 6 Q Old he question you about your lifestyle?
7 A No, sir. 7 A No,sl,.
8 Q You left that with the police department? 8 Q Old you fill out any paperwork at Dr. Hargroder's
9 A I believe they handed you a manual. You'd read It 9 office?
10 and return It back to them and sign some paper. 10 A I don't remember. I don't think so.
11 Q Old you have to take a test on that manual? 11 Q Old Dr. Hargrcder Inquire Into your general health?
12 A No, sir. 12 A He did a physical, ves.
13 Q Do you remember whether or not that manual at that 13 Q Old he ask you for a history of your health?
14 time had any particular type of training with 14 A No, Sir, not that I can remember.
15 regard to confrontations? 15 Q He just examined you physically?
16 A No, sir, I don't remember. 16 A Yes, sir.
17 Q So then you go to the Jennings Police Department -- 17 Q Maybe you gave him something In a bottle, a urine
18 I mean from the Jennings Police Department to the 18 sample?
19 Jennings Sheriff's Office? 19 A I believe I did.
20 A Yes, sl,. 20 Q Old he take a blood sample?
21 MR. SCHROEDER: Jeff DaviS. 21 A No, sir.
22 A Jeff Davis. 22 Q So you go to work as a patrolman for the
23 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 23 Jennings -- Jeff Davis Parish --
24 Q Jeff Davis Parish. NOW, who hired you? 24 A Yes, sir.
25 A Sheriff Ricky Edwards. 25 Q -- Sheriff's Office. And who Is your supervisor?
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, Louisiana 70508 Lafayette. Louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639
03/09/2009 11.57.40 AM Page 13 to 16 of 147 4 of 52 sheets
 ,
UNCERTIF ED ROUGH DAAFT52

t
. 17
1 Q And then after that you became a supervIsOr?
19

1 A I worked for the left Davis sheriff, Ricky Edward..

2 My supervisor on patrol at the time was Carl 2 A I'm sorry. No. I became supervisor and stayed

3 D.shotel. And we were only a two-man shift, so he 3 supervisor that shift for maybe six months.

4 was above me. And my Immediate supervisor would be 4 Q Then what happened?

5 Chief Deputy Larry Dupuis. 5 A J moved over to detective division and became a
- .' 6 detective.
6 Q Are both of these men still with the Jeff Davis
7 Parish? 7 Q When did you become a detective, If you recall the
8 A Yos, sir. 8 date?
9 Q And how long were you a patrolman? 9 A I don't recall. Early -I'm sorry. Late '97,
10 A I stayed about three months, and then they moved me 10 early '98.
11 to supervisor for .hlft. 11 Q '8?
12 Q And during that three·month period of time, did you 12 A '98. Yeah, early '97 - J mean, late '97, early
13 attend any training academies? 13 '98.
14 A J don't believe so. 14 Q And what type of training did you have to undergo
15 Q And when you went to be a supervisor, did you have 15 to become a detectIVe?
16 to undertake any type of test or any type of 16 A We went to -- I went to soverallnvestlgatlon
17 training to become a supervisor? 17 schools tor Investigating criminal activity,
18 A No, sir. 18 Interrogation. That's about It.
19 Q And at that time, was your other Immediate 19 Q And where did you go for the schooling?
20 supervisor previously elevated to another position 20 A Several places. Out of state.
21 or put Into another capadty? 21 Q Can you name those places?
22 A NO, sir. He .tayed on that shift. 22 A No.
23 Q You Just were made a supervisor; Is that right? 23 Q You don't remember?
24 A I think somebody at the time had either quit or 24 A I don't remember.
25 maybe moved somewhere. There was an opening for a 25 Q Did you have to take any type of standardized test
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, louisiana 70508 Lafayette. louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639

-- 1
2 Q
supervisor, and they transferred me over.
So that was sometime In late '97 or early '98?
18
1
2 A
as a result of that training?
Yes.
20

3 A Y..,slr. 3 Q And where did you take that test?

4 Q So at that time, how many men did you have working 4 A Whatever the cia.... were, we took tests after tho
S under you? 5 periods of school, the dass.
8 A One. 6 Q Old you receive a diploma?
7 Q Who was that? 7 A Ye••
8 A I don't remember. 8 Q Do you stili have those diplomas?
9 Q Is he with the Jeff Davis -- 9 A I should have them In my personnel flle at the
10 A No, sir. 10 Sheriff's OffIce.
11 Q Is he with the Sheriff's Office? 11 Q But you don't remember where they were?
12 MR. SCHROEDER: If he doesn't remember who 12 A No, sir. There was .everal of them.
13 It was, It's going to be hard to answer 13 Q And you don't remember where you went?
14 that question. 14 A Exactly.
15 MR. SHELTON: Well, who knows? He might 15 Q Right?
16 know his face. He might not know his 16 A Right.
17 name. He might know his face. 17 Q Do you know anything dealing with c:onfrontatlonal
18 MR. SCHROEDER: Okay. 18 problems from the psychological pOint of view?
19 MR. SHELTON: (CON1lNUING) 19 A I don't recall laldng any cia .... like that except
20 Q But he's not there anymore? 20 maybe domestic battery classes.
21 A I don't think ther.·. any patrolmen there when I 21 Q So you have no Individualized traIning concernIng
22 was there. 22 confrontational psydlologlcal profiling or
23 Q So how long did you remain In that position as 23 confrontational psychological negotiations; Is that
24 patrolman? 24 correct?
25 A SIx month.. 25 A
---- CHERYL VENABLE
Right.
CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, louisiana 70508 Lafayette, louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5839
5 of 52 sheets Page 17 to 20 of 147 03/09/200911:57:40 AM
 UNCERTIfieD ROUGH DRAFT52

I
.. Q Do you know any person who Is denominated In this
21
1 A I don't think - I don't remember who actually
23
1
2 parish as a hostage negotiator? 2 handled that situation. I do know It was going to
3 A None. 3 be either a shertff's deputy or a Jennings police
4 Q Have you ever heard of anyone being used by this 4 officer, one of the many officers we had.
5 sheriff's office as a hostage negotiator? 5 Q But you don't remember who?
1'-" 6 A No.
6 A None.
7 Q And you know of no one In this parish that has ever 7 Q You all didn't call either one of the regions,
8 been held out as being a hostage negotiator? 8 Lafayette or Lake Charles, to send In a hostage
9 A None. 9 negotiator?
10 Q Have you ever heard that In this region of the 10 A I don't know of any of them.
11 louisiana State Police that there Is a hostage 11 Q Have you ever had a hostage negotiator come In from
12 negotiator? 12 any agency?
13 A I don't know none. 13 A I never heard of one, and we never had.
14 Q You've never heard of that? 14 Q Have you ever asked that there be one brought In
15 A I've never heard of It. 15 for a Situation?
16 Q And what region Is -- what State Police region? 16 A I don't know of none, no.
17 A Troop D. 17 Q The answer Is you have not?
18 Q And do you know where Troop Cis? 18 A I have not.
19 A No, sir. 19 Q You do know they exist?
20 Q Do you know where Troop I Is? 20 A Not around here that I know of.
21 A It'. In Lafayette. 21 Q Not around here?
22 Q Do you know about whether or not they have a 22 A Uh-huh (yes).
23 hostage negOtiator? 23 Q Now, Is there not a man who lives In this parish
24 A I don't know. 24 who Is known as a hostage negotiator?
25 Q Have you ever been Involved In a hostage Situation? 25 A Not that I know of.
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, Louisiana 70508 Lafayette, Louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639
22 24
~-
1 A I've been In a lot of situations. Yes, I have. 1 Q Not that you're aware of. Okay. NOW, how long
2 Q Where? 2 have you known Steven Gunter?
3 A We had one over here In Jennings, louisiana at the 3 A I've been knowing Steven at least twelve years.
4 apartments where a guy took his ex-girlfriend 4 Q How did you come to first know him?
5 hostage. I know there was a couple of others In 5 A Steven lived In the same town I live In.
6 the partsh, but I don't remember exactly where. I 6 Q At the time that Steven moved to Lake Arthur, I
7 remember that specifically. 7 presume you were living In Lake Arthur?
8 Q And do you know the names of the people Involved in 8 A Yes, sir.
9 that? 9 Q On what street were you living then?
10 A No. 10 A I want to say I was living on McClure Street In
11 Q When was that? 11 Lake Arthur when I first met Steve.
12 A Probably - It was after I came to work for the 12 Q And were you married at the time?
13 Sheriff's OffIce. It was after '97, before 2000. 13 A Yes.
14 Q So In that three-year period of time, there was 14 Q And what's your wife's name?
15 this first hostage situation that you know of, 15 A My ex-wlfe's name Is Paula Guillory.
16 rfght? 16 Q Malden name?
17 A I'm pretty sure there are a lot more besides that 17 A Guidry.
18 one, but I can remember that one. 18 Q And you're divorced from her now?
19 Q Now, what part did you playas a detective In that 19 A Yes, sir.
20 hostage negotiation that you Just referred to that 20 Q And are you remarried?
21 you recall? 21 A No, sir.
22 A My part In It was Just a standby deputy like 22 Q When did you divorce Miss Paula Guidry Guillory?
23 everybody else. 23 A Four years ago, three maybe.
24 Q Who was the hostage negotiator who handled that 24 Q How many children do you have?
r--- 25 situation? 25 A We have five.
CHERYl VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, Louisiana 70508 Lafayette. Louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639
03/09/200911.57.40 AM Page 21 to 24 or 147 6 of 52 sheets
 UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT52

, .
l ' Q Okay. Now, she lives where now?
25
1 arrested.
27

2 A She lives fn Jennings. 2 Q Let's talk about the first scene that you were on

3 Q She has custody of the five children? 3 when he was arrested.

4 A Four of them. 4 A I don't remember.
5 Q Do you remember what It was about?
--.' S Q
6 A
And you have custody of one, or one Is grown?
No. I have custody of one. 6
7
A
Q
No.
But you happened to be present?
7 Q Which one do you have?
8 A I have Jada. She's my slxteen-yea,..old daughter. S A Yes. I've been present at least twice - at least
9 Q Now, at the time that you met Steven Gunter, where 9 twlca where Steven was arrested, but I don't
10 was he employed? 10 remember not onca ha was arrested while I was
11 A 1 don't know. 1 don't think he was. 11 there, It was always after he was arrested.
12 Q When you first met him, what were the 12 Q J see.
13 drcumstances? 13 A He was always In the pollca car when I got there.
14 A Steven lived In the Town of Lake Arthur at one 14 Q Do you remember what the first arrest was about
15 time, and at that time he lived across the street 15 generally?
16 from my house on McClure Street at one time. 16 A No. I mean, probably either public drunk or
17 Q Was anyone living with him at that time? 17 domestic dfsturbance. I don't remember. Or maybe
18 A I do know there's someone living there. I don't 18 a drug possessfon, simple. I've never known Steven
19 know exactly who It fs. 19 to be - have a felony arrest that I know of.
20 Q Do you know a woman named Kathy Pettlfleld? 20 Q So It was either drinking, woman problems or, you
21 A I know her like that. I know her from Steven. 21 said, perhaps drug use?
22 Q Do you know that she lived with Steven for a while? 22 A Yes.
23 A I do know that. 23 Q But you yourself were never directly Involved In
24 Q During the period of time that you came to know 24 the arrest?
25 that she was living with Steve, did you have 25 A Right.
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
La~yeHe,LouhUana 70508 La~yeHe. louisiana 70508
(337) 234·5639 (337) 234-5639

1'-"' 28 28
1 occasion to see Steven socially? 1 Q You happened on the scene or arrived later alter
2 A Yes, 2 you had heard It was occurring; Is that correct?
3 Q And how did you come to see him socially? 3 A Yes, sir.
4 A He lived across the street from my house, and If we 4 Q On all of the occasions?
5 would be outside, J would meet Steven when he came 5 A Yes.
6 outside, He also came over to my house. When we 6 Q You ever know Steven to carry a weapon?
7 were cooking barbecue or whatever, he came over a 7 A No. No, sir.
8 couple of times and said, hi, whatever. 8 Q Have you ever seen Steven with a weapon?
9 Q Old you all have a few drinks together? 9 A No, sir.
10 A I drank beer In the same place as Steven, but he 10 Q Have you ever seen ••
11 never drank beer at my house. J've been to bars 11 MR. SCHROEDER: Walt. You're talking
12 before when Steven was In there and drank beer. 12 about other than the Inddent?
13 Q On how many occasions do you feel that you've been 13 MR. SHELTON: The question speaks for
14 In the bars with Steven? 14 Itself, Counselor.
15 A TwIce. 15 MR. SCHROEDER: Usten to his question.
16 Q And what bars were those? 16 MR. SHELTON: Let's let the record reflect
17 A American Legion Bar In Lake Arthur and Della's 17 that counsel Is coaching the witness.
18 Lounge In Lake Arthur. 18 MR. SCHROEDER: Well, I'm going to ••
19 Q And did you know what type of work Steven did? 19 MR. SHELTON: And Interfering In the
20 A No, sir, 20 deposition and that this Is Improper
21 Q Did you ever have any problems with Steven? 21 behavior for counsel to be engaged In. If
22 A As personal problems? 22 he has an objection to make, make the
23 Q Any kind of problems. 23 obJectlon. Otherwise, I will ask the
24 A Steven has been .rrested several times. I never 24 attorney not to Instruct the witness how
r-' 25 arrested him, but I was on the scene when he was 25 to respond.
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Lafayette, louisiana 70508 Lafayette, Louisiana 70508
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1. MR. SCHROEDER: I'm not Instructing the 1 A Three and a half years.
2 witness, and I -- 2 Q From what period of time to when?
3 MR. SHELTON: Well-- 3 A I can't remember exactly when I became warden. I
4 MR. SCHROEDER: -- resent the allegation, 4 believe It was three and a half years ago to the
5 but go ahead • 5 present, or It might have been four years to the
.........-..
6 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 6 present.
7 Q Let's talk about on the first arrest that you 7 Q Now, when you were the warden In the jail, what
8 arrived at. 8 were your duties?
9 A Okay. 9 MR. SCHROEDER: He Is the warden.
10 Q This Is what? Fifteen years ago, ten years ago? 10 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING)
11 A It had to have been In the last twelve years, 11 Q I'm sorry, When you started as the warden In the
12 Q In the last twelve years? 12 jail, what were your.duties?
13 A Uh-huh (yes). 13 A My duties as the warden of the Jail Is to supervise
14 Q Do you remember If It was In Lake Arthur or In 14 over ttie Jail, proceedings of the Jail, court
15 Jennings? 15 procedures Involving Inmates, transports,
16 A I don't remember. 16 overseeing the basic running of the Jail.
17 Q But you came upon the scene either dispatch-wise 17 Q Now, at the date and at the time that you became
18 or -- 18 warden, at that point -- that's about (our years
19 A Most probably, yes. I'm pretty sure that's how It 19 ago, you said?
20 happened. 20 A Yeah. Three and a half, four years.
21 Q Now, at the time that you arrived, could you 21 Q What brought that about?
22 describe the condition of Steven? 22 A The warden who was the warden retired.
23 A No, I could not. 23 Q Name?
24 Q Now, on the second occasion that you had occasion 24 A Wallace Simien. The sheriff came over to the
25 to run across Steven, do you know whether or not he 25 Investigation division said, "I want you to run the
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, louisiana 70508 Lafayette, louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639
30 32
1 was arrested (or any particular thing? 1 Jail." And the next day I was running the jail.
2 A I know he was arrested, but I don't know what for. 2 Q NOW, for that period of time from late '97, early
3 Q Do you know If he was taken to the Lake Arthur jail 3 '98, up to the time you became warden approximately
4 or to Jennings or the Jeff Davis jail? 4 200S or so, 2004, somewhere around there, you were
5 A I don't remember. 5 a detective?
6 Q You don't remember. And how long ago was that 6 A Yes, sir.
7 second offense? 7 Q And during that period of time, did you have any
8 A That was In the last twelve years. 8 particular training In what Is commonly called SWAT
9 Q Again without knowing when In the last twelve 9 maneuvers?
10 years; Is that right? 10 A We have had training. We have training, yes.
11 A Yes. 11 Q Who conducted the training and where?
12 Q And do you have any recollection of any other 12 A We do In-house training of the leff Davis Sheriff's
13 Incidents? 13 OffIce at the leff Davis Sheriff's Office,
14 A Yeah. There was a bunch of Incidents, but I really 14 Investigation division. Warren Gary Is our
15 couldn't be pInpointing Incidents, but yes, I have 15 training officer. We also have training with
16 other recolleetlons of him being arrested. 16 Louisiana State Probation and Parole out of Lake
17 Q Kindly tell me what you remember. 17 Charles, and I want to say Bo Sneed.
18 A I'm the warden of the parish jail, and steven has 18 Q And the Jeff Davis Parish Sheriff training on the
19 been booked In our parish jail while I was warden 19 SWAT, Mr. Gary, tell me about his qualifications.
20 within the last three and a half years. 20 A I don't know.
21 Q Do you know what tor? 21 Q How long have you known him?
22 A No. 22 A I've been knowing Warren thirty years - no.
23 Q Do you know how long Steven was In jail? 23 Twenty-five years.

._. 24
25 Q
A No.
How long were you the warden In the parish jail?
CHERYL VENABLE
24
25
Q
A
And he Is a deputy here?
Yes, sir•
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Lafayette, Louisiana 70508 Lafayette. louisiana 70508
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•
" l' Q And did you have a manual to study from? 1 THE WITNESS: I don't know If I can
2 A No, sir. 2 discuss that because of •• I don't know
3 Q When you went to those other schools, did they give 3 If ••
4 you a manual? 4 MR. SCHROEDER: Well, It's not ongoing
5 A No, sir, 5 anymore. We'll ao off the record a
' , -#'
6 Q Were you ever certified as a SWAT confrontational 6 second.
7 team member? 7 (DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD)
8 A No, sir. 8 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING)
9 Q IS anyone In Jeff Davis Parish so certified? 9 Q We're back on.
10 A I wouldn't know. 10 A Steven has given Information to the Jeff Davis
11 Q You've not heard that? 11 Sheriff's OffIce, narcotic Information. We have
12 A I have not heard that. 12 gathered Information on Staven from other
13 Q So you knew Steven Gunter from pollee business as 13 Informants.
14 well as social business because he lived across the 14 Q Now, during the period of time that you knew
15 street from you? 15 Steven, that twelve or fifteen years or whatever It
16 A Yes, sir. 16 was, was Steven always cooperative with you?
17 Q 00 you remember when Steven Gunter started dating 17 A You will have to give more detail on that. What
18 or going out with Kathy Petttfleld? 18 are you - cooperative as In what?
19 A No, slr. 19 Q Old he cooperate with you?
20 Q You never saw them together? 20 A If you're asking me If he's cooperated with me In
21 A I could not tell you what she looks like. I 21 the last - all the years I've known him, no.
22 probably do know her when I see her, but I 22 Q Tell me the Inddents he was not cooperative.
23 WOUldn't - If she walked In right now, I couldn't 23 A Steven was arrested, and I remember Steven being
24 tell you her name. I don't know her like that. 24 arrested several times where he has fought police
25 Q 00 you know where she wor1<s? 25 officers, where he was handcuffed In the back of
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, Louisiana 70508 Lafayette, Louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639

-- 1 A No.
34
1 the unit or at the sheriff - or at the police
36

2 Q Do you know where she lives? 2 department or the sheriff's office where he was
3 A No. 3 Intoxicated, Bnd he was very Irate. He was not
4 Q 50 you had no connection between you and your wife 4 cooperative.
5 and Ms. Pettlfleld and Steven; Is that correct? 5 Q I see. And were you present?
6 A Right. 6 A Yes.
7 Q NOW, at the time that you were a detective with the 7 Q Old you ask him to calm down or to behave or
8 Sheriffs Office here, at any time were you called 8 something like that?
9 out to Investigate Steven as a detective? 9 A Yes.
10 A I don't remember. 10 Q And did he?
11 Q 00 you have any recollection of ever having any 11 A At those times, no.
12 Intelligence Infonnatlon or any type of Infonnatlon 12 Q Sir?
13 from any pollee agency that required an 13 A At those times, no. Then sometimes he would.
14 Investigation of Steven Gunter? 14 Q Was he drinking?
15 A Yes, sir. 15 A Yeah, I'm pretty sure.
16 Q And would you tell us what It Is? 16 Q Old you all run blood tests or urine tests?
17 A We have had narcotic Information through the 17 A No. I don't remember. I didn't run nothing.
18 narcotic division on Staven. 18 Q But It appeared as though he was Intoxicated on
19 Q And who was that? 19 those occasions that you said that he was ••
20 A What's that? 20 A Intoxicated or Impaired on different occasions.
21 Q What narcotics officer? 21 Q Now, at the time that you did speak with him when
22 A Myself and Detective Danny Sanders, who at the time 22 he was Intoxicated or Impaired, did he seem to
23 was our Investigation dlvlslon at the Sheriff's 23 understand what you were saying, or was he not
24 OffIce. 24 understanding what you were saying?
1'-- 25 Q And what did you all discover? 25 A I Imagine - If you talk to somebody who Is
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113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, louisiana 70508 Lafayette, louiSiana 70508
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, .
1' Impaired, he was understanding as much as anybody
37
1 A Twelve to fifteen people.
39

2 Impaired would understand. 2 Q That's a shift proposition?

3 Q And, of course, that Is the point. You're not a 3 A That Is the whole Jail employees.
4 trained psychologist or psychiatrist to make a 4 Q And you all run two shifts or three shifts a day?
5 determination as to whether or not someone Is 5 A Two shifts II day.
'---' 6 understanding or not understanding; Is that 6 Q And you're the supervisor over the entire -- both
7 correct? 7 shifts, correct?
8 A Yes, sir. 8 A Yes.
9 Q You take them at face value as to the way In which 9 Q And I presume you have subsupervlsors Inside of
10 they are behaving? 10 each shift?
11 A I take people as I see face value. In my training 11 A Yes, sl,.
12 and experience, If someone Is acting In a manner 12 Q What's the longest period of time that you saw or
13 that's not normal, I take It as that. 13 that you know of that Steven Gunter spent In the
14 Q What does It mean when someone Is being very quiet? 14 parish jail?
15 A Very quiet means not saying much, just not saying 15 A I don't remember.
16 anything. 16 Q can you give us an approximation? And I'm calling
17 Q What does that mean to you as a trained officer? 17 for a guess from you. I'm not going to hold you to
18 A That's a question that I don't - I don't 18 a specific time.
19 understand what you're asking me. 19 A Three months to six months.
20 Q Well, If you come upon a person and he Is not being 20 Q And during that period of time, were there any
21 talkative and being very quiet and speaklng low, 21 reported Inddents or problems with Steven Gunter
22 what does that mean to you? 22 after he was Incarcerated?
23 A That means he's not talking, and he's being very 23 A I don't remember.
24 quiet. You're asking a question I can't answer. 24 Q Have you since the flllng of this lawsuit had an
25 Q As a patrolman, If you would have stopped me and 25 opportunity to go and check the records on Steven
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, Louisiana 70508 Lafayette, louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639

-- 1
2
when you talked to me and you asked me why are you
going 65 miles an hour and I would say, well, I'm
38
1
2 A
Gunter?
No.
40

3 just not feeling real good today, what conclusion 3 Q You have no Independent recollection of any
4 would you have reached If I was being very quiet 4 problems with Gunter while he was In Jail In the
5 and very nice? 5 last flve years?
6 A You're talking about right now? If I stop you now 6 A Since we're going to narrow It down to specifics, I
7 and you would say that, I would take It as you were 7 remember there Is some times that Steven caused
a being very quiet and calm. a problems In the jail at the time of his Immediate
9 Q Cooperative? 9 arrest.
10 A Yes. 10 Q At the time of the Immediate arrest?
11 Q Not being uncooperative? 11 A Yes.
12 A Right. 12 Q And you think perhaps at that time he may have been
13 Q And that Is as a result of your on-the-job 13 either Impaired or Intoxicated; Is that what you
14 training, or Is that as a result of some 14 said?
15 psychological training that you have at one of 15 A And sometimes he was just mad.
16 these academies? 16 Q And sometimes just mad?
17 A That's my personal experience In IIf. and law 17 A Yes.
18 enforcement. 18 Q Old you have an opportunity to talk to him about
19 Q And on-the-Job training or on-the-job experience? 19 why he was mad?
20 A Yes. 20 A No.
21 Q Now, let's talk about the time that you went from 21 Q You have nothing here today to tell us about why he
22 being a detective to being the warden. 22 said he was mad?
23 A Yes, sir. 23 A I didn't ask him. I'm assuming he was mad because
24 Q

--
In the Jail how many people do you have working 24 he was arrested.
25 with you? 25 Q And, of course, thal's a reaction that you see from
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l' a lot of people, I'm sure?
41
1 A I believe Steven has given narcotic Information on
43

2 A Yas. 2 Bruner before, and I believe there might have been

3 Q Is that to be expected? 3 some narcotic Information that came In on Bruner.
4 A It's •• 4 And I also heard that he was arrested for some kind
5 Q It's not unexpected; Is that right? 5 of child neglect from a previous child welfare

---- 6 A
7 Q
It'. not unexpected, yas.
NOW, alter he was In the jail for several days, dId
6
7
worker who spoke about him one time. That's aliI
can really tell you.
8 you ever have occasIon to recall any problems wIth 8 Q And today what can you tell us as to what you heard
9 hIm? 9 about Steven other than what you've already told us
10 A I don't recall any problems after - when he was a 10 about the IntoxIcation, the domestIc problems,
11 long period of time In Jail, no. 11 perhaps, and perhaps some personal drug use?
12 Q Old you ever have any complaInts made to you as the 12 A And you're asking me what I heard about his arrest?
13 warden that he had had problems wIth other Inmates 13 Q No, no. AnythIng else about him other than those
14 In the Jail? 14 three thIngs that you've told us about?
15 A Now that you mention that, I do remember - 15 A I heard a lot of stuff I can tell you.
16 something sticks In my mind, but I couldn't tell 16 Q Tell me.
17 you what It was. It could have been that he files 17 A That I've heard?
18 complaints on an Inmate or the jailer might have 18 Q Yeah.
19 filed a complaint on him with other Inmates, but I 19 A I've heard steven Is a compulsive liar.
20 don't remember what It was about. 20 Q From who?
21 Q And those complaInts usually concern themselves 21 A From a lot of people.
22 with theft between each other and/or fights or 22 Q Name them.
23 fusses, thIngs like that? 23 A Local people In this parish.
24 A Or one person from his town that he knows that they 24 Q Do you have any names?
25 don't get along. We try to separate these Inmates. 25 A No.
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette. louIsIana 70508 Lafayette. louIsIana 70508

_. 1 Q
(337) 234-5639

And do you know any parUcular person that Steven

42
1 Q
(337) 234-5639

You don't remember any of theIr names?

44

2 dId not get along with? 2 A No.

3 MR. SCHROEDER: Are we limitIng It to the 3 Q So compulsIve liar?
4 Jail? 4 A Uh-huh (yes).
5 MR. SHELTON: While In Jail, yes, sir. 5 Q What else have you heard?
6 A Oh, while In Jail? I don't remember anybody In 6 A I've heard he's a drug user.
7 particular. Maybe loe Bruner, who was a - I don't 7 Q From whom?
8 know who loe Bruner Is to him, but I know loe was 8 A People In general In this parish.
9 In Jail one time with him. One time they're 9 Q Any names?
10 friends; one time they're not. So I don't know. I 10 A Not offhand.
11 know - I believe I had separated them one time or 11 Q Next?
12 made sure they were separated. 12 A That he's a drunk.
13 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 13 Q From whom?
14 Q And describe Joe Bruner to us. 14 A From Just people In this parish.
15 A loe Bruner Is probably about five foot four, 15 Q The same answer?
16 blanda-headed, a goatee. That's the last time I 16 A Yes.
17 seen him. That might have been a year or two ago. 17 Q AnythIng else?
18 A wiry kind of fallow, a white male. 18 A He's a woman beater.
19 Q Do you remember what he was In jail for? 19 Q Woman beater from whom?
20 A No. 20 A People In this parish.
21 Q And he was In Jail for how long? Do you remember 21 Q Names?
22 that? 22 A lust - same answer.
23 A No. 23 Q Anything else?
24 Q Do you know anything about Bruner other than what 24 A That he fights with the pollee, and he brags about
25 you've told us here today? 25 It after he gets arrested, how many officers It
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1 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING)
47

1 took to arrest him.

