SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

I absolutely LOVED Altered Carbon and was more than stoked when a friend loaned me Broken Angels - but almost 2 weeks and only 200 pages in... I just CAN NOT get interested in this book. It seems directionless and Novaks' motivations are a total mystery to me. Anyone have words of encouragement to persevere? Worth the effort or was AC a lone hit in a weak series?

Altered Carbon is my all time favorite book.

Broken Angels was mediocre and Woken Furies was awful.

His Fantasy, The Steel Remains, is fantastic (followed by The Cold Commands). Everything else he wrote was tripe.

Ugh - that's disappointing

I dunno, I enjoyed the other books, although they're certainly not up to the same standard as Altered Carbon. I think he deliberately moves away from the SF-noir thing to a more space opera setting (which is hinted at in AC; I get the impression Earth is a bit of a backwater in the scheme of things, for all the presence of the ultra-rich). There are some really nice bits in the other books - I do like the way he deals with the 'soul markets' and the way the 'dead' are treated as a commodity (in Broken Angels I think), and some other bits. I've not got around to his fantasies, although I've heard good things.

(and, sorry - my pedantic gland won't let me not say this) it's Kovacs, which I always think is a bit of a nod to Rorschach in Watchmen.

Paul 'Pezski' wrote: "I dunno, I enjoyed the other books, although they're certainly not up to the same standard as Altered Carbon. I think he deliberately moves away from the SF-noir thing to a more space opera setting..."

Lol yeah noticed my error on that last night. Not sure where my brain was during that original post.

(view spoiler)[Cruickshank was just eviscerated and Wardani has the gate open now so I think things are picking up enough to get me through this. I hate quitting on a book so I'll give it every effort. (hide spoiler)]

That's the problem with opinions. I've seen other posts preferring BA and WF. I don't know why I didn't feel the same.

So FWIW, I really like The Steel Remains about as much as AC. Others may disagree.

Altered Carbon is one of my favorite SF books ever. Broken Angels and Woken Furies are not as good as AC, but I also enjoyed them a lot, preferring WF over BA, actually. I remember I had a similar slow start with BA after reading AC, with expectations rising very very high, but somewhere along the way I got hooked and couldn't put the book down. I did not have such problems with Woken Furies - I devoured it. Takeshi Kovac's series is still one of my favorites in SF. Thus, my advice - don't put it aside yet ... or check Richard Morgan's Fantasy.
When Morgan took an unexpected turn towards Fantasy I was very skeptical, I am not a big fan of Fantasy, though of course I've read a proper share of books in this genre. But The Steel Remains just blew me off, while the Cold Commands, though still very strong, suffered a bit from being a middle (?) book in the trilogy. I can't wait for the third installment.
BTW. Some fans of Morgan's hard SF claim (view spoiler)[that the Fantasy series actually takes place in a Takeshi Kovacs universe, but after the world (Earth?) has fallen as a result of some unexplained or already forgotten apocalypse / encounter with alien races (hide spoiler)]

I loved Altered Carbon and liked both Broken Angels and Woken Furies. I also liked Black Man (Thirteen in the US) and The Steel Remains but for me, I think I prefer Morgan's sci-fi.

... when I wrote that that the Steel Remains "just blew me off" I meant "just blew me away" of course :0)

BTW - I finished it. And I think I'm just going to strike Woken Furies off of my 'To Read' list. I LOVED Altered Carbon but I think it's fair to say that my love for AC was easily outweighed by my enormous dislike and overwhelming boredom with BA.

If you like The Steel Remains & Cold Commands, try the Joe Abercrombie books as well.

Although many others didn't agree, I liked The Unincorporated Man quadrology.

Zac wrote: "I absolutely LOVED Altered Carbon and was more than stoked when a friend loaned me Broken Angels - but almost 2 weeks and only 200 pages in... I just CAN NOT get interested in this book. It seems d..."

I've read all three books multiple times, and while Altered Carbon is my favorite of the three, I like the fact that the stories in both Broken Angels and Woken Furies are different enough and not really more of the same. He's placed Kovacs in a different situation in each book, and I think that fits the character and his training as an Envoy. But, it's all a matter of taste, right?

I have yet to read 13 or Market Forces, but they are on my to-read list and in stock at the library. The Steel Remains and The Cold Commands are great, though I agree with Mario that it does suffer a bit from being the middle book. It took me a little bit to warm up to it but eventually I couldn't put it down.

John wrote: "Zac wrote: "I absolutely LOVED Altered Carbon and was more than stoked when a friend loaned me Broken Angels - but almost 2 weeks and only 200 pages in... I just CAN NOT get interested in this book..."

There's no doubt that Kovacs is a bad ass. And I'd agree that retelling more Earth based noir would be redundant and it's cool to get him in different situations and environments but I just didn't think the quality of story telling was up to snuff with AC; the plot was unfocused, motivations unclear or absent, and frankly - for a merciless assassin, a former Envoy - a thing practically of mythology due to it's bad-assed mystery, training, and skills - ...dude sure did an awful lot of whining / moping in BA and pining for a random unimpressive female lead.

Jed wrote: "If you like The Steel Remains & Cold Commands, try the Joe Abercrombie books as well."

Yeah, Abercrombie is waiting for his turn :) He's near the top of my to-read SF/fantasy list.

J.A. wrote: God, I wish that man would write another Kovacs novel...but no chance of that, I don't think. "

No chance for now, definitely, but .... after the last instalment in his fantasy trilogy, I wish Richard Morgan wrote a book in which Kovacs universe merged somehow with RM's fantasy world :) like Iain M. Banks Culture vs. less developed civilizations theme. This could be hell of a read :)

J.A. wrote: God, I wish that man would write another Kovacs novel...but no chance of that, I don't think. "

No chance for now, definitely, but .... after the last instalment in his fantasy trilogy, I wish Richard Morgan wrote a book in which Kovacs universe merged somehow with RM's fantasy world :) like Iain M. Banks Culture vs. less developed civilizations theme. This could be hell of a read :)

Zac wrote: "There's no doubt that Kovacs is a bad ass. And I'd agree that retelling more Earth based noir would be redundant and it's cool to get him in different situations and environments but I just didn't think the quality of story telling was up to snuff with AC; the plot was unfocused, motivations unclear or absent, and frankly - for a merciless assassin, a former Envoy - a thing practically of mythology due to it's bad-assed mystery, training, and skills - ...dude sure did an awful lot of whining / moping in BA and pining for a random unimpressive female lead."

I don't really agree with a lot of that, but it's certainly a matter of personal preference, so it's all good :-) I will say that if I were to put them in best to worst order BA would be on the bottom of the trilogy. I do suggest reading WF, it's a different book from the rest for sure and perhaps you might enjoy it more than BA.

J.A. wrote: "Well, I have to agree with that, the plot in AC was....just indescribable. It was phenomenal, all the twists and stuff. So yes, as far as plot goes, AC was definitely the better book. But as far as character development goes, I choose WF myself.
"

Good points there. Also, I like your review of BA, summed up nicely.

I really hope Richard Morgan returns to this series again if not featuring Kovachs then perhaps create a new character within this universe. Fingers crossed.

I've got to say that I loved all three. It is difficult to follow up a book like Altered Carbon since Morgan had set the bar so very high for himself. Sure, the others take a slightly different path, but the premise of Woken Furies was a fantastic one, given the groundwork put in with the previous two novels; and well executed, I thought.