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Re: ATM: Acupuncture

1

I'm pretty sure the research says it's a placebo. But I do know people who claim it's worked for them.

I'd see if your employer has anyone who can look at your workspace for ergonomic issues before I'd get acupuncture.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:00 PM
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Does it help for continuing to gnaw upon our limbs?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:01 PM
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Squirrel shit is probably a good placebo. If you're willing enough to eat it, you're probably really believing in it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:03 PM
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I was referred for acupuncture once, for precisely nebulous aches and pains, although in my lower leg. My experience was that during the treatment and for a couple of hours afterwards the pain was alleviated to some extent, but that in the course of the day it returned just the same. After a while I decided it must be mostly placebo effect, and eventually my treatment course ended, leaving me much as I started.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:04 PM
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(Too lazy to google (remember that because I'm sure I'll use it again)) Doesn't it work with dogs?

Anyway, my roommate used to get it and would come home acting like she had just smoked a bunch of weed. They also put her on pills 8 times a day although hers were chicken blood. I was like 'You're a vegetarian and you might need iron, sure. But maybe like try a better tasting/sourced version of meat?' Then we had to talk about the likelihood there was yeast living in her stomach. In summary, a land of contrasts.


Posted by: hydrobatidae | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:07 PM
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Even if it does work with dogs, I recommend using the needles because it's cruel to heat the dog enough that it's sterile.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:08 PM
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7

If I admitted the full story, no one would offer me any help or sympathy, but here goes: I haven't gone to a doctor over this because I don't currently have a PCP and the idea of 1) finding one, 2) setting up a first appointment to get the referral and then 3) getting the real appointment, all makes the horizon seem so far away that I might as well not bother. So everything I've tried has been things I can do on short notice - try sleeping differently! Go to a walk-in sports clinic and a walk-in med clinic. Try only using my cell phone with my left hand. Etc.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:09 PM
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Hearing 7 I'll mention that the physical therapist I go to is good at working with back/neck pain and will do skype sessions. If you want, e-mail me and I can put you in contact with them.

It would be silly to do a skype therapy appointment if you had somebody that you worked with locally but, since you don't, it might be simple enough to fall into the "things you can do on short notice" category.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:12 PM
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8: Sounds great!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:16 PM
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7: I was expecting something much more ridiculous since it was supposed to be somehow worse then squirrel-shit pills.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:18 PM
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Go see a real doctor and get some PT. Also, if you're toting the kids around, be mindful of what arm you use to lift them , because it's probably the left arm (pain on the right?) and the kids are basically offset loads that you lift a zillion times a day.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:23 PM
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12

Wait, really? Carrying the kids on my left side could do this to my right side?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:27 PM
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That was not sarcastic. I'd been assuming that I should do as much as possible on my left side.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:27 PM
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I don't see why they can't take the best of Western medicine and Chinese medicine to make time-released flying squirrel shit pills.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:30 PM
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I have had acupuncture work for migraine, local pain, and for allergies. The allergy treatment lasts a few hours, so it just isn't worth it (although my insurance covers it). Thing is, the pain goes away during the session. So I know right off if it is working.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:30 PM
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Make time-released flying squirrels shit pills.

Just don't stand under them.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:31 PM
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17

I see what you did with that extra "s".


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:35 PM
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Facebook feed today featured a heartfelt video report on the Standing Rock protesters which finished with an appeal for funds to provide them with much needed medical support, to wit, a field acupuncture clinic. I declined to donate.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:39 PM
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We were so unenlightened 15 years ago, making women writhe on the floor of the bathroom. Now most facilities have dedicated write on the floor rooms.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:39 PM
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Mrs. E has had very good experiences with acupuncture. I went to her acupuncturist once when I was having recurring pain in my wrist. He cleared it up with one treatment, and the pain has not returned.

It seems the key is finding an acupuncturist who is not a snake oil squirrel shit salesman, and I gather that in the U.S. a high percentage of them are.


Posted by: My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:39 PM
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21

Fuck you autocorrect.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:40 PM
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22

I've never wondered about it before, but how come I never notice squirrel shit? Do they bury it?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:49 PM
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trogopterus xanthipes

Nice one, taxonomists.


Posted by: Todd | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:56 PM
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They all want to give you squirrel shit, or some variant thereof. It's not a scam, exactly, it's part of the paradigm.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 12:56 PM
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I've never wondered about it before, but how come I never notice squirrel shit? Do they bury it?