2 Q From whom have you heard that? 2 Q The question concerned Itself with whether or not
3 A General people In the parish and from law 3 you believe In any of the typical religious beliefs
4 enforcement people In this parish. 4 In truth.
5 Q There's no one name you can tell me? 5 A Vou're asking me If I believe any religion that Is
----- 6 A All of this Information comes from Steven Gunter 6 known to me that I believe Is true?
7 was Involved In a pollee shooting, and people who 7 Q No. That teaches the value of truth.
8 know that I'm the one that shot him, that's what 8 A Vou're asking me if any religion who teaches truth?
9 they say. And this Is - 9 Vou're asking me If they tell - the religions tell
10 Q Do you have any names? 10 people to tell the truth or believe In the truth?
11 A No. 11 Q Yeah. Do you?
12 Q Is there any person that ever told you this? 12 MR. SOiROEDER: You can answer the
13 A Any of that stuff there? 13 question.
14 Q Yeah. 14 A I want to make sure I'm answering the question to
15 A A lot of people. 15 what you're asking. If you're asking me If a
16 Q Name one. 16 religion says that a person should always tell the
17 A I mean, I really couldn't give you names offhand 17 truth, do I believe that?
18 thinking of It. 18 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING)
19 Q What church do you belong to? 19 Q Yes.
20 A None. 20 A I don't know of any religion that says that.
21 Q Have you always been a non·church member? 21 Q You've taken an oath today to tell the truth?
22 A I have been In several churches. 22 A Ves.
23 Q What churches have you been In? 23 Q What Is your definition of the truth?
24 MR. SCHROEDER: I'm going to object to 24 A Under oath?
25 this line of questioning. You know, I've 25 Q Yes, sir.
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, louisiana 70508 Lafayette, louisiana 70508
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'- 1 allowed you to go Into his personal life,

46
1 A I believe that under oath means I have to tell the
48

2 but I don't think his religious 2 truth to the best of my ability and my know-how.
3 affiliation has anything to do with It. 3 Q Are you to tell all of the truth?
4 MR. SHELTON: I'll ask the question, and 4 A To my best ability and knOW-how.
5 If you Instruct him not to answer, that's 5 Q As to what you perceive to be the truttl, correct?
6 your right. 6 A Ves.
7 MR. SCHROEDER: I Instruct him not to 7 Q And It's a measure only for you and your
8 answer. 8 consdence, not against any other yardstick; Is
9 MR. SHELTON: Okay. 9 that right?
10 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 10 A Right.
11 Q How long have you not been a member of a church? 11 Q Now, you have told us here today about these things
12 MR. SOiROEDER: Same Instruction. 12 that you've heard about Gunter. Have you ever
13 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 13 heard any pOSitive things about Steven Gunter?
14 Q The church that you were a member of Initially, was 14 A I have heard some positive stuff about Steven.
15 It a Christian denomination? 15 Q Tell us what that Is.
16 MR. SCHROEDER: Any questions regarding 16 A I've heard Steven Gunter Is a good person when he's
17 religious affiliation •• I'll save you the 17 not drinking and on narcotics. I've heard that.
18 time .. I'm going to Instruct him not to 18 Q Anything else?
19 answer. 19 A I have heard that Steven Is a good worker when he
20 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 20 goes to work. I have heard that Steven Is a loyal
21 Q Do you believe In any precepts concemlng religious 21 friend. Let's see. I've heard Steven Is a caring
22 beliefs In truth? 22 person. I can't really give you anything else.
23 MR. SCHROEDER: You can answer It If you 23 People tell you a lot of stuff when they're talking
24 want to. 24 about someone.
-~ 25 A Ask me the question again. 25 Q Now, you told us eafiler that you've known Steven
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. for about twelve years?
49
1 '97 and you stayed that way until 2004, during that
51

2 A Yeah. 2 period of time, did you have occasion to obtain any

3 Q In the twelve years that you've known him, how many 3 type of training dealing with psychological
4 days do you think what you've heard concerned 4 studying --
5 MR, SOt ROEDER: Usten to his question.
'- 5
6
7
A
Q
Itself with things that were not positive?
I couldn't answer that.
But you know of two or three arrests, correct?
6
7
MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING)
Q -- psychological studying dealing with
8 A I've known - yeah. Four or flve maybe. I know he 8 confrontational Imprisonments or confrontational
9 was arrested more than once. 9 hostage situations?
10 Q I take your testimony as being correct, that you 10 A No.
11 know of at least two or three, and perhaps It may 11 Q Old you ever have to study any of those procedures
12 be four or flve, 12 In the procedure manual that the Jennings City
13 A Yes, sir. 13 Pollee had?
14 Q You know of one time In the jail that may have been 14 A No, not that I can remember.
15 three months to six months. 15 Q DI.d you ever have occasion to study that In the
16 A Yes. 16 parish?
17 Q Now, the rest of the time, the other eleven years 17 A No.
18 and a half or eleven years and nine months, he was 18 Q 00 you know If the parish has a pollee manual?
19 all right, right? 19 A I don't know of one.
20 A No. 20 Q You have never read it?
21 Q He wasn't all right? 21 A I have never read It.
22 A Because he was arrested In the last twelve years 22 Q Do you know If the parish has any type of policy
23 that I've known him through the twelve years. 23 that they have In a manual or In a pamphlet or In a
24 50- 24 booklet that concerns Itself with the proper method
25 Q But each time the arrest lasted for what, a day, 25 of handling dynamic situations?
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayetts, Louisiana 70508 Lafayetts. Louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639

"- 1
2
and then he was out?
50
1 A I don't know.
52

A Weeks, months. You're asking me - I don't know If 2 MR. SCHROEDER: I'm going to object to the
3 he was all right because - 3 vagueness of the question. I'm notsiJre
4 Q You know of more Incarcerations other than the 4 what dynamic refers to,
5 three- or six-month pertod that he had spent with 5 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING)
6 you In the jail? 6 Q I'U explain It for you, I'm talking about a
7 A I know of times he was arrested by Lake Arthur 7 dynamic situation where a person, say, Is In a home
8 Police Department and spent time In their Jail, and 8 and won't come out when asked to come out.
9 other times he was arrested and spend time In Jeff 9 A And you're asking me If I've read any paperwork
10 Davis Parish Jail. But I don't know how long a 10 from the Sheriff's OffIce for procedures on that?
11 time they are, and this went on through twelve 11 Q Yeah. What to do.
12 years. 12 A No.
13 Q I understand, 13 Q Have you been schooled In what to do with that?
14 A And you're asking me If he was all right during 14 A Not that I can recall.
15 them twelve years? 15 Q You know Chief Vincent?
16 Q Yeah, 16 A Yes, sir, I do.
17 A If you're asking me If I know that, I don't know 17 Q And how long have you known her?
18 that. 18 A I want to say twelve years.
19 Q But you do know that roughly 4,000 days or so that 19 Q And how old are you?
20 you can only address some type of Infraction of the 20 A Thlrty-elght.
21 law to a period of three to six months on one 21 Q And how long has Chief Vincent been the chief of
22 occasion and maybe four or five days or so on other 22 police In Lake Arthur?
23 occaSions, correct? 23 A I want to say twelve years. I could be wrong, but
24 A Exactly. 24 the sheriff had been sheriff for sixteen, and she
t-- 25 Q Now, when you went to become a detective back In 25 came In I think the term after him.
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113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayetts, Louisiana 70508 Lafayette, Louisiana 70508
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, • 1 gone to a particular course dealing with arrests
l' Q And who was the chief In Lake Arthur before?
2 A Michael Conner, 2 and searches and seizures, just to that?
3 Q Is he stili living? 3 A Yes, I know I have been to those dasses. I don't
4 A Yes. 4 know exactly where and what are they, but I do know

-- 5
6
7
Q

A
And did she run for reelection and defeat
Mr. Conner or defeat someone else?
I know she ran for chief three tJme and has won,
5
6
7
there should be certificates In my folder.
(DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD)
MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING)
8 but she never ran against Mr. Conner. 8 Q When you attended these dasses, were they subJea
9 Q Have you ever had occasion to ever go to any type 9 to examinations at the end?
10 of schooling with Chief Vincent? 10 A Yes, I'm pretty sure.
11 A I believe we went to a seminar at the fairgrounds 11 Q They were not Just lectures to you about what the
12 In Jennings, louIsiana. I'm trying to remember 12 law Is, but you also were tested on what the law
13 what It was on. I don't remember what It wa. on. 13 was?
14 Q One seminar? 14 A Yes, we were given tests.
15 A Yes. 15 Q Now, as part and parcel of those Instructions and
16 Q Do you know what Chief Vincent's training Is with 16 Instructive seminars, were there any type of
17 regard to police work? 17 dynamic scenarios where certain scenes and certain
18 A No, sir. 18 types of situations were acted out?
19 Q Have you ever had occasion to talk to Chief Vincent 19 A No.
20 about her training? 20 Q Have you ever been --
21 A No, .Ir. 21 A I'm sorry. Except for the basic training academy
22 Q Have you ever had occasion to speak to Chief 22 post certJflcatlon In Lake Charles, louisiana where
23 Vincent about what knowledge she has concerning 23 they do have those scenario trainings.
24 psychological profiling or psychological 24 Q That was at the very beginning of your training as
25 confrontational situations? 25 a Jennings police officer for the dty?
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, Louisiana 70508 Lafayette. Louisiana 70508

_. 1 A No, sir.
(337) 234-5639
54
1 A Yes.
(337) 234-5639
56

2 Q Now, what training have you had and what schooling 2 Q And that was many years ago?
3 dealing with the laws of arrest and searches and 3 A Yes.
4 seizures of homes? 4 Q Now, you haven't been back to any since then?
5 A Me? 5 MR. SCHROEDER: Back to any what?
6 Q Yes, sir. 6 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING)
7 A I've had basic law enforcement, reserve training 7 Q The actual dynamic scenarios showing the enactments
8 academy and basic law enforcement post certified 8 and reenactments and how to respond and how not to
9 training at the basic academy In Lake Charles. 9 respond?
10 I've had several trainings, schools, on 10 A Thl. Is done from a certJfled da_ teaching?
11 Investigation techniques. I've had a training 11 Q Yes, sir.
12 da.. on search warrants, procedures of typing and 12 A That'. what you're asking me?
13 making up search warrants. 13 Q First of all, that, yes.
14 Q You've taught the dBss? 14 A None since then.
15 A No. 15 Q Have you ever done some that's not certified?
16 Q You've had dasses? 16 A Yes.
17 A Yeah. 17 Q Where?
18 Q Old you ever go to any university training courses 18 A Jennings - I mean, the Jeff Davis Sheriff's
19 dealing with criminal law and procedures at either 19 Office, criminal Investigation dIvision, where we
20 ULL or NcNeese. 20 do the scenarios there. We have done also some In
21 A Yes. I've been to one, I want to say, at LSU years 21 the City of Jennings, several placa. Used to be
22 ago. I don't remember where or much about It. It 22 down the road here at an old school buildIng and at
23 23
_.
might have been LSUE. I don't even remember what Lake Charles In a buildIng. I don't know what It
24 It was about. 24 was, but It was set up by louisiana Probation and
25 Q So you have no Independent recollection of having 25 Parole. Several times.
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette. louisiana 70508 Lafayette, louisiana 70508
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1 MR. SCHROEDER: Guessing at what?
59
l' Q The schools here In this parish that you've been
2 to, were they accredited? 2 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING)
3 A In this parish, no. 3 Q At whether or not you heard of it at the academy.
4 Q The ones In Lake Charles, was It an accredited 4 A I've heard of It before, and I'm saying I heard It

-- 7
5
6
school for dynamic scenario reenactment?
MR. SCHROEDER: I think •• maybe J
misunderstood. I don't think he's saying 7
5
6
from the aeademy beeause we went over all Supreme
eases, Terry versus Ohio and all of those eases,
and I remember hearing that one. That's the only
8 there was schools. I think he said one of 8 place I can remember hearing that.
9 them was held at a school. 9 Q Now, since you have become a member the parish··
10 MR. SHELTON: I don't mean to Imply that 10 A Sheriff's Office?
11 they're actual schools. 11 Q Yes. •• as a patrolman, as a detective and as a
12 MR. SCHROEDER: Well, you're calling them 12 jailer, have you ever had occasion to go to any
13 schools. 13 schools where constitutional law was discussed with
14 MR. SHELTON: Well, he said he went to 14 regard to arrests and/or Illegal search and
15 these seminars, lectures, whatever he 15 seizure?
16 wants to call them. 16 A I believe so, but I can't answer that. I don't
17 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 17 know. I believe so, but I can't tell you If -
18 Q We can call them apples If you care to, but the 18 you're asking me If It was -- I've been to a bunch
19 fact of the matter Is what J'm trying to find out 19 of classes In twenty years, especially In the last
20 Is If these enactments were, In fact, put on by 20 twelve, from the Jeff Davis Sheriff's Offfce who
21 accredited associations? 21 sent me, but I couldn't really tell you what they
22 A The one at the academy, post academy, In Lake 22 are. I'd have to look.
23 Charles was set up by a post certified, and the 23 Q Does the Sheriff's Office have any type of regular
24 rest of them were set up by training officers of 24 set out type of seminar/schooling on an annual
25 the :Jeff Davis Sheriff's Office and Louisiana State 25 basis to teach the detectives and/or the police
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, Louisiana 70508 Lafayette, Louisiana 70508
(337) 234·5639 (337) 234·5639

-- 1 Police Probation and Parole, but no certlfleate.

58
1 members what the current constitutional law Is with
60

2 Q All right. Now, did you take part In those 2 regard to arrests and search and seizures?
3 enactments? 3 A The :Jeft Davis Sheriff's Offtce does not.
4 A Yes. 4 Q Do you have through the Jeff Davis Sheriff's OffIce
5 Q Were you scored on those responses? 5 any type of ability to go to these types of
6 A No. Well, the first one at the post academy, yes. 6 schools?
7 Q That was some twenty years ago? 7 A Ves.
a A Ves, sir. a Q Have you been to them?
9 Q Since that time anything? 9 A I believe I have.
10 A No. 10 Q Where and when in the last ten years?
11 Q Can you tell us what Is warranted with regard to 11 A In the last ten years, I can't tell you without
12 the use of deadly force when a misdemeanor has been 12 looking at my certificates.
13 committed In your presence? 13 Q You could not without looking at your certificates?
14 A No. 14 A No.
15 Q Can you tell us what the United States Supreme 15 Q Do you know If any of them were In the criminal
16 Court decision entitled Tennessee versus Gamer 16 justice program at UL In Lafayette?
17 tells you as a police officer? Can you? 17 A None.
18 A No. 18 Q Do you know If any of them were In the criminal
19 Q Have you ever heard of that case? 19 justice program at McNeese?
20 A Z've heard of It, yes, twenty years ago In the 20 A I don't know. I want to say no because I remember
21 academy. 21 doing some stuff at McNeese, but I don't remember
22 Q Are you sure of that? 22 what It was.
23 A No. 23 Q Anything In the criminal justice program in the
24 Q You're not sure of that? Am I to believe that 24
--
undergraduate or law school at LSU?
25 you're just guessing? 25 A I remember going to something at LSUE In the last
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, LouiSiana 70508 Lafayette. Louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639
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1 A That day there was for sure one detective unit
63
1 tan years. I don't remember what It was.
2 Q That was LSU In Eunice? 2 working, but he was working patrol.
3 A Yes, sir. 3 Q He was working what?
4 Q Anything at the FBI Academy? 4 A Patrol.
5 A None• 5 Q I see.
.-.---
6 Q Have you done any online studies? 6 A Or he was In the patrol capacfty.
7 A None. 7 Q And what's his name?
8 Q Or online university studies? 8 A Chad Romero.
9 A None. 9 Q NOW, on the day that this shooting took place, you
10 Q Any online police studies? 10 were living In Lake Arthur at the time?
11 A None. 11 A Yes. Yes, I was.
12 Q Now, with regard to the Lake Arthur Police 12 Q So when Is the first contact that you had that day
13 Department, how many members are In that department 13 with anyone from the Lake Arthur Police Department?
14 that you know of? 14 A Contact that I had? I actually spoke to lomebody
15 A I don't know. I know they have police officerS 15 or heard someone speak to me from Lake Arthur
16 that work there. I don't know. 16 Police Department Is when I arrived on the scene.
17 Q As a patrolman _. and you were a patrolman with the 17 Q At what time did you arrive?
18 parish -- did you receive dispatches of Information 18 A I don't remember.
19 or dispatch Inquiries from Lake Arthur Police 19 Q NOW, when you arrived on -- who dispatched you to
20 Department on an automatic radio band basis? 20 the scene?
21 A Are you asking me has Lake Arthur ever dispatched 21 A I was dlspllltched by the Jeff Davis Sheriff's Office
22 " metoacall? 22 dispatcher.
23 Q That's one part of It, yes, sir, but what I'm 23 Q And his name Is?
24 really asking you Is does your radio and your radio 24 A I don't remember.
25 frequency when you're on patrol, do you 25 Q At that time do you know who the dispatchers were?
CHERYl VENABLE CHERYl VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, louisiana 70508 Lafayette, louisiana 70508
(337) 234·5639 (337) 234-5639

"- 1 automatically pick up the Lake Arthur calls?

62
1 A I know two people who were dispatching. I don't
64

2 A When I was on patrol, yes. 2 know who was dispatching that day. Pam Qemon and
3 Q Do you know If any of that's stili the same? 3 Chris Gaspard I know for sure. I don't know If
4 A I do not know. 4 that's the only two.
5 Q Do you know any reason to believe It's not the 5 Q So where had you been that particular day prior to
6 same? 6 being dispatched to Lake Arthur?
7 A I do have reason to believe It's not the same. 7 A That day I was working patrol detail on Interstate
8 Q In other words, you don't think that Lake Arthur's 8 10 and In my patrol unit In full uniform.
9 calls are dispatched directly to your police band? 9 Q How were you dressed?
10 A I do not believe that. 10 A In full Sheriff's OffIce uniform.
11 Q Now, how many units, patrol units, does the shertff 11 Q And who were you working with on patrol?
12 have here In town? 12 A I was working traffic detail on Interstate - In my
13 A At one time or all In general? 13 own unit by myself. I know Detective Chad Romero
14 Q Let's talk about the time of this Inddent. 14 was working the same traffic detail, and I don't
15 MR. SCHROEDER: June of '071 15 remember who was on patrol besides - Brian House,
16 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 16 I know he was there. There was other people
17 Q June of 2007. 17 workIng that day. I know that. I don't know who.
18 A The date of June of 2007 there was at least four 18 Q You and Romero were working Interstate 101
19 patrols working that day up to at least - the most 19 A Yes, sir.
20 seven. 20 Q And House was somewhere In the parish?
21 (MR. WILKES LEAVES THE PROCEEDINGS) 21 A I know he was on patrol In the parish.
22 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 22 Q Now, no one was In your unit with you?
23 Q And how many detective units were there? 23 A No, sir.
24 A Working? 24 Q No one was In Romero's unit with him?
~ 25 Q Yeah. 25 A No, sir.
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, louisiana 70508 Lafayette, louisiana 70508
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.• Q So you get a dispatch to go to Lake Arthur. What
65
1 Q So you had given an audiotape?
67

2 did the dispatcher tell you? 2 A Yes.

3 A The dIspatcher came on the radIo and saId, Lake 3 Q Old you review any videotapes?
4 Arthur P.D. Is requesting assistance from the Jett 4 A None.
5 Davis Sheriffs DffIce on a barricaded - a person 5 Q Did you contact any other persons to discuss this

'-' 6
7
with a weapon who Is barricaded In his house, an
armed suspect who Is barricaded In his house.
6
7 A
case?
Did I discuss this case with anyone?
8 Q Anything else? 8 Q In preparation for your deposition In the last -
9 A From the dispatcher, no. 9 A To get myself prepared for this deposition.
10 Q Between your receiving that message and arriving In 10 Q Yes?
11 Lake Arthur, did you receive any other 11 A No.
12 communications from any source concerning that 12 Q Of course, you discussed this case with many other
13 situation? 13 people?
14 A Yes. 14 A Slnc:u the Inddent a lot of people have come up to
15 Q Frcmwhom? 15 me and asked me about this case. I discussed this
16 A Detective Chad Romero. 16 case with the -- I discussed this case with the
17 Q And what did he tell you? 17 sherIff, the chief deputy, detectIves and the
18 A Chad -- Detective Chad Romero contacted me by 18 Sheriffs Office about the case, and louisiana
19 phone, told me that the Lake Arthur Pollc:u 19 State Pollee Investigato.... I've spokento other
20 Department was on a call with a guy who had pulled 20 people In general about general conversation, but I
21 a gun out on the officers, and they were attempting 21 would not talk about the case. I would not give
22 to arrest him, and he barricaded himself In the 22 information about the case. I have talked to Chief
23 house. And Chad said he was goIng to the 23 VIncent.
24 Investfgatlon division to pick up some gas, 24 Q You talked to Mr. Laseter?
25 barricaded gas containers. I told him I had that 25 MR. SCHROEDER: You're talking about Since
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Slreet
Lafayette. Louisiana 70508 Lafayette. Louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337)234-5639
.~ .
66 68
1 in my unIt already and I would meet him there, and 1 the shooting?
2 he gave me an address. 2 A Since the shooting or recently?
3 Q Anything else that he told you? 3 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING)
4 A Not that I can recall. 4 Q Yes, since the shooting.
5 Q Prior to your deposition here today, other than 5 A Since the shooting I've talked to Laseter, after
6 what you've discussed with your attomey, did you 8 the Incident happened, a couple of times. Jt
7 have an opportunity to review anything? 7 mostlv was concern for him. I've talked to Chief
8 A I reviewed - J have read the report from the 8 Vincent In general about the case, more or less to
9 louIsiana State Police last week - two weeks ago. 9 check on her, and we have talked about - when the
10 Q And how did you have access to that? 10 Iilwsult came out, we talked about that because It
11 A J got that from Jeff Davis Parish DistrIct 11 was flIed so late, and we talked about coming to
12 Attorney's OffIce. 12 this deposItIon.
13 Q And did you ask for that from the DA's office? 13 Q Now, In preparation for this deposition In the last
14 A Yes. 14 week, with whom have you spoken? Not your
15 Q And what else have you reviewed before? 15 attorney, but what other persons?
16 A I reviewed aUdiotapes. I reviewed audiotapes from 16 A I spoke to the sheriff to let him know about the
17 louisIana State Pollee, recordings of IntervIews of 17 deposItion. I spoke to the chief deputy to let him
18 officers Involved and Ms. Lacoste. 18 know about the deposition.
19 Q Name some officers Involved. 19 Q What's the chief deputy's name?
20 A Chief Cheryl Vincent, Detective Chad Romero, 20 A Larry Dupuis. And just to let him know we're
21 Detective Derrick Miller, Patrolman Jared Manuel, 21 having a deposition. My assistant warden to let
22 Patrolman Brian House, Patrolman Leland Laseter and 22 hIm know we're having this deposition.
23 Ms. Lacoste. 23 Q His name?
24 Q Anyone else? 24 A
--
Derrick White. My secretary, Miss Pam Clemon, and
25 A And myself. 25 I talked to Chief Vincent last night.
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette. louisiana 70508 Lafayette, Louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639
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,
69
1 A Yeah,
71
1 Q You talked last night about your testimony here
2 today? 2 (MR. WILKES REJOINS THE PROCEEDINGS)
3 A No, sir. We talked about this deposition for 3 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING)
4 today, 4 Q But slightly to the west of the house?

-- 5 Q
6
7
A
Q
Just that there was going to be one?
ves, sir, Because she thought It was for tomorrow,
Not anything dealing with the circumstances
5
6 Q
7 A
A Ves.
Old you see anyone at that time?
Yes,
8 Involved? 8 Q Who did you see?
9 A No. 9 A I seen all of the officers Involved,
10 Q Okay. So you have received from Chad Romero 10 Q Tell me who you saw where.
11 Infonnatlon, and you told us what he said? 11 A I seen Chief Vincent In front of the house behind a
12 A Yes, 12 truck, Detectfve Romero and Patrolman Leland
13 Q Nothing else you remember about what he said? 13 Laseter In front of the house next to a truck
14 A Nothing else that I can remember. It wasn't a very 14 taking cover. And I seen Patrolman Brian House
15 long conversation. 15 behind his unit In front of the house.
16 Q When is your next known contact In any (onn with 16 Q What is the next thing that you recall happening?
17 what's happening at this Inddent In Lake Arthur? 17 A I took cover, approached Chief Vincent and
18 A When I drove up on the scene. 18 Detective Romero. I spoke to them, mostly
19 Q When you drove up on the scene, what did you see? 19 Detective Romero, telling me what was going on.
20 A When I drove up on the scene, I seen police cars on 20 And Chief VIncent. Mit was behind the truck trying
21 the road. Because he lived on a comer lot - he 21 to speak to steven Gunter In the house.
22 lives two houses from a comer, so I seen police 22 Q Let's take It -- you drive up, and you park on the
23 cars In front of the house and on thlt side road. 23 western edge of the lot?
24 Q Now, where did you park? 24 A Yes, sir.
25 A I parked almost In front of the house on the west 25 Q So you are approximately 60, 70 foot or 50 from the
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, louisiana 70508 Lafayette: louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234·5639
70 72
'- ' 1 side. 1 front porch? Is that about right?
2 Q And what street was that on? 2 A If you won't hold that to me, exact staps, yes.
3 A I don't know. 3 The reason why, you done that to me a while ago, so
4 Q Is that Bliss Street? 4 we're going - I mean, If you don't hold It exact,
5 A I believe It Is, but I don't know, 5 It's 60, 70 steps,
6 Q Do you know where Kellogg Street IS? 6 Q Well, each lot In that town Is how big?
7 A I know Kellogg Street and BUss and all of that, 7 A I don't know.
8 but I don't know where they're at. 8 Q You don't know. Well, If you can assume that It's
9 Q well, what route did you take to go into the dty? 9 50 by 100 foot deep. You were parked at the
10 Let's see If we can figure that out. 10 westem edge of this lot?
11 A I came the back way through Welsh, came on the 11 A Yes.
12 Interstate, get through Welsh, hit Highway 99, 12 Q And the house is set back 35, 40 foot from the
13 drove to Highway 380, tumed on 380 - I'm sorry - 13 roadway?
14 went down 99, to Highway 99, tumed on 99 and drove 14 A If we're gOing to estimate, yeah.
15 Into the Town of Lake Arthur. From there I got on 15 Q About from here to across the street?
16 a road, which probably would be HIghway 14. It's 16 A The distance from a normal house from the road.
17 actually a road that goes Into town. I turned on 17 All houses around Lake Arthur are about the same
18 Arthur Avenue, the main drag In town. When I got 18 distance.
19 to Arthur Avenue, I tumed by the ffre department, 19 Q And you parked your unit, and you walked how far to
20 whatever road that Is. That's the road that they 20 get behind this area that Chief Vincent and Laseter
21 were on. 21 and Romero were?
22 Q How far were you from Steven Gunter's house when 22 A As In feet-wise I couldn't teU you.
23 you stopped? 23 Q Approximately.
24 A I was In front of the house on the west side. 24 A I mean-

-- 25 Q So you were within the lot?

CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street
25 Q Old you run, you walk, what?
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1't A J walked. J took cover behind my car. J walked 1 A Someone forced entry Into the house.
2 around the passenger's side. J walked over to 2 Q Who forced entry Into the house?
3 Brtan House's car, taking cover behind It. From 3 A Detective Chad Romero.
4 passing up Brtan House's car, J ran behind whatever 4 Q And how did he force entry Into the house?
5 other vehlde that was parked on the roadway or In 5 A With a ram.
6 the drlveway's distance and came around, stili with 6 Q I see.
7 cover, to the truck where J approached Detective 7 A A police ram.
8 Romero and Chief Vincent. 8 Q I got you. And when you all went Into the house,
9 Q How far were you In front of Romero's unit? 9 what were you faced with?
10 A J don't know. I don't know where his car was. 10 A Ask me a little bit more specifiC about that.
11 Q How far were you In front of House's unit? 11 Q When you walked Into the house, what did you first
12 A What do you mean? Feet standing In front of? 12 see?
13 Q How far apart were your units? 13 A I opened - the door opened. I walked In. I seen
14 A Oh, they were five feet approximately. 14 smoke, OC smoke, teargas.
15 Q From you to me? 15 Q And what else did you see when you walked In that
16 A Yeah, front to back. 16 door?
17 Q So you were In open territory for about five foot 17 A I seen a hallway that goes all the way down, with a
18 between those first two units? 18 doorway rtght here to my right. To my left there
19 A Yes. 19 was like a washing machine and dryer. Past It
20 Q You were In open territory getting out of your 20 there was a little room here. I think It was a
21 driver's side door and going around back to your 21 bathroom, and there was a hallway down there.
22 car coming around? 22 Q Was It an open way from the kitchen to the living
23 A Yes. 23 room? Is that what you're speaking of?
24 Q And then from the back of House's unit to where 24 A No. When I went to that back door, wherever that
25 Chief Vincent was, you were open how far? 25 hallway rtght here was, It·s an open halfway that
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, louisiana 70508 Lafayette, Louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639
74 76
'- ' 1 A There was another vehicle there, so probably 1 goes Into another room.
2 another five feet distance. Then I took cover to 2 Q When you opened -- when the door was opened, who
3 that truck. That would be another five feet 3 was the first one through that door?
4 distance. 4 A Me.
5 Q At that tlme did anybody shoot at you? 5 Q And you did not face a wall when you came Into that
6 A No. 6 room?
7 Q At any time you were there, did anyone shoot at 7 A There was a wall on the right side.
8 you? 8 Q And what did you do when you saw that wall?
9 A Yes. 9 A I didn't do nothing when I first saw the wall. J
10 Q Who shot at you? 10 walked Into the house and hollered for Steven
11 A Steven Gunter. 11 Gunter.
12 Q When did he shoot at you? 12 Q What did you say?
13 A Steven Gunter shot at me when J made contact with 13 A I said, "Steven." I said, "Where are you at,
14 him. 14 Steven? Where are you at?R
15 Q And when you -- 15 Q You couldn't see him?
16 A When I made visual contact with him. 16 A I could not see him.
17 Q And you were outside the house? 17 Q What occurred then?
18 A I was Inside the house. 18 A I walked down the hallway. I was looking Into the
19 Q I see. This is after you all broke Into the house, 19 bathroom because I thought that hallway went Into
20 correct? 20 the living room area, but It actually went Into the
21 MR. SCHROEDER: Object to the term. 21 bedroom area. I walked down a little ways. Then I
22 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 22 can hear Steven saying something. I don't know
23 Q Well, you did break Into the house, didn't you? 23 what he was saying. SOmeone was at the back door,
24 A I did not. 24 which It was Chad Romero, who said, ''Terrie, he's
25 Q Old someone break Into the house? 25 over here. n I came back, and I walked Into that
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, louisIana 70508 lafayette, Louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639
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o ~
1 doorway that goes Into the kitchen. 1 A I don't know who came In the house after I shot
2 Q And then what did you see? 2 Steven, we exchanged fire.
3 A I turned - when I walked Into the kitchen, I 3 Q When you shot Steven, who was In the house?
4 turned and looked, and I could see Steven Gunter 4 A I don't know.
5 sitting on the couch. I had a flashlight pointing 5 Q When you shot Steven, where was he?

