Talk:Mad Men/Archives/2012/05

shortening lists of cast & writers at Infobox

I've suggested a condensed list in my recent edit. Seemed like the lists were way too long for what is meant to be a summary box. I've edited each down to a more manageable/readable number of the top 6, with "and more" link to respective lists. The shortened cast list now corresponds to the lead characters as listed in the body text. -anonAlph 72.151.121.170 (talk) 19:57, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Infobox cast

There appears to be some minor confusion over what cast members we should present in the infobox. For the most part, the usual action for an infobox is to list a good amount of cast and then to put "and others", which would link to the cast section. However, I also think only listing those six cast members seems a bit extreme. If anything, I find the distinction between 'lead characters' and 'supporting characters' in the regular cast section to be pretty arbitrary. I find the correct number of regulars to be perfectly readable. Listing Mad Men's full cast would actually be shorter than many other television articles (24's infobox lists 16 cast members, Deadwood lists 14, The Wire lists 36, Lost lists 28, Boardwalk Empire lists 17.) Also, on closer inspection, El Duderino recently changed the "The Sopranos" infobox to only five cast members, when that series carries a main cast of atleast 8,000. (Slight exaggeration.)Penny Lane's America (talk) 07:12, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Readers can find full cast information in the body text. An infobox is meant to be a summary and as such should include only a partial list. The tenuous fact that other articles have overly long cast lists in their infoboxes does not make for a de facto style guide. And the Sopranos list is a compromise from talk page discussion -- some editors wanted none listed there with only a link to the full list. El duderino (talk) 07:30, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Honestly, I see where you're coming from. I understand going that way when you have such an expanded main cast, but listing the full main cast for Mad Men isn't exactly causing an eyesore. If the cast was only comprised of three cast members, would we only include two so as to satisfy your "summary should include only a partial list" idea? Penny Lane's America (talk) 10:58, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Nevertheless, a double-check of wikipedia's stance says "If the cast list gets too large you might consider linking to a section of the article instead". (This is used for a series like 'Saturday Night Live'. 24 also lists 16 of the major cast members, then a quick link to a place in the article where you can see the rest of the cast members.) We are also supposed to represent all eras of the show, so I wouldn't be comfortable with dropping old cast members like Siff or Batt.Penny Lane's America (talk) 11:06, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

In terms of readability and summary style, I think we should aim higher than "not exactly causing an eyesore" but apparently I'm in the minority of opinion. I was referring to summarizing this article's list -- besides, I'm not aware of many if any successful shows with 3 cast members so that seems like a red herring. And the guideline you quote is more for shows with rotating principals like SNL. There really is no clear policy about the issue so it becomes a matter of editorial consensus and interpretation. Hopefully collaboration too, hence the compromises. Mad Men's main characters have been there from the start. Are you really saying that Siff and Batt are main characters? Don't get me wrong, they enrich the storytelling and truly support the main cast, but we should draw a line. However, I try to be a realist here, I understand that particular fans will continue to add their favorite actors to the list so I'm not going to belabor the point. For the record, though, this is not a matter of confusion as you originally said, it's a disagreement. El duderino (talk) 21:52, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

It'd be different if there were like 30+ actors listed, but there's simply just 14. It's not really up to us to decide who should be listed or not, it's a matter of how the actors are credited. It's understandable who are the main and who are the supporting characters on the show, but the starring list is for actors that receive star billing—and that's what the current list is. There's no reason to remove anyone from the list. Drovethrughosts (talk) 00:53, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

So, User:Drovet.. added an actor (Christopher Stanley) to the infobox list despite that actor not being notable enough to have his own article. I don't think that's appropriate for the infobox. It's enough that he is listed among the supporting actors in body text. So I removed his name from infbox. Rather than discuss it further here, he chose to revert me. I know WP:BRD is 'only a guideline' but it's a pretty good one among established editors. I've removed the actor's name again because, in my opinion, it doesn't matter if the actor is a regular now. I would like to hear from other editors about this. El duderino (talk) 05:18, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

The real solution is to start an article for Mr. Stanley. He's obviously notable enough to the show due to being a main cast member. Penny Lane's America (talk) 05:46, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

How many season 5 episodes?

In Mad Men (season 5) the statement "It is scheduled to consist of thirteen episodes, with the premiere being a two-hour double episode." and the two hour premiers is given the number "1/2". So what does this mean? 13 separate episodes, the first one being 2 hours? So actually 12 separate episodes? Or 13 episodes, the first one being 2 hours? The cited source does not make this clear. Barsoomian (talk) 18:14, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

There's 13, just like the all the previous seasons. "A Little Kiss" aired as a two-hour premiere, and is counted as the first two episodes of the 13 episode season. Drovethrughosts (talk) 18:23, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

So, you mean there are actually 12 separate episodes? What source do you have for that? Barsoomian (talk) 02:02, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Matthew Weiner says that "A Little Kiss" is really one big episode (see this interview ---> http://collider.com/matthew-weiner-mad-men-season-five-interview/138662/), but its still counted as two episodes per the production number. (On Amazon, you can buy them as "Part 1" and "Part 2". http://www.amazon.com/A-Little-Kiss-Part-2/dp/B007ORU2BY) and the AMC website lists it as "Episode 1-2" (http://www.amctv.com/shows/mad-men/episodes/season-5/a-little-kiss). Basically, Season 5 was renewed for 13 episodes, but because of its longer running time, A Little Kiss counts as the first two episodes. (http://www.deadline.com/2011/03/matt-weiner-closes-deal-for-mad-men-series-renewed-for-2-more-seasons/)Penny Lane's America (talk) 03:14, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Okay, well I'll clarify that at the article. It's inane to say one continuous episode is actually two, but it'd probably end up in edit war if I made the numbering sensible. Note that the AMC link does wacky things: first it shows "Episode 1: A Little Kiss", then it refreshes to "Episode 1-2: A Little Kiss". Barsoomian (talk) 03:22, 23 April 2012 (UTC)