I'm about to find out: There's one trapped in our powder room right now! No idea how it got in: no windows open, no doors left ajar, afaik no exterior openings to that room at all*. All I know is that AB was working in the adjacent room, her a sound, and there it was. Animal Control said not to try to catch it--OK!

Meanwhile, I can hear its stressed-out whining from the 2nd floor. Ugh.

*it is possible to get into the adjacent hallway from the basement if you're very small, and the basement is not, alas, rodent-proof (not that we've ever had a squirrel that we know of), so that seems likely.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:04 PM
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26

Good luck and be sure to report back.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:06 PM
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Are you just going to open the window and see if it won't run out?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:07 PM
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My aunt and uncle had a squirrel get into their house through the chimney, like a small Santa Claus. If Santa Claus caused thousands of dollars of damage by gnawing on the woodwork in a futile attempt to get back outside.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:10 PM
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With his sad, futile Santa claws.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:12 PM
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We used to get flying squirrels in our house when I was a kid. We caught them in a hav-a-hart trap, spray painted their tails bright orange to see if the same one was coming back repeatedly, and drove it 30 miles away to let it go.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:13 PM
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Dirtbag biology.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:14 PM
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I've never wondered about it before, but how come I never notice squirrel shit? Do they bury it?

I trained my squirrels to poop into a sandbox in my backyard, and now I'm making so much money selling squirrel shit to acupuncturists that I was able to quit my day job.

Buy my pamphlet - Harvesting squirrel shit the easy way -- and soon you too will be rolling in squirrel shit (and cash!)


Posted by: peep marketing scheme #589 | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:15 PM
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25: I may have mentioned before my sister-in-law getting highly stressed out in a similar situation except that the mysterious scratching and footsteps in the attic turned out to be from a pine marten (and her four kittens).

Pine martens are lovely animals and, for future reference, can be enticed with peanut butter.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:15 PM
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"After capture, we recorded the seals vital statistics for science. So that we can track the animal in the future, we drew a dick on his forehead with a Sharpie."


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:16 PM
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I didn't realize that a pine marten wasn't a bird.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:17 PM
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I have acupuncturist friends and used to let them work on me for migraines because it helped but then I had to stop because they'd say things like "you have too much damp heat, you should eat an egg," and I wanted to maintain enough respect for them to stay friends. Whatever, I probably should have just eaten an egg. Have you tried magnesium?


Posted by: Clytie | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:18 PM
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It does sound like it ought to be. But no, it's a sort of super-glamorous arboreal stoat.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:19 PM
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I've never tried magnesium, but I've eaten eggs. They're pretty good.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:19 PM
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27: windowless room.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:19 PM
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40

Maybe just put out a dish of antifreeze then.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:20 PM
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Also, it is an ecological benefit, because it eats squirrels (but not the British squirrels).

(Only the highly invasive grey squirrels, which are larger and heavier and unable to evade it.)


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:21 PM
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JRoth, get a pine marten a) it would deal with the squirrel b) it would add yet more glamour to your life.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:22 PM
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43

We have non-invasive grey squirrels.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:23 PM
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We have an invasive plant called "garlic mustard." Perky young people in the employ of local parks will direct you in how to find it and pull it up. You could also eat it if you really wanted.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:25 PM
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45

I don't even see squirrel color.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:25 PM
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46

Acupuncture and sham needle treatment (ie sticking the needles in somewhere but not necessarily on one of the 365 traditional points on the 12 traditional meridians) both have an effect compared to no treatment for a bunch of conditions ( here's one). Maybe placebo effect, maybe some as yet poorly understood neural thing-- lots of debate about what an appropriate control is, since the patient can detect treatment vs nothing.

Finding a good practitioner matters. My mom swears by treatment for her knees, my aunt in rural CZ for her back. I had a related but slightly different treatment (dry needling, needles only inserted briefly AND a different licensing authority) while I got PT for a neck injury and had muscles that were completely locked up; who knows, but I'm pretty sure the needles activated something the nerves nearby for me, but I didn't have a double-blind injury to compare other treatment. Maybe look around for a PT that does dry needling if your local acupuncturist community is unsatisfactory?


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:25 PM
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47

Magnesium works for getting rid of squirrels too.