"-- 6
7
at him, and he was sitting on the couch. I said,
"Steven, are you all right?" And he said, "Get out
6
7
A Steven was In the kitchen. He was In the kitchen
with me.
8 of my house." He stood - he shot two rounds, and 8 Q I see. And you shot him In the kitchen?
9 he stood up and shot some rounds. 9 A I'm assuming. Wherever he was standing at the time
10 Q And who did he shoot at? 10 I shot him.
11 A He shot at me. 11 Q And how tall are you?
12 Q Aiming towards you? 12 A Six foot.
13 A Towards me. 13 Q How old tall Is Steven?
14 Q And two rounds? 14 A I'm assuming sbe foot. I don't know.
15 A He flred two rounds from a sitting position. 15 Q You stood next to him when he was In the Jail
16 Q Then what had you done or said up to that point 16 previously?
17 other than what you've already told us? 17 A I've stood next to Steven a bunch of times, but I
18 A I said - that's exactly It. 18 couldn't really tell you If he was six foot or five
19 Q That's all? 19 ten.
20 A I walked Into that kitchen area. I said, "Steve, 20 Q Now, you shot him In the kitchen. Old anyone else
21 where are you at?" I pointed my flashlight, which 21 shoot him?
22 was on my rifle, my shotgun, at him. He was 22 A Nobody else shot.
23 sitting there. I said, "Steven." I saId, "Where 23 Q Nobody but you?
24 are you at?" He was sitting there. I heard the 24 A And Steven.
25 shots. I heard the shots. It surprised me. When 25 Q You shot two shots?
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette. Louisiana 70508 Lafayette. Louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234·5639

-" 1
2
I looked up, he mod up. I could see he had a
rffIe In his hand. He was pointing, and ha was
78
1 A
2 Q
I shot approximately five to six shots.
I see. With your shotgun?
80

3 shooting. I ran backwards and ran Into somebody 3 A Yes.

4 behInd me. I Just heard a bunch of noise behind 4 Q How many shells does your shotgun hold?
5 me. I could hear bullets pinging behind me, ping, 5 A Seven.
6 ping, ping. I ran to whoever I ran Into. He was 6 Q So you dldn't empty your chamber?
7 hollering. I couldn't run out the back door 7 A No.
8 because of that, and I ran behind an Icebox. 8 Q You had a couple left: In there?
9 Q Who did you run Into behind you? 9 A I had one left In.
10 A I don't know. 10 Q One left: and one In the chamber?
11 Q Who else was In the house besides you and Chad 11 A I had one In the - I had one round left In the gun
12 Romero? 12 completely. It was In the chamber.
13 A At the time I went In, nobody was In the house when 13 Q So If you had seven to start With, you fired six?
14 I went In. Just Chad was at the door, and he 14 A I had six - I shot flve to six rounds. That gun
15 hollered to me. And when I went In the house, when 15 holds seven round.. I don't know If It had seven
16 I was In the kitchen, I don't know who -- I mean, I 16 rounds In It Dr six rounds In It. I know that when
17 know who, but I couldn't tell you who exactly, but 17 It was all said and done, I had one round left In
18 I know It was Derrick Miller, Chad Romero and 18 the chamber. I don't know If I shot five rounds or
19 Manuel. 19 six rounds.
20 Q Jared Manuel? 20 Q I understand. And you hit him In the kitchen?
21 A Jared Manuel. Where they was at, who was standing 21 MR. SCHROEDER: I'm going to object to the
22 behind me, I do not know that. I had never turned 22 term hit him.
23 around to lee, but I do know those three came In 23 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING)
24 the house after I went Into the kitchen. 24 Q Excuse me. You shot him In the kltx:hen, Is what
25 Q And after you shot Steven? 25 you said?
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette. louisiana 70508 lafayette. Louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639
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l' A I couldn't tell you where he was shot and when. 1 Q None whatsoever?
2 aecause of the rounds flying, I don't know which 2 A None.
3 ones hit him and which ones did not. 3 Q You knew this, cOm!ct?
r 4 Q But when you shot him the first time -- 4 A Yes, sir.
S A I don't know. S Q Old you know of any prior existing Information that
------ 6 Q •• he was In the kitchen? 6 made you believe that a felony had been committed?
7 A I don't know. I can only - I can tell you where 7 A Yes.
8 the last shot was that hIt hIm. The first time I 8 Q What Is that?
9 shot a round, I was In the kitchen. The first time 9 A Steven was - they were attempting to arrest Steven
10 that he was hit, I don't know. I know the last 10 for a domestic battery, misdemeanor, and when they
11 round I know for sure he was In the kitchen. 11 entered the house, Steven pointed a gun and
12 Q I see. How many times do you think you hit Steven? 12 committed a felony, aggravated assault, on a pOlice
13 A I don't know. 13 officer.
14 Q Or shot Steven? 14 Q And who Is that that happened to?
15 A I don't know. 15 A It was told to me that he did that to Patrolman
16 Q Were you able to see well with all of the gas that 16 Leland Laseter and Manuel, Jared Manuel.
17 was In the house? 17 Q 80th of them?
18 A There was a foggy fog In there, but I was able to 18 A It was told to me, yes.
19 He because I had a mask on. It had a shIeld over 19 MR. WIU<ES: That's J-A-R-E-D.
20 It. It was the whole thing I could see through. I 20 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING)
21 could see perfect. And I had a flashUght, and I 21 Q Jared?
22 could see good. 22 A Jared, yeah.
23 Q But your flashlight had to penetrate the gas? 23 Q And you were told by whom?
24 A Yes. 24 A Chief Vincent and Detective Romero, and I even
25 Q How many canisters of gas had been fired Into the 25 think Patrolman Laseter.
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, Louisiana 70508 LafayeUe. Louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639
--....- 82 84
1 house? 1 Q Well, let's see If Laseter did tell you that. Do
2 A I want to say five. 2 you remember specifically that Laseter told you
3 Q Who fired them? 3 that before you went Into that house?
4 A Me. 4 A Yes. Oh, yes, he told me that. And Jared Manuel
5 Q At what point In time did you fire them? 5 told me that.
6 A I fired those rounds Into the house after speaking 6 Q And did Chief Vincent tell you that also?
7 to Detective Romero and after Chief Vincent told 7 A Chief Vincent told me that, too.
8 Steven If he didn't come out, we were going to flll 8 Q Old Chief Vincent tell you how close she had gotten
9 the house with gas. 9 to the house?
10 Q Now, at that point In time, had Steven shot at you? 10 A No.
11 A Not at me. 11 Q Old you ever come to learn how dose she had gotten
12 Q Had Steven shot at anyone at that point? 12 to the house?
13 A Steven - It was reported to me that Steven - 13 A I come to learn from what I gathered through
14 Q By whom? 14 Information that - I perceived that Chief VIncent
15 A It was reported to me by Detective Romero and Chief 15 was In the yard lit the front door.
16 Vincent that Steven had shot a round. 16 Q And did Chief Vincent tell you that Steven Gunter
17 Q And where had the round gone? 17 had pointed a gun at her?
18 A I don't know. 18 A No.
19 Q I see. Now, can you tell me whether or not there 19 Q Old she tell you that he had shot at her?
20 was an arrest warrant that you know of In existence 20 A No.
21 for Steven's arrest? 21 Q Now, did you all recover any leads from this weapon
22 A There was no arrest warrant for Steven's arrest. 22 that Steven Gunter had?
23 Q Old you have any warrant to enter the house and 23 A I could not answer that because I don't know.
24
--
search the house? 24 State Police will have to answer that.
25 A I had no warrant. 25 Q You've read the State Police report?
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, Louisiana 70508 Lafayette, Louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639
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. . 85
1 A You're asking me the rounds we use"
87

1 A Yes.
2 Q And what did It say? 2 Q Yes.
3 A I don't remember. 3 A Nine.
4 Q You read It yesterday? 4 Q And do you know how many pieces of double aught
5
--- 5
6
7
A
Q
A
I read It two weeks ago.
Two weeks ago?
Yeah.
6
7
A
Q
buckshot were recovered?
I don't know.
You don't know?
8 Q Old you make any determination as to whether or not 8 A No.
9 any leads had been recovered from the premises? 9 Q You did not see that In the report?
10 A You're talking about lead as In the round? 10 A It might have been In there, but I don't remember.
11 Q Well, the bullet -- 11 Q Have you seen the autopsy report?
12 A Because you've got a cartridge and you've got a 12 A I have seen an autopsy report attached to the
13 bullet. 13 Louisiana State Police report. I did not read It.
14 Q You have a cartridge, and then It has a projectile? 14 I seen It. I seen the drawings and the picture of
15 A A projectile, yes. 15 a body, but I didn't read the report of the
16 Q This Is normally called a lead, Isn't It? 16 autopsy.
17 A Yes. 17 Q And you didn't count --
18 Q And was any recovered In the premise? 18 A No.
19 A I don't know. I do know one was recovered, 19 Q -- the numbers of projectiles that were recovered
20 Q 1 see. And where was It recovered? 20 that were of double aught buckshot origin?
21 A In Jared Manuel's arm, I'm assuming. 21 A I didn't - I don't remember ever reading anything
22 Q In his arm? 22 In there saying that, and I didn't look for It.
23 A I'm assuming. 23 Q Fine. Now, at the point of time that you arrived
24 Q Old he tell you that? 24 at the scene and -- between the point In time you
25 A No. I'm assuming that from when I read the report 25 arrived and the point of time that the back door
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, louisiana 70508 Lafayette. Louisiana 70508
(337) 234·5639 (337) 234-5639

'- ' 1
2
from the State Police. I remember readIng It,
saying that they recovered cartridges In the house
86
1
2
was forcibly entered and you went Into the house,
did you put on a SWAT vest?
88

3 and something about - I remember somethIng about 3 A Yes, I had a vest on.
4 the round penetrated Jared Manuel's arm, but I 4 Q Old you have It on when you arrived?
5 don't remember what exactly It saId about It. 5 A No, I didn't have It on when I arrived.
6 Q Old It say that It was actually stopped In the 6 Q It was In your unit?
7 flesh of his arm? 7 A In the trunk of my car.
8 A It didn't say that. I don't know. I do remember 8 Q You had to go back to your car to get It after you
9 that report saying they found fragments of a lead 9 came and talked to Chief Vincent?
10 from a- 10 A No. I took It all out of the car and brought It
11 Q A proJeCtIle? 11 with me when I went there, when I went and talked
12 A Projectile. A .22 rifle round. 12 to her.
13 Q And the forensic evIdence verified It was a .22 13 Q Facemask?
14 caliber? 14 A The whole thing.
15 A I don't know. 15 Q Helmet?
16 Q You dldn't notice that In the report? 16 A No helmet.
17 A I did not notice that. There was a lot of forensIc 17 Q Teargas?
18 stuff In there. I didn't notice that. 18 A Yes.
19 Q Now, with regard to the Investigation that was 19 Q You came out of your car ready for --
20 conducted and the report that you read, did you 20 A I came out, went around to the trunk, popped It
21 determine how many buckshot were recovered? 21 open and retrIeved my equipment that wa. -
22 A No. That's why I'm saying five to six. I don't 22 everythIng you Just mentioned.
23 remember what the report said. 23 Q Can you tell me why you did that before you ever
24 Q Do you know how many double aught leads there are 24 got to talk to anyone?
r- 25 In double aught buckshot? 25 A Because that'. what they called me to go over there
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, Louisiana 70508 Lafayette, Louisiana 70508
(337) 234a5639 (337) 234-5639
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 UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFTS2

. 1
..
and bring.
89
1 behind the unit In front of the house, you had the
91

2 Q Who Is they? 2 canisters with you of gas?

3 A Detective Chad Romero. 3 A Ves.
4 Q And he's the one that told you what to bring? 4 Q You had the weapon to fire the gas Into the
5 A He told me In the conversation we had that he was 5 premises?
.........- 6 A Ves.
6 going to the office to get the gas. I told him I
7 had that In my car already, and he said, "Well, 7 Q You had your shotgun?
a I'll meet you there with It." And I brought It. a A Ves.
9 Q Old he tell you to put on -- what should we call 9 Q You had your bulletproof vest, and you had a
10 It .. a bulletproof vest? 10 facemask?
11 A Veah, I brought It. Chad don't tell me to do 11 A Ves. My gas mask, yes, I had that.
12 nothing. 12 Q You had all of that with you?
13 Q He didn't tell you to do that? 13 A Ves.
14 A Chad don't tell me to do nothing. 14 Q So what was your state of mind relative to what you
15 Q You Just told me what he told you to do, and now 15 had to do?
16 you say he .. 16 A My state of mind was that I was going over there
17 A Chad doesn't tell me what to do. 17 and to do my job.
18 Q Who tells you what to do? 18 Q Which was what?
19 A Nobody. I don't - I don't -- Chad didn't say 19 A Whatever needed - that the law enforcement
20 nothing about bringing nothing or do anything. 20 officers needed me to do at the time. Whatever-
21 Chad told me what he was going to do, and I told 21 If they wanted me to go stand by the stop sign and
22 him what I was going to do. He told me he was 22 direct traffic, to putting the gas In the house, to
23 going to get the gas. I told him I have It; I'm 23 make an entry, to talking to him, or whatever I
24 going to bring It. 24 needed to do, that was my state of mind, doing my
25 Q So when you got there, you got out of your car, 25 job.
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette. Louisiana 70508 Lafayette, Louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639

--- 1 went to the trunk of your car?

90
1 Q Including using deadly force?
92

2 A Uh-huh (yes). 2 A I went over there and knew that could possibly
3 Q You got out your bulletproof vest? 3 happen like I do an any stop when I da a traffic
4 A Uh-huh (yes). 4 stop ar I go on-any call.
5 Q Put It on? 5 Q So you're prepared for deadly force?
6 A Maybe. I don't remember If I put It on when I went 6 A I'm prepared to protect myself and anyone else that
7 around or not, but I remember grabbing all of my 7 I had to.
8 equipment. 8 Q Do you know what deadly force means?
9 Q Your helmet? 9 A I do know what deadly force means.
10 A No helmet. 10 Q What does It mean?
11 Q' Well, your face .. 11 A It means taking the life of someone.
12 A My ga. mask, yes. 12 Q Is that all It means?
13 Q It didn't have a helmet with It? 13 A Deadly force means someone losing their life by the
14 A No. 14 force of someone else.
15 Q And you had your shotgun? 15 Q When Is It appropriate for a policeman to use
16 A Ves. I got It out of the trunk. 16 deadly force?
17 Q You loaded It? 17 A It's appropriate for a police officer to use deadly
18 A It was already loaded. 18 force when they're protecting himself or others.
19 Q Did you have a sidearm? 19 Q NOW, tell me If you knew who was In that house when
20 A Yes. 20 you arrived.
21 Q What did you have? 21 A I don't know. I couldn't remember. I do not know
22 A Forty caliber Glock. 22 If they told me It was Steven Gunter before I got
23 Q Fourteen rounds? 23 there or when I got there.
24 A Fifteen rounds. 24 Q When was the last time you had seen Gunter before
.........- 25 Q Now, when you came to the people that were huddled 25 this day?
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, louisiana 70508 Lafayette, louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639
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. •
1 A
.
I believe steven was In Jail - I believe Steven
93
1 beverages were being consumed.
95

2 was In Jail sometime In 1997 before this Incident. 2 MR. SCHROEDER: That's not what you asked.
3 MR. SCHROEDER: You said '97. 3 MR. SHELTON: Well, 111 II

4 A I'm sorry. 2007. SOrry. 2007, before the 4 MR. SCHROEDER: You asked when he last had
5 shooting. 5 a drink with him. That's exactly what It
"0-
6 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 6 Implies.
7 Q I'm asking you how long before the shooting was the 7 MR. SHELTON: Well, that's good.
8 last time you saw him. 8 MR. SHELTON: {CONTINUING}
9 A That would have been It, when he was In Jail 9 Q I'm asking you now when Is the last time you were
10 prlor- 10 In a premise where you all had drinks In the same
11 Q Two or three months? 11 premise, but not necessarily together?
12 A I don't know. 1 didn't go try to look for no 12 A 1 WBnt to say this Is going to be the beginning of
13 paperwork. 1 Just remember that because he was In 13 1997 because 1 remember - I know It was before he
14 Jail. I don't even remember what he was In Jail 14 came to Jan because that last time 1 seen Steven
15 for. J do believe It was for some mIsdemeanors, 15 was when he was In the parish Jail.
16 and we had to make room In the jail. And I 16 MR. SCHROEDER: Just so the record Is
17 remember going through the Jail list, getting 17 clear, you keep saying '97.
18 people out of jail - he was one of them - through 18 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. 2007.
19 the Judge 1 went and spoke to, to get recalled out 19 MR. SCHROEDER: I hope you don't mind me
20 of the Jail, to make room. And this was - It 20 helping with that.
21 could have been six months, It could have been 21 MR. SHELTON: No.
22 three months before the Incident. 22 A 2007. rm sorry. But during 20071 remember
23 Q Do you agree with me that It was at least thirty 23 seeing Steven twice. I can remember In 2007 when I
24 days -- 24 was In a bar, he was drinking, and right after that
25 A Yes. 25 he got arrested and he was put In the parish Jail.
CHERYL VENABlE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Sl18et 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, louisiana 70508 Lafayette, Louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639
94 96
"-"
1 Q -- before this Inddent that resulted In his 1 And then at the hOUR when the Inddent occurred.
2 death .. 2 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING)
3 A Yes, sir. 3 Q Now, did you hear any other discharge of firearms
4 Q - slnce the last time you had even seen -- 4 once you fired your shotgun?
5 A Yes, sir. 5 A I heard steven fire.
6 Q -- Steven Gunter? 6 Q So your first shot that was fired, did It hit
7 A Yes, Sir, correct. 7 Steven?
8 Q So you didn't see him the few days before the 8 A I don't know.
9 shooting? 9 Q Your second shot that was fired?
10 A No,slr. 10 A I don't know.
11 Q When Is the last time you had a drink with Steven 11 Q In between the first and second, did you hear any
12 Gunter, an alcoholic beverage? 12 report from Steven?
13 A And that's the thing. Just because me and you are 13 A Report?
14 In the same room together doesn't mean we're 14 Q Gun report.
15 together. 15 A Yes.
16 Q I'm sorry? 16 Q He fired after you fired your first shot?
17 A Just because we're In the same room together don't 17 A Steven fired two rounds. 1 fired two rounds.
18 mean we're together. I have never drank alcohol 18 steven fired whatever rounds he fired.
19 with steven Gunter. I've been In the same room, 19 Q And then you fired some more?
20 Ame bar, the barroom with Steven Gunter In there, 20 A I ran and took COver behind the Icebox, and I fired
21 and I do remember him drinking a beer, but he 21 two rounds.
22 wasn't drinking with me. 22 Q So that makes four?
23 Q Actually, I didn't mean to Intimate that you were 23 A That makes four.
24 drinking with him. I'm asking you when Is the last 24 Q And then maybe a fifth?
25 time you were together with him and alcohOlic 25 A
--" CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street
And then when 1 came around from behind the Icebox,
CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, Louisiana 70508 Lafayette, louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639
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• , 97
1 A At that time.
99
1 I fired two more rounds.
2 Q SO six? 2 Q And he lives around the comer In the next block or

3 A Six. 3 so over from where this action occurred?

4 Q Six rounds, possibly five? 4 A No, sir. He lived across town.
S A Possibly five. 5 Q What was he doing there?

--- 6 Q
7 A
It might have been five; It might have been six?
I know for sure I fired one round after his two
6
7
A
Q
I don't know.
Old you talk to him about why he was there?
8 rounds, I know I fired two rounds. I hid behind 8 A Yes, He told me that he was contacted by Lake
9 the Icebox, and I know I fired two more rounds when 9 Arthur Police Department, and that's why he was
10 I came from the Icebox and engaged him. It might 10 there. That Is pretty much all he told me,
11 have been two when I first - when he first fired 11 Q Did the City of Jennings police have jurisdiction
12 the two rounds and I fired. It might have been 12 In Lake Arthur?
13 two, but ·I know for a fact I can remember five 13 A Not that I know of.
14 rounds, but It could have been six. 14 Q Jared Manuel was a Lake Arthur policeman?
15 Q Old you ever make a determination that you had 15 A Yes.
16 actually hit him? 16 Q In what vehicle did he arrive at the scene?
17 A The last round I know for sure I hit him. 17 A I don't know.
18 Q And where was he when you shot him with the last 18 Q What vehicles did you see at the scene besides Lake
19 round that you're sure you hit him? 19 Arthur Police Department and the sheriff's unit?
20 A I'm going to say, because of the heat of the moment 20 A And old blue truck In the yard, another vehlde In
21 and things going on, but I am goIng to say 21 the yard. I don't remember what It was. And some
22 approxImately me to you, five, six feet. 22 other vehicles, but I can't remember what they
23 Q And you all were where? 23 were.
24 A In the kitchen. 24 Q Old you see any other police agencies or state
25 Q Now, at that time when the last shot was fired, was 25 agendes present at the scene?
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, Louisiana 70508 Lafayette, Louisiana 70508

_. 1
(337) 234·5639

anyone watching the shooting?

98
1 A No.
(337) 234-5639
100

2 A I don't know. 2 Q Now, how long did It take for Steven Gunter to die?
3 Q Has anyone told you they saw the shooting? 3 A I don't know.
4 A No. 4 Q What did you do after you shot him and you know
5 Q Old any of the officers who ultimately came Into 5 that you hit him?
6 the house that you named, the three of them, Jared 6 A When I shot Steven and I know that I hit hIm that
7 Manuel, Chad Romero, Derrick Miller, did any of the 7 last round, steven dropped the gun to his side and
8 three say that they saw the shooting? 8 he said, "I've been hIt. I've been hit. n And he
9 A Yes. 9 waved hIs hand at me. And I know I racked the last
10 Q Which one told you they saw the shooting? 10 round, which I didn't know It was the last round,
11 A All three of them said they saw the shooting, but I 11 but I racked that round, pointed the gun at hIm
12 don't know what they said. But they were In the 12 with the light. And I saId, "Drop the gun, Steven.
13 house when Steven started shootIng, and they said 13 Drop the gun," And Steven, with the gun to hIs
14 they were In the house when I returned fire. But I 14 side, walked over to the couch, sat down. I run up
15 also know that they were scattering, running, 15 to him and seld, "Drop the gun. Drop the gun."
16 trying to get out of the house, too, so I don't 16 And he Just wouldn't drop the gun. He Just
17 know who was stili In the house when It was all 17 sat there. And thIs was Bilgoing - thIs was a
18 over wIth. It was a short period of time. 18 very short period of time. J said, "Drop the gun,
19 Q Describe to me what weapon Jared Manuel had. 19 Steven. Drop the gun." And Steven looked up at
20 A I don't know, 20 me, and his head went back and hIs eya rolled
21 Q Describe to me what weapon Chad Romero had. 21 back. And at that time I figured the threat of him
22 A I don't know. 22 using that weapon was over with. I ran up to the
23 Q Describe to me what weapon Derr1ck Miller had. 23 gun, and I pulled It out of his hand and threw It
24 A I don't know. 24 to the side and grabbed him and pulled him to the

-- 25 Q Derrtck Miller Is employed by the City of Jennings?

CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street
25 ground, the back of his shl~ and he hit the
CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, Louisiana 70508 Lafayette, Louisiana 70508
(337) 234·5639 (337) 234-5639
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it ground. From that time that's when I know for sure 1 gas, and they were coughing. I said, "Grab him."
2 Chad Romero and Derrick Miller was In the house. 2 They grabbed him. I turned around and unlocked the
3 Q Old they have on gas masks? 3 front door. I opened the door and hollered, "We're
4 A No. 4 coming out," so the officers would know It was us.
5 Q Old they have on any type of protective armor? 5 The door opened. I reached down and caught him by

'- 7
6 A Chad had on a bulletproof vest for sure that I
know. I don't remember what Derrick had on.
6
7
the back of his shirt. Chad had him by his pants.
We picked him up, and we walked hIm outside. We
8 Q What about Jared? 8 placed him on the ground In front of the steps, and
9 A I don't know what he had on. 9 I walked away,
10 Q So you know that he was stili alive and talked to 10 Q Old you try to perform any type of rescue attempt,
11 you when he 15 sitting on the sofa? 11 CPR?
12 A No. 12 A I did not.
13 Q You don't know that? 13 Q Old you see anyone try?
14 A I know he did not talk to me. You're talking about 14 A Yes. I seen Louisiana - I mean, I'm sorry - Lake
15 when I first come In or after he was shot? 15 Arthur paramedics for the fire department. When I
16 Q Aft:er he was shot. 16 was walking away, they were running In. Chad
17 A After he was shot, Steven talked to me when he was 17 Romero was hollering for them to come In. I don't
18 standing up when I - he said, "I've been hit. 18 know who they were. I know they were Lake Arthur
19 I've been hit." And he waved his ann to me. 19 firemen.
20 Q HiS left: arm? 20 Q And did you see anything they did?
21 A His left arm. And that's the last time he spoke to 21 A No, I did not.
22 me. 22 Q What did you then do?
23 Q And his gun was down at his side In his hand? 23 A I walked over to my unit. Chad was hollering for
24 A In his hand. 24 the fire department guys to come In to do whatever
25 Q And that was In the kitchen? 25 they had to do with him. I tumed around. Chad
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1 A That was In the kitchen. And he walked Into the 1 said, "Don't go back over there." I handed him my
2 living room that was attached to the kitchen. 2 gun, my shotgun. I walked over to the car and took
3 There's an open area. He walked over to the couch 3 everytl'llng off. Jared Manuel walked up to me and I
4 and sat down. 4 started telling him to look at me to make sure I
5 Q SUII had the gun In his right hand? 5 wasn't hit. So they was all checking me out, and
6 A Stili had the gun In his right hand. 6 he said, "Have you been hlt?n And I said, "I don't
7 Q And you were right on him? 7 think so. Look." He looked at me, and he said,
8 A I was right on him. 8 "No, you're not hit." And then I said, "All
9 Q And you had one round left:? 9 right." And that's when Jared Manuel said, "I'm
10 A At the time I didn't know that, but yes. 10 hit." And he tumed his ann over to me and looked
11 Q You didn't know that, but It turned out you had one 11 at It. I said, "You've been hit." And at that
12 round left? 12 time Acadian Ambulance was on the scene, and when
13 A Yes. 13 they were running up, I said, "He's been hit. He's
14 Q But you didn't have to use it? 14 been hit." And one of them came to him, and the
15 A I didn't have to use It. 15 other one went to Steven.
16 Q Now, aft:er this what did you then do? 16 Q Now, when you saw Jared Manuel's supposed hit,
17 MR. SCHROEDER: After what? What point do 17 where was It?
18 we want him to pick up? 18 A In his right ann, muscle part.
19 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 19 Q On the triceps part In the back?
20 Q He's on the ground; he's face down on the ground, 20 A Yes.
21 correct? 21 Q Was It a graze wound?
22 A In the house. 22 A I don't know.
23 Q In the house. What did you then do? 23 Q Well, did you see a line --
24 A I tumed to look. Detective Chad Romero was coming 24 A I seen a hole.
25 In. Derrick was behind him. The house was full of 25 Q -- or did you see a hole?
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1 A I seen a hole. 1 A That day.
2 Q You saw a hole going In? 2 Q And at that time on that day, did they draw a
3 A I really can't say. 3 diagram of the house?
4 Q But you saw a hole? 4 A Yes.
5 A I seen a hole. 5 Q And did they ask you where you were when you fired
---- 6 Q One hole? 6 certain shots?
7 A One hole. 7 A I drew a diagram of the house that I can actually
8 Q Old you look at It close? 8 remember what It looked like. I don't think It was
9 A No. 9 actually what the house looked Uke. I drew It as
10 Q Have you ever learned that there was a piece of 10 best I could remember when I went In. And I showed
11 lead In hiS arm? 11 them where the couch was he was sitting In. I
12 A I couldn't answer that. I don't know. 12 showed them where I was, but I cannot tell you - I
13 MR. SCHROEDER: I think this has been 13 don't think that I wrote on a piece of paper and
14 asked and answered a while back. 14 drew a dot and Aid I was standing here when I
15 A Ileamed- 15 shot, I was standing here when I shot, I was
16 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 16 standing here when I shot.
17 Q Old you leam from Jared that there was a piece of 17 Q Who was the State Police Investigator who
18 lead In his arm that had to be removed. 18 Interrogated you?
19 A I remember when I grabbed his arm and looked at the 19 A Last name Is lapointe, Trooper lapointe. I think
20 hole I said, "You have a bullet In your arm." He 20 his first name Is Benny.
21 said, "I don't know." That's when I said to the 21 Q Where Is he from?
22 paramedics, "Come get him." And to this day 22 A I don't know. He's from Troop D, detective
23 besides reading the report -- and I don't remember 23 division, but I don't know nothing about him.
24 what exactly It said, but I remember them saying 24 Q You didn't know him before?
25 something about a fragment of a .22 bullet, but I 25 A I never met him before.
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don't remember what It said In the report about It, 1 Q When he reenacted the scene of the Inddent with
108

