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Talk:Scientology: Difference between revisions

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combine multiple {{Backwards copy}} templates to save space
Misuse of maintenance templates: I don't plan to do this for all comments or following ones, but perhaps this helps to illustrate the idea of focusing on content and avoiding meta discussion on article talk pages.
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:Sounds like something that at most needs removal of the templates, not a big nasty epistle. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> ([[User talk:North8000#top|talk]]) 15:13, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
::I wrote a grand total of eighty-five words [the rest is copypasta]. If you perceive eighty-five words to be a "{{tq|big epistle}}", I pity those receiving your thank-you notes. Which text do you perceive to be "{{tq|nasty}}" in "Please do not misuse maintenance templates on the article. Re the inline "failed verification" template, as described in its documentation... The article text you tagged was...and...The sources, with page numbers, state...If you had checked the sources on the pages indicated, a step which only if you had done should you use the template, you would have seen the above which verifies what is in the article text. Remember to actually look at reliable sources before adding templates making claims about their content." ? <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">[[User:Cambial Yellowing|<i style="color:#999900">Cambial </i>]]— [[User talk:Cambial Yellowing|<b style="color:#218000">foliar❧</b>]]</span> 15:49, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
:::I think it's time for you to mellow out. That would be much more pleasant for everybody, including you. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> ([[User talk:North8000#top|talk]]) 17:19, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
::::Noted. [[Om]]. Wow I feel relaxed now. I think it’s time for you to refrain from making accusations of nasty comments that you’re unable to substantiate. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">[[User:Cambial Yellowing|<i style="color:#999900">Cambial </i>]]— [[User talk:Cambial Yellowing|<b style="color:#218000">foliar❧</b>]]</span> 17:43, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
:::::Doesn't sound like you did. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> ([[User talk:North8000#top|talk]]) 18:38, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
: {{reply|Cambial Yellowing}} Sorry, I've been rather busy. I'd be delighted to answer your question in detail when I get a chance to sit down with it. Responding to what amounts to a [[gish gallop]] can be tedious and is why you only get one or two things answered at a time. My short answer is: yes... I checked the sources you cited... the older ones ''and'' the newer ones you added like a REFBOMB. <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">[[User:Grorp|<span style="color:#6a0dad"> &nbsp;&nbsp;▶ I am Grorp ◀ </span>]]</span> 17:32, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
::It’s a shame you perceive it be “{{tq|like a REFBOMB}}”. It isn’t a “refbomb”, by the definition used on this website. I didn’t ask you a question. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">[[User:Cambial Yellowing|<i style="color:#999900">Cambial </i>]]— [[User talk:Cambial Yellowing|<b style="color:#218000">foliar❧</b>]]</span> 17:39, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
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:Similarly Kent (Routledge, 1996): {{bq| Hubbard's followers across the United States were being arrested for '''practicing medicine without licenses'''...Hubbard proclaimed in 1950 that, with the proper application of the techniques he outlined, "arthritis vanishes, myopia gets better, heart illness decreases, asthma disappears, stomachs function properly, and the whole catalogue of ills goes away and stays away". Because of claims such as these (to which Scientology still adheres), the New Jersey State Board of Medical Examiners '''accused the ''Hubbard'' Dianetic Research Foundation, Inc. [he was listed as its director] of "operating a school for the treatment of disease without a license"''' in January, 1951, which contributed to the organisation's departure from Elizabeth, New Jersey, in April—'''prior to its pending trial '''in May. b). In late March, 1953, two Dianetics and Scientology practitioners were arrested, along with the confiscation of an e-meter, as part of an investigation into "running an unlicensed school and '''practicing medicine without licenses" '''in late 1953 or early 1954, a Glendale, California, Dianeticist or Scientologist apparently spent ten days in jail for '''"practicising medicine without a license"'''}}
:If you want to make the argument that this scholarly work by a subject-matter expert published by one of the leading academic publishers in the United States, '''and''' this journal article by another subject-matter expert published by a leading international academic publisher, are both incorrect, by all means make your case centrally. For now, academic publishing is considered the [[Wp:SOURCETYPES|best kind of source]] available, so we can rely on it for statements of fact. Using inappropriate maintenance templates is not a way to address your issue with the sources. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">[[User:Cambial Yellowing|<i style="color:#999900">Cambial </i>]]— [[User talk:Cambial Yellowing|<b style="color:#218000">foliar❧</b>]]</span> 15:07, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
:: {{reply|Cambial Yellowing}} You ignored the main point entirely:{{rpa}} '''None of your scholarly sources use the term "prosecuted" and none accuse(d) Hubbard directly.''' Your decision to cherry-pick a few phrases from out of a few sources, remove them from the context of their source, exaggerate the language ([[WP:OR]]), knit them together into the [[WP:SYNTH]] that you did, and repeat the concepts three times in the article, shows your penchant for [[WP:POVPUSH|POV pushing]] on this topic. Focusing on use of "failed verification" template and your interpretation of when it should be used is a red herring. Suggesting a publisher would fact check every minute sentence and turn of phrase in a scholarly work they publish is a fantasy. That you defend your actions with such vehemence, refuse to get the point, and waste enormous amounts of other editors' time on this (and similar, earlier debates) shows either a lack of willingness or an inability to neutrally edit in this topic.{{rpa}} <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">[[User:Grorp|<span style="color:#6a0dad"> &nbsp;&nbsp;▶ I am Grorp ◀ </span>]]</span> 16:16, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
:::You need to stop wasting editor’s time with inappropriate templates and fabricated claims.{{rpa}} You said {{tq| None but unreliable source Aberree suggest "practicing medicine without a license"}}. This is categorically untrue, as anyone who read the sources cited would be aware{{rpa}}. You claim there was no prosecution, despite Kent pointing out there was an “impending trial”. Hubbard set up the Hubbard Dianetic Research Foundation – as is recorded in multiple reliable sources, including but not limited to those already cited – the same organisation that Kent indicates was facing an impending trial; thus it’s fair to describe it as his organization. Your increasing desperation to deflect from the obviously false claims you made about what the sources say, and claims about what you said about the sources, merits little response.{{rpa}} If you would like to change the words in the Elizabeth case from “practicing medicine without a license” to "operating a school for the treatment of disease without a license” because you think it’s an insufficiently exact synonymous phrase that results in a libel against a man dead for 38 years, be bold and change it. I’ll not object, even if I hold the distinction to be nil. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">[[User:Cambial Yellowing|<i style="color:#999900">Cambial </i>]]— [[User talk:Cambial Yellowing|<b style="color:#218000">foliar❧</b>]]</span> 17:17, 6 January 2024 (UTC)