Posted by: Clytie | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:31 PM
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48

Alright, squirrel extracted. Guy went in there with a clamp on a stick, but the squirrel was too small, so he ended up using our hand towel to grab it. The answer on the poop front appears to be that their turds are tiny: this was a small one, but all we found was one, mouse-scale turd. Even if adult squirrels have 2X size turds, you'd never notice them in nature.

Also, he was in there for close to an hour, and left just the one true (we saw), which suggests that maybe they aren't as productive as mice, which just shit constantly.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:32 PM
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Put the squirrel back and give it some raisins to be sure.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:33 PM
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I do like the pine marten idea.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:36 PM
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maybe they aren't as productive as mice, which just shit constantly.

This sounds strange to me because I think acorns have more fiber than cheese does.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 1:48 PM
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46: Meta-studies dispute that certainty. See, for example: http://www.dcscience.net/2013/05/30/acupuncture-is-a-theatrical-placebo-the-end-of-a-myth/

Note that placebo effects are particularly likely when the effect being measured are small movements on a subjective pain scale. If I tell you that my pain went from being a 9 on a scale of 0 to 10 to being a 2, something probably happened (even if it's only pain being dulled with the process of time). If I tell you it went from a 7 to a 6, it's not clear that I'm even being consistent in how I classify a particular sensation. Combine that with the desire to believe that the nice researcher working with you did something that was going to be helpful, and its not clear that small movements in the pain scale mean anything much at all.


Posted by: Dave W. | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 2:02 PM
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I did some work for a pharma company working on a TCM medicine for uterine cramps, and yeah, the traditional formulation uses the squirrel shit. The formulation they were working on didn't use it, and they were doing clinical trials and complicated material assays to actually get their drug licensed as a prescription medicine.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 2:07 PM
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The next time I'm talking to a somebody working in pharma and they mention 'animal models', I'm going to assume they mean squirrel shit.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 2:08 PM
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52: probably just using the wrong pain scale. http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/boyfriend-doesnt-have-ebola-probably.html?m=1


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 2:14 PM
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12: Totally serious. If you're carrying the kids on your left, you're going to be subtly adjusting your posture to support that. If that ends up creating a strength imbalance, it's easy for you to tweak your neck/shoulder on the opposite side. Sort of like how having a weak core can lead to back pain.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 3:00 PM
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Yeah, makes sense. And not just the carrying but the picking them up - like always carrying a heavy bag on one shoulder.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 3:06 PM
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Picking them up is usually two handed and central, then you swing them over to one hip.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 3:09 PM
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Jeez, you have a bunch of them, you must be able to use that to your benefit and figure out some way to cantilever them all in an optimally balanced position.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 3:12 PM
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I don't have personal experience hauling kids around, but Cala is making a lot of sense.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 3:15 PM
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58: sure, but it's still a strain...


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 3:23 PM
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I found community acupuncture to be helpful for both me and Tim for aches and other non-specific things like anxiety. they don't push herb stuff, and it's cheap.

Pocacoop.com says that there are clinics in Austin and SAN Marcos.



Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 4:45 PM
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Bizarre uterine cramps from sprinting can be a sign of ovarian cysts.


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 4:54 PM
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My ovaries were thoroughly sliced and diced when they were removed and they were pristine.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 5:02 PM
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I don't have acupuncture experience but I can share that I'm in a sleeker ankle brace with a foot placement wedge IN A SHOE and get to start physical therapy ASAP.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 5:05 PM
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If you put a needle in the shoe, it could be.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-29-16 5:27 PM
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Dry needling by physiotherapists has worked for me - usually it's in semi-substitution for massage and they are basing it on trigger points in particular muscles/fascia.

The problem still builds up again though. Cala's advice might be useful to me too as all my shoulder issues are on the left and I primarily carry everything on the right.


Posted by: emir | Link to this comment | 11-30-16 4:38 AM
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29 is one for the hall of fame.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 11-30-16 4:39 AM
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There is no better feeling than when someone praises a comment, and you scroll back to read it, and discover it's your own work.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-30-16 9:05 AM
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Heebie! It turns out that your crack about Trump being the "Dumbass Whisperer" was literally the only piece of election analysis that was worth a damn.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11-30-16 9:26 AM
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69 is presumably the reason Moby is such a ray of sunshine.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 11-30-16 9:38 AM
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