and I don't know If It came out of his arm or not. 2 you, did he get down Into spedflc detail as to
3 Q Everything you told us here today Is the same story 3 what you saw and when you saw It.
4 that you have told the State Police? 4 A I think he asked me - and this Is me thlnldng
5 A Yes, sir. 5 because I don't remember what exactly was said. He
6 Q Is there anything that you did tell them that you 6 sat down. He read me my rights. He said, "Do you
7 haven't had an opportunity to tell us here today? 7 want to talk to me?" I said, "Yes." He said,
8 MR. SCHROEDER: I'm going to object to the 8 "Tell me what happened.n I told him everything
9 overbroadness of the question. There's no 9 that I could remember. He had a recorder on. He
10 way he would be able to remember 10 recorded It, and that was It.
11 everything he told the State Police. 11 Q And he Interrogated you first as best you know?
12 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 12 A I don't remember. I couldn't tell you If I was
13 Q The State Police questioned you about the 13 first or not?
14 directions In which you fired at each time that you 14 Q Where did he Interrogate you?
15 fired In the house? 15 A At the criminal Investigation division of the Jeff
16 A I don't remember what - If that spedflc question 16 Davis Sheriff'S OffIce.
17 was asked me. I'm pretty sure - 17 Q Had Detective lapointe had an opportunity to go
18 Q Old the policeman say, well, were you standing In 18 through the scene of the Inddent?
19 this position when you fired at the man? 19 A I don't know.
20 A I don't remember exactly the questions they were 20 Q Old he Indicate to you that he had been to the
21 asking me, so I couldn't answer that If you want me 21 scene?
22 to be specific. I couldn't specifically say that's 22 A He didn't tell me nothing, He didn't tell me
23 the question they asked me because I don't remember 23 nothing.
24 what they asked me. 24 Q Have you seen the photographs of the scene?
1'--" 25 Q They Interrogated you that day? 25 A I seen the photographs In the report the State
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1 Police give the district attorney's offlce. I 1 It was Ralph Broussard, but It could have been
2 maybe looked at one picture or two, but I said - I 2 another officer. There was a bunch of deputies out
3 mean, I know there's a stack of pictures, but I did 3 there.
4 not look through all of them. 4 Q Old the shooting result In a death?
5 Q Who was the photographer who took the pictures? 5 A Yes.
---- 6 A I don't know. 6
7
Q And the State Police came In and Investigated It?
7 Q Who normally takes the pictures for the lake Arthur A Yes.
8 Police Department andlor the Jeff Davis Police 8 Q Was the FBI called In?
9 Department when you have an Incident that Involves 9 A I don't know.
10 a killing? 10 Q Was the FBI called In to this matter?
11 A If the Jeff Davis Parish Sheriff's Office 11 A Not that I know of.
12 Investigates any felony crime and If It needs to 12 Q Have you talked to any officers from the FBI --
13 have photos taken, they call out a detective. 13 A No.
14 Detective Warren Gary takes those pictures. 14 Q -- about this matter?
15 Q Do you know If Warren Gary took the pictures In 15 A No.
16 this case? 16 (A BREAK IS TAKEN)
17 A I don't know. 17 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING)
18 Q The State Police took their own pictures? 18 Q So you had known Steven Gunter for about twelve
19 A I don't know. 19 years, and except for minor little problems, there
20 Q The Investigation with the State Pollee was turned 20 had never been anything that had Involved a weapon;
21 over Immediately to the State Pollee? What I'm 21 am I right about that?
22 asking you Is Is that standard procedure for the 22 A I do know that a weapon was Involved with something
23 Sheriff's Office to call In a third agency to 23 with him, and I don't remember what It was about,
24 Investigate when there's a shooting? 24 but I do know -
25 A That question - that question was answered by the 25 Q What kind of weapon?
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sheriff. If anything goes on with the Jeff Davis
Sheriff's OffIce, we call the sheriff, and he makes
110
1
2
A I don't know. I don't even remember what It was
for.
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3 the decision of what we do. And he's the one that 3 Q This Is a report you heard of or something that you
4 made that decision. 4 yourself were Involved with?
5 Q Has there ever been any other shootings In the 5 A It's a report I've heard of. And I heard this
6 parish where the State Police have had to come In 6 report before the shooting. I want to say It was
7 and do the Investigation Of that shooting? 7 the same type of Incident we had there. He
8 MR. SCHROEDER: Officers Involved? You're 8 barricaded himself In a house with a weapon.
9 talking about a deputy Involved In a 9 Q So you seem to think that there was a previous
10 shooting? 10 episode Similar to thIs?
11 MR. SHELTON: Yes. 11 A Yes. I'm pretty sure I know there was.
12 A Since I worked at the Jeff Davis Sheriff's Offlce, 12 Q And you know, of course, when you say you know,
13 one. 13 apparently you heard It from some source?
14 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 14 A Yes.
15 Q When was that? 15 Q Do you have any Idea what the source was?
16 A Three or four - well, when I was a detective, so 16 A I've heard this source from Lake Arthur Police
17 It would have been at least five years ago In the 17 Department. And I remember the Incident. I Just
18 town of Welsh where a sheriff deputy was Involved 18 don't remember when It was, and I don't remember
19 In a shooting. And Louisiana State Police was 19 what happened. I Just remember - I remember that.
20 already on the scene, and they Investigated It. 20 I don't know If It's because they called me out on
21 Q Who was the deputy? 21 that and I didn't make It because It got resolved
22 A I think Ralph Broussard, but I don't know. He 22 before I got there or that It happened and after he
23 was - It was Welsh Police Department, their 23 got arrested, they called me to put him In jail and
24 Incident. They had the shooting, and he - they 24 they said, hey - they told me what happened. I

--- 25 all shot, and he was Involved In It. And I think

CHERYL VENABLE
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1 Q NOw, when you arrived at the scene, did you have 1 A He was resisting arrest by pointing a gun and
2 occasion to talk to Officer Laseter before you went 2 barricading himself In the house.
3 Into the house? 3 Q Resisting arrest by pointing a gun, Is that what
4 A Yes. 4 your statement Is?
5 Q And did Laseter tell you what time this alleged 5 A He resisted arrest by pointing a gun and
._" 6 barricading himself In the house.
6 pointing of the gun occurred?
7 A No. 7 Q What was he under arrest for that he resisted?
8 Q Old you come to ever find out what time that had 8 A I don't know. I'm assuming It was for the domestic
9 occurred? 9 battery complaint that they went out there for.
10 A No. 10 Q Who made the domestic battery complaint?
11 Q What time did you arrive? 11 A That would be his girlfriend, Lacoste.
12 A I don't know. I know I arrived fifteen minutes to 12 Q Were you told this?
13 twenty minutes after I was dispatched. I know that 13 A I was told this.
14 because that's how long it takes me to drive from 14 Q Old you get Information that there was a domestic
15 Welsh to Lake Arthur. 15 battery complaint made by his girlfriend?
16 Q So you had to come about twelve to fifteen miles, 16 A Yes,
17 something like that? 17 Q Is that a felony or misdemeanor?
18 A Yeah. Probably a little more than that, but yes. 18 A That's a misdemeanor.
19 Q So you arrived, and when you arrived there, did you 19 Q So was there any reason for you to think that he
20 ever find out from anyone what time this whole 20 had resisted any type of arrest when you arrived on
21 Inddent had taken over a period of time as to that 21 the scene?
22 time you arrived? 22 A Yes.
23 A No, I do not know. 23 Q Who told you that?
24 Q You didn't find out It had been going on for an 24 A Chief Vincent, Leland Laseter and Jared Manuel.
25 hour to an hour and a half? 25 Q Are you positive they told you that, or they Just
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1 A I dIdn't find out none of that. 1 told you that the gun had been pointed at Laseter?
2 Q None of that? 2 MR. SCHROEDER: Walt. Are you asking him
3 A None of that. 3 did they spedflcally use the term
4 Q Old you find out whether or not Officer Laseter had 4 resisting arrest or did he Interpret that?
5 had an opportunity to go and get a warrant for the 5 You may want to be more specific with your
6 arrest of Steven Gunter? 6 question.
7 A No. 7 MR. SHELTON: Well, let's be spedflc.
8 Q Old you find out whether or not there was any 8 MR. SCHROEDER: Please.
9 corroborating witness to what Officer Laseter says 9 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING)
10 was pointed at him when he came to the door? 10 Q Old they tell you he was resisting arrest?
11 A Yes. 11 A No, they did not tell me that.
12 Q Who was the corroborating witness? 12 Q That Is your Interpretatlon?
13 A Jared Manuel and Chief Vincent. 13 A Ves. My Interpretation Is they were going - they
14 Q You heard that from them? 14 were attempting to arrest him, and he resisted
15 A From them myself. 15 arrest.
16 Q Was there any reason that you knew of that they 16 Q I see. And he reSisted arrest by what reason and
17 didn't obtain a warrant for the arrest of this man? 17 how?
18 A Are you asking me If I know of any reason why they 18 A He resisted arrest by pOinting a gun at the
19 wouldn't have gotten a warrant for the arrest of 19 officers when they approached him -
20 this man? 20 Q I see.
21 Q Yeah. 21 A - to make the arrest.
22 A Because they didn't need an arrest warrant to 22 Q And that's the total grounds?
23 arrest him because he committed an act In front of 23 A Ves. That's why I was called out there.
24 them, and they were arresting him at that time. 24 Q And did anyone ever tell you that?
1"-" 25 Q I see. 25 MR. SCHROEDER: Tell him what?
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• 1" MR. SHELTON: What he's just said. 1 at the time, walked Into the office and met me.
2 MR. SCHROEDER: Well, we've already been 2 Q Now, before you went Into the house, did any
3 through this. He's told you at least two 3 officer superior to you arrtve?
4 or three times who told him about pointing 4 A No.
5 the gun. Are you asking a different 5 Q Was Officer Chad Romero your equal In rank or --
'-.- 6 question? I'm not understanding why we 6 A No.
7 keep going over the same thing. 7 Q -- Inferior? Or subordinate, rather?
8 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 8 A I am considered administrative part of the
9 Q All right. I'll cover Itthls way. 9 department. Chad Is considered a detective. And
10 A Okay. 10 we have a rank structure. If you look at It, It's
11 Q When you arrtved on the scene, did you know when 11 got the sherfff, the chief deputy underneath him.
12 you arrtved on the scene that there had been an 12 Then It's got chief criminal Investigator, warden,
13 alleged resisting of the arrest? 13 dvll chief deputy and 911 coordinator. Then you
14 MR. SCHROEDER: Are you saying once he 14 have those branches.
15 arrived or when -- 15 Q And you were the warden?
16 MR. SHELTON: At the time that he arrived. 16 A I am the warden. I'm administrative department.
17 A After I arrived on the scene and spoke to Chief 17 And I am administrator Into that department, and
18 Vincent and Detective Romero, I knew from talking 18 I - If the chief deputy aIn't there at the office
19 to them two that they were going to arrest him for 19 and somebody comes In with a complaint, I take
20 domestic battery called In by Lacoste, and he 20 their complaint or wherever the problem Is for
21 resisted by pointing a gun. Those words were not 21 whatever If the chIef deputy and the sheriff ain't
22 said by anybody, but I knew that that Is what 22 there. Or one of those other three can do that.
23 happened because of what they told me, that they 23 And If we - the only time they have rank over me
24 went there for a domestic call from her and they 24 Is If the chief - If I walk In the back office and
25 approached him and he pulled a gun. 25 the women are having problems with the tax divisIon
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1 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 1 and I'm assisting them, they will go over what I
2 Q Now, was Sheriff Edwards there? 2 tell them unless she walks In. And If she tells me
3 A No, sir, he wa. not. 3 to do something else, I listen to her because she
4 Q Old he ever arrtve? 4 I. over me for that division. Warren Gary, when he
5 A He never dId. 5 takes a crfmlnallnvestigatlon, he'. In charge of
6 Q He didn't arrive that day at all? 6 the criminal part. That's why he was over me at
7 A At all. 7 that time.
8 MR. SCHROEDER: We're talking about 8 Q With regard to the movement by you, which side of
9 arriving on the scene, I guess? 9 the house did you come up to to get to the back of
10 MR. SHELTON: Of course. 10 the house? On the west side or the east side?
11 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 11 A Westside.
12 Q We're at the scene of the Inddent. Old any 12 Q On the same --
13 officer superior to you arrtve at the scene? 13 A I'm sorry. When I first arrived?
14 A At a period of time, yes. 14 Q You were on the west side?
15 Q When? 15 A On the west side. I went around to the east side,
16 A After I was brought over to Lake Arthur Police 16 met with Detective Romero and the chief. And when
17 Department rfght after the shooting, right after 17 I decided to fill the gas Into the house, I started
18 Jared Manuel left In the ambulance, chief of 18 on the east side -- east south side window and
19 detectives at the time, Warren Gary, called my cell 19 worked my away around the whole house.
20 phone and said, "Are you all right?" I said, 20 Q All the way around the whole house?
21 "Ves." He said, "Get someone to take you out of 21 A Ves.
22 that area and brfng you to the police department." 22 Q And the south side Is the front portion of the
23 I said, "Okay." Detective Romero brought me there. 23 house where the front porch Is?
24 I walked In Chief VIncent's offtce. I stayed In 24 A Ves, sir.
r--- 25 there until Detective Warren Gary, chief detective 25 Q So you came to the south side, and you fired Into
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1 the house? 1 you go In a building. It affects my vision and my
2 A Yes. 2 breathing.
3 Q And that's the place where that sofa was, more or 3 Q And It would have affected Steven Gunter?
4 less? 4 A I Imagine It would have.

--. 5
6
7
A When you go on the east side, J assumed at the time
that the whole house In the front was the living
room. It's a small house. Come to find out later,
5 Q
6
7 A
Old you see whether or not Gunter had any kind of
gas mask on?
I didn't see that.
8 It was actually a bedroom, then a wall, the living 8 Q Old you see whether or not he had any towel over
9 room and kitchen. There's no wall separating It. 9 his face?
10 Then you got that same wall from the bedroom goes 10 A I did not see that.
11 down, separates the kitchen and the living room 11 Q Old anyone report to you that they had seen that?
12 from the utility room and the bedroom. 12 A I believe the State Police - a couple of days
13 Q So you shot five or six canisters of teargas Into 13 later they were telling me that they found a
14 the house? 14 suicide note, that they were trying to go In the
15 A Five, J think. 15 house stili, and they said there was stili so much
16 Q How much area does a typical canister envelope? 16 gas In there. And they said they found a blanket
17 A I don't know. 17 on the couch he was using to cover his face. That
18 Q But the house was pretty severely Impacted with the 18 came from one of the detectives from the State
19 teargas? 19 Police. And I don't know which one It was, but I'm
20 A Yes. 20 assuming It was lapointe.
21 Q And from the point of time that you fired your 21 Q Do you know If the policeman told you whether or
22 first cartridge to the time you fired your last 22 not that blanket that he found had any bullet holes
23 cartridge, were any shots fired at you? 23 In It?
24 A No. 24 A No. I don't know that.
25 Q During the time that you did that, were you under 25 Q Or any tears that looked like bullets ••
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1 cover? 1 A They didn't tell me.
2 A Yes. 2 Q •• or buckshot had passed through?
3 Q What were you under cover when you were on the west 3 A They didn't tell me that.
4 side? 4 Q They didn't tell you that?
5 A On the wast side of the house, there's a tree In 5 A They did not tell me that.
6 the yard. I stayed In that - behind that tree for 6 Q Do you know where that blanket Is?
7 cover. 7 A No, sir.
8 Q And you shot through a window? 8 Q Do you know where that rifle Is?
9 A Shot through the windows. 9 A No, sir.
10 Q You never missed through a window; you got them all 10 MR. SCHROEDER: What rifle are we talking
11 In the house? 11 about?
12 A Yes. It surprised me myself, but yes. 12 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING)
13 Q And do you have any other type of chemical that you 13 Q How many rifles were there?
14 were able to use to cause people to surrender other 14 MR. SCHROEDER: How many where?
15 than the teargas? 15 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING)
16 A I shot those five canisters or four canisters - It 16 Q At this house?
17 was four maybe - those canisters Into the windows. 17 A I do not know. I don't know how many rifles were
18 I came back around to the east side, busted out 18 In the house. I don't know how many weapons were
19 that window on the east south side. And we have 19 In the house. I know of one weapon that steven
20 teargas, smoke grenade, and I pulled It out and 20 Gunter had In his hand.
21 threw It In through the window. And It went off. 21 Q What was It? A rifle or a handgun?
22 Q And further causing vision to become very Impaired; 22 A That was a rifle. If you're asking me how long -
23 15 that correct? 23 MR. SCHROEDER: I'm going to object to
24 A I'm assuming that's what It does. I mean, I know 24 the •• I guess that's a question. I'm not
25 It would do It to me because we get certified and 25 sure. He hasn't said anything yet. let
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1 him ask the question. 1 A Yes. We have a Bushmaster 223. I thInk three
2 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 2 officers have them.
3 Q How long was the rifle? 3 Q Now, on this particular occasion, dId you ever know

4 A I don't know. 4 that Steven Gunter had ever fired thIs .22 caliber
5 Q What kind of rifle'1 5 rifle before?
6 A I don't know. 6 MR. SCHROEDER: Before what?
7 Q What caliber rifle? 7 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING)
8 A Do I know, or what I was told? 8 Q Anytime.
9 Q 00 you know? 9 A Before I got there?
10 A Well, I know what It Is today because of the State 10 Q Anytime from day one to the day he died, do you
11 Police telling me It was a .22 caliber rifle that I 11 know if he had ever flred that rifle?
12 took out of his hand and they went In the house and 12 A Yes, I do.
13 picked up. 13 Q How do you know that?
14 Q Old you know what It was before you went Into that 14 A I seen him.
15 house? 15 Q Where?
16 A I did not know. I know what I was told. 16 A I seen him In the living room of that house and In
17 Q What were you told? 17 the kitchen of that house.
18 A I was told It was an SKS. 18 Q Before you arrived there, had you ever seen him
19 Q What Is that? 19 fire that rifle?
20 A An SICS. 20 A No.
21 Q And what Is that? 21 Q Old you ever know that he had ever fired that
22 A That's some kind of assault rifle that shoots a 22 rifle?
23 high caliber round. 23 A Yes.
24 Q And who had told you that? 24 Q How?
25 A This was told to me by Chief Vincent, and she said 25 A Jared Manuel and Leland Laseter, after filling the
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1 she got that from Lacoste. Lacoste - I'm sorry. 1 house with gas, sitting In the back comer for
2 No. She got that from steven because she told me 2 cover, Chief Vincent talking tD him trying to get
3 that when the officer was making contact with him 3 him to come out, him telling us to leave, that he
4 that Steven said that he had a weapon. She said, 4 wanted to die, that's when J was Uke - J said,
5 "What kind?" He said, "An SKS." And Lacoste Is 5 "Well, golly. There's no way he can stay In there.
6 the one that told her that he has a .22 rifle. So 6 He must have shot himself or something." And
7 that's where we was when we got there. 7 that's when Leland and Jared Manuel said, "Before
8 Q Have you ever seen an SKS? 8 we approached him, he was coming through the back
9 A I have. 9 door. We heard a shot." And that's when we
10 Q Have you ever fired one? 10 said - they said somethIng like, there was shots
11 A I don't think so. 11 fired Dr whatever, and he - that's when he came
12 Q ls It a legal weapon that can be legally obtained 12 with the gun and pointed It at them. So I said,
13 by a dtlzen? 13 "You all heard a round fired?" They said, "Yeah."
14 A I believe so. I'm not going to answer that - say 14 I said, "Well, yeah, because he shot himself. n
15 yes because I don't know what the law Is, but I 15 Q Old you before this day, before June the 9th, did
16 know assault rifles, they've got so many bans now. 16 you ever get Information that he had ever fired
17 I don't know. 17 that weapon before?
18 Q Have you ever seen one In an arms store? 18 A Not that weapon.
19 A I've seen one In the police supply store. 19 Q Did you ever get Information that he had ever fired
20 Q Where Is that? 20 a weapon before?
21 A Barney's In Lake Charlu, but J have never seen one 21 A I have heard that he has had weapons before, and
22 In a pawnshop or anything Uke that. 22 Steven has told me that he has shot his weapons
23 Q 00 you all have those weapons In your department? 23 before. And that's general conversation. That
24 A No. 24 wasn't nothing -- for no reason at all. He was -
25 Q 00 you have any type of assault rifles? 25 he likes guns, and he was - one time we were
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Slreet
Lafayette, Louisiana 70508 Lafayette, Louisiana 70508
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t 0
1 you find that out?
1 talking, and he was asking me what kind of gun I
2 had, and he was telling me what kind of gun he had 2 A I know It was that day, but I didn't know what
3 and how he was a perfect shot or whatever. 3 time.
4 Q And how many guns did he tell you he had? 4 Q Do you know what he had been In jail for the night
5
--- 5
6
7
A This was quite some time bade. This was probably
when he was living across the street. I don't
remember what kind of gun he said he had, but he
6
7
A
before?
No. At the time - at the time he was arrested, I
thought It was for domestic violence, but I don't
8 was admIring my duty weapon, and he was telling me 8 know. Because the way they were talking, they was
9 something about he had the same kInd of weapon. 9 makIng It sound like he got arrested for fighting
10 And I don't remember what kInd of gun It was. I 10 with his girlfriend, and I assumed at the time It
11 know It wasn't the same gun I have now. And he 11 was for domestic, but I don't know.
12 saId he had one Just like It and he was a perfect 12 Q 50 you don't know what he was In jail for the night
13 shot because he goes and shoots all the time. 13 before?
14 Q And that's just him telling you that? 14 A No.
15 A Correct. 15 Q Have you ever determined as to whether or not there
16 Q Do you know how long he had had that .22 caliber 16 were any charges filed against him for him being In
17 rifle? 17 jail the night before?
18 A No, sIr. 18 A You're asking me do I know there was charges filed
19 Q Old you find any other weapons In the house? 19 agaInst him? Yes, I do know that.
20 A I dIdn't look for none. 20 Q And what were those charges?
21 Q Do you know If any were found In the house? 21 A r don't know.
22 A No, I do not know. I'm curIous myself because I 22 Q But you think there were some charges filed against
23 know that was said at the time that he had weapons 23 him?
24 In the house, and I never Inquired about It. 24 A r know there were some charges filed against him
25 Q Who said that? 25 because It was filed - I know this because It was
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette. Louisiana 70508 Lafayette. Louisiana 70508
(337) 234·5639 (337) 234·5639

"- 1
2
A
130
That was said by State Pollee Investigators and by
the Lake Arthur City Police.
1
2
filed by Chief Vincent - I'm sorry - by the Lake
132

Arthur Police Department because they told me that.

3 Q That he had other weapons In the house? 3 Q And he was released the next day?
4 A They had other - now, It was said that he had 4 A My understanding.
5 other weapons In the house, and during the 5 Q Do you know why he was released?
6 Interview, State Police asked me If I seen any, and 6 A No.
7 I told them no. But I waS curious If they had 7 Q Do you know whether or not at the time he was
8 other weapons, too, but I had never asked. 8 released whether or not he was released under some
9 Q And the report that you reviewed of the State 9 type of recognizance bond or ball bond or ••
10 Police, did It Indicate they had found any other 10 A No, sir.
11 weapons In the house? 11 Q •• just cut loose?
12 A I dId not read It that far to find out. 12 A I don't know, and I've always been wondering
13 Q Has Chief Vincent had an occasion to Interrogate 13 myself. I never .sked.
14 you as to what occurred? 14 Q Do you know what the standard operating procedure
15 A No, sIr. 15 Is for a person who has been charged and has been
16 Q She didn't take a tape from you? 16 placed In jail relative to him being released?
17 A A tape? 17 A I know--
18 Q A taped conversation with you? 18 Q As a warden you must know this?
19 A No. 19 A Yes. And I know that every Jail Is run different
20 Q Not that you know of? 20 from the state penItentiary to Lake Arthur Jail,
21 A I know she never taped a conversation. 21 all run different.
22 Q Old you find out that Steven had been In jail the 22 Q Let's talk about what you know.

_. 23
24 A
25 Q
night before?
I found that out when I got there.
And what time had he been released from jail; did
CHERYL VENABLE
23 A
24 Q
25
I know how my Jail Is run.
A person Is brought In to you at nine o'clock at
night and charges are flied and he's put In your
CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette. louisiana 70508 Lafayette, Louisiana 70508
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.'
1 Jail. What authority do you have to release this
133
1 A I ain't never said nothing.
2 person? 2 Q Old you ask him any questions whatsoever?
3 A None. 3 A I did not ask him, no.
4 Q When may you release this person? Under what 4 Q Old you hear anything asked of Steve In your
5 Circumstances? 5 presence --
6 A I only have authority to release a person out of 6 A Yes.
7 jail under the authority of the judge or dismissal 7 Q -- while you were close to the house?
8 of charges from the district attorney. 8 A Yes.
9 Q 00 you know whether or not there had been any 9 Q What did you hear and from whom?
10 authorization to release Steven from the Jail In 10 A I heard Cheryl Vincent, the chief, spealdng to
11 Lake Arthur on the morning of July -- June the 9th? 11 Steven Gunter.
12 A I don't know nothing about his release. 12 Q And where was she?
13 Q Old you ever ask about that? 13 A She was at the east southeast comer behind the
14 A I was curious about It, but I never asked. 14 truck making communication with him. That was
15 Q And you've not been told any kind of way that they 15 probably about ten feet away from the comer of the
16 Just picked him up, put him In jail and the next 16 house.
17 momlng let him out? 17 Q And did you hear what he said?
18 A I don't know why he was arrested, how long he was 18 A I could hear what they both said. I don't remember
19 arrested. I didn't even know - I knew he was In 19 the exact words, but I can tell you what I can
20 jail the night before, but I didn't know he was 20 remember what I heard them say.
21 arrested the night before. I didn't ask no 21 Q What?
22 questions about that. 22 A One, he - a couple of times In a row he said,
23 Q Old you ever hear anyone tell you that he was very 23 "Leave me alone. Let me die. Go home, and tell
24 quiet and his voice was so low you could hardly 24 Terrie Guillory I love him. I want him to go
25 hear him? 25 home."
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, Louisiana 70508 Lafayette, Louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639

'- 1 MR. SCHROEDER: At what pOint In time?

134
1 Q And anything else?
136

2 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 2 A ''You all go home." That's about It.

3 Q At any time. 3 Q Was there any other kind of measure that could have
4 A At any time? 4 been used that was at the disposal of the parish or
5 MR. SCHROEDER: At any time that he's 5 the Lake Arthur Pollee Department to overcome
6 known him? 6 Steven Gunter other than going Into the house with
7 MR. SHELTON: On this day. 7 shotguns?
e MR. SCHROEDER: What day? 8 A And that question Is so broad. You might as well
9 MR. SHELTON: The day of the shooting 9 ask me If God can come down and put religion In
10 InCident. 10 him. I mean, anything could have happened. I
11 A I know that he was real quiet and speaking low 11 could have drove that truck Into the front living
12 because I can hear him, but nobody said he's 12 room. So that's a question that - I mean, you're
13 speaking real quiet and real faint. 13 asldng a question -
14 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 14 Q As a policeman do you have anything at your
15 Q Nobody told you that? 15 disposal that could have Incapadtated him other
16 A Nobody told me that, but I can hear him. 16 than the use of teargas and the smoker grenade?
17 Q How close did you get to the house before you went 17 A No. Everything that I did that day Is what we had
18 In? 18 available as to techniques we use for these
19 A I was ten feet away from the house on the east 19 situations we run Into. Over the last twenty
20 south side. I came around and positioned myself at 20 years, It's always been done the same way, and It's
21 the back door. I was two feet from the comer of 21 stili done to this day.
22 the house. 22 Q You don't have In the parish any type of grenade
23 Q . NOW, before you went In the house, what did you 23 that contains a chemical that can cause a person to
24 ever say to Steven while you were outside of the 24 become semi anesthestlzed?
~ 25 house? 25 A That chemical Is what I use, and that would have
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
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Lafayette, louisiana 70508 Lafayette, Louisiana 70508
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8
1'" been the OC grenades and grenade launchers. 1 No one got hit. Oh, and a dog. I went to a call.
2 Q Do you know If that particular chemical Is a type 2 A dog bit a bunch of kids. It was a Great Dane
3 of chemical that causes disorientation In a person 3 type dog. When I got there and went to knock on
4 when Ingested? 4 the door, the dog came out of the house and came at
5 A I know what I felt when It got done to me, and you 5 me. I shot at the dog.
'-'
6 lose sight, breathing and disoriented. 6 Q Old you see a dog In this case?
7 Q So you know that this grenade Is used to cause a 7 A No.
8 person to become disoriented; Is that correct? 8 Q Old you hear about a dog being Involved In
9 A Disoriented as In losing balance. 9 something dealing with this Incident?
10 Q Thinking right, things like that? 10 A After the Incident was over, yes, sir.
11 A I wouldn't say It wouldn't make you think right. 11 Q What did you find out?
12 It didn't do that to me. 12 A I found out from the louisiana state Police
13 Q Who Is the manufacturer of that grenade; do you 13 Investigator that steven and Lacoste's house dog
14 know? 14 was found In a gully behind the house with a bullet
15 A I don't know. 15 In him.
16 Q Do you know what the chemical Is? 16 Q What kind of bullet?
17 A It's OC gas, but I don't know exactly what It Is. 17 A I don't know.
18 Q And the smoke grenade, do they have any chemical 18 Q But the police told you It was a bullet?
19 that Is any type of visual Irritant? 19 A The State Pollee Investigator told ma the dog was
20 A I'm pretty sure It Is because that's what It's for, 20 shot.
21 but I couldn't tell you. I do know -- I remember 21 Q Old you read that In the report?
22 putting all of that In the report, what exactly It 22 A No. I didn't go that far In It.
23 was. 23 Q So this shooting that took place In '92, who was
24 Q All right. You had occasion to speak with the 24 the person Involved in that, the other person, the
25 newspaper after this Incident? 25 other shooter?
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette. louisiana 70508 Lafayette. Louisiana 70508

_. 1 A No, sir.
(337) 234-5639
138
1 A
(337) 234-5639

I don't know. We never found him.

140

2 Q You read the articles In the local newspaper? 2 Q So he shot at you, you shot at him, and he got
3 A No, sir. 3 away?
4 Q You did not? 4 A Hegotaway.
5 A No, sir. 5 Q Any other Incidents where you have had to shoot at
6 Q Who Is the officer of the Sheriffs Office that 6 a suspect or shoot at a person who was suspected of
7 disseminates Information? 7 some violence or some crime?
8 A The sheriff himself. 8 A Not a human being, no.
9 Q Himself. All right. Is that a pOlicy, or that 9 Q Have you ever had to draw your weapon on other
10 Just happens to be how It happened In this case? 10 persons?
11 A I believe It's pOlicy because I do know that I or 11 A Yes.
12 anybody else equal with me or under me wouldn't 12 Q And who were they?
13 answer to the paper. The only one to do It Is the 13 A Numerous times. I really COUldn't give you names
14 chief deputy and the sheriff. And usually the 14 of people, but we - In law enforcement you draw
15 sheriff would comment to the press. I do know If 15 your weapon many a time when you're arresting a
16 anyone else would have, the sheriff would call them 16 violent suspect who you either believe to have a
17 In. He gives our press releases. 17 weapon or have a weapon.
18 Q Have you ever been Involved In a shooting before 18 Q Have you had to face down another person that had a
19 this date? 19 weapon?
20 A Yes. 20 A Yes.
21 Q Where? 21 Q Who?
22 A I worked for Jennings Pollee Department In -- I 22 A Several people. Are you talking about actually
23 don't know - '92, maybe '93, Involving a suspect 23
_.
pointed at me or just had It?
24 with a gun who was shooting on South Main. We got 24 Q Just had It.
25 there, pursued him. He shot at me. I shot at him. 25 A There's numerous people.
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, Louisiana 70508 Lafayette, Louisiana 70508
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<Jl'
1 Q Give me a few names, If you can remember. 1 BY MR. SCHROEDER:
2 A That's going to take me a while to think. Let me 2 Q Mr. GuillOry, when you confronted Steven Gunter In
think backwards. Let me see. Bradford Trahan who 3 the house, was he responsive to your words?
3
4 lives In Hathaway. I'm bad with names. A guy from 4 A Yes. When I walked In the house, I said, "Steven,
5 where are you?" And he saId, "Get out of my
.- 5
6
Lake Arthur. He was arrested a bunch of times. I
can't think of his name. This Is pIcking off the 6 house."
7 top of my head. Irvin Edwards. There's a bunch of 7 Q Old he appear to be off balance when he approached
8 them. 8 you?
9 Q That's two, and somebody from Lake Arthur. That's 9 A It was going on so fast I really couldn't tell you.
10 three. 10 Q Old you notice anything that would Indicate that he
11 A That's three. There's a bunch. I mean, sit there 11 was disoriented at any time during the time you
12 and naming - let's see. Who actually had weapons. 12 were In the house?
13 You know what I mean? There's a bunch. I'd have 13 A Besides the low tone of voice - he was talking,
14 to go back and look In all of the reports and pull 14 you know, real slow and low talking. Besides that
15 up names. 15 I really didn't spend enough time with him to take
16 Q The three that you named had guns or knives or 16 a look at his appearance.
17 sticks or what? 17 Q Do you know If this gas that was used affects
18 A Guns. I Just remember the ones that had guns. 18 everyone the same way?
19 Q Old any of those persons fire their weapon? 19 A I don'tthlnk It does.
20 A Not at me. 20 Q So can you tell us for certain that this gas
21 Q Old they fire theIr weapon? 21 affected Gunter In any way?
22 A I believe Irvin Edwards had fired his weapon on 22 A I couldn't tell It affected him In any way.
23 Main Street In JennIngs. The guy that I chased 23 MR. SCHROEDER: That's aliI have. Thank
24 after who I shot at. he fired a round at me, and I 24 you.
25 fired one at him. Bradford Trahan flred one at his 25 MR. WILKES: Walt. I do have one
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, Louisiana 70508 Lafayette, Louisiana 70508

,_. 1
(337) 234-5639

house. There was a bunch.

142
1
(337) 234·5639

question.
144

2 Q In all of those Inddents whenever there's a firing 2 EXAMINATION

3 that takes place, you have to fire, there's an 3 BY MR. WILKES:
4 Incident report made on that? 4 Q Officer, do you have a brother that's a police
5 A Yes. 5 officer?
6 Q When you have to draw your weapon, does that have 6 A Yes.
7 to be reported? 7 Q Was he out there on the scene that day?
8 A NO. 8 A No, sir.
9 Q And when you have a weapon drawn on you, does that 9 Q Okay. And you're sure about that?
10 have to be reported as a separate Incident or a 10 A June 9th Is his birthday. He was home. When the
11 separate logging mechanism Inside the -- 11 Incident happened, I sent my ex-wife -- and she's a
12 MR. SCHROEDER: You mean separate from the 12 police officer - to the house to wake him up and
13 arrest reports? 13 tell him what happened so he wouldn't hear It on
14 MR. SHELTON: Yes, sir. 14 the street. I know he was not there.
15 A No. 15 Q And your ex-wlfe's name?
18 MR. SHELTON: (CONTINUING) 16 A Paula Guillory. Paula Guidry Guillory.
17 Q That Is just contained within the arrest report? 17 MR. WILKES: Okay.
18 A Yes. Or the complaint report. If they get away 18 REEXAMINATION
19 or - a bunch of stuff could have happened. They 19 BY MR. SCHROEDER:
20 could have - you know, like Bradford Trahan, he 20 Q And what's his name?
21 shot a round In the house. It wasn't at us. Then 21 A Ivan Guillory.
22 we went In. 22 MR. SCHROEDER: Okay.
23 MR. SHELTON: All right. Fine. I have no 23 REEXAMINATION
24 further questions. Thank you. 24 BY MR. SHELTON:

-' 25 EXAMINATION
CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street
25 Q Let me go back and ask one question. From the time
CHERYL VENABLE
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145 147
1 you went Into the house after the back door was 1 CERTIFICATE
2 knocked In, how much time are we talking about 2
3 here? 3
4 A That's what's bad about time. In the heat of the 4 I, Cheryl Venable, Certified Court Reporter
5 moment time, It's hard to say because everything 5 (Certificate #89010) In and for the State of

---" 7
6 looks like It's so slow, but It actually happens so
fast. I know It was less than tlve minutes because
6
7
louisiana, do hereby certify that TERRIE GUILLORY,
having been first duly sworn to testify to the
8 a lot can happen In five minutes. A lot. I know 8 truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth,
9 It was less than tlve minutes, but more than thirty 9 did hereby testify as Is hereinabove set forth In
10 seconds. I do!''t know. It was all slow motion, 10 the foregoing 146 pages;
11 but It was actually all fast. 11 That the testimony was reported by me In
12 Q Have you ever had an occasion to study at any
12 shorthand (stenotype), and transcribed under my
13 schools that you've gone to the auditory and visual
13 personal supervision and direction, and that same

14 perceptions of how action occurs In the Interaction

14 constitutes a true and accurate transcription of
15 between victim and pOliceman or shooter and victim?
15 the testimony of the witness given at said time;

16 A I've never been to any actual schools where they

16 That I am not of counsel, not related to

17 17 counselor any of the parties hereto, and that

teach you about shooting a suspect or him shooting
18 I am In no way Interested In the ultimate
18 you or worldng that out, but that's - except maybe
19 disposition of this litigation.
19 In the academy. And the other stuff, I have
20 20
nothing like that. That's more like a
21
21 psychological thing, I guess.
22 Cheryl Venable
22 Q Well, In this particular Incident, do you feel It
Certlfled Court Reporter
23 was more like In slow motion, or was It fast fast? 23 State of louisiana
24 A I belleve-- 24
25 MR" SCHROEDER: You're talking about as he 25
CHERYL VENABLE CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street 113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, louisiana 70508 Lafayette, louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639 (337) 234-5639

"-" 1
2
was experiencing It?
146

MR. SHELTON: When he goes Into the house

3 to when It's all done and finished.
4 A It went pretty normal until the shooting started,
5 and It happened real fast., but my watching It was
6 aliin slow motion when I think about It, but I
7 know It was real fast.
8 MR. SHELTON: Okay. Thank you.
9 (DEPOSmON CONCLUDED AT 11:45 A.M.)
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
I'-'
25
CHERYL VENABLE
113 Fanny Street
Lafayette, louisiana 70508
(337) 234-5639
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 UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT52

4305111 - 2:9 action (3J - 11:7, annual 111 - 59:24 arrested (27J - 26:24,
# 4th,,) - 1:23 99:3, 145:14 answer Ita) - 4:19, 26:25, 27:1, 27:3,
118901011) -147:5 activities II) - 10:24 18:13,23:17,37:24, 27:9,27:10,27:11,
44:15, 44:22, 46:5, 30:1,30:2,30:16,
• 5 actlvlty(11-19:17
35:23, 35:24, 40:24,
actual [3J - 56:7, 46:8,46:19,46:23,
5111- 3:3 43:4, 44:25, 49:9,
'07111- 62:15 57:11,145:16 47:12,49:6,59:16,
50111- 72:9 84:23, 84:24, 105:12, 49:22, 50:7, 50:9,
'88 (3J - 6:5, 6:14, address (2J - 50:20,
52548111- 2:4 106:21, 126:14, 95:25,112:23,131:6,
11:2 66:2
'92 (2J - 138:23, admInistration 111- 138:13 131:9,133:18,
139:23
6 12:9 answered 121- 133:19,133:21,141:5
'93111- 138:23 60121- 71 :25, 72:5 adminIstrative 121 - 105:14, 109:25 arresting 121 -
'97 "0) - 11 :3, 18:2, 65"1-38:2 119:8,119:16 answering "1- 114:24, 140:15
19:9, 19:12,22:13, administrator 111- 47:14 amt&ts J41- 49:7,
32:2,51:1,93:3, 7 119:17 answers 111- 4:16 55:1,59:14,60:2
95:17 admIring 111-129:8 Anytlmel21- 127:8, amve (7) - 63:17,
70121- 71 :25, 72:5
'98 [5J - 18:2, 19:10, affairs 121- 11 :11, 127:10 99:16,113:11,118:4,
70112(11- 2:13 118:6,118:13,119:3
19:12, 19:13, 32:3 11:14 apart 111- 73:13
70502-430511, - 2:9
affected (3) -123:3, apartments 111- arrived P3J - 28:1,
70505(11- 2:5 29:8, 29:21, 83:16,
1 143:21, 143:22 22:4
affects (2J - 123:1, appaarll) - 143:7 63:19,87:23,87:25,
10(21- 64:8, 64:18 8 143:17 appearance 111- 88:4, 88:5, 92:20,
100(1) - 72:9 113:1,113:12,
8111-19:11 affiliation 121 - 46:3, 143:16
100011) - 2:8 anno 11) - 5:14 113:19,113:22,
46:17 appeared 111- 36:18
11:45,,)-146:9 115:20,117:11,
agencies (2\- 99:24, apples 11) - 57:18
125011) - 2:13 117:12, 117:15,
1328,,) - 2:4
9 99-.25 application 11) - 6:16
agenCY(3J - 23:12, approached 181- 117:16,117:17,
14111- 70:16 91111) -119:13 120:13, 127:18
99141-70:12,70:14 34:13,109:23 71:17,73:7; 116:19,
14211) - 3:4 117:25,128:8,143:7 amvlng (2J - 65:10,
9:05 (11- 1:24 aggravated 111-
14311) - 3:4 118:9
9th 131- 128:15, 83:12 appropriate 121 -
144121 - 3:5, 3:5 92:15,92:17 Arthur (49) - 5:9,
"'-'" 133:11,144:10 ago (18) - 24:23,
148(1) -147:10 5:11, 5:16, 10:8, 24:6,
29:10,30:6,31:4, approximation 111-
161511) - 2:13 31:19,42:17,54:22, 39:16 24:7,24:11,25:14,
1988111- 7:15 A 56:2, 58:7, 58:20, area [71- 72:20, 26:17,26:18,29:14,
199714)-9:14,10:4, A.M 111- 146:9 66:9, 72:3, 85:5, 85:6, 76:20, 76:21, 77:20, 30:3, 50:7, 52:22,
93:2,95:13 a.m 111- 1:24 110:17 102:3, 118:22, 121:16 53:1.61:12,61:19,
ability 131- 48:2, agree"I- 93:23 arm (141- 85:21, 61:21,62:1,83:10,
2 48:4,60:5 agreed 121- 4:3, 4:9 85:22,86:4,88:7, 63:13,63:15,64:6,
200121- 2:4, 2:8 able 14) - 81:16, ahead 111- 29:5 101:19,101:20, 65:1, 65:4, 65:11,
81:18,106:10,122:14 Aiming 111- 77:12 101:21, 104:10, 65:19,69:17,70:15,
2000 111- 22:13
above-entltled 111 - aln'(3J -119:18, 104:18,105:11, 70:18,70:19, 72:17,
2004121- 32:4, 51:1
1:20 119-.21, 135:1 105:18, 105:19, 99:9, 99:12, 99:14,
2005(1) - 32:4
abu88 (2) - 13:2, Ai.(2)-1:9,1:12 105:20,106:2 99:19, 103:15,
2007181- 62:17,
13:5 armed 111- 65:7 103:18, 109:7,
62:18,93:4,95:18, alcohol (1) - 94:18
academies 121 - armorlll-101:5 112:16,113:15,
95:22, 95:23 alcoholic [2J - 94:12,
17:13,38:16 arms [1) -126:18 118:16, 130:2, 132:2,
2009111- 1:23 94:25
academy 112/ - 7:25, 132:20,133:11,
214111 -1:22 alive 111- 101 :10 arrest [37J - 27:14,
12:24, 54:8, 54:9, 27:19,27:24,29:7, 136:5,141:5,141:9
22 (7J - 88:12,86:13, allegation (11 - 29:4
55:21, 57:22, 58:6, 40:9,40:10,43:12, ARTHUR [11- 2:10
105:25,125:11, alleged 12/ - 1 ~ 3:5,
58:21, 59:3, 59:5, 45:1, 49:25, 54:3, Arthur's (1) - 62:8
126:6, 127:4, 129:16 117:13
145:19 65:22, 82:20, 82:21, articles [11- 138:2
223111-127:1 allowed [11- 46:1
Academy 14) - 5:17, 82:22,83:9,114:6, assault (41- 83:12,
almost 111 - 69:25
7:18, 13:8, 61:4 114:17,114:19, 125:22, 126:16,
3 Acadian 111-104:12
alonBll)-135:23
114:22,114:23, 126:25
302111 -5:9 ALSO "1- 2:16 ass)stancell) - 65:4
aCC88811) - 66: 10 ambulance 11) - 115:1,115:3,115:5,
35111- 72:12 accredIted (3)- 57:2, 115:7,115:20,116:4, assistant (2)- 6:13,
118:18
380121- 70:13 57:4,57:21 118:10,116:14, 68:21
Ambulance (1) -
accurateI11-147:14 116:15,116:16, asslsUng 111- 120:1
104:12
4 actI11-114:23 American 111- 26:17 116:18, 116:21, assocIaUons (11-
acted 111- 55: 18 117:13,117:19, 57:21
4,00011) - 50:19 anesthestlzed 111-
40 [11- 72:12 acting 111- 37:12 142:13, 142:17 assume [11- 72:8
136:24

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 UNceR1lFIEO ROUGH DRAFT52

assumed (2) - 121 :5, barricaded (8) - beyond (1) -12:5 BRYANT (1) - 2:18 85:14,121:22, 121:23
131:10 65:5,65:6,65:7, bicycle III - 9:19 buckshot I8J - 86:21, cartridges 111- 88:2
assum)ng 111- 65:22,65:25.112:8 big (2)- 8:13, 72:6 86:25, 87:5, 87:20, c:aae(14) - 58:19,
40:23, 79:9. 79:14, barricading (2) - b)rth II) - 5:13 124:2 67:6.67:7,67:12,
85:21, 85:23. 85:25, 115:2.115:6 birthday 11)- 144: 10 building (3) - 58:22, 67:15,67:16,67:18,
115:8,122:24.123:20 barroom 1') - 94:20 bit PI- 7:16, 75:10, 56:23, 123: 1 67:21, 67:22, 68:8,
ATI1)-146:9 bars (3) - 28:11, 139:2 bullet (8) - 85:11. 109:16, 138:10, 139:6
attached (2) - 87:12. 26:14.26:16 blanket 13) -123:16, 85:13,105:20. cases (2)- 59:6
102:2 Baslcll)- 9:16, 123:22,124:6 105:25.123:22, category 11) - 12:7
attemptll)-103:10 12:19 Bliss (2) - 70:4, 70:7 139:14,139:16, caught 11)- 103:5
attempting (3) - basic (8)- 7:25, block (1)- 99:2 139:18 caused (2) -10:12,
65:21,83:9.116:14 31:16,54:7,54:8. blondell)- 42:16 bulletproof [41 - 40:7
attend (21- 5:15, 54:9,55:21 blonde-headed 11)- 89:10,90:3,91:9. causes [11 - 137:3
17:13 basis [2J - 59:25, 42:16 101:6 causing 11)-122:22
attended 11)- 55:8 61:20 blood (2) - 16:20, bullets (2J - 78:5, CCR (2J - 1:21, 2:22
attomey (4)- 28:24, bathroom (2J - 36:16 123:25 cellll)-118:19
66:6,68:15,133:8 75:21.76:19 blue 11) - 99:20 bunch 115) - 5:19, certain (5)-16:4,
attomey'sll) - 109:1 battered 11) - 13:3 Bo 11) - 32:17 12:16, 13:4,30:14, 55:17.107:6,143:20
Attomey's (1) - battery (8) - 20:20, body (2) -11:17. 59:18, 78:4, 79:17. certlflcatel11- 58:1
86:12 83:10.115:9,115:10. 87:15 111:2,139:2,141:5. CertlflcateI1)-
audiotape II) - 67:1 115:15,117:20 bond (2) - 132:9 141:7.141:11. 147:5
audiotapes [21- beater[2J - 44:18, booked [11- 30:19 141:13,142:1.142:19 certificates (3)-
66:16 44:19 booklet [I) - 51 :24 Bushmaster (1) - 55:5,60:12, 60:13
aud)tory 11) - 145: 13 became 181 -19:1, books (2) - 13:23, 127:1 certification (2) -
aught (4] - 86:24. 19:2,19:5,31:3, 13:25 busln88sl21 - 33:13, 4:15,55:22
86:25, 87:4, 87:20 31:17.32:3 BORNE 111- 2:7 33:14 certified (7J - 33:6.
August 11) - 6:14 become 111) - 9:8, bottle 11) -16:17 busted 11)-122:18 33:9.54:8,56:10,
authority (3)- 133:1, 9:11,15:5,17:17, BoxI11-2:9 BY (8) - 2:3, 2:8. 56:15,57:23,122:25
133:6, 133:7 19:7.19:15,50:25, boy 11)- 6:12 2:12, 2:22, 5:5, 143:1, Certified (3) - 5:17,
authorization (1) - 59:9,122:22,136:24, Bradford (3) -141:3, 144:3,144:19.144:24 147:4, 147:22
133:10 137:8 141:25, 142:20 certify (1) - 147:6
authorized (1) - 4:7 bedroom (4) - 76:21, brags 111 - 44:24 C Chad (301 - 63:8,
automatic (1) - 61 :20 121:8,121:10,121:12 branches It)- C-488-(811)- 1:10 64:13, 65:16, 65:18,
automatically (11 - been4)- 26:10. 119:14 65:23.66:20.69:10.
C8lcasleu 11) - 13:8
62:1 26:11.26:12.94:21 break[2l- 74:23. 75:3,76:24,78:11.
callber(7J - 86:14,
Automobile 121- beginning (3) - 1:23. 74:25 90:22.125:7,125:11. 78:14. 78:18. 89:3.
9:17,9:20 55:24.95:12 BREAKI11-111:16 125:23.127:4.129:16 89:11.89:14,89:17.
autopayPl- 87:11, behave 111 - 36:7 breathing 121 - 89:19,89:21,98:7.
calm (2) - 36:7. 38:8
87:12, 87:16 behaving (1) - 37:10 123:2, 137:6 98:21.101:2, 101:6,
can)ster (1)- 121: 16
avatlablel1) -136:18 behavior (1)- 28:21 Brian [5J - 64:15, 102:24, 103:6,
canisters Ie) - 81 :25,
Avenue p) - 5:9, behind (21) - 71: 11. 66:22, 71:14. 73:3, 91:2.121:13,122:16, 103:16, 103:23.
70:18.70:19 71:15,71:20,72:20. 73:4 122:17 103:25.119:5,119:9
aware (1)- 24:1 73:1, 73:3. 73:4, 78:4, BRIEF (11 - 11 :23 chamber (4)- 80:6,
cannot 111 - 107:12
78:5. 78:8. 78:9, bring 141 - 89:1, 89:4. 80:10,80:12,80:18
capacity (2) - 17:21,
B 78:22. 91 :1, 96:20. 89:24, 118:22 charge 11)-120:5
63:6
96:25, 97:8. 102:25, bringing II) - 89:20 charged [11-132:15
backwards [2J - carrI4)- 27:13,73:1.
122:6.135:13, 139:14 broad (I) - 136:8 charges(7J-131:16,
78:3,141:3 73:3,73:4,73:10,
bellets (2) - 46:22, broke 11) -74:19 131:18.131:20.
bad [3J -15:19, 73:22.88:7,88:8,
47:3 131:22,131:24.
141:4,145:4 brother 11) - 144:4 88:10,88:19.89:7,
belong 111 - 45:19 132:25,133:8
ball 111 - 132:9 brought (8) - 23:14, 89:25.90:1.104:2
Benny 111 - 107:20 31:21.88:10.89:8, CHARLES 11) - 2:18
balance (2J -137:9, care(11- 57:18
best 14) - 48:2. 48:4. 89:11,118:16, Charles 113) - 5:18,
143:7 caring Ii) - 48:21
107:10,108:11 118:23, 132:24 9:1.12:22, 12:23.
band 121- 61 :20, Carl 111- 17:2
between J8I - 4:4, Broussard (2) - 12:24.23:8, 32:17.
62:9 Carrol 12) - 7: 13.
4:10,34:4.41:22, 110:22,111:1 54:9. 55:22. 56:23.
bans 111 -126:16 10:20
73:18.87:24,96:11, Bruchhaus (1)- 1:22 57:4.57:23.126:21
"--.-" Baril) - 26:17 145:15
carry (1) - 28:6
chased Ii) - 141:23
bar(2J- 94:20, 95:24 Bruner(7J - 42:7. cars (2) - 69:20,
Between (1) - 65:10 42:8,42:14,42:15, check (2) - 39:25,
barbecuell)- 26:7 69:23
beverage "1 - 94:12 42:24. 43:2, 43:3 68:9
Barney's 11) -126:21 cartrIdge (4) - 85:12,
beverages [i) - 95:1 checking II) -104:5

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 UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT52

chemical (7] - 55:8,59:19 53:8,53:8 9:9,9:10,12:3,20:24, dating (1) - 33:17

'''-' 122:13, 136:23, clear(l) - 95:17 c:onsclence (1) - 28:2,34:5,37:7,39:7, daughter (11- 25:8
136:25,137:2,137:3, Clemon I2J - 64:2, 48:8 48:5,49:7,49:10, Davia (30) - 5:21,
137:16, 137:18 68:24 c:onsldered (2) - 50:23,74:20,83:3, 10:3,14:21,14:22,
CHERYL (2) - 2:17, close 15) - 84:8, 119:8,119:9 94:7,102:21,122:23, 14:24,15:25,16:23,
2:22 84:11,105:8,134:17, c:onstltutes (1) - 137:8 17:1,17:6,18:9,30:4,
Cheryl (5) - 1:21, 135:7 147:14 Correct 12] -12:4, 32:12, 32:13, 32:18,
66:20, 135:10, 147:4, coaching (11 - 28: 17 c:onstltutlonal 131 - 129:15 33:9,35:10,50:10,
147:22 Code (11- 4:7 13:18,59:13,60:1 c:orroboratlng 12] - 56:18,57:25,59:20,
CHIEF (11- 2:17 coming (6) - 68: 11, c:onsumed [11- 95:1 114:9,114:12 60:3, 60:4, 63:21,
chief (25) - 7:10, 73:22, 102:24, 103:4, contact (61- 63:12, couch (8J - 77:5, 65:5,66:11,108:16,
7:12,8:20,10:14, 128:8 67:5,69:18,74:13, 77:6,100:14,102:3, 109:8,109:11,110:1,
10:17,10:18,10:19, c:omment 11) - 74:16, 126:3 107:11,123:17 110:12
10:20,52:21,53:1, 138:15 Contact (1)- 63:14 coughing [11- 103:1 . DAVIS 13) -1:2,1:12,
53:7,67:17,,68:17, committed (4)- c:ontacted I2J - counsel (8] - 4:4, 2:14
68:19, 118:18, 58:13,83:6,83:12, 65:18,99:8 4:10,28:17,28:21, days (7] - 41 :7, 49:4,
118:25,119:11, 114:23 c:ontalned 11) - 147:16,147:17 50:19,50:22,93:24,
119:12,119:13, commonly [11- 32:8 142:17 Counselor [11- 94:8,123:12
119:18,119:21, communication [11- c:onta[ners [11- 28:14 Deadly (1) - 92:13
119:24,120:16, 135:14 65:25 c:ount (11- 87:17 deadly (7) - 58:12,
135:10, 138:14 c:ommunlcatlons 11) c:ontalns (11- 136:23 couple 181- 22:5, 92:1,92:5,92:8,92:9,
Chlefp.q-17:5, -65:12 CONnNUING 1441- 26:8, 68:6, 80:8, 92:16,92:17
52:15,52:21,53:10, complaint (7] - 11:24,14:23,18:19, 123:12, 135:22 dealing \81- 20:17,
53:16,53:19,53:22, 41:19,115:9,115:10, 29:6,31:10,35:8, c:ourse(GJ - 37:3, 51:3,51:7,54:3,
66:20, 67:22, 68:7, 115:15,119:19, 42:13,46:10,46:13, 40:25,55:1,67:12, 54:19,55:1,69:7,
68:25,71:11,71:17, 119:20, 142:18 46:20,47:1,47:18, 112:12,118:10 139:9
71 :20, 72:20, 73:8, complaints (5J - 51:6,52:5,55:7,56:6, c:ourses(ll- 54:18 death (2) - 94:2,
73:25,82:7,82:15, 10:23,11 :4,41:12, 57:17,59:2,62:16, court [2] - 4:17, 111:4
83:24,84:6,84:7, 41:18,41:21 62:22, 68:3, 71 :3, 31:1,4 decldedI11-120:17
84:8,84:14,84:16, completely (11 - 74:22,80:23,83:20, COURT!11-1:1 decision (3) - 58:16,
88:9,114:13,115:24, 80:12 93:6, 95:8, 98:2, Court PI - 58:16, 110:3,110:4
117:17,118:24, components [11 - 102:19, 105:16, 147:4, 147:22 dedicated 11) - 8:3
125:25, 128:2, 7:4 108:~2, 110:14, cover (13)- 71 :14, deep (11- 72:9
130:13,132:1 c:ompulalve [2] - 111:17,116:9,117:8, 71:17,73:1,73:3, defeat (2) - 53:5,
child I2J - 43:5 43:19,44:3 118:1,118:11, 73:7,74:2,96:20, 53:8
children [2J - 24:24, conc:em I2J - 41:21, 124:12, 124:15, 117:9,122:1,122:3, definition (11- 47:23
25:3 68:7 125:2,127:7,134:2, 122:7,123:17, 128:2 Della'a (1) - 26:17
Chris (1) - 64:3 c:onc:emed 12] - 47:2, 134:14,142:16 CPR(11-103:11 denominated (1) -
Christian (1] - 46:15 49:4 c:onversatlon [8J - crlmel2J -109:12, 21:1
church 14) - 45:19, conc:emlng (51 - 67:20,69:15,89:5, 140:7 denomination 11i -
45:21,46:11,46:14 14:3,20:21,46:21, 128:23,130:18, criminal (10) - 19:17, 46:15
church8l12J - 45:22, 53:23,65:12 130:21 54:19,56:19,60:15, DEPARTMENT 11) -
45:23 c:oncamsll)- 51:24 cooking (1) - 26:7 60:18,60:23,108:15, 2:10
circumstances PI - CONCLUDED (1) - cooperate(t)- 35:19 119:12,120:5,120:6 department (12) -
25:13,69:7, 133:5 146:9 cooperated [11- curious [31 • 129:22, 11 :8, 14:8, 36:2,
citizen (11- 126:13 conclusion 11)- 38:3 35:20 130:7,133:14 61:13,70:19,103:15,
citizenry 11) - 13:20 condlUon 111 - 29:22 Cooperative It) - current 111 - 60:1 103:24,118:22,
Clty(5J - 51:12, conducted (3) - 38:9 custody (3)- 25:3, 119:9,119:16,
56:21,98:25,99:11, 11:16,32:11,86:20 CCH)perathfeI41- 25:5,25:6 119:17,126:23
130:2 confrontational (7] - 35:16,35:18,35:22, cut 11)-132:11 Department [33J -
city I2J - 55:25, 70:9 20:17,20:22,20:23, 36:4 5:20.6:15,6:17,6:21,
civil PI- 8:22, 8:24, 33:6, 51 :8, 53:25 coordinator (1) - 0 7:12,7:18,7:20, 10:2,
119:13 c:onfrontatlons 11) - 119:13 10:6,10:11,11:4,
DA'. [1) - 66:13
Civil (1) - 4:7 14:15 cOPY(tl-14:6 12:1,12:6,14:1,14:3,
Daltonp) -10:16,
claas(7] - 6:2, 7:22, confronted 111- comer(7] - 69:21, 14:17,14:18,50:8,
7:24,20:5,54:12, 10:21
143:2 69:22,99:2,128:1, 61:13,61:20,63:13,
......... 54:14, 56:10 134:21. 135:13,
Dane 111-139:2
63:16.65:20,99:9,
Congress (11 - 2:8 Danny 11)- 34:22
cl88888 (9) -12:16, connection (2)- 135:15 99:19,109:8,109:9,
13:22,20:4,20:19, c:oroner[l) -15:21 date [S) - 5:13,19:8, 110:23,112:17,
4:13,34:4
20:20,54:16,55:3, 31:17,62:18, 138:19
Conner 131 - 53:2, c:orract (19) • 8:7, 118:17,132:2,136:5,

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 UNCeRTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT52

133:8 drew PI - 107:7, 141:22

.--- 138:22
DEPOSmON 121-
1:16,146:9
dIed Itl-127:10
different lSI - 10:18,
36:20,117:5,132:19,
DISTRICT (11 - 1:1
disturbance [11 -
107:9, 107:14
drfnk (2) - 94:11,
eight 121- 8:3, 52:20
elght·hour [I) - 8:3
Deposition [11 - 4:6 132:21 27:17 95:5 either (101 -12:9,
deposition [15) - dIploma [2) - 9:5, divisIon 113/ -12:8, drinking [7J - 27:20, 17:24, 23:3, 23:7,
1:19,4:5,4:12,4:14, 20:6 12:9,19:5,31:25, 36:14,48:17,94:21, 27:16,27:20,29:17,
28:20, 68:5, 67:8, dIplomas 111 - 20:8 32:14, 34:18, 34:23, 94:22, 94:24, 95:24 40:13, 54:19, 140:16
67:9,68:12,68:13, direct [11 - 91 :22 56:19,65:24,107:23, drinks 121 - 26:9, elevated "1-17:20
68:17,68:18,68:21, d[rectlon 111 -147:13 108:15,119:25,120:4 95:10 eleven 121- 49:17,
68:22,69:3 dIrectIons (11- divorce 111- 24:22 drlvel2l- 71 :22, 49:18
deputies 11) - 111:2 106:14 divorced (1) - 24:18 113:14 emploY(II-12:6
deputy It3[ • 22:22. directly 121- 27:23, Dixie (11- 6:10 driver's It) - 73:21 employed (2J -
23:3,32:24,67:17, 62:9 doctor (4) -15:18, driveway's (11 - 73:6 25:10,98:25
68:17,110:9,110:18, disagreements [i) - 15:19, 15:22 Drop [S) -100:12, employees (11 • 39:3
110:21,119:11, 10:10 dog 1B1-139:1, 100:13,100:15, employment [8J -
119:13,119:18, discharge "1 - 96:3 139:2,139:3,139:4, 100:18,100:19 6:7,7:17,10:12,11:3,
119:21,138:14 discover 111 - 34:25 139:5,139:6,139:8, drOPll)-100:16 11:22,15:13
Deputyll)-17:5 dlacuss (3) - 35:2, 139:13,139:19 dropped Ii) -100:7 empty til - 80:6
deputy'sll)- 68:19 67:5,67:7 Domestic [11 - 13:2 drove [8J - 69:18, enactments (3) -
Derrfck (B) - 66:21, discussed 161 - dome8tlc(12) -13:5, 69:19,69:20,70:13, 56:7, 57:20,58:3
68:24,78:18,98:7, 59:13,66:6,67:12, 20:20,27:17,43:10, 70:14,136:11 end 11) - 55:9
98:23,98:25,101:2, 67:15,67:16 83:10,115:8,115:10, . drug [8J -15:15, enforcement 191 -
101:7,102:25 discussion 11) - 115:14, 117:20, 15:24.27:18,27:21, 5:19, 7:25, 9:16,
Descrtbep) - 98:19, 13:15 117:24,131:7,131:11 43:11,44:6 38:18, 45:4, 54:7,
98:21, 98:23 DISCUSSION '21 - done 'H) - 56:10, drunk (2J - 27:16, 54:8,91:19, 140:14
describe 121- 29:22, 35:7,55:6 56:15,56:20,61:6. 44:12 engaged (2) - 28:21,
42:14 dlsm)ssalll) -133:7 72:3,77:16,80:17. dryerli)-75:19 97:10
Deshotel [i) -17:3 disorientation "1- 136:20,136:21, duly 121- 5:2, 147:7 enter "1 - 82:23
..•-.......-. detail ISI- 35: 17, 137:3 137:5, 146:3 Dupuis 121- 17:5, entered 121 - 83:11,
64:7,64:12.64:14, disoriented (3)- door [10) - 73:21, 68:20 88:1
108:2 137:6, 137:8, 143:11 75:13,75:16,75:24, During 12) - 25:24. entire (3) - 11 :2,
detect'vel'8) -12:8, Disoriented II) - 76:2, 76:3, 76:23, 121:25 11:25,39:6
19:5, 19:6, 19:7. 137:9 78:7,78:14,84:15, during ,,3) -10:22. entitled (2J - 1:20.
19:15, 22:19, 32:5, dispatch (3) - 29:17, 87:25. 103:3, 103:5, 11:2. 11:25, 13:9, 58:16
34:7. 34:9, 38:22. 61:19,65:1 114:10,128:9, 17:12, 32:7, 35:14, entry (4) - 75:1, 75:2.
50:25, 59:11, 62:23, dlspatch-wl.e,.) - 134:21. 139:4, 145:1 39:20,50:14,51:1. 75:4,91:23
83:1. 107:22, 109:13, 29:17 doorwaYI2I- 75:18, 95:22, 130:5, 143:·11 envelope II) -
110:16,118:25,119:9 dispatched [8J - 77:1 duties (4) - 8:7, 31:8, 121:16
Detective (22J - 61:21,62:9,83:19, dot 11)-107:14 31:12,31:13 episode 11) -112:10
34:22,64:13.65:16, 63:21.64:6,113:13 double (4) - 86:24, duty (11 -129:8 equal (2) - 119:5,
65:18, 66:20, 86:21, dlspatche,,41 - 86:25, 87:4, 87:20 DWI,,) - 12:25 138:12
71:12,71:18,71:19, 63:22, 65:2, 65:3, down liS) - 36:7, dynamIc [71 - 13:12, eqUipment 121-
73:7,75:3,82:7, 65:9 40:6,56:22,70:14, 51:25,52:4,52:7, 88:21,90:8
82:15,83:24,89:3, dispatchers II) - 75:17,75:21,76:18, 55:17,56:7,57:5 especially Ii) - 59:19
102:24, 108:17, 63:25 76:21,100:14, ESQ PI- 2:3, 2:8,
109:14, 117:18, 101:23, 102:4,
118:23, 118:25,
dispatches II) -
102:20, 103:5, 108:2,
E 2:12
61:18 e.tlmate (i) - 72:14
120:16 108:6,121:11,136:9, early (5) - 18:2,
dlspatch)ng (2) - ET(2) -1:9,1:12
detectives (4) - 140:18 19:10.19:12.32:2
64:1,64:2 Eunice (I) - 61 :2
59:26,67:17,118:19, Dr (4) -16:1, 16:3, Early (1) - 19:9
dIsposal 121 - 136:4, East (I) - 1:22 evidence (11- 86:13
123:18 136:15 16:8,16:11
east (9) -120:10, ex (41- 22:4, 24:15,
determination (3) - dIsposition /11- drag ") - 70:18 144:11,144:15
37:6,85:8,97:15 drank (4) - 26:10, 120:15,120:18,
147:19 ex-glrlfrlend II) -
determine (11 - 86:21 26:11,26:12,94:18 121:5,122:18,
disseminates [I) - 122:19,134:19, 22:4
determIned II) - 138:7 draw (4) - 107:2,
135:13 ex-wlfel11 -144:11
131:15 distance (5J - 72:16, 140:9, 140:14, 142:6
edge (2J - 71 :23, ex-wlfe'sl2l- 24:15,
dIagram 121- 107:3, 72:18,73:6,74:2, Drawer 11) - 2:4
72:10 144:15
107:7 74:4 drawings ") - 87:14
Edwards (5J -14:25, exact (3) - 72:2, 72:4,
dlePl-100:2,128:4, DIstrict (11- 68:11 drawn (I) - 142:9
17:1,118:2,141:7, 135:19
135:23 district (2) -109:1, dressed [I) - 64:9 Exactly 12) - 20:14,

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 UHCERTlFIEO ROUGH 0AAFT62

50:24 97:22, 134:19, 141:25 fortyl11- 8:16 13:23,13:24,14:2,

"-0 exactly (141- 13:21, 134:21,135:15 flremenI1,-103:19 Forty (11- 90:22 35:10,43:1,55:14,
22:6,25:19,31:3, Feet [11-73:12 firing [11 - 142:2 fought [11 - 35:24 67:1, 147:15
55:4, n:18, 78:17, feetoWlse 111 - 72:22 FIRM Itl- 2:3 Four PI - 24:23, Glock 111- 90:22
86:5,95:5,105:24, fellowpl-11:19, First 111 - 56:13 25:4,49:8 goatee 111- 42:16
106:20, 108:5, 12:2,42:18 FIRST(1)- 1:1 fourl13] - 8:12, 31:5, God 11,- 138:9
137:17, 137:22 felony 15) - 27:19, first 134'- 5:2, 6:6, 31:18,31:20,42:15, golly 11,- 128:5
EXAMINAnON PI- 83:6, 83:12, 109:12, 6:8,7:16,10:19, 49:12,50:22,62:18, Grab 111-103:1
5:4, 142:25, 144:2 115:17 10:20, 22:15, 24:4, 98:22,98:23,110:16, grabbed (3)- 100:24,
Examlnatlon PI- felt 11)- 137:5 24:11,25:12,27:2, 122:16, 122:17 103:2, 105:19
3:3, 3:4, 3:4 few PI- 26:9, 94:8, 27:14,29:7,58:6, Fourteen 11,- 90:23 grabbing 111- 90:7
examInatIon 11) - 141:1 63:12,73:18,75:11, fragment 11) - grade (4) - 5:22,
15:13 Fifteen \21- 29:10, 76:3,76:9,81:4,81:8. 105:25 5:24, 5:25. 6:1
examinations 11) - 90:24 81:9,96:6,98:11, fragments 11) - 86:9 graduate 121 - 6:2,
55:9 fifteen 15) - 6:10, 96:16,97:11,101:15, FRED 11) - 2:12 12:5
examined (21- 5:2, 35:15,39:1,113:12, 107:20,108:11, frequency 11) - 61 :25 graduated (2) - 5:16,
16:15 113:16 106:13, 120:13, friend 11) - 48:21 5:25
Except 11) - 55:21 fifth 11) - 96:24 121:22,147:7 frlendslt)- 42:10 graze 111-104:21
except (5) - 4:15, fighting 11)- 131:9 five 1291- 24:25, front 1201 - 69:23, Great (11- 139:2
4:18,20:19,111:19, fights 121 - 41 :22, 25:3, 32:23, 40:5, 69:25, 70:24, 71 :11, grenade 17\- 122:20,
145:18 44:24 42:15,49:8,49:12, 71:13,71:15,72:1, 136:16,136:22,
exchanged 11)- 79:2 figure 111- 70:10 50:22, 73:14, 73:17, 73:9, 73:11, 73:12, 137:1,137:7,137:13,
Excusel11- 80:24 figured 111 - 100:21 74:2,74:3,79:18, 73:16,84:15,91:1. 137:18
exla. 11)- 23:19 file I2J - 6:16, 20:9 80:1,60:14,80:18, 103:3,103:8,114:23, grenadesl11- 137:1
exIstence 11)- 82:20 filed (9) - 41 :19, 82:2. 86:22, 97:4. 120:22,120:23, ground (5) -100:25,
ex)stlng 11)- 83:5 68:11.131:16, 97:5.97:6,97:13, 121:6,136:11 101:1,102:20.103:8
expected 11)- 41 :3 131:18,131:22, 97:22,110:17, full (4) - 6:6, 64:8, grounds 11)- 116:22
experience PI - 131:24,131:25, 121:13, 122:16, 64:10, 102:25 grown 11)- 25:5
37:12,38:17,38:19 132:1,132:25 145:7, 145:8, 145:9 fusses 11) - 41 :23 guarantees It) -
'---0 experlenc)ng It)- f1lesI1)-41:17 Flve(1)-121:15
flashlight 141 - n:5,
13:18
148:1 filing 11)- 39:24 G Guard 111- 7:3
explain 11) - 52:6 fill (3) - 16:8, 82:8, n:21, 81 :21, 81:23 guessl41- 39:17,
flesh 111 - 86:7 Gamer 11) - 58:16
eyesI1)-100:20 120:17 Gary (7) - 32: 14, 118:9,124:24,145:21
filling 11) - 127:25 flying 111- 81:2 gueaslng 111- 58:25
32:19, 109:14,
F Fln812J - 87:23, fog 111- 81:18 Guessing 11) - 59:1
109:15, 118:19,
142:23 foggy 11) - 81 :18 GuldryPl- 24:17,
fac811ol-18:16, 118:26. 120:4
finIshed 121 - 7:8, folder(1) - 55:5 24:22. 144:16
18:17,37:9,37:11, gas 1221 - 65:24,
146:3 following 11) - 1:20 GUILLORY 15) -
76:5,90:11,102:20, 65:25,81:16,81:23,
fire 1121 - 70:19, 79:2, follows If) - 6:3 1:16,1:19,4:5,5:1,
123:9, 123:17. 140:18 81 :25, 82:9, 89:6.
82:5, 91 :4. 96:5, foot(9l- 9:19.42:15, 147:6
faced (tl- 76:9 89:23,90:12,91:2,
98:14.103:15, 71 :25, 72:9, 72:12, Guillory (91- 5:7,
Facemask 11) - 91:4,91:11,91:22,
103:24.127:19, 73:17. 79:12, 79:14, 24:15,24:22,135:24.
88:13 101:3,103:1,120:17,
141:19,141:21,142:3 79:18 143:2, 144:16, 144:21
facemask Itl- 91 :10 123:6,123:16,128:1,
flreanns 11)- 96:3 FOR PI - 2:6,2:10, gUIlY(11-139:14
factPI- 57:19, 137:17,143:17,
fired 143) - n:15, 2:14 gun (36) - 65:21,
57:20,97:13 143:20
80:13,81:25,82:3. f0rC8110) - 58:12, 60:11,80:14,83:11,
faint It) - 134:13 Gaspard (1) - 64:3
82:6, 96:4, 96:6, 98:9, 75:4, 92:1, 92:5, 92:8, 84:17,100:7,100:11,
fairgrounds 11) • gathered 121 - 35:12,
96:16, 96:17, 96:18, 92:9, 92:13, 92:14, 100:12, 100:13,
53:11 84:13
98:19,98:20,97:1, 92:18, 92:18 100:15,100:16,
far(8J - 70:22, 72:19, OED (31- 6:1, 6:3,
97:7,97:8,97:9, forced (2J - 75:1, 100:18, 100:19,
73:9,73:11,73:13, 9:5
97:11,97:12,91:25, 75:2 100:23,101:23,
73:25,130:12,139:22 General (1) - 45:3
106:14, 106:15, forcibly If I - 88:1 102:5, 102:6, 104:2,
fast 17\- 143:9, general (7) - 16:11,
106:19,107:5, foregOing 111- 113:6,115:1,115:3,
145:7,145:11, 44:8,62:13,67:20,
120:25,121:21, 147:10 115:5,116:1,116:18,
145:23, 146:5, 146:7 68:8,128:23
121:22, 121:23, forensIc 121 - 86:13, 117:5,117:21,
FBI 141- 61:4,111:8, generally (1) - 27:15
126:10, 127:4, 86:17 117:25,128:12,
111:10,111:12 girlfriend 141 - 22:4,
127:11,127:21, fonn PI- 4:18, 6:6, 129:1, 129:2, 129:7,
February 111- 1:23 115:11,115:15,
128:11,128:13, 69:16 129:10,129:11,
feet (8J - 72:22, 131:10
128:16, 128:19, fonnalltleslf) - 4:13 138:24
73:14,74:2,74:3, gIven 191-13:17,
141:22,141:24, forth 111-147:9 Gun 111- 96:14

.
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 UNCERTlI'IED ROUGH DRAFTS2

guns [41 - 128:25. 133:23.133:25. 104:10. 104:1~. 123:15. 124:16. 112:17.113:21.

129:4.141:16.141:18 134:12,134:16. 104:13. 104:14, 124:18. 124:19. 118:12,134:10,
Guns 1'1-141:18 135:4.135:9.135:17, 104:16, 139:1 125:12. 125:15. 137:25,139:9.
Gunter (37) - 24:2. 135:18. 139:8. 144:13 hold [41- 39:17. 127:16. 127:17. 139:10. 142:4.
25:9. 33:13. 33:17. heard (47) - 21 :4. 72:2. 72:4. 80:4 128:1.129:19. 142:10.144:11.
34:14. 39:13. 39:21. 21:10.21:14,21:15. holds Itl- 80:15 129:21.129:24. 145:22
40:1. 40:4. 45:6. 23:13. 28:2. 33:11. hole (9) - 104:24. 130:3.130:5.130:11. Incidents (7] - 30:13.
48:12.48:13.48:16, 33:12.43:4.43:8. 104:25.105:1.105:2. 134:17. 134:19. 30:14. 30:15. 35:22.
71:21,74:11,74:13. 43:12.43:15.43:17. 105:4.105:5.105:6. 134:22. 134:23. 39:21. 140:5, 142:2
76:11. n:4. 84:16. 43:19. 44:5. 44:6. 105:7.105:20 134:25.135:7. Including It) - 92:1
84:22. 92:22. 92:24. 45:2.48:12.48:13. holes [1) - 123:22 135:16.136:6.139:4. Including [11- 4:14
94:6.94:12.94:19, 48:14.48:16.48:17. hollered 131-76:10. 139:13. 139:14. Incumbent It I -
94:20.100:2.111:18. 48:19. 48:20. 48:21. 78:15.103:3 142:1.142:21.143:3. 13:19
114:6,123:3.123:5. 49:4.58:19,58:20. hollering 131- 78:7. 143:4,143:6.143:12. Independent 12) -
124:20.127:4. 59:3.59:4.63:15, 103:17. 103:23 144:12.145:1.146:2 40:3.54:25
135:11.136:6.143:2. n:24. n:25. 78:4. home 181 - 10:9. Housel41- 64:15. Indicate 131- 108:20.
143:21 96:5, 112:3. 112:5, 52:7.135:23.135:25. 64:20,66:22,71:14 130:10. 143:10
GUNTER(2)-1:8, 112:13.112:16. 136:2. 144:10 House'sl-4l- 73:3. )ndlvlduallzed If 1-
2:6 114:14.126:9. homeslfl- 54:4 73:4. 73:11. 73:24 20:21
Gunter'S[fl- 70:22 128:13.128:21. hope (1) - 95:19 houses (2) - 69:22, Inferior [11- 119:7
guy [.4)- 22:4. 65:20. 135:10. 135:20 hostage It41 - 21 :2. 72:17 Informants If I -
141:4. 141:23 hearing [2J - 59:7, 21:5.21:8.21:11. huddled [tl- 90:25 35:13
guys ,fl-103:24 59:8 21 :23. 21 :25. 22:5. human 'f) - 140:8 Information ,t81-
heat [2J - 97:20. 22:15.22:20.22:24. 34:12, 34:17. 35:10.
H 145:4 23:8. 23:11. 23:24. I 35:11.35:12,43:1.
held [2J - 21 :8. 57:9 51:9 43:3. 45:6. 61 :18.
half (8) - 30:20. 31 :1. Icebox [6) - 78:6.
Helmet ,tl- 88: 15 hour (5] - 8:3. 8:4. 67:22.69:11.83:5.
31:4.31:20.49:18. 96:20. 96:25. 97:9.
helmet (4) - 88:16. 38:2. 113:25 64:14,115:14.
113:25 97:10
90:9.90:10.90:13 hours [2) - 8:5. 8:6 128:16.128:19,138:7
hallway (8) - 75:17. Ideal,)-112:15
helping 111- 95:20 housel1191- 25:16, Infraction 111 - 50:20
75:21.75:25.76:18. 111"1- 2:8
hereby 18) - 4:3. 26:4. 26:6, 26:11. Ingested "1-137:4
76:19 lIIega' If1- 59:14
4:15. 4:20. 147:6. 32:12, 65:6. 65:7. Inmate "1 - 41 :18
hand 191- 78:2. Imagine PI - 13:21.
147:9 65:23, 69:23. 69:25. Inmates 1-41- 31:15.
100:9, 100:23, 36:25. 123:4
herelnabovelfl- 70:22,70:24.71:4. 41:13,41:19.41:25
101:23.101:24, Immediate 1-41 - 17:4,
147:9 71:11.71:13.71:15. Inquire (1) -16:11
102:5,102:6.124:20, 17:19,40:8, 40:10
heratoltl-147:17 71:21,72:12.72:16. Inquired [11- 129:24
125:12 Immediately [1) -
hI111-26:8 74:17.74:18. 74:19. Inquiries [fl - 61 :19
handcuffed It) - 109:21
35:25 hId "1- 97:8 74:23,74:25.75:1. Insldel-4l- 7:16.
Impacted [11-
handed (2)- 14:9, high (5) - 5:22. 5:23. 75:2, 75:4, 75:8. 39:9,74:18.142:11
121:18
104:1 7:8. 9:5, 125:23 75:11,76:10. n:8. Instruct 1-41- 28:24,
ImpaIred [8) - 36:20.
handgun [11-124:21 High [fl- 5:16 78:11.78:13.78:15. 46:5.48:7,46:18
36:22.37:1.37:2,
HlghwaY,41- 70:12. 78:24, 79:1, 79:3. Instruct[ng ,f) - 29:1
handled (2) - 22:24. 40:13,122:22
23:2 70:13. 70:14, 70:16 81:17,82:1.82:6. Instruction [2) -
82:9. 82:23, 82:24. Implies 111 - 95:6
handling IfI - 51 :25 Himself [f) - 138:9 13:18,46:12
Imply If 1- 57: 10
himself 181 - 65:22. 83:11.84:3.84:9. Instructions 111-
hard I2J - 18:13, Imprisonments (f) -
92:18.112:8.115:2. 84:12.66:2.88:1. 55:15
145:5 51:8
115:6.128:6,128:14. 91:1.91:22.92:19. Instructive 11] -
hardly [f) - 133:24 Improper 11) - 28:20
138:8 96:1.98:6.98:13, 55:16
Hargroder [3] - 16: 1, 98:14. 98:18, 98:17. In-bouselfl- 32:12
hIred 1-4) -14:24. Intelligence (1) -
16:3,16:11 Incapacitated 11) -
15:5, 15:8. 15:25 101:2.102:22. 34:12
H8I1Jrodefsiti - 102:23. 102:25, 136:15
hiring 11) - 15:24 Interaction If I -
16:8 106:15, 107:3. 107:7. Incarcerated Itl-
hlstory[11-16:13 145:14
HathawaYlt)-141:4 107:9.112:8.113:3, 39:22
head [2J -100:20. hit 1271 - 70:12. Interested If1-
80:20,80:22,81:3. 115:2.115:6,119:2, Incarcerations (1) -
141:7 50:4 147:18
81:8,81:10,81:12. 120:9. 120:10.
headed If) - 42:16 Incident (26) - 28:12. Interfering It) -
96:8.97:16.97:17, 120:17. 120:19.
health (2) - 16:11. 62:14.67:14.68:6. 28:19
97:19. 100:5. 100:6. 120:20.120:23.
16:13 69:17,93:2.93:22, Intemall3l-11:10,
100:8.100:25. 121:1.121:6.121:7,
hear 1141- 76:22. 94:1,96:1,108:1, 11:13.11:14
101:1(1,101:19, 121:14,121:18.
78:5, 96:3, 96:11. 108:18.109:9, Interpret (1) - 116:4
104:5,104:6.104:8. 122:5, 122:11,
110:24,112:7. Interpretation [2J -

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 UNCERTlFIED ROUGH DRAFTS2

118:12,118:13 31:15,138:23 1:2,1:12,2:14 121:11,127:17 72:20, 83:18, 83:25,

Interrogate 121- Irate 111 - 36:3 JennIngs 1391- 1:22, knlvesI11-141:16 84:1,84:2,113:2,
108:14, 130:13 Irritant 111- 137:19 5:20,6:15,6:17,6:21, knockI11-139:3 113:5, 114:4, 114:9,
Interrogated [3] - Irv'n 121-141:7, 7:10,7:12,7:18,7:20, knocked 111-145:2 115:24,116:1,127:25
106:25, 107:18, 141:22 10:2,10:6,10:11, know-how 121- 48:2, last [38J - 8:1,29:11,
108:11 IS 11, - 111:16 10:15,11:3,12:1, 48:4 29:12, 30:8, 30:9,
InterrogatIon 111 - Itself 14' - 28:14, 12:6,13:10,14:1, knowing 131- 24:3, 30:20, 35:21, 40:5,
19:18 47:2,49:5,51:24 14:3, 14:17, 14:18, 30:9,32:22 42:16,49:22, 59:19,
INTERRUPTION 111 - Ivan 111 - 144:21 14:19,15:23,16:23, knowledge 1'1- 60:10,60:11,60:25,
11:23 22:3, 23:3, 25:2, 53:23 66:9,67:8,68:13,
29:15,30:4,51:12, 68:25,69:1,81:8,
Interstate 11' - 70:12 J 53:12,55:25,56:18,
known 1141- 23:24,
81:10,92:24,93:8,
Interstate [3]- 64:7, 24:2,27:18,32:21,
J-A-R-E-D /11- 83:19 56:21, 98:25, 99:11, 35:21,47:6,48:25, 94:4, 94:11, 94:24,
64:12,64:18
Jada 11' - 25:8 138:22,141:23 49:3, 49:8, 49:23, 95:4, 95:9, 95:14,
Intervfew 111-130:6
jail [8S) - 8:10, 8:13, job [8J - 6:8, 8:22, 52:17,69:16,111:18, 97:17,97:18,97:25,
Interv'ewsUI - 8:14,8:15,8:21,30:3,
66:17 10:8,38:13,38:19, 134:6 100:7, 100:9, 100:10,
30:4, 30:18, 30:19, 91:17,91:25 101:21,121:22,
Intimate 111 - 94:23 knOWSI21-18:15,
30:23,30:25,31:7, Joe[S) - 42:7, 42:8, 136:19
Intoxicated 111 - 41:24
31:12,31:13,31:14, 42:14,42:15 Last 111-107:19
36:20 31:16,32:1,38:24,
Intoxicated (5) - JOHN 111- 2:8 L lasted If] - 49:25
39:3,39:14,40:4, JOHNNIE 121- 1:8, late 141-18:2,19:12,
13:2,36:3,36:18, 40:8,41:7,41:11, 2:6 L.L.P /1' - 2:7 32:2, 68:11
36:22,40:13 41:14,42:4,42:5, LA13I- 2:5, 2:9,2:13
Intoxication 111- Joseph (2)-10:16, Late [1' - 19:9
42:6,42:9,42:19, Lacoste J7J - 66:18,
43:10 10:21 launchers [1' -137:1
42:21,49:14,50:6, 66:23,115:11, LAWI1)-2:3
Intoxllyzer ['1- judgel2l- 93:19,
50:8,50:10,79:15, 117:20,126:1,126:5
12:25 133:7 lawI17)-5:19,7:25,
93:1, 93:2, 93:9, Lacoste's 111 -
Investigate (2) - JUD'CIAL 11' - 1: 1 9:16, 38:17, 45:3,
93:14,93:16,93:17, 139:13
34:9, 109:24 July 11' -133:11 50:21, 54:7, 54:8,
93:18,93:20,95:14, Lafayette 1"1 - 2:5,
InvestIgated 121- JunelBl - 62:15, 54:19, 55:12, 59:13,
95:15,95:25,112:23, 2:9, 12:23, 21 :21,
110:20,111:6 62:17,62:18, 128:15, 60:1,60:24,91:19,
130:22, 130:25, 23:8,60:18
Investigates (1) - 133:11,144:10 126:15,140:14
131:4,131 :12, Lake [811 - 5:9, 5:11,
109:12 JurisdIction ['1- laws 111 - 54:3
131:17,132:16, 5:16,5:18,9:1, 10:6,
Investigating 111- 99:11 lawsuit 121- 39:24,
132:19,132:20, 12:22,12:23,23:8,
19:17 132:23,133:1,133:7, Justice 131- 60:16, 66:10
24:6,24:7,24:11,
Investlgatlon (17) - 60:19,60:23 lead [5J - 85:10,
133:10, 133:16, 25:14,26:17,26:18,
11:11,11:14,12:2, 133:20 85:16,86:9,105:11,
29:14,30:3,32:16,
19:16,31:25,32:14, jailer 14' - 8:10,8:17, K 50:7,52:22,53:1,
105:18
34:14,34:23,54:11, 41:18,59:12 'eads (3J - 84:21,
Kathy 121- 25:20, 54:9, 55:22, 56:23,
58:19, 65:24, 86:19, James[11- 5:7 85:9,86:24
33:18 57:4,57:22,61:12,
108:15, 109:20, learn (3)- 84:11,
Jared 1221- 66:21, keapl2I- 95:17, 61:19,61:21,82:1,
110:7,120:5 78:20,78:21,83:18, 84:13. 105:17
117:7 62:8, 83:10, 63:13,
Investigations 111- 83:21, 83:22, 84:4, learned 121-105:10,
Kellogg [21 - 70:6, 63:15,64:6,65:1,
11:18 85:21, 86:4, 98:8, 105:15
70:7 65:3,65:11,65:19,
Investigator (41- 98:19,99:14,101:8, leaatI101-15:6,
kids 111-139:2 69:17,70:15, 72:17,
107:17,119:12, 104:3,104:9,104:16, 24:3, 27:8, 49:11,
killing 11) - 109:10 99:8,99:12,99:14,
139:13,139:19 105:17, 114:13, 62:18. 82:19, 93:23,
kind [181 - 7:24. 99:18, 103:14,
Investigators 121- 115:24,118:18, 110:17,117:3
13:17,26:23,42:18, 103:18,109:7,
67:19,130:1 127:25,128:7 112:16,113:15, leave 11' - 128:3
43:4,111:25,123:5,
Investigatory (11 - Jeff [301 - 5:21, 10:3, 125:5,125:22, 126:5. 118:16, 126:21, Leave (1' - 135:23
11:17 14:21, 14:22, 14:24, 129:1,129:2,129:7, 130:2,132:1,132:20, LEAVES 111- 62:21
Involved 120' - 13:13, 15:25,18:23,17:1, 129:9,129:10, 133:11,136:5,141:5, lectures [2) - 55:11,
13:22,21:25,22:8, 17:8,18:9,30:4, 133:15, 136:3, 139:16 141:9 57:15
27:23,45:7, 66:18, 32:12,32:13,32:18, LAKE Itl- 2:10 left 1121-14:8, 75:18,
Kindly If] - 30:17
66:19,69:8,71:9, 33:9, 35:10, 50:9, lapOinte ,4)- 80:8,80:9, 80:10,
kitchen (22) - 75:22,
110:8,110:9,110:18, 56:18,57:25,59:20, 107:19, 108:17, 80:11,80:17, 101:20,
77:1,77:3,77:20,

'-
110:25,111:20, 60:3, 80:4, 63:21, 123:20 101:21,102:9,
78:16,78:24,79:6,
111:22,112:4, 65:4,66:11,108:15, 102:12,118:18
79:8, 79:20, 80:20, LanyI2l- 17:5,
138:18,139:8,139:24 109:8,109:11,110:1, 66:20 tegal (1, -126:12
80:24,81:6,81:9,
Involve. [1) -109:9 110:12 legaIlY[11-126:12
81:11,97:24,101:25, Laseter 116) - 66:22,
Involving 131- 5:19, JEFFERSON 131- 102:1,102:2,121:9, 87:24,66:5,71:13, Legion 111- 28:17

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 UNCERT1FIED ROUGH DRAFTS2

Leland (8) - 66:22, LOUISIANA 111- 1:3 2:12 mIsdemeanor 141 - 95:2, 95:3, 95:4, 95:7,

"- ' 71:12, 83:16,115:24,

127':25, 128:7
less 14) - 68:8, 121 :4,
Louisiana 1211-
1:23,4:7,5:9,5:17.
9:2, 21 :11, 22:3,
MCClurel2l-24:10, .
25:16
McNeese 12) - 60:19,
58:12,83:10,115:17,
115:18
mIsdemeanors 11) -
95:8,95:16,95:19,
95:21,96:2,102:17,
102:19, 105:13,
105:16, 108:8,
145:7, 145:9 32:16,53:12,55:22, 60:21 93:15
lIarl2l- 43:19,44:3 56:24, 57:25, 66:9, mean J27J - 9:22, Miss 121- 24:22. 108:12, 110:8,
life 15) - 5:12,38:17, 66:17,67:18,87:13, 12:16, 14:18, 19:12, 68:24 110:11,110:14.
46:1,92:11,92:13 103:14,110:19, 27:16, 37:14,37:17, missed 11) -122:10 111:17,116:2,116:7,
lifestyle (t) - 16:6 139:12, 147:6, 147:23 37:22,45:17,56:18, misunderstood It)- 116:8.116:9,116:25,
IIghtI11- 1OO:12 Lounge (11- 26:18 57:10, 72:4, 72:24, 57:7 117:1,117:2,117:8,
limIting (11- 42:3 love 111 - 135:24 73:12,78:16,92:10, moment (21 - 97:20, 117:14,117:16,
line 121- 45:25, low (8) - 37:21, 94:14,94:18,94:23, 145:5 118:1,118:8,118:10,
104:23 133:24,134:11, 103:14, 109:3, money 11) - 10:9 118:11,124:10,
list (1) - 93:17 143:13, 143:14 122:24, 136:10, month (2) -17:12, 124:12, 124:14,
LIsten 121- 28:15, loyal (11- 48:20 136:12,141:11, 50:5 124:15, 124:23,
LSU 13) - 54:21, 141:13, 142:12 months 1161- 8:12, 125:2, 127:6, 127:7,
51:5
60:24,61:2 means J8) - 37:15, 17:10, 18:25, 19:3, 134:1,134:2,134:5,
listen 11) - 120:3
LSUE 12) - 54:23, 37:23,48:1, 92:8, 39:19,49:15,49:18, 134:7,134:8,134:9,
litigation 11) -147:19
60:25 92:9,92:11,92:12, 50:2,50:21,93:11, 134:14, 142:12,
IIwl2J - 5:8, 24:5
92:13 93:21, 93:22 142:14. 142:16,
lived Ittl - 5:10,
142:23, 143:1,
5:11,10:7,24:5, M measure 121 - 48:7, Morgan 121-7:13,
143:23,143:25,
25:14, 25:15, 25:22, 136:3 10:20
machlnel2l-13:1, 144:3, 144:17,
26:4,33:14,69:21, mechanism (1)- momlngl2l-
75:19 144:19, 144:22.
99:4 142:11 133:11,133:17
mad [S) - 40: 15, 144:24, 145:25,
lives (7) - 23:23, meet l3J - 26:5, 66:1, most 121- 8:2. 62:19
40:16, 40:19,40:22, 146:2, 146:8
25:1, 25:2, 34:2, 89:8 Most 12)- 12:21,
40:23 Mudd (1)- 1:22
69:22,99:2,141:4 memberl5) - 33:7, 29:19
Malden 11) - 24:16 muscle(1)-104:18
living 117) - 24:7, 45:21,46:11,46:14. mostly 12) - 68:7.
malnI11-70:18 must [2) - 128:6,

'--' 24:9,24:10,25:17, 59:9 71:18

Main 12)- 138:24. members (2) - 60:1, 132:18
25:18.25:25,53:3, MostIYI1)-12:23
141:23
83:10,75:22,76:20, 61:13 motion 131 - 145:10,
male 111- 42:18
102:2, 121:6. 121:8,
man (7) - 8:14,9:22,
men I2J - 17:6, 18:4 145:23, 146:6 N
121:11,127:16, mention [1) - 41:15 move [11 - 8:21 name [19) - 5:6, 5:7,
17:3, 23:23, 106:19,
129:6,136:11 mentioned 111- moved (41- 17:10, 15:23,18:17,19:21,
114:17,114:20
loaded 121- 90:17, 88:22 17:25,19:5,24:6 24:14,24:15, 24:16,
manager 111 - 6:13
90:18 message 11)- 65:10 movement 111 - 33:24, 45:5, 63:7,
maneuvers 11) - 32:9
locall2l-15:22, met[6J - 24:11,25:9, 120:8 63:23, 68:19, 68:23,
mannerl11- 37:12 25:12,107:25,119:1,
138:2 MR(132) - 2:18,5:5, 107:19,107:20,
manuallD) - 14:2, 120:16
Local 11) - 43:23 11:24,14:21,14:23, 141:6,144:15,144:20
14:9,14:11,14:13,
logging (1) - 142:11 method (11 - 51 :24 18:12, 18:15, 18:18, Namel4)- 31:23,
33:1,33:4,51:12,
longest (1) - 39:12 MIchael 11) - 53:2 18:19,28:11,28:13, 43:22,45:16. 66:19
51:18,51:23
look 111)- 59:22, might 114)- 18:15, 28:15,28:16,28:18, named 13) - 25:20,
Manuel (17) - 66:21,
87:22,93:12,102:24, 18:16,18:17,31:5, 28:19,29:1.29:3, 98:6, 141:16
78:19,78:20,78:21,
104:4,105:8,109:4. 41:18,42:17.43:2, 29:4, 29:6, 31 :9, names 111)-15:19,
83:16,84:4,98:7,
119:10.129:20, 54:23,87:10,97:6, 31:10,35:4,35:8, 22:8. 43:24, 44:1,
98:19,99:14, 104:3.
141:14,143:16 97:10.97:12, 136:8 42:3,42:5,42:13. 44:9, 45:10,45:17,
104:9,114:13,
Look 111- 104:7 mllesl2J - 38:2, 45:24.46:4,46:7, 140:13. 141 :1, 141:4,
115:24,118:18,
looked 110) - 77:4, 113:16 46:9,46:10,46:12, 141:15
127:25, 128:7
78:1,100:19.104:7, military 13) - 6:24, 46:13,46:16,46:20, Names 11)- 44:21
Manuel's 131- 85:21,
104:10, 105:19. 7:1,7:4 46:23, 47:1. 47:12. namlngI11-141:12
66:4. 104:16
107:6, 107:9. 109:2. Miller (8) - 66:21. 47:18.51:5.51:6, narcotic 15] - 34:17.
manufacturer 11) -
123:25 78:18.98:7. 98:23. 52:2,52:5.55:7,56:5. 34:18,35:11,43:1,
137:13
lOOking 131- 60:12. 98:25.101:2 56:6.57:6,57:10, 43:3
married (1)- 24:12
60:13,76:18 mind ISI- 41:16, 57:12,57:14,57:17, narcotics 121- 34:21,
mask(4)- 81:19,
looks I2J - 33:21, 91:14.91:16,91:24. 59:1.59:2.62:15. 48:17
90:12,91:11.123:6
145:6 95:19 62:16,62:21.62:22, narrow (1) - 40:6
masks 111 - 101:3
10088111- 132:11 mlnort1)-111:19 67:25. 68:3. 71 :2, Natlonallt)- 7:3
matter13l- 57:19, 71:3,74:21.74:22,
lose Itl- 137:6 mlnutesl5J - 113:12, NcNeese11) - 54:20
111:10,111:14
losIng 121 - 92:13, 113:13.145:7.145:8, 80:21,80:23,83:19, necessarily 11)-
MATTHEWS 11)- 83:20, 93:3, 93:6,
137:9 145:9 95:11

45 of 52 sheets Page 8 to 8 or 15 03/09/200911:57:40 AM

 UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT52

-- need (1)- 114:22

needed [3J - 91:19.
91 :20. 91 :24
needs 11)- 109:12
neglect (i) - 43:5
61:5,61:7.61:9.
61:11.67:4.83:1.
83:2. 114:2. 114:3.
133:3
nonresponslvenes
OF (3)-1:2. 1:3. 1:16
OFF 121 - 35:7. 55:6
offense 11)- 30:7
offhand (2)- 44: 1O.
45:17
57:8. 57:22. 58:6.
59:7.61:23.62:13.
83:1.64:22.64:24.
69:5. 76:3. 80:9.
80:10.80:11.80:17.
pamphlet 11)- 51 :23
pants 11)- 103:6
paperp)-14:10.
107:13. 138:13
paperwork [.t) -
negotiation Ii) - S(1)-4:19 office [11)- 10:7. 85:19.89:4.93:18, 13:24, 16:8. 52:9.
22:20 nonnal (4)- 8:7. 16:9.21:5,36:2. 97:7,98:10,102:9, 93:13
negotlatlons Ii) - 37:13.72:16,146:4 66:13.89:6.109:1. 102:11.104:14. paramedIcs (2) -
20:23 nonnally (3)- 8:15. 118:24.119:1. 104:15.109:2.110:3, 103:15, 105:22
negotiator [9J - 21 :2. 85:16. 109:7 119:18.119:24 110:13.119:22. parcel (1)- 55:15
21:5.21:8.21:12. notel1)-123:14 OffIce (32)- 5:21. 123:18. 123:19. parish (30)- 10:8.
21:23.22:24,23:9. nothing 115) - 36:17. 10:3.14:19.15:25. 124:19. 126:6, 10:9.21:2.21:7.22:6.
23:11,23:24 40:21,76:9.89:12. 16:25.18:11.20:10. 126:10, 126:18, 23:23,30:18,30:19.
Never (2) - 7:6.7:7 89:14. 89:20. 107:23. 22:13.32:13.34:8. 126:19.126:21. 30:25. 39:14.43:23.
neverl28)- 12:1. 108:22.108:23, 34:24,35:11.52:10. 127:10.128:25. 44:8,44:14.44:20,
21:14.21:15.23:13. 128:24. 133:12. 56:19,57:25.59:10. 129:12,138:13. 45:3,45:4.51:16.
26:11.26:24.27:18. 135:1.145:20.147:8 59:20, 59:23. 60:3. 139:1. 141 :25, 51 :18.51:22.57:1.
27:23. 33:20. 51 :20. Nothing [2J - 69:13. 60:4.63:21.64:10. 143:25.144:25 57:3.59:9.61 :18.
51 :21. 53:8. 78:22. 69:14 65:5.66:12.67:18. onel [4) - 57:4. 81 :3. 64:20.64:21.95:15.
94:18.107:25. notice (4)- 86:16, 108:16.109:11. 141:18 95:25.110:6.136:4.
111:20.118:5. 86:17. 86:18. 143:10 109:23.110:2. ongoing Ii) - 35:4 136:22
122:10.126:21. Not)ce (i) - 4:6 110:12.138:6 online [3J - 61 :6. PARISH (3) -1:2.
129:24.130:8, numbers 11) - 87:19 OFFICE (1)- 2:15 61:8.61:10 1:12.2:14
130:21.132:13. Numeroul(1) - OffIcer 151 - 113:2. open (7J - 73:17. Parish (8) -14:24.
133:14.135:1.140:1. 140:13 114:4.114:9.119:5. 73:20. 73:25. 75:22. 16:23. 17:7. 32:18.
145:16 numerous 11) - 144:4 75:25.88:21.102:3 33:9,50:10.66:11.
New [2J - 2:13. 5:9 140:25 officer (18)- 7:10. opened (8) - 75:13. 109:11
newspaper (2) - 12:2. 13:19.23:4. 76:2. 103:3. 103:5 park (2) - 69:24.
137:25.138:2 0 32:15,34:21.37:17. openIng (2) - 8:20. 71:22
Next (i) • 44: 11 55:25.58:17.83:13. 17:25 parked 14)- 69:25.
o'clock Ii) - 132:24 92:17.111:2.118:13. operatIng (i) -
next (9)- 32:1. 72:9. 72:19. 73:5
oath (3)- 47:21. 132:14
69:16.71:13.71:16. 119:3.126:3.136:6. Parole (3) - 32:16.
47:24.48:1 144:5. 144:12 opportunity 16) -
79:15.79:17.99:2. 56:25.58:1
Object [1) - 74:21 officers (18) -11:19, 39:25.40:18.66:7.
132:3. 133:16 part (10)-11 :17,
object (5J - 45:24. 23:4. 35:25, 44:25. 106:7.108:17.114:5
Nezplque 111- 1:22 22:19.22:22.55:15.
52:2, 80:21.106:8. 57:24.61:15,65:21. oral [1)- 1:19
nice 11) - 38:5 58:2.61:23.104:18.
124:23 66:18.66:19,71:9. origin (i) - 87:20
night (9)- 68:25. 104:19.119:8.120:6
objection 121- 28:22, 91:20.98:5.103:4. OrieanSl2l- 2:13,
69:1.130:23.131:4. participate 11) -
28:23 111:12.116:19.127:2 5:9
131:12.131:17. 11:13
objections (1)- 4:18 OffIcers 11)- 110:8
132:25.133:20. Otherwise Ii} - participated 111-
obtain [2} - 51 :2. offices 11) -1:21 28:23
133:21 12:1
114:17 Ohio (1)- 59:6 outletsl1)- 7:9
Nine 11) - 87:3 particular 1121 - 6:23.
obtained Ii) -126:12 old (5J - 25:8, 52:19.
nine (2) - 49:18. outside 151 - 26:5. 13:13.14:14.30:1.
132:24 OC (3) - 75:14. 56:22,79:13.99:20 26:6,74:17.103:7. 32:8.42:1.42:7.55:1,
137:1.137:17 on-the-job (3) - 134:24
NOli) -1:10 64:5. 127:3, 137:2.
occasion (18) - 26: 1. 38:13.38:19 overt)roadnesa 111 - 145:22
nobodyl2l-78:13,
29:24.41:8.50:22. once (4) - 27:10, 108:9
134:12 particularized 111-
51:2.51:15.53:9. 49:9.96:4.117:14 overcomel1)-136:5 12:11
Nobody (5) - 79:22.
53:19.53:22.59:12. One (7J -18:6. 42:9, overseeing Ii) -
79:23.89:19. 134:15. parties (3) - 4:4.
113:2, 127:3,130:13.
134:16 53:14. 80:10. 105:6. 31:16 4:10. 147:17
137:24. 145:12 105:7. 135:22
no).e,1)- 78:4 own [2J - 64: 13. passed 11)-124:2
occasions [6} - one 174J - 12:9. 21 :7. 109:18
non It} - 45:21 palsenger'aI11-
26:13.28:4.36:19. 22:3.22:18.23:4.
non-church [i) - 73:2
36:20. 50:23 23:7.23:13.23:14, p
45:21 paulng (1)- 73:4
occupied (1)- 8:15

--
none [4)- 21:13. 25:5. 25:6. 25:7. Past (t)- 75:19
occurred [8) - 76:17. P.D Ii) - 65:4
23:16.114:1.129:20 25:14.25:16,38:15. patrol (19) - 8:20.
96:1.99:3.113:6, P.O (2)- 2:4. 2:9
None[2OJ-10:13. 41:24.42:9.42:10. 8:21. 9:16.9:17.9:19.
113:9.130:14 42:11.43:6.45:5. Page 111 - 3:2
10:25.11:9.11:18. pagea,1)-147:10 9:20. 12:19. 17:2,
occurring Ii} - 28:2 45:8.45:16.49:14,
21:3.21:6,21:9, 61 :25. 62:2, 62:11.
occurs Ii} - 145:14 50:21.51:19,54:21. Pam (2) - 64:2. 68:24
45:20.56:14. 60:17. 63:2.63:6.64:7,64:8.

03/09/2009 1 1.57.40
• AM Page 9 to 9 of 15 46 of 52 sheets
 10

.-- 64:11.64:15.64:21
Patroll2l-15:9.63:4
patrolled 111 - 9:22
patrolllng(11- 9:15
136:23,137:3,137:8.
139:24,140:6,140:18
personal (5) - 26:22.
38:17.43:11.48:1,
115:3.115:5,116:18.
117:4,117:21
POLICE (11- 2:10
Police (841 - 5:20,
Possibly (11 - 97:5
post(8l- 5:17.54:8.
55:22, 57:22, 57:23.
58:6
85:15,86:11
ProJectile 111- 86:12
projectiles (11-
87:19
147:13 6:15,6:17.6:21.7:12. Post (11 - 5:17 proper (11 - 51 :24
Patrolman I7J -
86:21.86:22.71:12. personnel (2J - 11:7, 7:18,7:20. 10:2. 10:6. Poydras (1) - 2:13 proposition 111-
71:14.83:15,83:25 20:9 10:11.11:3.12:1, precepts (1) - 46:21 39:2
patrolman 118] - 8:9. persons (41 - 87:5, 12:6,14:1.14:3, premia. 131- 85:18, protect (11- 92:6
8:18,9:8,9:11,9:13, 88:15,140:10, 141:19 14:17,14:18,21:11. 95:10,95:11 protecting 111-
9:25,10:3,12:5, Pettlfleld (3J - 25:20, 21:16,50:8,51:13, premises 121 - 85:·9, 92:18
12:12, 16:22, 17:9, 33:18,34:5 58:1,61:12,61:19, 91:5 protective (11-101:5
18:24,37:25,59:11, phone \21- 65: 19. 63:13, 63:16, 65:19. preparatIon (2) - psychiatrist (1) -
61:17 118:20 66:9.66:17,67:19, 67:8.88:13 37:4
patrolmen (1) - photographer (1)- 84:24,84:25,86:1, prepared (3J - 67:9. psychological (8) -
18:21 109:5 87:13.99:9,99:19, 92:5.92:6 20:18.20:22.20:23.
patrola (11- 62:19 photographs (21- 106:4,106:11. presence (2J - 58:13, 38:15,51:3,51:7.
Paula 14) - 24:15, 108:24, 108:25 106:13, 107:17, 135:5 53:24,145:21
24:22,144:16 photos (1)-109:13 109:1,109:8,109:18, PRESENTlll- 2:16 psychologist (1) -
pawnshop 111- physical (2J -15:16, 109:20,109:21, preaent[8J - 27:7, 37:4
126:22 16:12 110:6,110:19, 27:8,31:5,31:6.36:5, public (1)- 27:16
penetrate 111 - 81 :23 physically [1) -16:15 110:23,111:8. 99:25 pull (1) -141:14
penetrated (1) - 86:4 physicals (1) - 15:24 112:16,118:16, preas(2J-138:15, pulled (5J - 65:20.
penitentiary (1) - pick (3) - 62:1,65:24, 123:12, 123:19. 138:17 100:23,100:24,
132:20 102:18 125:11,130:1,130:2. presume (2J - 24:7, 117:25, 122:20
People [31- 44:8, picked (3J -103:7, 130:8, 130:10, 132:2, 39:9 purposes (1) - 4:6
44:20. 48:23 125:13. 133:16 136:5, 138:22. pretty (13) - 5:11, pursuant (2J - 1:20.
people (28] - 8: 15. picking (1) - 141:6 139:12. 139:19 10:25,13:24,22:17, 4:5
13:1,22:8,37:11. pIcture 121- 87:14. police (31) -11:19, 29:19.36:15.55:10, pursued [11- 138:25

---. 38:24,39:1,41:1.
43:21.43:23, 44:14.
45:3,45:4.45:7.
109:2
pictures (8) - 109:3,
109:5, 109:7. 109:14,
14:8,23:3,27:13,
33:13,34:13.35:24,
36:1,44:24.45:7,
99:10. 106:17.
112:11.121:18,
137:20.146:4
Put (1) - 90:5
put (10] - 17:21.
57:20. 88:2. 89:9,
45:15,47:10,84:1, 51:18,52:22,53:17, previous 121 - 43:5.
109:15. 109:18 90:6. 95:25, 112:23,
64:16.67:13, 67:14. 55:25,58:17,59:25, 112:9
piece (3J - 105:10, 132:25. 133:16. 136:9
67:20,90:25.93:18, 61:10.61:15,62:9, previOUSly 121-
105:17. 107:13 putting \21- 91 :22,
122:14, 140:14, 89:20, 69:22. 75:7,
pieces (11 - 87:4 17:20,79:16 137:22
140:22,140:25 83:12.92:17,99:11,
Plggly (11- 6:12 Probation 131 -
perceive (11 - 48:5 99:24, 118:22,
ping (3) - 78:5. 78:6
126:19,139:18,
32:16, 56:24, 58:1 Q
perceIved (11- 84:14 pinging (1) - 78:5 problem (1) - 119:20
144:4, 144:12 qualifications 11)-
perceptions (1) - Plnhook (1' - 2:4 problems (14) -
policeman (7] - 32:19
145:14 pInpointing Ii) - 20:18.26:21,26:22.
10:24,92:15,99:14. qualified (11- 9:6
perfect p) - 81:21, 30:15 26:23, 27:20, 39:21,
106:18.123:21. qualifying (1) -15:12
129:3, 129:12 place(S] - 26:10. 40:4.40:8.41:8.
136:14,145:15 questioned (1) -
perfonn (1)-103:10 59:8.63:9,121:3, 41:10,41:13,43:10.
perhaps lSI - 27:21.
policy p) - 51 :22, 111:19.119:25
106:13
139:23,142:3
40:12,43:11.49:11 138:9,138:11 questioning (1) -
placed (2J -103:8, Procedure (1) - 4:8
period (181-10:22, popped (1) - 88:20 45:25
132:18 procedure PI - .
11:2, 17:12. 22:14, porch (21- 72:1, questfons (S] - 4:16,
places (4) - 12:15. 51:12, 109:22, 132:14
25:24, 31:2. 32:2, 120:23 46:16. 106:20,
19:20.19:21,58:21 procedures (7] -
32:7,35:14,39:12. portion (1) -120:22 133:22, 135:2. 142:24
play (1) - 22:19 12:19, 14:4.31:15,
39:20.41:11.50:5. poslt(on lSI- 15:1, quiet (8) - 37:14,
point (13) - 20:18, 51:11,52:10,54:12,
50:21,51:2,98:18, 17:20, 18:23,77:15, 37:15.37:21.37:24,
31:18,37:3,77:16, 54:19
100:18.113:21, 108:19 38:4, 38:8, 133:24,
82:5,82:10.82:12. PROCEEDINGS 121 -
118:14 positioned (1) - 134:11,134:13
87:23, 87:24, 87:25. 62:21,71:2
periods (1) - 20:5 134:20 quit (4) - 9:25, 10:2,
102:17.121:21.134:1 proceedings 11) -
person (22) - 21:1, posItIve (41- 48: 13. 10:6,17:24
poInted I8J - 77:21, 31:14
37:20,41:24,42:1, 48:14,49:5,115:25 quite (1) -129:5
83:11.84:17.100:11, profiling (21 - 20:22.
45:12,47:16,48:16, possession 111-
114:10, 116:1, 53:24
48:22.52:7.65:5. 128:12. 140:23
27:18
program p) - 60:16, R
132:15. 132:24. possibly (2J - 92:2, 60:19,60:23
pOintIng (9) - 77:5, racked (2J -100:9,
133:2, 133:4. 133:6, 97:4 100:11
78:2,113:6.115:1. projectile 131- 85:14,

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radio 14) - 61 :20, 85:18,85:19,85:20, 30:6,30:17,31:3, resisted (7) - 115:5, 103:17,117:18,

'- 61:24,65:3
Ralph [21- 110:22,
111:1
86:2, 86:21, 87:5,
87:19
reduction (i) - 4:16
33:17,34:10,35:23,
36:17,39:15,39:23,
40:7,41:15,41:20,
115:7,115:20,
116:14,116:16,
116:18,117:21
118:23,119:5,120:16
Romero's (2) -
64:24,73:9
ram (2) - 75:5, 75:7 reelection [i) - 53:5 42:6, 42:19, 42:21, reslst)ng (4) - 115:1, room (17) - 75:20,
ran 110) - 53:7, 53:8, reenacted (1) -108:1 44:1,51:14,53:12, 116:4, 116:10, 117:13 75:23, 76:1, 76:6,
73:4, 78:3, 78:6, 78:8, reenactment (1) - 53:13,54:22, 54:23, Resisting (1) - 115:3 76:20,93:18,93:20,
96:20,100:22 57:5 59:7,59:8,60:20, resolved [1) - 112:21 94:14, 94:17, 94:19,
rank (31 - 119:5, reenactments [11 - 60:21,60:25.61:1. respective (2) - 4:4. 102:2.121:7,121:9,
119:10,119:23 58:8 63:18,63:24, 64:15, 4:10 121:11,121:12,
rather (1) - 119:7 REEXAMINAnON 89:13,69:14,84:2, respond (3) - 28:25, 127:16,136:12
reached (2) - 38:4, (2) -144:18,144:23 85:3,88:1,86:3,86:5, 58:8,56:9 roughly [i) - 50:19
103:5 Reexamination (2) • 86:8,86:23,87:10, responses (1)- 58:5 round [221 - 80: 11,
reaction (1) - 40:25 3:5,3:5 87:21,90:8,90:7, responsive [1) - 80:17,81:9,81:11,
read [181 - 14:9, referred [1) - 22:20 92:21,93:13,93:14, 143:3 82:18,82:17,85:10,
51 :20, 51 :21, 52:9, refers (1) - 52:4 93:17,94:21,95:13, rest (3) - 8:6, 49:17, 86:4,86:12,97:7,
66:8, 84:25, 85:4, reflect 111- 28:16 95:22, 95:23, 97:13, 57:24 97:17,97:19,100:7,
85:5, 85:25, 86:20, regard (8) -14:15, 99:21,99:22,101:7, result (4) - 20:1, 100:10,100;11,
87:13,87:15, 108:8, 53:17,58:11,59:14, 105:19, 105:23, 38:13,38:14,111:4 102:9, 102:12,
130:12,138:2, 139:21 60:2,81:12,86:19, 105:24,106:1, reaulted 111- 94:1 125:23,128:13,
reading (4)- 4:11, 120:8 106:10, 106:18, retail 11)- 7:9 141:24,142:21
88:1,87:21,105:23 regarding 11) - 48:18 106:20,106:23, retired 111 - 31:22 rounds [28) - 77:8,
readY(1)- 88:19 regIon [31- 21:10, 107:8, 107:10, 108:5, retrieved [1)- 88:21 77:9, 77:14, 77:15,
real (7J - 38:3, 108:9, 108:12, 80:14,80:15, 80:16,
21:16 retum [1)- 14:10
134:11,134:13, 111:23,112:1, 80:18,80:19,81:2,
regions [i) - 23:7 retumed [1) - 98:14
143:14, 148:5, 146:7 112:17,112:18, 82:6, 87:1, 90:23,
registered [1)- review (2) - 66:7,
really (13) -12:15, 112:19, 129:7, 90:24, 96:17, 96:18,
10:23 67:3
13:3,30:14,43:7, 129:10, 135:18, 96:21,97:1,97:4,
regular Ii) - 59:23 reviewed [61 - 68:8,
45:17,48:22,59:21, 135:20,137:21, 97:8, 97:9, 97:12,
REJOINS 11)- 71:2 66:15,66:16,130:9
61:24,79:18,105:3, 141:1,141:18 97:14
related (1) -147:16 Ricky (2) -14:25,
140:13,143:9,143:15 removed 11)-105:18 route 11)- 70:9
relative PI -13:19, 17:1
reason tBI- 62:5, report [27[- 66:8, rowI1)-135:22
91:14, 132:16 rifle 1181 - 77:22,
62:7,72:3,114:16, 84:25, 85:25, 86:9, run 114)- 29:25,
release 151-133:1, 78:2,86:12,124:8,
114:18,115:19, 86:16,86:20,86:23, 31:25,36:16,36:17,
133:4,133:6,133:10, 124:10,124:21,
116:16,128:24 87:9,87:11,87:12, 39:4, 53:5, 72:25,
133:12 124:22,125:3,125:5,
recalled (1)- 93:19 87:13, 87:15, 96:12, 78;7,78:9, 100:14,
released tBI- 125:7,125;11,
receive (3)- 20:6, 96:14,105:23,106:1, 132:19,132:21,
130:25,132:3,132:5, 125:22, 126;6, 127:5,
61:16,65:11 108:25,112:3,112:5, 132:23, 136:19
132:8, 132:16 127:11,127:19,
112:6,123:11,130:9, runnIng [5[ - 31:16,
received 11) - 69:10 releases [11 - 138:17 127:22, 129:17
137:22,139:21, 32:1,98:15,103:16,
receiving Ii) - 65:10 religion (5) - 47:5, rifles (41-124:13,
142:4,142:17, 142:18 104:13
recently (1) - 68:2 47:8,47:16,47:20, 124:17, 126:16,
recognizance (11- Report 111 - 96:13
136:9 126:25
132:9 reported \8J - 39:21, S
religIons 111- 47:9 rights [11 - 108;6
82:13,82:15,142:7,
recollectIon (41- religious 14)- 46:2, Road [11 - 2:4 sample (2) -16:18,
142:10,147:11
30:12,34:11,40:3, 46:17,46:21,47:3 road (8) - 56:22, 16:20
REPORTED 111-
54:25 remain \21- 9:13, 69:21,69:23,70:16, Sanders 11)- 34:22
2:22
recollections 111- 18:23 70:17,70:20,72:16 sat (4) - 100:14,
Reporter [2J - 147:4,
30:16 remarried 111 - 24:20 roadway \21- 72:13, 100:17, 102:4, 108:6
147:22
RECORD [21- 35:7, remember 1117) - 73:5 save 11)- 46:17
reporter[l) - 4:17
55:6 7:22,9:1,9:2,10:25, ROBERT 11) - 2:3 saw 116) - 33:20,
reports\2l-141:14,
record [31 - 28:16, 11:6,12:15,12:16, rolled [11 - 100:20 39:12,71:10,78:8,
142:13
35:5,95:16 12:18, 13:3, 13:6, Romero [291 - 63:8, 76:9, 93:8, 98:3, 98:8,
requesting [1) - 65:4
recorded 11) - 13:21, 14:13, 14:16, 64:13,64:18,65:16, 98:10,98:11,104:16,
108:10 required 11[ - 34:13
15:23,16:10, 16:14, 65:18, 68:20, 69:10, 105:2,105;4,108:3
recorder [i) - 108:9 rescue 111 -103:10
18:8,18:12,19:23, 71:12,71:18,71:19, scattering 111 - 98:15
recordings [1) - resent (11- 29:4
19:24,20:11,20:13, 72:21, 73:8, 75:3, scenario (2)- 55:23,
66:17 22:6,22:7,22:18, reserve (2) - 7:4,
76:24,78:12,78:18, 57:5
records (11 - 39:25 23:1,23:5,27:4,27:5, 54:7
82:7,82:15,63;24, scenarios (4)-
recover 111- 84:21 27:10,27:14,27:17, Reserve [11-7:18
89:3,98:7,98:21, 13:12,55:17,56:7,
recovered 181- 85:9, 29:14,29:16,30:5, relerved 11) - 4:20 101:2, 102:24, 56:20
..
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scene (28) - 26:25, 96:11 19:16,20:12,26:24, shift (7) - 9:24, 17:3, showed 121-107:10,
'-0 27:2, 28:1, 29:17, secondsI11-145:10 35:24,41:7,45:22, 17:11,17:22,19:3, 107:12
63:16,63:20,69:18, secretary 11)- 68:24 54:10, 56:21 39:2,39:10 .howlng ItI - 56:7
69:19,69:20,87:24, seel64)-12:19, levereIYI1)-121:18 shifts (4) - 39:4, sldel27J - 69:23,
99:16,99:18, 99:25, 14:2, 26:1, 26:3, shall 111- 4:12 39:5,39:7 70:1,70:24,73:2,
104:12, 108:1, 27:12,33:22,36:5, shallsl') - 80:4 shirt 121 - 100:25, 73:21,76:7,100:7,
108:18,108:21, 37:11,40:25,48:21, Shelton 121- 3:3, 3:5 103:6 100:14. 100:24,
108:24,110:20, 63:5.69:19,70:10, SHELTON (12) - 2:3. shoot [1J - 74:5. 101:23,120:6.
113:1, 115:21, 71:6,71:8,74:19, 2:3, 5:5, 11 :24, 14:23. 74:7,74:12, n:10, 120:10.120:11,
117:11,117:12, 75:6,75:12, 75:15, 18:15, 18:19. 28:13, 79:21, 140:5, 140:6 120:14. 120:15,
117:17,118:9, 76:15, 76:16, n:2, 28:16, 28:19, 29:3, shooterl2)- 139:25, 120:18, 120:22,
118:12,118:13.144:7 n:4, 78:1, 78:23, 29:6,31:10,35:8, 145:15 120:25,121:5,122:4,
lcenesl'l- 55:17 79:8,80:2.81:12, 42:5,42:13,46:4, shooting (311- 45:7, 122:5, 122:18.
scheduled 111 - 8:22 81:16,81:19,81:20, 46:9,46:10,46:13, 63:9, 68:1, 68:2, 68:4, 122:19, 134:20
School ,11- 5:16 81:21,81:22,82:19, 46:20,47:1,47:18, 68:5, 78:3, 93:5, 93:7, sidearm Itl- 90:19
Ichool (9)- 5:22, 84:1, 85:20, 87:9. 51:6,52:5,55:7,56:6, 94:9, 98:1, 98:3, 98:8, sight 11)- 137:6
5:23, 7:8, 9:5, 20:5, 94:8,99:18,99:24, 57:10,57:14,57:17, 98:10,98:11,98:13. algn l2J -14:10,
56:22, 57:5, 57:9, 103:13,103:20, 59:2,62:16,62:22, 109:24,110:7, 91:21
60:24 104:23,104:25, 68:3,71:3,74:22, 110:10,110:19, signing 111 - 4: 11
schooled 111- 52:13 114:25,116:16, 80:23, 63:20, 93:6, 110:24,111:4,112:6, SImien 11)- 31 :24
Ichoollng (8) - 6:20, 116:20,123:5,123:7. 95:3, 95:7, 95:8. 118:17,134:9, slmllaq1)-112:10
9:4,12:11,19:19, 123:8,123:10,139:6, 95:21,96:2,102:19, 138:18,138:24, slmpleI1)- 27:18
53:10,54:2 141:3,141:12 105:16, 106:12, 139:23, 145:17. 146:4 single 11)'- 9:23
achoolsI13)- 5:15, seeing 11)- 95:23 110:11,110:14, shootings 111- 110:5 sltl1l-141:11
5:19,19:17.33:3, seem 121 - 36:22, 111:17,116:7,116:9, shoots l2J - 125:22. sitting (8J - n:5.
54:10,57:1,57:8, 112:9 117:1,117:8,117:16, 129:13 n:6, n:15, n:23,
57:11,57:13,59:13, seizure II) - 59: 15 118:1, 118:10. short 12) - 98:18, n:24.101:11,
60:6, 145:13. 145:16 seizures 131- 54:4, 118:11,124:12, 100:18 107:11,128:1
SCHROEDER J66J - 55:2,60:2 124:15, 125:2, 127:7, ahorthand (II - situation [1J - 21 :25,
--.,.-'
2:12,14:21,18:12, semi 111 - 136:24 134:2,134:7,134:9, 147:12 22:15,22:25,23:2,
18:18.28:11,28:15, .emlnarl2l- 53:11, 134:14,142:14, shot 169)- 45:8, 23:15, 52:7, 65:13
28:18,29:1,29:4, 53:14 142:16. 142:23, 74:10. 74:13, n :8, situations 181 - 22:1,
31 :9, 35:4, 42:3, semlnarfachoollng 144:24,146:2.146:8 n:9, n:11, 78:25, 51 :9. 51 :25, 53:25,
45:24,46:7,46:12, (1)-59:24 Sherlffl4l-14:25, 79:1, 79:3, 79:5, 79:8, 55:18, 136:19
46:16,46:23,47:12, seminars 121 - 55: 16, 15:2,32:18,118:2 79:10,79:20,79:22, six 121)- 8:3, 19:3,
51:5,52:2,56:5,57:6, 57:15 shet1ff (II) - 15:3, 79:25,80:1,80:14, 39:19,49:15,50:5,
57:12,59:1,62:15, send (1)- 23:8 15:5, 17:1.31:24, 80:18,80:24,81:1, 50:21,79:14,79:18,
67:25,74:21,80:21, sent l2J - 59:21, 36:1. 52:24, 62:11, 81:4,81:8,81:9. 80:1,80:13,80:14,
93:3, 95:2, 95:4, 144:11 67:17,68:16,110:1, 81:14,82:10,82:12, 80:16, 60:19, 86:22,
95:16, 95:19, 102:17, separate (41 - 41 :25, 110:2,110:18, 82:16, 84:19, 96:6, 93:21, 97:2, 97:6,
105:13,108:8,110:8, 142:10,142:11, 119:11, 119:21, 96:9,96:16,97:18, 97:14,97:22, 121:13
116:2,116:8,116:25. 142:12 138:8. 138:14, 97:25, 100:4, 100:6, Six 161- 8:2, 18:25,
117:2,117:14, 118:8, separated 12) - 138:15,138:16 101:15, 101 :16, 79:12.97:3,97:4
124:10, 124:14, 42:11,42:12 Sheriffs [311- 5:21, 101:17, 107:15, slx-month III - 50:5
124:23, 127:6, 134:1, separates 111 - 10:3, 14:19, 15:25. 107:16,110:25, sixteen [31-15:4,
134:5, 134:8, 142:12, 121:11 16:25,18:11,20:10, 121:13.122:8, 25:8,52:24
143:1, 143:23, separating (tl- 22:13. 32:12, 32:13, 122:16, 128:6, 128:9. slxteen-year-old II)
144:19, 144:22, 121:9 34:8, 34:23, 35:11, 128:14, 128:22, -25:8
145:25 service 12) - 8:22, 52:10,56:18, 57:25, 129:3, 129:13, SKS (4) - 125:18,
Schroeder l2J - 3:4, 8:24 59:10, 59:20, 59:23. 138:25,139:5, 125:20.126:5,126:8
3:5 sat [8) - 56:24. 57:23, 80:3, 60:4, 63:21, 139:20,140:2, slightly 111 - 71 :4
scored (11- 58:5 57:24,59:24,72:12, 64:10,65:5,67:18, 141:24,142:21 slow 161- 143:14,
sealing 111- 4:14 147:9 108:16,109:11, Shot [11- 122:9 145:6,145:10,
search 161- 54:12, Saven (1) - 80:5 109:23.110:2, shotgun (1) - n:22, 145:23, 146:6
54:13,59:14.60:2, seven (4)- 62:20, 110:12, 138:6 80:2,80:4,90:15, smaIl11)-121:7
82:24 80:13,80:15 sheriff'S (51- 10:7, 91:7,96:4,104:2 smoke 14) - 75:14,
searches 121- 54:3, sevanteen 11)- 6:13 21 :5, 23:3, 36:2, shotguns 111- 136:7 122:20, 137:18
55:2 SevaraIJ4)-12:15, 99:19 shots [1J - n:25, smoker 111- 136:16
second 161- 29:24, 19:20,56:25.140:22 SHERIFF'S 111 - 2:15 79:25,80:1,107:6, Sneed(11- 32:17
30:7,35:6,96:9, several (9) - 5: 18, shield [11- 81:19 121:23,128:10
social (11- 33:14

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socially 121- 26:1, 19:25 74:13,16:10,16:13, study 141- 33:1, teach 121- 59:25,
26:3 standby Ii) - 22:22 76:14, 16:22, 77:4, 51:11,51:15,145:12 145:17
so'a\2)-101:11, standing 181 - 73:12, n:7, n:23, 78:25, studying 121- 51:4, teachesl2l- 41:7,
121:3 18:21,19:9,101:18, 79:2, 79:3, 79:5, 79:6, 51:1 47:8
someone 1121 - 106:18, 107:14, 79:13, 79:17, 79:24, stuff (9) -12:17, teaching (2) - 7:22,
25:18,37:5,37:12, 107:15,107:16 81:12,81:14,82:8, 43:15,45:13,48:14, 56:10
37:14, 48:24, 53:6, start Ii) - 80:13 82:10,82:12,82:13, 48:23,60:21.86:18. team 111- 33:7
63:15,74:25.92:11, started [91- 8:9. 82:16,63:9,63:11, 142:19, 145:19 Teargas 111- 88:17
92:13,92:14. 118:21 8:10,10:17,31:11. 84:16.84:22.92:22, sUbJect (21 -11:10, teargas (8) - 75:14,
Someone\21- 75:1, 33:17,98:13,104:4, 93:1,94:6,94:11, 55:8 121:13, 121:19,
76:23 120:17, 146:4 94:19,94:20, 95:14, subordinate (11- 122:15,122:20,
someUme \2) -18:2, state 18) -19:20, 95:23, 96:5, 96:7, 119:7 136:16
93:2 91:14,91:16.91:24, 98:12,98:17, 96:18, subsupervlsors (11 - tears 111- 123:25
Sometimes (11- 9:22 99:24,132:20 98:13,100:2, 100:6, 39:9 technlques\21-
sometimes (4) - State 1321 - 21 :11, 100:7, 100:12, suicide 11) -123:14 54:11,138:18
9:23,36:13,40:15, 21:16,32:16,57:25, 100:13.100:19, Suite (3) - 2:4, 2:8. ten 171- 29:10,
40:16 66:9,66:17, 67:19, 101:17, 104:15, 2:13 60:10,60:11,61:1,
somewhere (3J - 84:24,84:25,86:1, 111:18,114:6,123:3, superior 121 - 79:19, 134:19, 135:15
17:25,32:4,64:20 87:13,106:4,106:11, 124:19, 126:2, 126:4, 118:13,119:3 Tenn..... I1I-
Sorry (1) - 93:4 106:13,107:17, 127:4,128:22, supervise 111 - 31 :13 58:16
sorry (1:tl- 19:2, 108:25, 109:18, 130:22,133:10, supervised 111- 7:11 tenn 18) -15:6,15:7,
19:9,31:11,55:21, 109:20,109:21, 134:24,135:11, supervIsion (11 - 52:25,74:21,80:22,
70:13,93:4,94:16, 110:6,110:19,111:6, 136:6, 139:13, 143:2, 147:13 116:3
95:18, 95:22, 103:14, 123:12,123:18, 143:4 supervisor 113) - terminate 11) -10:12
120:13,126:1,132:1 125:10,130:1,130:6, Steven's (2) - 82:21, 16:25. 17:2. 17:4. terminated \21-
soundl1)-131:9 130:9,139:12, 82:22 17:11,17:15,17:17, 10:14,11:21
source 141- 65: 12, 139:19, 147:5, 147:23 sUcks 12) - 41 :16, 17:20,17:23,18:1, Terrie (3) - 5:7,
112:13,112:15. STATE 111- 1:3 141:17 19:1,19:2,19:3,39:6 76:24, 135:24
112:16 statement 11) - 115:4 Stili 121 - 102:5, suppIYI1,-126:19 TERRIE [5) - 1:16,
South (11-138:24 States 11) - 58:15 102:8 supposed (11 - 1:19,4:5,5:1,147:6
south 151 - 120:18, stay 11) - 128:5 stili (101- 17:6, 20:8, 104:16 territory 121 - 73:17,
120:22. 120:25, stayed [81- 6:13, 53:3, 62:3, 73:8, Supremel21- 58:15, 73:20
122:19, 134:20 9:14. 17:10. 17:22, 98:17, 101:10, 59:5 Terry (11- 59:8
southeast 11) - 19:2,51:1.118:24, 123:15, 136:21 surprised \21- test (11) - 8:23. 8:24,
135:13 122:6 stipulated (2) - 4:3. n:25, 122:12 9:3.9:6,9:8.14:11,
speaking I8J - 37:21, stenotype 111- 4:9 surrender 111 - 15:10, 15:17, 17:16.
75:23,82:6,134:11, 147:12 stipulations (11 - 122:14 19:25.20:3
134:13.135:10 steps (31 - 72:2, 1:21 suspect I5J - 85:7, tested 111- 55:12
speaks 111- 28:13 72:5,103:8 Stock (11 - 6:12 138:23,140:6, testify (3J - 5:3,
special (11- 6:19 StevolSJ - 10:21. stood (S) - n:8, 140:16.145:17 147:7,147:9
specialized (1)- 9:7 24:11, 25:25, n:20, n:9, 78:1, 79:15, suspected (11 - testimony 141-
specific (7J - 39: 18, 135:4 79:17 140:6 49:10.69:1,147:11,
75:10. 106:16, Steven (1241 - 24:2, stop (41- 38:6, SWAT (41- 32:8, 147:15
106:22, 108:2, 116:5, 24:3, 24:5, 24:6. 25:9, 91:21,92:3,92:4 32:19, 33:6. 88:2 teatlng (21- 13:1.
116:7 25:14.25:21.25:22, stopped 131- 37:25, sworn (2)- 5:2, 15:15
specifically (41 - 26:1.26:5,28:10. 70:23,86:6 147:7 teats (&J - 15:24,
22:7,84:2, 106:22, 26:12,26:14,26:19. store(2)-126:18, 20:4. 36:16, 55:14
116:3 26:21, 28:24, 27:9, 126:19
27:18.28:6,28:8, story 111- 106:3
T THE [8) - 35:1, 35:7,
speclflca 111 - 40:6 55:6, 82:21. 71 :2,
29:22, 29:25. 30:18, Street (B) - 2:8, 2:13, TAKENI1I-111:16
spend (31- 8:7.50:9, 95:18
30:23,33:13,33:17. 24:10,25:16.70:4, talkative 111 - 37:21
143:15 theft (11- 41 :22
34:5, 34:9. 34:14, 70:6,70:7,141:23 tall \21 - 79:11, 79: 13
spent (3J - 39:13, themselves 111 -
34:18,35:10,35:12, street 181 - 24:9, tape \2)- 130:16,
50:5,50:8 41:21
35:15.35:16,35:23, 25:15,26:4,33:15, 130:17
spoken (2J - 67:19, they've 11) - 126:16
68:14 39:13.39:21,39:25, 70:2,72:15,129:6. taped 121 - 130:18,
thinking (21- 45:18,
40:7.42:1,43:1,43:9, 144:14 130:21
stack 111 - 109:3 108:4
43:19,45:8,48:13, structure (11 - taught [41 - 7:21 ,
stand 111 - 91 :21 Thinking 111- 137:10
48:14,48:16,48:19. 119:10 13:5,13:7,54:14
standard [2J - third 111-109:23
48:20, 48:21. 48:25, studies 131- 61 :6, tax 111 - 119:25
109:22. 132:14 THIRTY (11-1:1
70:22,71:21.74:11, 61:8,81:10 Taylor Iii - 10:21
standardized 111- thirty 141- 8:14,

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 UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFTS2

14

32:22, 93:23, 145:9 64:14,91:22,92:3 twelfth (2) - 5:25, 6:1 Under [21- 47:24, Venable (3) - 1:21,

"-" thirty (2) - 8:16,

52:20
Thlrty-elght (1) -
Trahan 13) - 141:3,
141:25, 142:20
trained [2) - 37:4,
Twelve [1)- 39:1
twelve [1B)- 6:2,
24:3,29:11,29:12,
133:4
under (9) - 18:5,
48:1,115:7,121:25,
147:4,147:22
VENABLE [11 - 2:22
verified [1) - 86:13
versus [2)- 58:16,
52:20 37:17 30:8,30:9,35:15, 122:3,132:8,133:7,
THIRTY.fIRST(1) - Training [1)- 13:8 49:1, 49:3, 49:22, 138:12,147:12 59:6
1:1 training (40) - 6:20, 49:23,50:11,50:15, undergoI3)-15:12, vest [6\ - 88:2, 88:3,
thlrty-man 11)- 8:14 7:16,7:25,9:7,12:25, 52:18,52:23,59:20, 15:15,19:14 89:10,90:3,91:9,
THOMAS [2) - 1:8, 13:1, 13:2, 13:3, 13:5, 111:18, 113:16 undergraduate 11) - 101:6
2:3 13:13,14:14,17:13, twenty (5) - 58:7, 60:24 victim (2) -145:15
threat (1) - 100:21 17:17,19:14,20:1, 58:20,59:19,113:13, underneath [1)- videotapes [1) - 67:3
Three 171- 5:11, 8:6, 20:21,32:8,32:10, 136:19 119:11 vlew[1)- 20:18
8:12,31:1,31:20, 32:11,32:12,32:15, Twenty [1) - 32:23 undertake [1) - 17:16 VIncent [321- 52:15,
39:19,110:16 32:18,37:11,38:14, Twenty-five (1) - unexpected [2) - 52:21,53:10,53:19,
threel27J - 8:5, 38:15,38:19,51:3, 32:23 41:5,41:6 53:23, 66:20, 67:23,
17:10, 17:12,22:14, 53:16,53:20,54:2, TwlceI1)- 26:15 unlfonn [2) - 64:8, 68:8, 68:25,71:11,
24:23,30:20,31:4, 54:7, 54:9, 54:11, twlca [5) - 8:5, 8:6, 64:10 71:17,71:20,72:20,
39:4,43:14,49:7, 54:18,55:21,55:24, 27:8, 27:9, 95:23 unit 116\ - 9:23,10:9, 73:8, 73:25, 82:7,
49:11,49:15, 50:5, 57:24 two (33\- 7:9, 8:4, 36:1,63:1,64:8, 82:16,83:24,84:6,
50:21,53:7,78:23, tralnlng8[2)- 54:10, 9:22,17:3,39:4, 64:13, 64:22, 64:24, 84:7,84:8,84:14,
93:11, 93:22, 98:6, 55:23 42:17,49:7,49:11, 66:1,71:15,72:19, 84:16,88:9,114:13,
98:8,98:11,117:4, transcribed 11\ - 64:1, 64:4, 66:9, 73:9,73:11,73:24, 115:24,117:18,
119:22,127:1, 147:12 69:22. 73:18, 77:8, 88:6,91:1,99:19, 125:25, 128:2,
141:10,141:11, transcription 11\- 77:14, 77:15, 79:25, 103:23 130:13,132:1.135:10
141:16 147:14 85:5. 9S:17, 96:21, United (1\- 58:15 VINCENT [1) - 2:17
three-month 11) - trans'e.,.d 111- 18:1 97:1,97:7.97:8,97:9, units (8) - 9:23, Vlncent's(2)- 53:16,
17:12 transports (11- 97:11,97:12,97:13, 62:11,62:23,73:13, 118:24
three-year(1) - 22:14 31:15 109:2,117:3,117:19, 73:18 vlolenca[2)- 131 :7,

"-"
threw[2)-100:23, tree (2) -122:5, 134:21,141:9 university (2) - 140:7
122:21 122:6 Two (3J - 39:5, 85:6, 54:18,61:8 violent (1) - 140:16
today (121- 38:3, trial [1) - 4:20 93:11 unless (1) -120:2 vision (21-122:22,
40:21. 42:25, 43:8. triceps (1) -104:19 two-man (2)- 9:22. unlocked 111 - 103:2 123:1
47:21,48:11.86:5. Troop (41- 21:17, 17:3 up (33J - 8:20, 11 :21, v)sual 131- 74:16,
69:2,69:4, 106:3. 21:18,21:20,107:22 type (33) - 9:15, 32:3, 54:13, 58:24, 137:19,145:13
106:7,125:10 Trooper [1) - 107:19 10:23,11:10,13:12, 57:23.57:24,62:1, voice [2)- 133:24,
together (8) - 26:9, truck(BI- 71:12, 14:14.15:10.15:12, 62:19, 65:24, 67:14. 143:13
33:20,94:14,94:15. 71:13.71:20,73:7, 15:15, 17:16, 19:14, 69:18, 69:19. 69:20, VS(1)-1:10
94:17,94:18. 94:25, 74:3,99:20. 135:14, 19:25.26:19,34:12, 71 :22. 73:4, 77:9,
95:11 136:11 50:20.51:3,51:22. 77:16.78:1.100:14, W
tomorrow (1) - 69:6 true (2)- 47:6, 53:9,55:16.59:23. 100:19,100:22.
59:24.80:5.101:5, Walt (3J - 28:11.
tonel1l-143:13 147:14 101:18.102:18,
103:10.112:7. 116:2,143:25
took 1181- 8:22. 9:8. trunk(4\- 88:7. 103:7.104:3,104:13.
115:20, 122:13. 120:9, 125:13,
waived (2)- 4:12,
10:9,20:4.22:4,45:1. 88:20,90:1,90:16
126:25. 132:9. 4:15
63:9.71:17,73:1. truth It 51 - 46:22, 133:16,141:15,
74:2, 88:10. 96:20, 136:22.137:2. 144:12 wake 11) -144:12
47:4,47:7,47:8.
104:2,109:5. 109:15, 137:19, 139:3 urlne[21-16:17. walk (2) - 72:25.
47:10,47:17.47:21.
109:18, 125:12. types 121 - 55:18, 36:16 119:24
47:23, 48:2, 48:3,
139:23 48:5.147:8 60:5 user (11 - 44:6 walked (25) - 33:23,
tOPI11-141:7 try IS) -12:18. 41:25. typewrlt)ng 11) - 4:17 72:19,73:1.73:2,
USRY 111- 2:12
total (1) - 116:22 typical [2)- 47:3. 75:11.75:13.75:15.
93:12, 103:10. 103:13 utility [1) - 121 :12
towards(11-77:12 121:16 76:10,76:18.76:21,
trying 181- 53:12,
typing 111- 54:12 76:25, n:3. 77:20.
Towards (11- 77:13 57:19.71:20,98:16. V 100:14.102:1.102:3,
towel 11) -123:8 123:14. 128:2
vagueness 11) - 52:3 103:7.103:9.103:23,
town (8) - 24:5. turned (13) - 70:13, U value [3J - 37:9. 104:2.104:3.118:24,
41:24,62:12.70:17, 70:14.70:17,70:19, UL (11- 60:16 37:11.47:7 119:1,143:4
70:18.72:6.99:4. 77:3. 77:4, 78:22.
ULL [11 - 54:20 vehicle (4) - 73:5. walking [11-103:16
110:18 102:11.102:24.
ultlmate[11-147:18 74:1,99:16,99:20 walks [11- 120:2
Town [2)- 25:14. 103:2. 103:25.
ultimately (1) - 98:5 vehicles (2J - 99:18, wall [7J -76:5.76:7,
70:15 104:10. 109:20
uncooperative (11- 99:22 76:8.76:9.121:8.
traffic (41 - 64:12. Twelfth [11- 5:24
38:11

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 UNceRTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT52

15

year I&) - 6:4, 7:14,

-_............... 121:9,121:10
Wallace 111- 31 :24
west 181 - 69:25,
70:24, 71 :4, 120:10, 22:14,25:8,42:17
wants111- 57:16 120:14, 120:15, years 1431- 5:11, 6:2,
warden 1191- 30:18, 122:3,122:5 15:4, 24:3, 24:23,
30:19,30:25,31:3, western 121-71:23, 29:10,29:11,29:12,
31:7,31:9,31:11, 72:10 30:8,30:10,30:20,
31:13,31:18,31:22, whatsoever 121 - 31:1,31:4,31:5,
32:3,38:22,41:13, 83:1,135:2 31:18,31:20,32:22,
68:21,119:12, white "1 - 42:18 32:23,35:15,35:21,
119:15,119:16, Whltel11- 68:24 40:5,49:1,49:3,
132:18 wholeI91-15:6, 49:17,49:18,49:22,
warrant (81- 82:20, 39:3,81:20,88:14, 49:23,50:12,50:15,
82:22, 82:23, 82:25, 113:20,120:19, 52:18,52:23,54:21,
114:5,114:17, 120:20,121:6,147:8 56:2,58:7,58:20,
114:19,114:22 wife [21 - 34:4, 59:19,60:10,60:11,
warranted 111- 58:11 144:11 61:1,110:17,111:19,
warrants [2J - 54:12, wife's (31- 24:14, 136:20
54:13 24:15,144:15 yes) (S) - 23:22,
Warren (71- 32:14, Wlgglyltl-6:12 29:13,44:4,90:2,
32:22, 109:14, WILKES [8J - 2:7, 90:4
109:15,118:19, 2:8, 62:21, 71 :2, yesterday 111- 85:4
118:25,120:4 83:19, 143:25, 144:3, yourseH (21- 27:23,
weshlng 111- 75:19 144:17 112:4
watching I2J - 98:1, Wilkes 111 - 3:4
146:5 wlndow(S)-12O:18,
waved I2J -100:9, 122:8,122:10,
101:19 122:19, 122:21
ways 111- 76:21 wlndoWlI2I-122:9,
weapon (311- 28:6, 122:17
28:8, 65:6, 84:21, Wlnn (11- 6:10
91:4,98:19,98:21, wlryl11- 42:18
98:23,100:22, wlsel2J - 29:17,
111:20,111:22, 72:22
111:25,112:8, WITNESS I2J - 35: 1.
124:19, 128:4, 95:18
126:12, 128:17, wHness [8J - 4:11,
128:18, 128:20, 4:12,28:17,28:24,
129:8,129:9,140:9, 29:2,114:9,114:12,
14&0:15,140:17, 147:15
140:19,141:19, woman (3) - 25:20,
141:21,141:22, 27:20,44:18
142:8, 142:9 Woman 111- 44:19
weapons 1111- women 111-119:25
124:18, 126:23, women'sl11- 13:3
128:21,128:22, won 11) - 53:7
129:19, 129:23, wonderfng 111 -
130:3, 130:5, 130:8, 132:12
130:11,141:12 words [41 - 62:8,
week 141- 8:5, 8:6, 117:21, 135:1~, 143:3
66:9,68:14 worker 121 - 43:6,
Weeks 111- 50:2 48:19
WEEKS 111- 2:12 works [11 - 33:25
weeks (S) - 8:2, 8:3, wound [11-104:21
66:9, 85:5, 85:6 wroteI11-107:13
welfare [1) - 43:5
Welsh (S) - 70:11, y
70:12,110:18,
110:23,113:15 yard 141- 84:15,
West (3)- 2:4, 2:8, 99:20,99:21,122:6
120:11 yardstick [11- 48:8

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